Palestinian Leaders Suddenly Call for Elections

[azurnoir]

The Palestinian leadership announced Saturday that it planned to hold presidential and parliamentary elections by September, apparently a response to the revolts in Tunisia and Egypt calling for greater democracy and government accountability.

The decision was announced in the West Bank city of Ramallah after a meeting of the executive committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which oversees the Palestinian Authority. Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, is also the chairman of the P.L.O.

At the same meeting, Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian peace negotiator with Israel, submitted his resignation and Mr. Abbas accepted it. A subcommittee was formed to look for a successor as well as to consider restructuring the negotiations unit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13mideast.html

[truedelphi]

1. Can't make the mistake of saying something meaningful

on this board.
But did K & R.

Oops! cannot K & R things on this forum!

[Ken Burch]

2. Good. More democracy spreading in the Middle East.

This can be a good thing, if people trust it to be.

[truedelphi]

3. here are people that

many others in the Middle East will be emulating.

[whosinpower]

4. The palistinian papers

Have wiped away any semblance of legitimacy of the current(?) government of Abbas.

Will Abbas run again?

And then there is Hamas - who refuses to participate.....

So - for the electorate - they are between a rock and a hard place.

[azurnoir]

5. The Papers have had another effect IMO

they along with the looming elections have brought any talk of forming a Palestinian State to a dead halt. I am guessing that no further recognition or bringing of issues before the UN can happen now with any hope of success, the obvious excuse will be that well we have to see who the Palestinians will vote into power......

Kind of saved the US from having to lay its cards on the table which could have proved very embarrassing situation and gave Israel some time to plan further strategy

[azurnoir]

6. well it appears the PLO is going to the UN

PLO to press on with settlement vote at UN


Palestinian representatives at the UN will push forward with a draft resolution calling on the Security Council to condemn settlement construction, PLO Executive Committee member Saleh Raafat said Tuesday.


A vote will be held on the resolution "espite all of the pressure exerted on the Palestinians and the Arab-state supporters by the US," Raafat said.


"While we call on the United States to withhold their veto on the resolution," the official said, "Palestinian representatives at the UN are prepared to bypass the UNSC and use the 'Uniting for Peace' resolution to have the draft passed."


"Uniting for Peace" gives powers to the UN General Assembly when the Security Council, "because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=360248


I truly wish them luck

[whosinpower]

7. Interesting

I understand what they hope to achieve. I suppose this might be the feather in their cap that reassures the palistinian populace that they are indeed working for them, and not just empty puppets....

If successful, it may be a boon for them politically - but I am unsure if it will undo the damage that the palistinian papers did. If it fails, however.....I cannot see the PLO or the palistinian authority surviving. If it fails - Abbas will dissolve the authority....

[azurnoir]

8. we'll see how it goes the 'Quartet' says it is still hoping to establish

a Palestinian state by September, according to Maan

[whosinpower]

11. Interesting times then.....

A palistinian state in September....elections in September.....

[whosinpower]

13. The US is pressuring them to withdraw the motion

And threatening to use their veto against language that they have, in the past agreed with and spoke of.

According to Jpost - the PA authority will still press on with its motion.

In my humble opinion - this is the last gambit for Abbas, for Fatah, for the Palistinian authority. If it fails - there will be no elections in September. There will be no Palistinian authority. He will dissolve it and leave for Jordan. What is the point - after all?

[azurnoir]

14. I hope they do not withdraw the motion

also I am not so sure Abbas alone has the authority to dissolve the PA or what the result of such an action would be

The Palestinian Authority was formed in 1994, pursuant to the Oslo Accords between the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) and the government of Israel, as a five-year interim body, during which final status negotiations between the two parties were to take place. As of 2011, more than sixteen years following the formulation of the PNA, a final status has yet to be reached. According to the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority was designated to have control over both security-related and civilian issues in Palestinian urban areas (referred to as "Area A"), and only civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B"). The remainder of the territories, including Israeli settlements, the Jordan Valley region, and bypass roads between Palestinian communities, were to remain under exclusive Israeli control ("Area C"). East Jerusalem was excluded from the Accords.

This page was last modified on 13 February 2011 at 19:01.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority

but if the US veto's this motion it will completely IMO 'delegitimize' the US's role in the so called negotiations and possibly it's in the Quartet, or reduce it to simply that of an advocate for Israeli interests

[whosinpower]

26. I do not know that answer either

Only that he threatened to do so before - if the settlements do not cease.

[azurnoir]

22. well it now appears that the US will not veto the motion

if this true I am pleasantly surprised

[whosinpower]

25. They changed the wording - the Arabs reject the statement

snip - The U.S. informed Arab governments Tuesday that it will support a U.N. Security Council statement reaffirming that the 15-nation body "does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity," a move aimed at avoiding the prospect of having to veto a stronger Palestinian resolution calling the settlements illegal.

But the Palestinians rejected the American offer following a meeting late Wednesday of Arab representatives and said it is planning to press for a vote on its resolution on Friday, according to officials familar with the issue. The decision to reject the American offer raised the prospect that the Obama adminstration will cast its first ever veto in the U.N. Security Council.

[azurnoir]

27. well it will be 'interesting' to see what transpires , however I have a question

about one of your comments, if I may

"I mean think about it - how much of the PA authority's revenues is internal - that is funded through taxation, royalties, fees, etc? How much? How much comes from outside sources? In 2009 - it was 1.4 BILLION. That is a sizable chunk of change every year for a population of 2.7 million."

first do you really think that 1.2 billion is such a generous amount for 2.7 million people? Not to mention the PA is still responsible for some things in Gaza such as power and there are an additional 1.5 million people there
I do not know where you live but my state Minnesota in 2009 had a 50.8 billion dollar budget for a state with a population of 5.3 million

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Minnesota_state_budget

also do you think foreign donations would 'dry up' if a Palestinian state where to be formed? IMO they would actually increase

[shira]

9. Do you believe the PA betrayed Palestinians based on the Palestine Papers?

Do you think they offered too much?

[whosinpower]

10. I think

The palistinian papers prove without a shadow of a doubt that the whole peace process is a fraud, a fake. It is Kabuki theatre - and all the actors wear masks that hides their true intentions - and the expression on those masks change the way the light hits them.

After 40 odd years - it has become it own self fulfilling industry funded wholly by philanthropic agencies, US aid, and foreign interests.

Do I think they offered too much? Let's be clear - both sides have not been transparent and forthcoming in their deliberations to their people. Not Abbas/Erekat....and not the Israeli's either. Neither worked to prepare their people what was said in private. But, they didn't have to - because it was all fake anyways, both sides knowing, with winking eyes that the other would refuse some concession, or knowing full well that their own populaces would never agree in any referendum.

I mean think about it - how much of the PA authority's revenues is internal - that is funded through taxation, royalties, fees, etc? How much? How much comes from outside sources? In 2009 - it was 1.4 BILLION. That is a sizable chunk of change every year for a population of 2.7 million.

[shira]

12. Israeli leaders haven't been transparent and forthcoming to their people WRT peace talks?

Where do you get that?

The Palestine Papers were absolutely no surprise whatsoever to Israelis WRT the Israeli position.

[shaayecanaan]

15. Then why did you claim that they were fake?

In fact, you claimed that the prospect of the Palestine Papers being authentic was as laughable as Israelis killing Egyptians with remote controlled sharks.

Now you're claiming that the Papers are authentic (presumably) but that there is nothing of surprise or interest in them.

What happened to make you change your tune?

[shira]

16. The papers show what Olmert claimed WRT the talks was on target...

However WRT the Palestinian position what was reported was misrepresented and therefore a fabrication or hoax. For example, the false claims of the PA recognizing a Jewish state or Livni claiming she is against International Law, wanting to ethnically cleanse Israel of certain Arab villages, stating Israeli policy was to build until a Palestinian state wouldn't be viable, etc.

[shaayecanaan]

17. So they're fake to the extent that you disagree with them? (nt)

[shira]

18. I've been clear all along WRT the way al-Jazeera / Guardian has misrepresented what's there.

Their claims are fake.

[shaayecanaan]

19. No. You said that the documents were fake...

and you were unable to accept that the Palestinians, for example, were willing to allow the Israelis to keep every settlement in East Jerusalem, with the exception of Har Homa.

[shira]

20. All it takes is for just a few documents out of 1600 to be edited or mistranslated.

Riddle me this one...

If the 2 sides were as close as the papers claim (or what al-Jazeera and the Guardian claim) then why didn't Obama work from the beginning to bridge the small gaps? Why would Obama press immediately for a settlement freeze when the PA had just ceded most of them to Israel in negotiations? Didn't the USA know what was going on in these talks? It seems Obama was oblivious to PA concessions from the Palestine Papers.

Even Erekat asked....

"If our positions are as they claim, why didn't Israel agree and why we did we not reach an agreement with them?"

....clearly indicating Israel would have seriously cosidered such a proposal.


Hoax.

[shaayecanaan]

21. Again, lies...

"If the 2 sides were as close as the papers claim (or what al-Jazeera and the Guardian claim) then why didn't Obama work from the beginning to bridge the small gaps?"

They are not close, and neither al-Jazeera nor the Guardian represented them as such.

Olmert's offer sought to retain all of the significant settlements, including Ariel which is almost in the middle of the West Bank, and Maale Adumim. The Palestinians want this land returned to them.

The Geneva Initiative, which you claim to support, calls for these settlements to be vacated and the land returned to the Palestinians, as they severely impede the contiguity of the intended Palestinian state.

The reason that Obama cannot bridge the gaps is that the Netanyahu government is fundamentally unwilling to reach an agreement with the Palestinians.

[shira]

24. You must be confused...

The GI doesn't call for Maale Adumim to be vacated.

If you believe the PA offer is closer to the GI than Olmert's, then the gaps are small between the 2 sides and all that would be needed is for Obama to bridge them. So why wasn't he aware of the contents of the Palestine Papers and how much the PA 'offered'?

[shaayecanaan]

28. Actually, you're right, it doesnt....

As a person with more than a shred of intellectual honesty I feel motivated to concede that in fact I was incorrect - the GI does in fact call for Maale Adumim to be retained by the Israelis.

"then the gaps are small between the 2 sides"

No, they are not.

The following is the list of concessions that Israel would have to make under the GI plan. Currently, Israel has only indicated that it would be prepared to consent to #7 and #8. Israel refuses to concede to any of the other requirements of the Geneva Initiative.



2. Jerusalem will be divided, with Arab (Muslim and Christian) neighborhoods of East Jerusalem becoming part of the Palestinian state.

3. Temple Mount will be under Palestinian sovereignty, however, in light of the sanctity of the site and its religious and cultural significance to the Jewish people, there will be no archaeological digs or construction without the consent of both sides. The Mount would be transferred to the Palestinians 30 months after the agreement is signed.

4. A permanent international force will supervise Jerusalem's holy sites, ensuring freedom of access for visitors of all faiths. However, Jewish prayer will not be permitted on the mount.

5. The Muslim, Armenian and Christian quarters of the Old City would be Palestinian. There would be special arrangements to allow Israelis to pass through the Armenian quarter on their way to the Jewish quarter. The entire Old City would be open: the borders between the quarters would be marked, but they would not be separated by physical barriers.

6. Most of West Bank, including the settlements of Ariel, Efrat and Har Homa, all of Gaza and the Jordan Valley will be turned over to the Palestinians. Israel's withdrawal from the territories will be completed within 30 months, during which time the settlements will be dismantled, but the Israel forces will be allowed to deploy in the Jordan Valley for an additional three years.

7. Israel will transfer to Palestinians parts of the Negev adjacent to Gaza, but not including Halutza, to the Palestinians in exchange for the parts of the West Bank it will receive, including Maale Adumim and Gush Etzion.

8. Safe passage route between Gaza and West Bank will be established.

[pelsar]

23. perhaps your 'thinking" is wrong...

and not the Israeli's either. Neither worked to prepare their people what was said in private

the two cultures are NOT the same. The israeli side with an open press multiple govts both right and left have been very clear about the changes that a real agreement will bring, hence the arguments within israel about how much, where, is it worth it, etc. All of the israeli politicians make their point of what is and what is not acceptable, hence the discussion is open and public.....

the PA side of the coin?.....no public discussion of concessions, no public recognition of the various options, nothing that has prepared their own public to the concept that maybe they dont get all of E. Jerusalem, right of return, Haifa and Jaffa......

But you are right in that the discussions are nothing but a waste of time. With the PA not even willing to educate its own, engage its own about possible concessions, they don't even have their own people behind them, in fact they are simply inviting their own demise if they agree to any concession without previously educating their own society. Which kinda limits the life of any agreement that might they might even come too.

The papers whether true or not, simply clarified that point and the differences between the way the two societies work at this point