GAZA'S KILLING SCHOOL

[drdon326]

Children as young as 10 are being recruited to fight for the Palestinian cause.


Sky News has gained access to a young people's camp in Gaza, where the only lesson taught is how to kill Israelis. Sky's Middle East Correspondent Emma Hurd said the camp, at an undisclosed location, had been set up to drill children in the ways of war.

The recruits, some of whom are dwarfed by their AK-47 assault rifles, are taught how to carry out ambushes.

snip

Hurd witnessed one training session in which a militant, dressed as a Jewish settler complete with yarmulke skull cap, was ambushed in his car.Gunmen pulled the "settler" from his vehicle and Hurd was told if this had been real he would have been killed.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13154917,00.html
.................................................................

disgusting child abuse. and save the shit about the source.
its totally consistent with other reports.

better yet...deal with it.

[Forkboy]

1. Pretty sad shit

[lefty_mcduff]

2. It truly is unfortunate that the ME situation

creates the hatred, dispair and ignorance that drives this heartrending stuff.

It is, however, a symptom, rather than a cause.

[drdon326]

3. Horsespit.

What kind of parents send their kids to learn murder??

Funny how no human rights committes give a shit....let alone
the the pa/plo.

No f**king wonder kids are being used as suicide bombers.

Someone tell me again how this is NOT a dysfunctional society.

sickening.

[bigbillhaywood]

5. What about the Israeli commando summer camps for kids?

I know an American Jew who's family sent him to one when he was 12. Maybe they don't exist anymore. If so, please enlighten me.

[drdon326]

6. Never heard of any of the sort.

if you can link an israeli summer camp that teaches kids
how to ambush the enemy and kill innocent civilians, do it.

otherwise its a cheap shot.

[drdon326]

8. BTW....Compare the Palestinian Murder Camp with this

http://www.campkimama.org/parents/Pages/about.asp

[bigbillhaywood]

9. It's not a cheap shot. I shared the personal experience of a friend.

I even said they may not exist anymore. My buddy told me they did teach the kids small squad military tactics-- I assume ambushing the enemy was part of that (ambushes were one of the first things they tought us in the Army).

As far as killing civilians. Whether or not an armed invader (referred to on this board as a "settler") is a "civilian" or not is up for debate. In fact, whether settlers are legitimate targets or not has been debated many times here. My view is if they are adults, it is likely they are legitimate targets (but I'm still unsure). If they are armed they definitely are. Unarmed children are illegitimate targets. And please don't cite pregnant women, unless you are prepared to argue that the fetus is a person with a right to exist, or that adult women who actively and willingly invade someone else's territory should be given more chivalrous treatment than men. Either argument would make you a "pro-lifer" or a male chauvinist.

[drdon326]

11. Unbelieveable....

you cant provide any link to your claim...i think before
you throw out a cheap slur you should be able to back it
up.


Nooo...israel doesnt have kids camps that teach murder.


And that pregnant woman had 4 LIVE children in the car
and were mercilessly butchered....in case you forgot or
perhaps didnt want to remember.

[Proudlib]

12. Forget A Link

I'd settle for something, anything that can be documented. Not everything is on the Internet.

But hey, it sounded good and made Israel look bad so unsubstantiated slanderous heresay is good enough for this forum.

[drdon326]

13. Really....

A-N-Y slanderous hearsay must be true and if said enough
might even be believed.

[lefty_mcduff]

22. Know what you mean

Witness the story floating around this forum about the Jewish woman attacked in France. People used that false event to justify the fence, bigotry towards Arabs, etc.

Both sides make shit up to further their cause.

[Forkboy]

25. *SNARF*

:thumbsup:

[bigbillhaywood]

26. I didn't make shit up. I repeated a story told to me. I've said this

a thousand times and from the beginning. So what don't you understand? Unless you think I am a liar, in which case you should have the balls to say it.

[lefty_mcduff]

38. Apologies

I wasn't actually referring to you as one of the 'both sides' 'making things up' though after rereading my post it certainly could be read that way. Rather, I was trying to show many rabid Israel posters are constantly accusing folks critical of Israel of making things up, while giving posts that bolster their opinions a pass. My apologies. I have no reason to call you a liar.

I'm passed the editing deadline, or I'd change my post.

Hope this suffices.

[bigbillhaywood]

47. no prob

[Classical_Liberal]

34. It was made up?

Do you have a link?

[lefty_mcduff]

37. Being discussed here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x74532

[drdon326]

35. Of course the difference is.....

the french woman story was published....the other story is total
slanderous hearsay with absolutely no proof or basis in fact.

[lefty_mcduff]

41. Really?

It could certainly be argued that the French story is total
slanderous hearsay with absolutely no proof or basis in fact (with the French 'victim' being the guilty party).

Though I guess the accurate tag would be 'libelous'.

[bigbillhaywood]

45. Hearsay yes. Slander no...

unless you want to accuse me of being a liar and intentionally making up the story I repeated to you. If not, please keep quiet about it. Refer to my post #15. I was repeating a story told to me. Period. That makes it hearsay, but not slander. And you're right it is a big difference that my story of my friend's story wasn't published. I didn't file a false police report. I didn't get an entire nation and people around the world to voice protest over something that never happened and made those same people look foolish because I lied. I repeated a story told to me on the I/P basement of an internet message board, and admitted from the very beginning I had no more evidence to give, and if I ran across some evidenec I would provide it. But I guess if it makes you happy to continue to attack me over a non-issue, go ahead.

[drdon326]

48. Try this...

"you know Don, I am personally disgusted at the level of depravity
exhibited by the palestinian terrorists in teaching 10 year olds how to murder.
There is simply no excuse for these heinous camps that teach these
kids how to commit war crimes. And youre right, there is absolutely
no eqivalent in israel or perhaps anywhere.

There is no question that the UN and human rights groups as well
as the EU and the ICJ should condemn these camps and investigate where these camps get the money for this."


Hope you like it.....feel free to use it.

[bigbillhaywood]

50. I doubt this will satisfy you, but here goes...

"I am personally disgusted at the level of depravity
exhibited by the palestinian terrorists in teaching 10 year olds how to murder. There is simply no excuse for these heinous camps that teach these kids how to commit war crimes."

I don't know enough about these camps based on this one article to make a definitive moral judgement one way or another as to whether what they are training the kids to do is wrong. As I said before whether settlers are legitimate targets or not is debatable, and it's a debate I doubt we would agree on. In my mind, the age of the settler and whether they are armed or not makes a difference. Until I know what targets the trainers at these camps are telling the kids are legitmate, I can't make a judgement call as to whether or not these training camps are "depraved". If they are teaching the kids that unarmed children are legitmate targets, then I would condemn it as immoral. But your article is silent on that issue.

"And youre right, there is absolutely no eqivalent in israel or perhaps anywhere."

I do not know this to be true or untrue, so I would not make such a statement. I did repeat a story told by a friend, but, as I have readily admitted from the beginning, I cannot (at this time) corrobrate it. And if such Israeli youth camps did in fact exist, I would still have to know more about the specific things taught to the kids there vis-a-vis specific things taught to the kids at the Palestinian camps in order to make judgement call as to the moral equivalency of the two, if in fact, the former exists at all.

[drdon326]

51. uh-huh.....thank you. n/t.

.

[bigbillhaywood]

15. I told a story that was told to me. Does this make it hearsay? Yes.

Slanderous? Only if you are calling me a liar, because I have no reason to doubt the person who told me. You people are accusing me of cheap shots, while continuing to attack me over my lack of evidence, even though I, from the beginning, freely admitted I did not know if, in fact, these camps still exist. And I stated from the beginning it was based on a story once told to me by a friend. But slander? Who's taking the cheap shots now?

I haven't spoken with this guy in years, but I'll see if anyone knows how to track him down. If I find him, I'll ask him for a way to back it up. In the meantime, I'll try the internet. I'll get back to you and the good doctor when, and if, I find anything.

[bigbillhaywood]

14. The four children were obviously not legitmate targets, unless they were

armed, depending on their ages (I don't remember) it's possible. I will assume they were younger, unarmed children. I already conceded that unarmed children of the armed invaders are not legitimate targets, so I don't understand why you are bringing it up.

[drdon326]

16. Four daughters..Hila (11), Hadar (9), Roni (7) and Meirav (2)

and their pregnant mother were butchered.


fyi

[Forkboy]

17. Only 4?

This post in memory of another poster.

[bigbillhaywood]

18. Thanks for the info. Obviously illegitmate targets under my analysis.

By the way, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that Israelis never kill unarmed Palestinian children.

Here's what I like most about your posts, drdon-- they have absolutely nothing to do with addressing the issue of the legitmacy of occupying and oppressing an entire people, and driving them out of their homes, and, yes, drdron, even killing them (by golly, some are actually innocent).

Basically, your arguments tend to boil down to:

1. Palestinian terrorists do some really horrible things (NO SHIT!)

2. Palestinian society is dysfunctional (Again no shit. Why not have your land seized, then be forced to live in abject poverty under military occupation for generations and see how well you make out)

3. Some Arabs support the Israeli government (Again, no shit, I've explained the reasons for that in previous posts.)

How do these arguments=it's okay for Israel to militarily occupy the Palestinians, deprive them of their homes, their land, their civil rights and rights to self-determination? They don't.

Let's see what else we could justify under your "logic". Hmmm...how about white settlers deprived American Indians of their lands and militarily overpowered them. As a result of that, society on Indian reservations is dysfunctional. Therefore, the white settlers were justified in their actions. (Following from your logic under point 2 above)

Okay, let's try another-- LAPD brutally beat Rodney King. Cops acquitted, blacks rebel. Rebellion degenerates into rioting and looting. A group of black men brutally beat innocent white man (Reginald Denny) simply because he is white. Therefore, LAPD was justified in beating Rodney King (Following from your logic under point 1 above).

Finally. Dutch settlers set up a system of apartheid in South Africa where Black Africans are oppressed and exploited and the white minority rules with an iron fist over the black majority. To help enforce the apartheid system, the white government buys off the support of one segment of black society (the Zulus, in particular the Inhakta Freedom Party) and gives them some power and privileges above other blacks, but still inferior to whites. Consequently, the Inhakta Freedom Party supports the apartheid government. Therefore, apartheid is justified. (Following from your logic under point 3 above).

Hey everybody! It's reverse world! You still disappoint me, drdron.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigbillhaywood]

44. Way to not respond to a single point in my post. n/t

[bigbillhaywood]

49. Mods, rule clarification. I was just wondering why drdon's message was

deleted? It didn't directly respond to the content of my previous post, but I was just wondering what rules it may have violated to be deleted.

[Lithos]

67. It was over the top

extremely off-topic, dealt on a personal level (to you) and was unwarranted.

L-

[Gimel]

73. They were unarmed

including the driver, their mother. No arms were with them in the car. They were picked off on the road.

I know Israelis who carry arms when traveling to Eilat. Armed in self-defense. Does that make them legitimate targets? When snipers and kidnappers are showing up now and then, it would be a pre-caution.

However, it was noted in the story that the woman was unarmed.

[Djinn]

74. does this go for Palestinians

who arm themselves for self defence? next time the IDF justifies shooting someone in the West Bank because "they were armed" I expect you to rush to their defence

[Gimel]

75. Some, maybe

However, if they are armed and engaged in conflict or illegal activities, belong to a terrorist organization, and approaching IDF installations inappropriately.

[Djinn]

76. in other words

given the settlers are ALL engaged in illegal conduct (the settlements are illegal) any adult settlers who are armed are fair targets according to your assesment?

btw - how does one approach something "inappropriately."

[Gimel]

77. The legality

...of the settlements is not an issue to approach on the municipal or local level. If it is an international law, it should be dealt with on an international level. Those who try to kill settlers because they believe the settlements are illegal according to international law, are violating local, state, and international law.

when one approaches stealthily and without prior notice, to a settlement which is guarded and armed (and they know it) it is inappropriate.

[Djinn]

78. Can you not see the contradictions inherent in your argument?

If the illegality of the settlements (and by extension the occupation itself) should not be dealt with on a municipal level I assume you'd be happy with Israel giving up all operations there and handing it all over to the international community?

If settlers can set up armed fortresses then the Palestinians should ALSO be able to be able to bear arms and defend themselves from the approach of any non palestinians?

Interestingly you completely avoid stating whether YOU think the settlements and the occupation are illegal?

Basically what is OK for Israeli's should be OK for Palestinians.

[Gimel]

79. I would be happy

..if there was an end to violence. Both sides have to make an effort to resolve the differences, and it won't be salved by more killing. Violence is response to a perceived law violation is illegal and immoral.

If the illegality of the settlements (and by extension the occupation itself) should not be dealt with on a municipal level I assume you'd be happy with Israel giving up all operations there and handing it all over to the international community?

This is jumping to conclusions. The Disengagement Plan calls for removing settlements. In order to reach an agreement there should be compromises on both sides.

[Djinn]

80. Are the settlements illegal?

is the occupation illegal?

[Gimel]

81. Historical rights

I think that there is valid proof that Jews have historical rights to some areas in the so_called West Bank. The grave sites of the Patriarchs is one such area in Hebron. The continuous existence of Jews there in numbers, although many were slaughtered in a massacre in 1929, does not mean they don't have a right to be there now.

Interesting point. Saying that Jews should go back to Germany (where the concentration and extermination camps were) is like saying they should go back to where they once had a large community. The same circumstance exists in Hebron.

Note: That doesn't mean that I BELIEVE that each and every settlement and outpost should remain.

[IA_Seth]

83. Historical Rights?

What is this term, historical rights?

Is it like the Native American's right to boot our asses back to Europe so they can exercise their "historical rights" to the land?

Is it like China's "historical right" to Taiwan?

I mean, how far back in history do you go for "historical rights"?

What the hell?

[Gimel]

84. Rights

Like the Native Americans have rights, so do the Jews in their homeland. The year 1929 is not such a distant memory, and there could be people alive today had they not been murdered as infants during that massacre.

How far back in history? The continuous presence is significant. It would be larger by far if not for that massacre. Population numbers increase, they don't decrease unless there is ethnic cleansing.

[Lithos]

85. True

And genetic testing has shown the Palestinians and the Jews to be close enough genetically have come from the same group of people. And while the shared ancestor of Ham may have been real or just metaphorical, nonetheless the blood ties are there which means this is the homeland for both peoples. The Jews did not lose it through the diaspora just as the Palestinians did not lose it when they converted to Christianity and later to Islam.

And yes, the numerous deaths on both sides since the start of hostilities have been huge, there has been significant loss of human potential.

L-

[Djinn]

86. did I say that Jews should "go back to Germany"

I don't remember saying that but maybe I've been drinking more than usualy lately?

"Historical" claims are a load of shit. Is the West Bank part of Israel? if so give the Arabs who live their citizenship and the vote. If not stop supporting Israeli settlers who live there with Israeli taxpayers money.

[Gimel]

87. I didn't say Djinn said that

Some on this board have said that a land for the Jews should have been created in Europe.

I'm not sure if you have ever said that. Some have also said that the American dessert states could provide a home for the Jews, since the land is "already occupied". Over half of the Jewish population in Israel originated from Arab states or Middle Eastern states.

[Djinn]

88. So if I can dig far back enough in my family history

and I find out exactly where my relatives came from centuries ago - can I take over your home if we find evidence that they were buried there all that time ago?

The problem with the "jews were here before" argument is that SO WERE THE PALESTINIANS

[Gimel]

89. You forget

The Jews never left Hebron they are still there today. I'm not advocating moving anyone from their home. I don't own a home. I'm a wanderer, so your argument is not applicable.

[Lithos]

66. You are correct

The group is called Gdudei Noar, better known perhaps as Gadna. You can google for the relevent information.

L-

[bigbillhaywood]

69. Thank you, Lithos. Now here is the link for everyone who accused me

of slander: http://www.exploitz.com/Israel-Gadna-cg.php

The people who did everything short of calling me a liar will probably make the argument that this program is not morally equivalent to the Palestinian Camps. Go for it, but I'm really not interested in debating anyone on it. However, you can now all cease accusing me of slander. Thank you, Lithos, for helping me demonstrate, that whatever negative things I may be, I'm not a liar.

[Gimel]

82. I've never heard of

an armed fetus, however. In the 8th month it is a fully formed human being. Hard to deny that it is innocent life.

[lefty_mcduff]

19. Horsespit?

Of course it is a symptom. Steal their land, their farms, demolish their homes, shoot their kids in the street, run over handicapped people with bulldozers, steal water (hell, even Olive Trees), seperate families, torture prisoners, make them second class citizens, abuse them at checkpoints, refuse them medical attention, rob their banks, close their schools, etc, etc, etc and you expect ANY society to be a FUNCTIONAL one?

And any Human Rights groups that are not lock-step with Israel (or heaven forbid, help the Palestinians) are classified on this forum as terrorist sympathizers, Islamofacists, etc.

You seem to want situations like these to validate hatred and bigotry towards Palestinians in general (and, one would assume give the green lights to any Israeli actions and/or oppression).

Sorry.

And yes, SKY is a Murdoch owned outfit, and YES that does matter - It amazes me the number of RW sources are used in the I/P forum as resources when up there ^ (in other forums) such sources are ridiculed and frowned upon as rabidly biased and inaccurate.

[The Magistrate]

4. By Now, Mr. McDuff

Things like this are as much a cause as a symptom.

A thing like this is somewhat analogous to the phenomenon of "shorties" in gang life in our cities: children who are born to ganged-up families and raised entirely within that milieu. Their various mis-behaviors in consequence are certainly a symptom of the problem, but they are themselves the source of the next wave of gang members, and will without doubt take their place in the criminal organizations to which their elders adhere, as they are raised up to do. Training children to this sort of thing goes far to assure that even if much that we probably both agree is the real cause of this conflict were actually addressed in future, there would still be an abundance of "hard men" for whom that would hardly be enough to call an end to the violence.

[lefty_mcduff]

20. Agreed.

Born and raised in Belfast, Northern Ireland where hatred of the Brits was taught to kids practically from birth.

This began an endless cycle of hatred that spanned generations (and to some extent is still happening even though the 'troubles' have become a low-grade conflict).

The teaching of hatred to children is NOT unique to the Palestinians, regardless of what the original poster would have us believe.

[The Magistrate]

23. Indeed, Sir

One of the worst things about this conflict is how little there is about it, once the atmospherics are penetrated, that is in any way unique: it is just people doing what what people do, only very sloppily, and for a very long time....

[newyorican]

7. Posted on LGF @ 8:21AM

now aint that a co-inky-dink....

[Djinn]

10. you're not suggesting that posters

here use the revoltingly racist LGF as a research tool, I'm sure that no dedicated liberals, as we all are here at DU of course, would even soil their eyes with that tripe...LOL!

[newyorican]

27. stranger things have happened...

it rumored that a DUer even posted over there, using the same username and same language. Now ain't that silly.

[lefty_mcduff]

21. Hate to sound like a numpty

but what is LGF?

[The Magistrate]

24. It Is, Sir

A site with a message board, and the unaccountable name of Little Green Footballs, where a number of hard-line pro-Israel types can be found, apparently....

[Djinn]

31. very diplomatic way of putting it Mag

Personally I would have gone with bigoted & delusional internet hate fest, but I've always been told I should tone down the "spade a spade" stuff

[The Magistrate]

40. Never Having Visited The Place Myself, Ma'am

It is not possible for me to do more than recount the gist of tales concerning it....

[newyorican]

28. Words just can't do the hateful buggers justice...

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

[meti57b]

29. There was a feature article on either CNN or MSNBC about this today ...

(I wasn't paying attention to which station it was on.) Why wouldn't it be all over the internet and in the print press. After I saw it on cable I looked for something on the internet about it.

[Scurrilous]

30. It was MSNBC...

...I saw bits of it on a show called 'The Abrams Report' while channel surfing.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. One problem: If sky news can find it so easily so can the Israelis

Why the fuck didn't they shut it down?

[drdon326]

36. CL...

Who is "THEY" that should shut it down?

the PA ??

THE idf ??

HRW ??

THE UN ??

The EU ??

[Violet_Crumble]

39. CL said the Israelis...

Right there in the subject line...

Violet...

[Classical_Liberal]

42. Why hasn't Israel put a stop to it.

It makes no sense and smells extremely funny.

[drdon326]

46. Look at it like the minor leagues ...OF WAR CRIMES

Practice now until you get your chance to REALLY kill
innocent people.

[Djinn]

52. wonder how you feel about this drdon

Israeli daily newspaper “Yedioth Ahronoth” (May 7th 2002) published a report titled “Dear Soldiers, Please Kill a Lot of Arabs”. This call did not come from a known Israeli extremist group nor from settlers, but from Israeli children who sent letters to Israeli soldiers serving in the Tulkarm area during the so-called “Operation Defensive Shield”. The letters sent by Israeli school students encouraged soldiers to disregard rules and regulations and to kill as many Arabs as possible.
According to “Yedioth Ahronoth”, dozens of the letters were sent to soldiers, mostly from children in the 7th through 10th grades, who attend national religious schools!!

Wonder who taught these kids such hatred, note it didn't say "please kill a lot of terrorists, wonder why the schools didn’t object?

Then there's the repeated surveys showing that a majority of Israelis are in favour of various draconian measures from denying arab israelis the vote to ethnic cleansing (often euphemistically referred to as "transfer") Also do you honestly think think that children brought up in the religious settlments (who by definition believed THEY have a God given right to the land and the Palestinians should be removed) aren't being taught to hate? you don't think they are being taught that Goldstein is a hero, that they aren't influenced by the "death to all arabs" grafitti and the lessons in the use of assult rifles? can anyone really be THAT one sided??

[Beansie]

53. Still no link?

That story even if true is not releveant. We are talking about institutionalized teaching of mass murder, not the scribblings of a few school children.

[Djinn]

54. the story is referenced

to the newspaper it was printed in and the date it appeared, I have no net link but there are these things called libraries :eyes: - and it was the scribbling of children produced IN school.

And just to keep everyone happy I DO think the teaching of Palestinian AND Jewish kids to hate is a bad thing, unfortunately in this sort of long standing entrenched conflict it is also inevitable on BOTH sides. Same thing has happened in every conflict throughout man's history. Children even without the "institutionalised" teaching - which I can guarantee you goes on in settler schools atleast - children do not grow up in a vacuum.

[drdon326]

55. No defense here....

I would like to see a link but i will assume you are accurate.
Those children writing those letters were WRONG to write that
but please don't equate "dozens of letters" with the Child Terrorist
kids camp where al-aqsa teach kids to ambush innocents in cars,
practice using AK 47's and teaching bomb making....and now these terrorists are ACTUALLY using these poor kids AS suicide bombers.

There is no excuse for using kids as weapons in war.

Perhaps you want to denounce this vile form of child abuse?



"Also do you honestly think think that children brought up in the religious settlments (who by definition believed THEY have a God given right to the land and the Palestinians should be removed) aren't being taught to hate? you don't think they are being taught that Goldstein is a hero, that they aren't influenced by the "death to all arabs" grafitti and the lessons in the use of assult rifles?"

probably there are isolated incidents of what you describe and it wouldn't surprise me....but compare this to palestinian children... where there is a determined,organized use of children as pawns by the terrorists as part of murdering innocent israeli civilians.

[Djinn]

56. I think I did that

although it was probably while you were posting your reply. I absolutely do not agree that the hate taught to kids in settler schools is isolated however and like I said it is an unfortunate byproduct of entrenched conflict that children are caught up in the spiral of violence and hatred. Unfortunately it is also often the case that the side that has less infrastructure/military capabilities and arms (regardless of whether you support the reasons for teh Palestinian people's struggle you'd have to admit they're limited ersource wise) tend to use more desperate and unorthodox methods.

[drdon326]

57. Whoa....

Palestinian children are not only caught up in the spiral of violence and hatred.....they are recruited and participate in war by scum-sucking coward terrorists who have no morals,ethics or humanity.

[Djinn]

58. and the settlers teach

their kids to love the Palestinians - you'll never accept that this goes both ways will you

[drdon326]

59. Congratulations.....

I'm actually speechless......you missed the point entirely.


OK...youre right. I concede.


eom

[Djinn]

60. No I didn't

I'm just over arguing with someone who will never ever see anything the Palestinians do as in any way justified.

[bigbillhaywood]

61. Bingo! You win an airconditioner wall-unit and two gift certificates to

the Olive Garden. Well put, Djinn.

[Djinn]

62. I live in Melbourne

it's winter - can I have a heater instead!! :D

[bigbillhaywood]

63. Well, the next Bingo prize just happens to be a space heater...

If you don't win it, maybe you can trade your AC to the prize winner for the heater. It doesn't get that cold in Oz, does it?

[Djinn]

64. depends which part - Melbourne's down the southern end

and what you're used to - my extended family (all Scots) don't think so, but over the course of the years I've found winters harder and harder - I like it HOT, summers here get up to 40 or so degree (celsius that is) and winter average is 10 - 15. Give me 40 and stinkin' hot any day!

Are we allowed to vague off into normal conversation in the IP? seems kinda weird!

[bigbillhaywood]

65. Fuck it. Why not? We need a break from all the incessant arguing

Do you know what 10-15 C would be in Farenheit? Just trying to get an idea of how cold it gets.

[Lithos]

68. 50-60F

40C is around 105 (doing the math quickly in my head).

And yes, you can occasionally diverge, but usually that kind of posting happens via PM.

L-

[bigbillhaywood]

70. Thanks. She thinks that's cold? Damn.

[Violet_Crumble]

71. And for us who suck with numbers...

There's this little gadget that does it all for us...

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm

And being in temperate Melbourne, Djinn doesn't know what cold weather is. It was all of -7 (that's 19 in fahrenheit) this morning when I set out for work...

Violet....

[Djinn]

72. one of MANY reasons not to live in canberra!

:evilgrin: