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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-14-09 12:55 AM
Original message
NY Mets embroiled in settlement flap
Controversy continued to grow in the US over a fundraiser scheduled for Saturday at the New York Mets' Citi Field stadium for the Brooklyn-based Israeli settlement group The Hebron Fund.

"The New York Mets will be facilitating activities that directly violate international law and the Obama administration's call for a freeze in settlement construction, and that actively promote racial discrimination and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes in Hebron," read a letter sent by 11 human rights organizations to the US baseball team.

"It would be a tragic irony for an event funding Israeli settlers' violent actions and discriminatory policies against Palestinians to be held at Caesars Club which, according to the Mets, 'sits directly on top of the Jackie Robinson Rotunda,' which was named 'in honor of Jackie Robinson, the… great American who broke baseball's color barrier,'" the letter added.

In its own statement, the Mets responded that "Citi Field hosts a wide range of events that reflect the diversity of our hometown and the differing views and opinions of New Yorkers. The beliefs of organizations holding events at Citi Field do not necessarily reflect those of the New York Mets."

But Abed Ayoub, representing the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, responded that tolerance for diverse beliefs "should not include facilitating events for groups that break laws, and support racism and violence... Surely the Mets would not do business with white supremacists or anti-immigrant vigilantes. The Mets should follow those same standards in dealing with The Hebron Fund, and cancel this event."


http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=239491
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-14-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like blatent financial support of international terrorism
The FBI might need to get involved, they're occasionally interested in that sort of thing.
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Fozzledick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-14-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why don't you call them up and tell them?
I'm sure they'd be fascinated with your delusions.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-14-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. There's nothing delusional about being opposed to terrorism and ethnic cleansing...
I'm not sure why you seem to think terrorists and racists should get a pass if they're Jewish...
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Okay why don't you get straight what the Hebron fund actually does before you call it terrorism.
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 04:55 AM by Kurska
" A primary goal of the organization is the raising of capital for the improvement of daily life for the residents of Hebron, Israel. This includes funding for all parks, playgrounds, recreation centers, after-school programs, libraries, and summer youth activities; as well as sponsorship of public cultural and educational events in Hebron. In addition the Fund aids the maintenance and development of the synagogues in the Machpela Cave, the ancient Avraham Avinu Synagogue and other religious institutions in the area. "

From their mission statement, I don't even see anything about actually trying to expand any currently existing jewish settlements in Hebron.

http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?for_email=1&id=416
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Any settler that advocates violence and ethnic cleansing deserves the title of terrorist....
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 05:07 AM by Violet_Crumble
And the Hebron settlers are amongst the worst, and there's no amount of whitewashing that can make them come up not stinking. Apart from anything, they are violating international law and why should I give a shit how many zillions of years anyone was there? It's not like anyone cares about Palestinian villages that were in what's now Israel...
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sorry edited my post right after I posted it to be about something else.
Didn't figure you would respond so quickly, anywho.

The Hebron fund organizes events, builds facilities and helps maintain the synagogues of the 600 strong jewish community of Hebron, a community which stretches back thousand of years, why are you falsely equating what they are doing with the obviously reprehensible actions of groups they are not funding and do not openly support?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's okay. I edited mine...
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 05:17 AM by Violet_Crumble
Tell you what. I'll support those guys when they go start doing all that nice stuff in Israel, not in territory that's under Israeli occupation...

on edit: I've just had a close look at that hebron fund site, and they admit that they support the residents (Jewish only, of course) of Hebron. Which means they do support the extremist settlers. Why on earth is any group that supports terrorism being allowed to host dinners for US sporting teams? It's absolutely absurd!
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Why is it wrong to provide social services to jews in disputed areas?
Especially to jewish communities that predate modern Israel by a couple thousand years. The Hebron jewish community has survived incredibly adversities, including outright ethnic cleansing in the 1930's and 1940's and there is zero things wrong with building them a park.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. They're funding the extremist settlers! And the West Bank isn't disputed, it's OCCUPIED...
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 05:35 AM by Violet_Crumble
Stop trying to pretend that the Jews they're funding are nice innocent folk who aren't living outside of Israel and making the lives of the Palestinian residents of Hebron an absolute misery. The extremists who are there now are NOT the same people who used to be there, and I find it a real shock that yr defending them. I thought better of you than that. Are you aware that their funds go to 'legal battles and continued struggles to keep Hebron Jewish for the Jewish people' (that's on the donate page). Surely you can see the huge problems with a group like this and why they're no better than groups like Hamas (who, btw, do lots of charity work etc to make their own people like them)...

btw, I still couldn't give a shit about the whole 'but they've been there for squillions of years!!' thing when there's absolutely zero in the way of concern when it comes to Palestinian villages in what's now Israel...
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I AM NOT supporting settlements, they are a horrid waste of time and energy for Israel
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 05:54 AM by Kurska
And the idea that anyone would be able to shift the demographics of a city with a 130,000 to 500 population balance in favor of Palestinians is delusional beyond any mark of sanity. Not only that but they are morally wrong with intents that are as cruel as they are unrealistic.

However you're using the same sort of dismissive tactics employed by people who want to whitewash out of
existence moderate arabs and the contributions of muslims to societies all over the earth. Not every member of the Jewish community of hebron are extremist vicious arab haters who want to drive them into the sea, infact the majority are very decent people who want to live in a area that has had a continuous jewish population for thousands of year (with the exception of occasional massacre).

I'm not defending settlements, I'm not even saying what the jews of hebron are doing is right, that said there is nothing wrong with building parks and maintaining holy places, even if you have a very strong disgust of who it is being built for.


On edit: I'd be VERY curious to see what this group's actual financial breakdowns are and to see how much of their money is used for what, especially before labeling them a terrorist organization.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. don't you know? all jewish settlers are extremists & no better than Hamas!
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 07:03 AM by shira
your opponent shrieks when all Palestinians are generalized as terrorists but doesn't bat an eyelid doing the same to all Jewish settlers.

:eyes:

the best is when she refuses to label the Gaza police associated with Al-Qassam Brigades and Hamas as terrorists. They're civilians. Meanwhile all Hebron Jews are terrorists.

:)

so all Hebron Jews are many times worse than Hamas warriors who double as police in Gaza - for those keeping score.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Shira, please elaborate..!
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The Hebron settlers are amongst the most extreme and violent of all...
I'm not using the broadbrush strokes I see others use on Arabs and Muslims. These aren't Israelis who have as in many other cases, moved to settlements because they're lured by the financial incentives of cheap housing. The several hundred Israeli settlers in Hebron are driven by religious nationalism, and are well-known for their violent attacks on the Palestinians of Hebron. There's a huge difference between them and the settlers you'll find in places like Ariel, because at least with the latter, while the existance of the settlement is illegal under international law, the settlers themselves aren't violent and are yr garden-variety law-abiding people who aren't planning to drive Palestinians out of the West Bank. Granted, there may be a handful of religious settlers in Hebron who aren't the violent type, but the vast majority are, and even if the Hebron Fund (which very clearly aligns itself with the goals of the violent extremists) was funding the activities and upkeep of even a small number of the extremists, that's too many for anyone to overlook. I'm sure in the US that groups that support violent extremists who are Muslim aren't let off the hook with the excuse that some of the people the group is funding aren't violent extremists. The rest are, and that's all that should matter...

While I don't know if you'd be able to get hold of this group's financial breakdowns and even if you could how above board they'd be, I can find you reports from human rights groups on the activities of the Hebron settlers if you haven't read any of that stuff about them before..
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Your insistence on equating the entire Jewish community of Hebron with terorism is beyond sickening.
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 06:14 PM by Kurska
Can you imagine the sickening feeling you would have if someone refereed to the entire population of even the most violent prone arab area in israel as terrorist and then said that building fucking parks for them is aiding terrorists.

I'm sorry of course there are bad people among the settlers of hebron and there have been terrible thing done by both sides of the Hebron community (Including the massacre of hebron's ENTITRE JEWISH POPULATION TWICE IN 100 YEARS), but I will never be willing to call the entire population of a ethnic minority in a city monsters like you are, it is a disservice to humanity and is excatly the sort of thing that has driven the blood soaked history of the holy land.

On edit: I am not calling you a anti-semite, because I know you aren't, I think you just have heard nothing positive ever about the jews of hebron and find it near impossible to humanize them.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Are you totally unaware of what sort of settlers live in Hebron? They ARE extremists!
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 06:54 PM by Violet_Crumble
It's not a matter of a few bad apples - Hebron attracts the religious-nationalist extremists and there aren't innocent settlers like the ones in Ariel living amongst them. The only 'positive' thing you showed me was a website from that Hebron Fund that announced it wanted to make Hebron totally free of Arabs. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement.

I'm not sure why you expect that if you can find a handful of people who aren't extremists, then the extremists of Hebron shouldn't be labelled as terrorists. And it really is wrong for you to call that bunch of thugs an 'ethnic minority', as though it's them who are suffering from discrimination and persecution. They're not. If you could come up with something showing me that the Hebron settlers are a bunch of innocent settlers like the ones in places like Ariel, I'd definately change my mind, but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, are violent extremist settlers...

Here's some information about the Hebron settlers that show it's not a case of a few bad apples, but the community as a whole, and that this has been going on for years now:

Hebron Time Bomb: Settlers Who Provoke

It takes thick skin to be a Jewish settler in Hebron. This is the only place in the occupied territories where Jews live in the midst of Arabs, mingling daily with their hostile neighbors. "You have to be real tough to stick it out," says an Israeli government official.


The Jews of Hebron have been proving just how tough they are since 1968, when firebrand Rabbi Moshe Levinger and his American-born wife defied the Israeli government to lead a group of compatriots into the city and establish the first Jewish settlement in the newly occupied territories. Years later, when Levinger's car was stoned on a downtown street, he opened fire, killing an innocent Palestinian shopkeeper; he served only 10 weeks in jail for the crime.

Outrages on both sides have been common. "This is the wildest place in the West Bank," says a soldier on duty in Hebron. "Trouble waits around every corner." In a Palestinian community that tends to be deeply traditional and highly religious, Hebron's settlers move among their four compounds heavily armed. Especially visible among the 450 Jewish residents are 150 students of the Shavei Hebron Yeshiva: in pairs or threes they patrol the roads connecting the settler enclaves, assault rifles slung over their shoulders. As they saunter through the streets, Arab merchants grow anxious. The yeshiva boys frequently overturn their stalls or bash their cars. "It's a daily business the trouble they make," says shopkeeper Mohamad Sharif. The settlers admit to these actions, but say they commit them only when provoked.

Recent events, though, have rattled the Jews of Hebron. It is not that they are so fearful of Palestinian reprisals for the massacre at the Tomb of the Patriarchs two weeks ago. "Terror we live with always," says settler spokesman Noam Arnon. Rather, they worry about what their own government will do to them to calm the outrage provoked by the killings. Says Shani Horowitz, a native of the Bronx who moved to Hebron 12 years ago: "The left is using this opportunity to lynch us."

Already, some of Horowitz's neighbors are on the run from police, facing detention without trial, and others are to be disarmed and barred from praying at the tomb, which is holy to both Jews and Muslims. The community's greatest fear, though, is that it will be evicted en masse, an option advocated by six of the 16 members of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's Cabinet. "It's hard to imagine that the nation would allow it," says Horowitz, "but who knows? Anything might happen now." A Rabin aide tends to agree. "The Prime Minister knows that Hebron is a time bomb. He'll have to defuse it somehow, no question about it."

The Hebron settlers feel they are being unfairly condemned for the sin of Baruch Goldstein, who came from neighboring Kiryat Arba. "What, we've all turned into bloodthirsty murderers?" says Horowitz. "We don't eat people." But they do incense them no end. Says the Rabin aide: "At least in other settlements, Jews can move around without rubbing it in the face of the Arabs. Not the Hebronites." When they chose their home, the Hebron Jews meant to trumpet their presence in the West Bank. Now the government must contemplate ejecting them to send as vocal a message.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,980306,00.html

Among the Settlers
Will they destroy Israel?
by Jeffrey Goldberg
May 31, 2004


THE ZEALOTS

On a late winter’s day, a slight, blue-eyed boy rode a bicycle down an empty street in the militant Jewish ghetto of Hebron, in the West Bank. Clipped to the boy’s hair was a green kipa, crocheted and oversized in the style of the settlers. A damp wind was blowing, and a bank of clouds hovered over the city, but the boy was jacketless. Scattered piles of rubble and garbage, flecked with broken glass, lined the road.

The buildings along what the Jews call King David Street and the Arabs call Martyrdom Street are tightly packed and decaying. The Jews live mainly on the east side of the street, and the Arabs live to the west. When I visited, much of the area was under curfew. The Jewish zone, where some Arabs live, is “sterile,” a soldier told me: only Arabs who hold the proper pass are allowed to enter. The soldier, a paratrooper in the Israeli Army’s Fighting Pioneer Youth Brigade, was guarding Hadassah House, a three-story building where several families of settlers live. A brigade of soldiers, coils of razor wire, and hundreds of concrete barriers stand between Hebron’s fewer than eight hundred Jewish settlers and its hundred and fifty thousand Arab residents.

Across from Hadassah House is a school for Arab girls, called Córdoba, after the once-Muslim Spanish city. On one of its doors someone had drawn a blue Star of David. On another door a yellowing bumper sticker read, “Dr. Goldstein Cures the Ills of Israel.” The reference is to Baruch Goldstein, a physician from Brooklyn, who, in 1994, killed twenty-nine Muslims when they were praying in the Tomb of the Patriarchs, just down the road. Across the closed door of a Palestinian shop someone had written, in English, “Arabs Are Sand Niggers.”

Jewish invective is answered by Muslim insults; over another door was a hand-painted verse from the Koran, attesting to the undying perfidy of the Jews. Nearby, peeling off a wall, was a poster dedicated to a ten-month-old Jewish girl named Shalhevet Pass, who was shot through the head three years ago by a Palestinian sniper. “May God Avenge Her Blood,” it read. Pass’s father is in jail in Israel; last July, the police found eight bricks of explosives in the trunk of his car.

A group of yeshiva students appeared, walking in the direction of the Tomb of the Patriarchs, a two-thousand-year-old stone palace. It sits atop the cave in which, tradition holds, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their wives are buried. It is because of the tomb that Hebron is considered a holy city. The yeshiva boys wore flannel shirts and jeans. They had the wispy beards of young men who have never shaved.

Two Arab girls, their heads covered by scarves, books clutched to their chests, left the Córdoba School, and were walking toward the yeshiva boys.

“Cunts!” one of the boys yelled, in Arabic.

“Do you let your brothers fuck you?” another one yelled. I stopped one of the students and asked why he was cursing the girls. He was red-faced, and his black hair was covered with a blue knit skullcap.

“What are you, a goy?” he asked.

The girls fled down the street, and the boys disappeared. I asked the soldier guarding Hadassah House why he hadn’t intervened. “They didn’t hurt them,” he said.

The boy on the bicycle circled toward me and asked what I was doing there. I told him that I was waiting for a woman named Anat Cohen. He said that she was his mother, and that she had just gone to the market. Then he pedalled away, toward barricades at the end of the street.

Cohen pulled up a few minutes later, in a station wagon, its windshield cracked from stone-throwing attacks. She is one of the leaders of the Hebron Jews. A short woman in her early forties, she had a taut, windburned face and muscular arms, and her fingernails were chewed and dirty. As we walked through her front door, into a stone-walled living room, I asked her how she could let her son play amid the barbed wire and soldiers and barricades, and with snipers in the hills above.

“Hebron is ours,” she said. “Why shouldn’t he play?”

“Because he could get killed,” I said.

“There’s a bullet out there for each one of us,” she said. “But you can always die. At least his death here would sanctify God’s name.”

Cohen and other settlers say that they are obliged to fulfill God’s command that Jews settle the land of Israel. But there are safer places to live than King David Street in Hebron. I asked Cohen how she reconciled her decision to settle here with an even greater imperative of Judaism, the saving of lives—in this case, those of her children.

She glared at me. “Hellenizers”—secular Jews—“will never understand,” she said with contempt.

Anat Cohen is known, even among Hebron’s Jews, who are some of the least placatory of all the settlers, for her ferocity. According to Army commanders, she has cursed and insulted soldiers, and assaulted Arabs. The first time we met, she told me that she was a soldier of God.

Cohen has about ten children—like certain religious Jews, she refused to specify the number, in order to confuse the evil eye. The Cohen house is cramped and dark, and there are few toys. On one wall hangs a framed photograph of Meir Kahane, the zealot rabbi from Brooklyn, who advocated the expulsion of all Arabs from Israel. Behind a stone pillar hangs a photograph of Baruch Goldstein, with the inscription “The Saint Dr. Goldstein.” A candle burned in a makeshift shrine, in memory of Cohen’s brother, Gilad Zar. He was the security chief of the settlements in Samaria, the territory of the northern West Bank. He was killed three years ago by terrorists.

Read more of the article here: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/05/31/040531fa_fact2_a





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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I've never been so aware of the level of speration between Hebron settlers and the arabs of Hebron.
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 08:28 PM by Kurska
Which is indeed very very sad... although those article make it sound like the hostility between the two is ripe on both sides and if the IDF withdrew the Hebron jews would be massacred, which atleast nominally explains their militancy.

That.. is a very strange situation... I'll try to learn more about it.

I'm still not prepared to call every jew living in Hebron a terrorist.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-14-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Actually, here is the contact info to do just that. They're being flooded with calls and emails.
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bstender Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. terrorism is only what the enemy engages in
You and your allies engage in "defense of society" much like the afghani mujahadin funded by the US were "freedom fighters", back.then, now theyre terrorists.

"The "material support statute," as it is commonly referred to, was enacted in 1996 as part of the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act. That statute recognizes that money is fungible, and that money in the hands of a terrorist organization — even if for so called charitable purposes — supports that organization’s overall terrorist objectives."

black is white, up is down, war is peace
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. Peace activists say beaten by settlers
Two foreigners accompany Palestinian family to village in South Mount Hebron as part of Christian Peace Group, claim they were assaulted by settlers near outpost

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3806889,00.html

<snip>

"Two foreign peace activists say they were assaulted by settlers Tuesday in South Mount Hebron while accompanying a Palestinian family to the village of Tuba. One of the activists was reportedly kicked in the stomach and needed medical attention. The two women, who filed a complaint with the police, had their cameras stolen as well.

"My colleague and I were with a family that was on its way home when we were harassed and assaulted by settlers," Sarah MacDonald, one of the activists, told Ynet.

MacDonald, who is hear as part of her activities with the Christian Peace Group," advised the family to travel on a different route because, according to her, many settlers travel on that route.

"They chose to take the long way home, and we went with them. We crossed the hills south of Havat Maon when we saw four settlers on the ridge above us, about 50 meters (yards) away. They stood between the outpost and us. When we kept walking, they started to run after us."

"The Palestinian man said to them, 'We just want to go home.' Then the settler pushed him, and the Palestinian boy started to cry. My friend, Laura Chigi, tried to separate the settler and the Palestinian, but the settler pushed her," added MacDonald.

"They kicked Laura's ribs after she had fallen to the ground, and they injured her. They also managed to steal our cameras that were in action throughout the entire incident. They moment they did this, they left in the direction of Havat Maon."


Palestinians return home, harassed by settlers

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3806866,00.html

Residents of Khirbet Bir al-'Idd in Hebron area forced to leave their homes 10 years ago following repeated attacks by settlers. Last week, families return with IDF approval but are harassed again

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