Palestinians stage Jerusalem bus provocation (freedom riders)

[azurnoir]

Activist Nadin Sharabit said he wanted to draw attention to Israeli travel restrictions in the West Bank. He said Jewish settlers move in and out of Jerusalem, but Palestinians cannot do the same.

Israel has restricted Palestinian access to Jerusalem since a Palestinian uprising that started in 2000, including several bloody suicide bombings in the city. The Palestinians claim Israeli-controlled east Jerusalem as their capital.

The Palestinian activists dubbed themselves "Freedom Riders" after 1960s American civil rights activists who worked in the US south to counter racial discrimination and segregation there, though there were no security elements in the American rights struggle.

An Israeli security official said there are "proper channels" to get permits, and that the restrictions "were imposed due to security concerns." He spoke on condition of anonymity because no formal statement was made.



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4148743,00.html

[aquart]

1. Probably would have worked better

Before they went on buses wearing bombs.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. Ah, of course, all Palestinians are guilty of suicide bombing... N.T.

[shira]

23. No, the point is that many buses suddenly exploded due to open borders. It's not racist. NT

[pelsar]

24. why do we always have these dumb comments to deal with?

clearly any semi intelligent person understands that people who where suicide belts/vests don't really advertise that fact and have succeeded in slipping in to busses un noticed blowing up and killing/crippling between 30-50 people .

and israelis are not super beings who can read minds, see though jackets etc to know which Palestinian of the thousands is the one with the bomb...the grandmother?, the mentally disturbed kid? the women with the medical pass?

so what is our obvious conclusion?..i guess its that some prefer that israel not bother checking any Palestinian with the obvious consequence of hundreds of israelis as in the past getting killed and crippled

what other conclusion is there?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. Because of the word "they".

If you want to argue "Probably would have worked better before other people, whose actions they were not responsible for, went on buses wearing bombs." then be my guest - I think that's a reasonable argument.

But implicitly blaming all Palestinians for terrorism is worth calling, whenever it happens.

[pelsar]

30. and calling out incredibly dumb statements is also always worthy

the argument is so simplistic its like explaining to a 2 year old 1 + 1 = 2

one should not need a long winded explanation to explain such a simplistic situation. in fact i would say that there is implied racism in your original comment, that somehow israelis have the means to figure out who of the 1,000's might be carrying a bomb in microseconds but prefer to punish all Palestenians.

this is in fact is a very common argument we see constantly..and its really a dumb argument meant to fuel to flames, since if you would actually have a discussion about the ways and means that are used to discover bombs you would eventually quietly leave the discussion, having no serious options to offer...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. No, demanding that not all Palestinians are blamed for suicide bombings is not dumb.

You have - whether deliberately or accidentally I can't tell, although the persistence with which you're doing so is leading towards the former conclusion - misinterpreted my objection.

"Israel needs to institute blocks on Palestinian entry to prevent suicide bombings" is not something I commented on either way.

What I said, and have continued saying, and you appear to be ignoring, is that "there exist Palestinian suicide bombers" must never be transmuted into "All Palestinians are suicide bombers" or "All Palestinians are blame for suicide bombings", which the post I was replying to was heavily implying.

If Israel wants/needs to impose checks on all Palestinians, it must acknowledge that it is - if not "punishing" - at least "grossly hampering the lives of" a large innocent majority because of the actions of a few, rather than - as the post I replied to initially did - implying that all Palestinians are guilty.

That's not necessarily the wrong call, as you appear to think that I think it is, but trying to present it as "punishing the guilty for their own actions" needs to be slapped down hard.

[pelsar]

33. huh?..israel needs to acknowledge....

it must acknowledge that it is - if not "punishing" - at least "grossly hampering the lives of" a large innocent majority because of the actions of a few

you must think the Palestinians are so incredibly dumb they can't figure out why they are standing in line, to cross a checkpoint or why their are walls built when before the bombings the lines were fewer and there were no walls.

i do believe the Palestinians can figure out that on their own 1 + 1 = 2, they really don't need israel to spell it out for them.

if "all Palestinians were suicide bombers there would be a lot more dead people around...that too is obvious.

or you can reverse your statement, perhaps you can use this next time:
that you ( PA )understands that suicide bombers created a very dangerous atmosphere of distrust where once there existed a minimum of trust and (you)they understand why israel has set up the security checks...

[King_David]

26. Every single suicide bombing in Israel

Was by a Palistinian .
Gee see how your logic works now?

[bemildred]

2. Interesting bit from the Haaretz story:

"In the West Bank, the two sides usually use different bus systems.

Although no specific rule prevents Palestinians from riding the "Israeli" buses, they are generally not allowed into the Jewish settlements these buses serve, and therefore would have to get off each time the bus entered a settlement. The Palestinians also need permits to enter Jerusalem, which the buses also serve. "

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinian-activists-demonstrate-by-riding-israeli-bus-in-west-bank-1.395793

[holdencaufield]

3. Israel should just Annex the West Bank

Problem solved -- no more occupation, no travel restrictions.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Really? There'd also be no more of Israel being a democracy...

Not unless yr thinking that Israel would give equal rights and citizenship to all Palestinians in the West Bank? In which case, Israel would no longer have a Jewish majority, which appears to be a very important thing to Israel...

[Matilda]

5. Just a few old UN Resolutions to annoy them.

But nothing they'd really worry about.

[parkia00]

9. Do you volunteer yourself?

To annex means to take and keep. That means boots on the ground. Join the IDF then rather than just a forum warrior.

[riverwalker]

6. following them on "Freedom Rides" on Twitter

pretty interesting videos & pics.

#FreedomRides #freedomrides

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azurnoir]

8. In photos: Civil rights activists detained on 'Freedom ride'

"The US civil rights activists were protesting against policies of segregation, where black people were forced to sit at the back of buses. ... Palestinians are not even allowed to board settler-only buses, or even travel on the settler roads, built on stolen Palestinian land," said Sarah Colborne, PSC director.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=437117

[oberliner]

10. Sarah Colborne?

She's a Mavi Marmara survivor I believe.

[azurnoir]

11. and? n/t

[oberliner]

15. And an avid promoter of "BDS"

Not a fan of the two-state solution either.

[shira]

16. Those advocating the destruction of Israel do not get to lecture on civil rights. NT

[azurnoir]

17. surviving the Mavi Mamara , BDS supporter, and possible one stater OH MY

the need to delegitimize seems strong with some

[oberliner]

19. Just the fact, ma'am

No need to run away from reality.

It's not like you ever post information about sources to "shed a little light" on where they might be coming from. No?

[azurnoir]

20. No there is no need to run away from someone who advocates non violent means of resistance

and before you chime in with but thee Mavi Marmara lets remember it was non-violent until IDF violently boarded the ship

[King_David]

27. Along with the Kumbayah " kill the Jews"

Non - violent song?

Ha ha ha

[azurnoir]

29. evocative and thoughtful as always I see

albeit reminiscent of a Simpsons character

but let me guess this is a setup for 'someone' to queue up a fav-o-rite oldie from youtube

[Dick Dastardly]

34. You are wrong. The violence on the Mavi Mamara was planned and started by those on the boat. Turkish

reporter Şefik Dinç who was on board and witnessed it said it was not the IDF who started it but was planned and started by Islamist activists and other activists spoiling for a fight.

Here are some articles with plenty more if you google them

In a TV interview, Turkish journalist Şefik Dinç, who was on the Mavi Marmara and wrote a book about it, said that no shots were fired from the Israeli helicopters and that IDF soldiers did not open fire until their lives were in danger. The interview clearly contradicts the IHH narrative.

Overview

1. On September 24, the Turkish journalist Şefik Dinç granted an interview to Israel’s Channel 1. Dinç witnessed the Mavi Marmara confrontation and described the incident in a book he wrote, titled Kanlı Mavi Marmara (The Bleeding Mavi Marmara). His account is fairly balanced, giving considerable weight to events that he personally witnessed and experienced.1

2. In the interview granted to Channel 1, Dinç reiterated a key point he brought up in his book. He said that he had seen with his own eyes that IDF soldiers who descended from the helicopters on the Mavi Marmara did not fire at the passengers. According to Dinç, it wasn’t until the soldiers realized that some of their friends’ lives were in danger that they began using live ammunition.2

3. Dinç’s descriptions as well as additional remarks given in the book he wrote and in the interview are consistent with the testimonies of the Israeli soldiers who boarded the Mavi Marmara. They completely contradict the narrative constructed by the IHH about the flotilla events, which relies on the biased testimonies of activists who were on board the Mavi Marmara. Those testimonies were the basis for the prejudiced, one-sided report compiled by the UN Human Rights Council and, we assume, will be key in Turkey’s report to the UN fact-finding mission.
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e130.htm

also
Preparations made by IHH for confrontation with the IDF and the violence exercised by that organization’s operatives as photographed and documented in a book by Şefik Dinç, a Turkish journalist who took part in the Mavi Marmara flotilla

cont
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e131.htm


"The Bloodstained Mavi Marmara"
Sefik Dinc is a well-respected photo-journalist, working for the Turkish newspaper, Haberturk. Together with 16 other Turkish journalists, he was on board the Mavi Marmara on its ill-fated voyage last May to break Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza. He not only succeeded in photographing the violent confrontation between the IHH and the Israeli military, but managed to conceal his photographs from the Israeli security forces, and then smuggled them into Turkey.
cont
http://a-mid-east-journal.blogspot.com/2010/10/bloodstained-mavi-marmara.html

[azurnoir]

36. The original story was that IDF landed on the deck firing paint balls

(loaded with shards of glass) is that now acknowledged to be a lie? Regardless of when IDF opened fire with live ammo it still is no indication that the victims on the Mavi Marmara planned the violence that took place

Can we take it that Sefik Dinc was one of the journalists that got his equipment back?

eta upon further investigation into Sefik Dinc it turns out that yes he was given his equipment back, moreover his photographs were taken far below deck and were of wounded IDF being treated by Turkish medics, they were the subject of the so called much ballyhooed 'cropping' scandal calling into question his actual presence on the deck

[shira]

38. No amount of video evidence or testimony would ever be enough for you, right? N/T

[shira]

14. What a load of shit. All Palestinians need are permits to ride in busses to and from settlements...

One easy example is the Palestinian construction workers bussed to and from settlements every day.

Before Intifada 2 there were no restrictions whatsoever.

It's not racial.

This is pure demonization and delegitimization of Israel.

[azurnoir]

18. just like all Palestinians need to do to build in area C and East Jerusalem is get permits

which rarely happens

but jeez the Palestinians helping to build the settlements have no problem at all getting them, it's only when Palestinians wish to build in areas claimed by Israel that we have a problem I see

[shira]

21. Based on what you know, you think Israel's policy is racist? n/t

[azurnoir]

28. oh geez I feel a case of the 'ists and isms' coming on

nope Israels policies can not be racist because as we all know Palestinians are not a race however Israel's policies favor the majority group in Israel

[shira]

32. Again, do you think Israel's policy WRT bus "security" is actually racist? n/t

[azurnoir]

35. By definition it can't be "racist" because neither Israeli's or Palestinians

are of a single race, however Israel's policies with regards to Palestinians are prejudiced in favor of Israeli's, with a special emphasis on Jewish Israelis

add to that 'security' has been used as a cover for much of this type of thing whether it is officially 'racist' or not

[shira]

37. Wow, you really think Israel requiring Palestinian permits for buses is bigoted. That's fascinating.

This policy wasn't in effect until after the 2nd Intifada started, when buses suddenly started blowing up, but you don't believe this is related to security. It's as if Israel was just waiting for a 2nd intifada to happen so they could rip the masks off and start going all apartheid on Palestinians...

Even when Palestinians get permits to ride on buses, you still think it's bigoted.

Fascinating.

I don't think it's possible for you to ever call bullshit on any type of anti-zionist behavior or propaganda, no matter how absurd or asinine. To do so is to admit something is wrong with the anti-zionist movement altogether. That would be blasphemy because the anti-zionist movement is somewhat infallible in your view. To question it is anti-Palestinian. Seems the anti-zionist movement is now a religious movement....

[Scurrilous]

12. Good on them!

:thumbsup:

[King_David]

13. 1

:thumbsup:

;)

[bemildred]

39. Palestinians embark on civil disobedience protests against 'demographic segregation'

'We have the right to reach Jerusalem. Why doesn't a settler need an entry permit? We do not obey apartheid rules. We're Palestinian, and this is Palestine,' protesters insisted.

Quite a large number of people awaited the no. 148 Egged bus that stopped in Kokhav Ya'akov junction on Tuesday afternoon. One could immediately recognize that these weren't the regular passengers from the neighboring settlements.

"You can't believe what's going on here," whispered one religious man into his cellular phone, "it's unbelievable." The man was obviously referring to the mob of journalists - with their multi-sized cameras, microphones and notepads - surrounding five men and a woman who were waiting at the station.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/palestinians-embark-on-civil-disobedience-protests-against-demographic-segregation-1.395820