Hamas's Meshaal: U.S. had no right to kill bin Laden

[oberliner]

(Reuters) - Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said on Monday the United States had no right to kill Osama bin Laden but said this did not mean the Palestinian Islamist group supported al Qaeda's attacks on civilians.

Speaking on France 24 television, the Damascus-based Meshaal also said there should be more freedom in Syria, where President Bashar al-Assad has deployed his armed forces to crush a seven-week-old revolt against his authoritarian rule.

"Concerning bin Laden everyone knows Hamas has differences from al Qaeda ... especially (its) operations targeting civilians, but all this doesn't give the U.S. the right to kill as they please without any regard for the law and to assassinate Arabs and Muslims, blaming everything on them and accusing them of terrorism," Meshaal said in the France 24 interview.

During the height of a Palestinian uprising between 2000 and 2005, Hamas carried out dozens of suicide bombings in Israeli towns and it is classified by the United States and the European Union as a terrorist group.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/09/us-hamas-meshaal-binladen-idUSTRE7484W220110509?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

[dennis4868]

1. Hamas, Greenwald and other wacky liberals....

now have something in common.....hahahaha!

[azurnoir]

2. In your opinion does this constitute proof positive of a al Qaeda Hamas link? n/t

[oberliner]

5. They are branches from the same tree

Both are offshoots from the Muslim Brotherhood.

Obviously, they have their differences.

Remember that Al Pacino had to kill Fredo even though they were technically brothers.

[azurnoir]

6. by tree you mean Islam? n/t

[oberliner]

7. Do you know what a "family tree" is?

It's a metaphor - comparing the various relationships in one's family to branches for a tree.

For example - if a couple has two children, than each child would represent a branch on the family tree.

The Muslim Brotherhood "gave birth" to several different groups (a la children) - two of those are Hamas and Al Qaida.

[azurnoir]

9. do you have a link showing the actual history of that birth

on Googling "muslim brotherhood gave birth to al qaeda" I found many sites parroting that but offering actual proof

[azurnoir]

10. Edit to above comment the line that reads

on Googling "muslim brotherhood gave birth to al qaeda" I found many sites parroting that but offering actual proof

should read

on Googling "muslim brotherhood gave birth to al qaeda" I found many sites parroting that but not offering actual proof

[Alamuti Lotus]

11. no, that is actually (sort of, in a raped and mutilated way) a correct statement

"al-Qai'dah" was borne specifically from the partnership of Sheikh Ussamah's money and influence and Zawahiri's ikwanis (Egyptian followers of Qutb who believed that the mainstream Brotherhood had become corrupted by the accursed Sadat's crumbs of power), curiously only after the Palestinian martyrs Sheikh Abdallah Azzam and Mustafa Shalabi were murdered (possibly on orders from Zawahiri). Azzam(SWT) was Sheikh Ussamah's primary mentor on his way, and had a part in founding the Hamas organization out of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza, though he had nothing to do with the more modern day to day (primarily Dr Rantisi, Sheikh Yassin and Khalid Meshaal, etc). As an aside, al-Qai'dah is not and was never a "wahhabist" movement (though the term has popularity with self-styled "terrorism experts" and lazy government/press bureaucrats who don't know any better), due to their unyiedling opposition to the Saudi monarchy (actual "Wahhabist" priests are strictly aligned to the Saud family by fraudulent tradition), and would more properly be described as a (somewhat distant) offshoot of the MB and Qutbist line of thinking (though the branch from Zawahiri-Zarqawi owe more to the wretched writings of Ibn Taymiyyah than anybody from the last few centuries, 'Takfiri' is the preferred term of abuse or praise). Azzam and Shalabi would have been an earthquake to the mideast and by proxy the world had they survived, instead there is now what there is now.. sigh.
The MB was born in Egypt out of Qutb's movement, but has now many branches around the world in many nations; all of them wretched. disclaimer: your humble narrators (me and my split personalities) owes more influence on the subject to Hizbu'Tahrir & Hizbu'llah and is severely biased against the salafists/Ikwanis/Takfiris/Wahhabis accordingly; that, and Pakistani salafists have actually tried to kill me, so I have what the Mexicans would (probably not) call "Mucho Biasistos" on the subject.

However, there is such a gulf between Hamas' nationalist platform and al-Qai'dah's outlook that it is only of the most ridiculous chicanery and ignorant opportunism to mention them in the same sentence like this; there is enough animosity between salafists and Hamas that I would be actually surprised if Meshaal is not really dancing a jig at the news of Sheikh Ussamah's passing, appearances for the media notwithstanding. oberliner's new apparent obsession on this matter is really just crass opportunism, writ large.

[azurnoir]

12. Thank you as you have obviously far greater knowledge

of the subject matter than I, who like many 'Westerners' suffer an ignorance of the histories and political stances of the players involved.

That being said I thought at present there was most likely little love lost between Hamas and al Qaeda or al Qai'da as prior to a couple of weeks ago the only thing I had read where the two were mentioned in the 'breath' involved Hamas turning an al Qai'da operative over to Egypt, which is never a sign of friendly intentions

[Alamuti Lotus]

13. this is a bad analogy, but...

ever see a group of Trotskyists & Stalinists talking to each other about anything? Kinda like that. The eternal debate between "socialism in one country" and "permanent world revolution" isn't actually a bad analogy to the situation there if a few words are substituted. To the average western rube or zionist hasbarist "they're all the same", but the differences in approach couldn't be much greater and still fall under the same subject header.
The "salafists" (a somewhat generic term for hardline Sunni militant types, it does have a specific meaning but it has been kinda lost in context of events, like most things do) believe Hamas 'lost the mission' when they decided to participate in things like US/Israeli-sponsored elections and being a part of the so-called 'peace process', etc etc... not all of that is actually true, but the true believer of any stripe rarely seems to worry about such things. Personally I believe power severely corrupted them from an erstwhile decent big-picture agenda (certain action-items on the small-picture agenda in disagreement), but that's about as much as I'll give in on; the argument is about power, not religion--those with the longer bushier beards (and Saudi-Zionist money under the table) thought they'd get a free ride when Hamas took over following the failed US/Israeli Dahlan coup and decided to cause as much trouble as they can (generally the salafist plan of action anyway, given whatever context), while Hamas quickly learned that having such power in the context of a US-dominated world is a pretty nuanced and actually shitty position for a revolutionary movement to fall into.

[LeftishBrit]

3. As I think I've said before...

this is more than a little ironic in view of Hamas' very evident willingness to kill its political enemies, many of whom are also Arabs and Muslims.

[azurnoir]

4. You mean like Salafists? should they be allowed to grow unchecked in Gaza? n/t

[LeftishBrit]

8. I must admit...

that while I would have preferred a trial there, I had limited sympathies for the people involved.

But that was hardly the only occasion; they have killed many Fatah members and other political opponents; alleged collaborators (without trial); etc.

[azurnoir]

14. considering this is the same group that killed

Vittorio Arrigonni my sympathy is limited, however atrial if it was possible would have been better

[oberliner]

15. No it's not

Salafi leader: Islam prohibits murder

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Salafi leader Iyad Ash-Shami said Friday that Salafi groups were not involved in the murder of an Italian activist in the Gaza Strip.

The killing of Vittorio Arrigoni "had nothing to do with Islam," he said, adding that Salafi groups and scholars all agreed that the killing of any man was prohibited.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=378949

You appear to be swallowing the Hamas line unquestioningly.

Why do you think this group killed him?

Because Hamas said so?

[azurnoir]

16. odd that you appear to defend the Salafi ?

Gaza, (Pal Telegraph) - Body of Vittorio Arigoni found in abandoned house, official says; 2 men arrested, others being sought; group had threatened to execute man. GAZA - Security officials found the body of an Italian man who had been abducted in the Gaza Strip in an abandoned house overnight Thursday, a Hamas security official said.

Two men were arrested and others were being sought.

In a You Tube clip the group posted online earlier Thursday, a Jihadist Salafi group in Gaza aligned with al Qaida had threatened to execute Italian rights activist Vittorio Arigoni by 17:00 local time (1400 GMT) unless their leader Hesham al-Sa'eedni, whom it detained last month, was freed.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the kidnapping and called for Arigoni's "immediate release without conditions," in a statement overnight Thursday.

http://www.paltelegraph.com/palestine/gaza-strip/8931-breaking-news-italian-activist-killed-in-gaza-strip.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4t-SR5AKs8

[oberliner]

18. Salafi groups are denying any responsibility

"We don't know which group was behind it. At this stage the main Salafi groups are denying any responsibility. So the situation is quite confusing as who is exactly behind it," the Al Jazeera correspondent said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/2011414194735306181.html

[azurnoir]

19. as the al Jazeera correspondent said the MAIN Salafi groups are denying

but that hardly eliminates all of them, but you are free to have your own opinion and to appear to defend whom ever you wish

[oberliner]

20. You wrote that they were the "same group" that killed Vittorio Arrigoni

Now you seem to be conceding that the Salifists are in fact several different groups.

[azurnoir]

21. No that is your twist my statement was about Salafists in general

you are the ones splittings hairs but as ther are comments on this thread that are truly interesting and should be read I'll let this boring aside go on forever

[oberliner]

22. Nothing boring about it - what other groups do you make such generalizations about?

Or is it just this one?

[azurnoir]

17. above comment edited n/t