Weisglass, Rice meet on W. Bank fence

[Gimel]

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's bureau chief Dov Weisglass on Thursday met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in Washington to discuss the West Bank separation fence, ahead of deliberations on the fence at the International Court of Justice at The Hague, which are scheduled to begin on February 23. According to Israeli sources, the meeting was very successful.

Sharon and his inner cabinet decided earlier this week to send a letter to the court saying Israel does not recognize its authority to rule on this matter. Israel is yet to decide whether to send representatives to The Hague to defend its position on the fence.

<clip>

Wolf and Satterfield will press for "concrete steps from the Palestinians to confront terror and violence, as well as progress on reform," State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said on Wednesday.

"We are going to make clear, as we have been doing for some time, that in order to make progress on the road map and the president's vision of two states, both sides need to meet their responsibilities and obligations," Ereli said.

"And we will be reiterating to Israel the need for sustained efforts to improve the humanitarian situation and stick to other commitments, including settlement and outpost activity," he said.

In a speech in Washington on Thursday, Wolf said that both Israel and the Palestinians failed to uphold commitments made at the Aqaba Summit in June. According to Wolf, both sides must do more.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/386048.html

True.

[plurality]

1. transcript of meeting

Weisglass: We're going to build this fence and take as much land as we want.

Rice: Don't worry, we'll mouth some platitudes to keep the human rights nuts in line, but you're free to do whatever the hell you want.

Weisglass: Thanks, I knew we could count on you.

Rice: No problem, by the way, how much in loan guarantees do you want this year $15 billion or should we up it to 20.

[Gimel]

2. Uuuugh

Think again.

Issue one: The route is planned for the fence. No changes made.

Issue two: Loan guarantees are at 3 billion a year for three years. But there is a reduction in loan guarantees for money spent on the fence which Bush considers over the Green Line.

:shrug:

[plurality]

3. really?

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=325944&sw=weapons+of+mass+destruction

U.S. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice yesterday told Dov Weisglass, the prime minister's bureau chief, that deducting the cost of the separation fence from U.S. loan guarantees is not on the agenda.

snip

In Crawford, Texas, where President George Bush is on vacation, his spokesman also said that "at this stage" no decision had been made about the loan guarantees. Spokesman Scott McClellan refused to say if Israel had been given any official notice on the issue and said talk about deducting the fence's cost from the loan guarantees was premature because no decision had yet been made.


Sounds to me it's more of the, "Israel should do all it can to ease suffering, but has every right to defend itself" bullshit that Colon Powell utters before the cameras. Meanwhile another boatload of Hellfire missiles and f-16s arrives in Haifa.

[bluesoul]

4. What else to expect from

a neocon leadership that has ideological and other ties to the RW government...

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[plurality]

7. and from Bush mouth piece McClellan

"talk of loan deductions is premature"

Seems to me the fantasy conversation would be more like this:

Rice: We're so concerned about the suffering your wall is inflicting on the Palestinians. If you don't stop we might reduce the never ending flow of money you get from us.

Weisglass: Oh, we're sorry Madame Rice, please forgive us, we're only trying to protect ourselves from those Palestinians and their rocks. We'll do better I promise.

[tinnypriv]

6. Well

The Israeli press vainly pointed out a while ago¹ that the miniscule loan guarantees deduced already were only for settlement construction, not the "security fence".

This had no effect whatsoever on U.S. commentators.

Anyway, it stands to reason that if the guarantees weren't deducted before, they never will be, unless Israel crosses one of Washington's three "red lines".

-----

1. "Aid Cut Tied to Construction, Not Security Fence", Yediot Aharonot, 26 November 2003.

[plurality]

8. and what are the 3 red lines?

Inquiring minds want to know?

What is the limit in Washington when it comes to Israel? WMD's, no they're fine. Spying and selling your secrets to your enemies, forget about it go right ahead. Attacking your military to try and get you into a war you don't want, nope, thank you sir may I have another. It seems there's no end, but if you can come up with a limit, please let me know.

[tinnypriv]

11. Sure

The three red lines are:

1. Do not harm Arafat.
2. Don't "heat up" the region.
3. Don't perform actions in the territories which will cause the U.S. to get involved.

All expire in 2004.

I presume the red lines were decided sometime in Nov/Dec 2003 (they were reported in some detail in Israel at the time).

Note that the red lines are completely logical, since "the American aim" (according to extremely credible Israeli commentators)¹ is:

"To maintain the current "relative silence" and status quo, until after the presidential elections in Nov 2004"

In effect, putting the Roadmap and all U.S. policy into a "Deep Freeze".

Apparently this decision was taken in Aug/Oct.

As you can see, if you are making it crystal clear to Israel that you aren't going to be interfering for the next 12 months, it would only be proper to map out some red lines as well, so Israel knows exactly how far she can go without pissing off the "boss-man".

All pretty obvious, though unmentionable in the U.S. press, which is why almost nobody knows about it.

-----

1. Ben Caspit, 'Bush will stop mediating', Ma'ariv, 2 Oct 2003.

[bluesoul]

12. Tinnypriv

you really nail it every time! ;)

[plurality]

14. interesting, where did you find this and when? n/t

[tinnypriv]

15. The red lines were reported

By Aluf Benn in Ha'aretz, Dec 2 or 3 I think.

The rest is sourced to the footnote I gave, which you can read here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=17644 (translated)

http://images.maariv.co.il/channels/1/ART/550/457.html (original, Hebrew)

Incidentially, the Ma'ariv story was front page news in Israel (can provide the cover picture if you like).

[Gimel]

9. Always the policy.

That policy has been in place for years. Long before the fence was even thought of or dreamed that if would be needed.


http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/Loan_Guarantees_for_Israel.html

[Gimel]

10. Weissglass to discuss rerouting fence with NSA Rice

Dov Weissglass, head of the Prime Minister’s Bureau, is due to meet today with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. The focus of the meeting will be proposed changes in the security fence.

Weissglass is in Washington for a series of meetings with senior American officials on the subject of the security fence. It is thought that he will present to the Americans newly drawn maps that include changes in the security fence, bringing it closer to the green line in several key areas, thus reducing the encroachment on Palestinian land. They will also discuss the UN’s decision to bring the issue of the security fence to the International Court at The Hague.

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=1664


Another news item from the new English online from Israel.

[tinnypriv]

13. FWIW

The new Ma'ariv site is about 6 hours behind the Hebrew version.

EDIT: It also seems to miss a lot of items. What about the important news that David Beckham says sex with Victoria is better than scoring a goal? :D

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.