Can It Ever Really End?

[Violet_Crumble]

By Sam Bahour
23 December, 2003
Countercurrents.org

The world has finally come to its collective senses by explicitly acknowledging that Israel's 37-year military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem must come to an abrupt end in order for peace in the Middle East to have even a remote chance of success. With this belated awakening, a fair and frank question has come to the forefront.

Will the Palestinians accept the end of the Israeli occupation as their cue to cease, once and for all, their five-decade struggle to correct the historic injustices done to them? The easy answer is no.

<snip>

Untangling 37 years of Israeli occupation means rehabilitating injured Palestinians; restoring the lives of thousands of Palestinian political prisoners so they may become productive elements in society; clearing the way for a full and unfettered assumption of power of a central Palestinian government; building thousands of housing units and hundreds of schoolhouses; installing massive amounts of basic infrastructure; absorbing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees and Palestinians living in the Diaspora; and re-establishing property rights for those Palestinians who lost their lands to Israeli settlements, military installations and the separation wall over the last three decades, among other tasks.

All this is going to require not months, not years, but generations. It will require hundreds of billions, maybe trillions of dollars. Palestinians are going to be kept extremely busy catching up with the rest of the world while simultaneously moving ahead to compete effectively in today's globalized world. Nevertheless, this daunting developmental task should not lull the players in the conflict into believing that those Palestinian historic rights violated by Israel prior to 1967 will ever be forgiven, forgotten or dispensed with, especially not while the remaining 22% of historic Palestine (West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem) remain illegally occupied by Israel.

http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-bahour231203.htm

[edzontar]

1. Yes-It can really end!!!

Let's work for peace in the New Year.

Auguri to all.

Ed

[Resistance]

2. the problem there is

if we work for peace, we'll be labelled "terror-supporting hate-mongers".

[The Magistrate]

3. Unfortunately, Ma'am

This gentleman seems to be suggesting continued war. My machine is unable just now to access the full article, so my comments may be based on a mis-apprehension, but if he is suggesting continued effort to reverse or un-do anything done prior to '67, as it seems from the excerpts, that is a formula for continued conflict and violence. To state "historic rights violated by Israel prior to 1967" will not ever "be forgiven, forgotten or dispensed with" does not bode well, and in fact would seem to me to play into the hands of Israeli ultras: if withdrawl from the territories will not bring peace, why bother?

[Violet_Crumble]

18. No, that's not what I got from reading the article...

I wouldn't have bothered posting the article if it suggested that, because it's not a view I agree with. A two-state solution with a border along the Green Line is the only fair and practical solution that I can see. That doesn't mean I don't think that Palestinians dispossessed of their property have a right to feel bitter and expected to feel like they've been dealt a fair hand - they have been on the wrong end of the stick, and I feel a lot of sympathy for them. The reality, however, is that things done before '67 can't be undone without causing the same dispossession to Israelis, and that's why to me an end to the conflict must come with an official acknowledgement by the Israeli government of the wrong done to the Palestinians, and a generous financial compensation for property taken from them...

Violet...

[forgethell]

4. It is sad to say,

but "peace" in the ME means the total defeat of one side, or the other.

There seems to be no compromise that the Palestinians will accept.

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. I believe we have gone over this article before

It paints a bleak picture of a perpetual war unless Israel basically surrenders and the Jews leave, and pay reparations besides.

[Resistance]

7. What?

Who is asking Israel to surrender and Jews to leave?

Demanding a halt to IDF killing sprees, the destruction of people's homes, and stealing of land isn't a request to surrender.

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. You might have missed this part just for one example

"All this is going to require not months, not years, but generations. It will require hundreds of billions, maybe trillions of dollars. Palestinians are going to be kept extremely busy catching up with the rest of the world while simultaneously moving ahead to compete effectively in today's globalized world. Nevertheless, this daunting developmental task should not lull the players in the conflict into believing that those Palestinian historic rights violated by Israel prior to 1967 will ever be forgiven, forgotten or dispensed with..."

Yeah, give them trillions of dollars, but no forgiving anything, forgetting anything, etc.

Sure, lots of peace gonna happen.

[The Magistrate]

10. Here Is The Crux Of The Fellow's Difficulty, Mr. Muddle

"The reality of the region, particularly the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, which is the region's cornerstone conflict, is that Israel's illegal occupation is only one of a multitude of wrongs that Israel must address. In today's global, short-term memory approach to conflict resolution the UN, US, EU and Russia are aiming to resolve only the most recent Israeli historic wrong - the 1967 occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. However, the initial wrong that culminated in the 1948 expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from today's Israel is purposely being neglected in the hope that the embattled Palestinian society will somehow forget that their inalienable rights were violated.

"Palestinians call this right the Right of Return. It is a right embedded in international law, a right afforded to individuals; a right that no government, not even a recognized Palestinian government, can invalidate. Although the most recent peace initiatives, namely the Geneva Accord and the Nusseibeh-Ayalon Statement, prefer to dismiss this right, one must be politically and morally naïve to believe that doing so would bring the two embattled peoples any closer to a real final-status solution - one that will have a fair chance to bring real security to both peoples. Only honest and serious historic accountability - with all the necessary international verifications - would be grounds for celebration of the start of true reconciliation between Palestinians and Israelis."

It is clear from this that he imagines some "rectification" of the creation of Israel itself. This is essentially identical to demanding a peace of victory for the side of Arab Palestine. This is not going to occur: if there is to be a peace of victory, it will be imposed by the Likud bloc, or worse elements within the Israeli polity, empowered by the continued refusal of the political and intellectual leadership of Arab Palestine to down weapons and see reason.

There will not be wholesale repatriation of the descendents of refugees from the fighting in '48 to properties now within the bounds of Israel, though there certainly should be cash compensation for their heirs, and the few who still survive of those who fled. Nor will any of the territory behind the '49 Armistice Line be removed from Israel. These are all that remedying "injustice" from '48 can mean, and they are things that can only be secured by military victory. That is not going to happen.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. I totally disagree with that...

It is clear from this that he imagines some "rectification" of the creation of Israel itself.

That is NOT clear at all from what was written. Since when has a desire for 'honest and serious historical accountability' led to that conclusion? Because I believe there has to be a serious and honest historical accountability, and that the 'Right of Return' is not so much a physical thing as a moral thing. What is so hard about Israel acknowledging the wrong it's done in the past? Why can't people understand that it will take a huge influx of funding to get a future Palestinian state on it's feet, and even with that, those (or their heirs) who did lose their homes may not feel all joyful and grateful about how things have turned out? Why on earth should they be expected to? I'd definately feel short-sheeted if it was me in that situation. Why shouldn't the indigenous population anywhere not want a serious and honest historical accountability or feel bitter about what's happened to them in the past?

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

19. No, we haven't...

It's a very recent article that I read for the first time just before I posted it. Nowhere in the article did it suggest Jews leave Israel, Muddle. An article suggesting that would be as vile and bigoted as any suggesting Palestinians should leave the Occupied Territories and find some Arab state to take them in, and I've got no time for either view...

Violet...

[edzontar]

6. Deep in my heart...I do believe..we shall overcome....

Some day.

Let's hope for a peaceful new year.

WAR IS OVER. If you want it.

[Forkboy]

9. Take a look at this forum alone

and tell me what you think.

[number6]

11. two words,.... religious fanatics (on both sides)

as long as Islamic extremists and Settler extremists
have absolutes - no peace , and I mean peace not "peace"

[Resistance]

12. Can Israeli planners ever

stop sending their military out on killing sprees?

[drdon326]

13. Can It Ever Really End?

yes...the day the Peace Fence is complete.

[Resistance]

14. does Israel need more Peace Bullets and Peace Bulldozers

to murder people with?

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. What Israel honestly needs

Is a chance for peace with the Palestinians. But the terrorists ensure that will never happen.

[Forkboy]

15. Do you honestly believe that is the end of this all Don?

seriously,do you?

[Resistance]

16. its hard to tell