Former Israeli Soldier: ''We behaved like animals, criminals, thieves''

[DuctapeFatwa]

A former Israeli soldier who served three years in the Gaza Strip has described Israeli treatment of Palestinian civilians as befitting “animals, criminals, and thieves.”..“Checkpoints-Twilight Zone,” contains personal testimonies and often brash accounts of the daily harassment and humiliation inflicted by young Israeli soldiers on Palestinian civilians...several types of sadistic behaviors by Israeli soldiers including beating Palestinians and then taking souvenir pictures with them.

“ I remember how we humiliated a dwarf who came to the checkpoint every day on his wagon. They forced him to have his picture taken on the horse, hit him and degraded for a good half hour.”...souvenir pictures with Palestinians they had beaten up, soldiers pissing on the heads of a Palestinian because the man had the nerve to smile at a soldier...forced a Palestinian to stand on four legs and bark like a dog. ...

“His face was right on my flak Jacket and he was bleeding and making a kind of puddle of blood and Saliva, and it disgusted and angered me, so I grabbed him by the hair and turned his head to the side. He cried out loud and to get him to stop, We stepped harder and harder on his back. That quieted him down for a while...went up to him and kicked him in the stomach. The Arab doubled over and grunted, and we all laughed. It was funny. I kicked him really hard in the ass and he flew forward just as I’d expected...Our Arab was just a 16-year-old mentally retarded boy.”...behaviors as such are by no means isolated but rampant in the Israeli army.

An Israeli army spokesperson refused to comment on the book.

http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=2789&CategoryId=12

Complete title
Former Israeli Soldier: ''We behaved like animals, criminals, thieves'' toward Palestinians

would not fit in the box

[BayCityProgressive]

1. well isn't that lovely.

but we have a "special" relationship with Israel.

[Resistance]

8. yeah

we pay Israel to murder Palestinians and steal their land. What a relationship.

[Resistance]

56. not to mention

murder peace activists

[Gimel]

2. Posted before

I think this same article was posted previously by you, Ductape.

[Maple]

3. Well if it's still true

then it's still true hmmmm?

[JohnLocke]

14. No...........

It's a dupe.

[Resistance]

15. No it isn't

Why complain even if it was?

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. No, it was not posted by me, I just saw it a little while ago

I admit it is hard to defend the behavior of the soldiers, and those who are called or obligated to do so, for whatever reason, do not have an easy task.

[Resistance]

43. don't look now

but it's being defended in other threads. The murder of Rachel Corrie is being justified because she was apparently a "terrorist supporting hate monger"

[Blitz]

44. That

And the fact that the criminal terrorist supporting hatemonger wasn't murdered, so no one is defending any murder.

[Resistance]

45. then why smear her as a terrorist supporting hatemonger

if you're not justifying Israel's murder of the girl?

[Jackie97]

10. Not necessarily....

It might be just one more IDFer coming forward.

[Gimel]

5. Cheep way

Here's this guy who acts outragously, getting other soldiers to follow his lead, and then writes a book about the supposed behavior. This sort of sensationalism is very dubious. Some will do anything to make money.

[bluesoul]

6. Maybe he's just

able to deal with his sins as opposed to some others...

[Gimel]

7. Fantasy

but improper behavior includes lying in print.

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. There is a tendency to demonize those who deny some things

Naqba, Holocaust, war crimes committed by nations that people want to think the best of, etc. but I think that the denial is actually a positive sign.

Saying "it ain't so, Joe" is a step up from applauding it, and in some situations, you have to see even the smallest step up as progress :)

[Resistance]

46. good point.

[Gimel]

50. Little proof

however, that this was so. There is ample proof for the historical examples you have raised.

[ex_jew]

11. So is he lying, fantasizing or telling the truth ?

First you accuse him of setting an "outrageous example". Then you say he's making it up. How do you know any of this ? Why aren't Israeli authorities investigating ? Instead, they'll stick with "no comment".

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Resistance]

13. Interesting excuses

Do you know this one is lying because you know Israeli soldiers?

Or, you know he's lying because he is not an Israeli native?

Or, you know he's lying because he displays what you see as "opportunist behavior"?

Which one is it, exactly?

[Gimel]

16. Exactly

All of them. The points are not mutually exclusive, but cumulative in effect. None of them contradicts the other, so I'm amazed that you would even ask such an irrlevant question.

[Resistance]

17. Sorry, you haven't proven a thing

Do you really think that because you know some Israeli soldiers, proves that this one is lying?

Do you really think that because he is not an Israeli native, proves that he is lying?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. Reposted with slight alteration...

I was made aware that a slang term for lying that is commonly used over here was a bit insensitive, so as I had no intention of offending anyone's cultural or religious sensibilities, I've ditched the slang and reposted. My apologies to whoever it did offend as it was totally unintentional on my part.

It's got me wondering. Someone who's not a native of Israel is more prone to telling lies than those born in Israel? I wonder if this also applies to non-native Americans who move to Israel?

Straight up, it should be clear to all and sundry that meeting a few Israeli troops does not mean that the person has some great insight into their honesty or lack of it, or that all Israeli troops are the same. Likewise, it's just a tad offensive to suggest that people who aren't native to a country are more prone to telling fibs than people born there...

Violet...

[Gimel]

31. I'm only stating an opinon

as are you. You have proven nothing either.

[Lithos]

34. Immigrants not to be believed?

So you are saying that in a country of immigrants, 1 in 6 people are not to be believed because they are first generation immigrants?

Or is it because he is an ex-IDF soldier that he is not to be believed? I know back in the 60's there was much disrespect given to veterans, but I don't think this is what you said. On the other end of the spectrum, this man served his term of service and was apparently discharged honorably so I can't see why this should be held against him.

I have a hard time accepting this kind of reasoning for explaining his motivation for saying what he said. Please correct me if I've misspoken, but all I can see is the singular option that you disagree personally with what he had to say. Fair enough, but why not say just this?

L-

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

40. Wow, such great lengths to rehabilitate the statement of another

and silence is your reward.

[Resistance]

41. oh well

what can ya do

[Gimel]

47. Not at all my statement

I noted three facts that were in the story about him, and when seen in the context of this outlandish story he has written, he contends that he was the very instigator. Am I calling him a liar? No. He said that himself and I believe it is true. He wrote the book to make money. Did he give it away? Does he do it as a service? He exposes his own actions to scrutiny and hopes that that will implicate the entire IDF. He is neither the personification of the immigrant or the personification of the IDF, but a poor example of both.

(Sorry not to have responded earlier. I have been ill with the flu and have not been following the threads very well. }

[Jackie97]

33. I know Vietnam Vets....

Therefore, I know that My Lai did not happen. Did that sound illogical to you? That's how your post sounds to us.

I don't see what being a native has to do with a darn thing. The person obviously loved Israel enough to join IDF. I think that's probably shows more loyalty than any "native".

[Gimel]

48. You are not aware

evidently, but army service is mandatory in Israel for all of able mind and body until the age of 50 for men, and 35 for women (prior to marriage).

So this individual, having immigrated as a young person, did his military duty whether he was loyal or not.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jackie97]

32. OMG, Gimel!

Even when a former member of the IDF is admitting to problems, you're still going to pretend it might not have happened by saying "supposed behavior"? Unbelievable.

[Gimel]

49. As a psychologist

I would have to check that out with the said individual in person. If the man said he had problems, I believe that he may need help. Does he get the help he needs by writing a book trying to discredit himself and others?

[Resistance]

18. do animals, criminals, and thieves

deserve free attack helicopters to murder civilians with? How about free bulldozers to destroy homes of innocent families?

[Resistance]

54. oh wait I know

It's Peace Bulldozers right

[pistoff democrat]

21. Now, if I were to respond as

is the usual way on I/P, I would not have had the bravery that, for instance, Gimel, had but rather I would use the other MO and change the subject to something like, "Well, we did it in VietNam." or, maybe, "Those poor Israeli soldiers were probably tortured by the PA."

Could someone grow up around here, anyone, and understand this is one of the worst things about any war: it dehumanizes all involved!

[bluesoul]

22. Tell that to those

saying that the IDF is the most "moral army on the planet" and that it has the "higher moral ground". Which is obviously BS...

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

25. LOL

Please stop what? What did I start in the first place?!?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

27. What?

Deliberately hurtful messages? LOL, like all those anti-European threads right?

Maybe you should have in mind that some people consider goading, "baiting, inflammatory, off-the-point, deliberately hurtful messages" anti-European threads, those accusing Europeans of inherent anti-semitism and any criticism of Sharon as anti-Israeli and anti-semitic. And that's just one of the things. I have found a lot of posts here to be insulting towards Europeans in general and all those that don't agree with Sharon, yet I am not lecturing here what others should do or not do. This is a joke!

[Gimel]

51. Can you deny

that there is psychological warfare being waged against Israel over the Internet? Many things are published that are half-truths. Many that are total fabrications. I believe that this man's story is a half-truth, that much of what he has written is exaggerated to make a better or more impressive story.

[bluesoul]

52. Gimel can you deny there is

psychological warfare being waged against Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims over the Internet? From rw sources as well as others claiming to be something else...

[Gimel]

55. You have failed

to answer my question in any way, but have shot it back at me. You are not facing the issue. That avoidance costs. In fact, the Israeli attempt to counter the Internet war, and the media war, has come much too late. The RW sources you refer to are not Israeli, and although they do offer some support to Israel, the appeal to the religious of their own creed.

[Resistance]

29. pistoff

Are you prepared to give the same rationalization to Hamas suicide bombers? That "war" "dehumanizes all involved" and that's why they bomb civilians?

[Resistance]

35. no answer?

[Lurking Dem]

36. Pistoff has departed.

n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Yeah, I checked out the profile...

Explains why they're not answering any questions, I guess...

Violet...

[Resistance]

38. oh ok

;)

[durutti]

30. Well, I can predict the response to this one...

"Must be a self-hating Jew."

[Resistance]

39. either that, or

"He made the whole thing up"

[Resistance]

42. these days

anyone who makes an accusation, or merely reports their observations of criminal activity by the IDF is "obviously lying"

[Resistance]

53. no kidding

animals criminals and thieves who murder non-violent peace activists in cold blood