Palestinian Authority’s Future Is in Question

[groovedaddy]

RAMALLAH, West Bank — The collapse of the Palestinian Authority, Israel’s negotiating partner, was raised as a possibility on Monday, as several aides to its president, Mahmoud Abbas, said that he intended to resign and forecast that others would follow.

“I think he is realizing that he came all this way with the peace process in order to create a Palestinian state, but he sees no state coming,” Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian peace negotiator, said in an interview. “So he really doesn’t think there is a need to be president or to have an Authority. This is not about who is going to replace him. This is about our leaving our posts. You think anybody will stay after he leaves?”

Mr. Abbas warned last week that he would not participate in Palestinian elections he called for, to take place in January. But he has threatened several times before to resign, and many viewed this latest step as a ploy by a Hamlet-like leader upset over Israeli and American policy. Many also noted that the vote might not actually be held, given the Palestinian political fracture and the unwillingness of Hamas, which controls Gaza, to participate.

In the days since, however, his colleagues have come to believe that he is not bluffing. If that is the case, they say, the Palestinian Authority, which administers Palestinian affairs in the occupied West Bank and serves as a principal actor in peace negotiations with Israel, could be endangered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/world/middleeast/10mideast.html?th&emc=th

[IndianaGreen]

1. Perhaps the Palestinians will be better off without the PA

Why continue with this charade called the peace proces?

[The Magistrate]

2. By All Means, Ma'am, Let Us Press On With The Process Of War

That will be best for all concerned, certainly....

"All we are saying is give war a chance!"

[Alamuti Lotus]

4. As opposed to now?

[proteus_lives]

16. "Why continue with this charade called the peace proces?"

So you're advocating that Palestinians return to self-defeating terrorist attacks in the WB? Look how well that's working out in Gaza.

[Alamuti Lotus]

3. "O my brothers, am I cruel? But I say: what is falling, we should still push."

"And he whom you cannot teach to fly, teach to fall faster!"

[oberliner]

5. An oblique Israel-Nazi comparison?

Or is that a stretch?

[Violet_Crumble]

6. I vote for a predictable and rather silly stretch! n/t

[Alamuti Lotus]

7. Remarkably bad stretch, particularly in the Age of Google

[oberliner]

8. The Age of Google has nothing to do with anything

You chose a Nietzsche quote for some reason. I am wondering what it might have been. Nothing in "The Age of Google" can help a person ascertain what is going on in the mind of someone who chooses a quote from this particular philosopher in relation to this particular situation.

I would note that Germany tends to be your "go-to country" for wit and wisdom relating to Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. What's really stretching it now is to have issues with people quoting Nietzsche...

People quote Nietzsche and he's quoted a hell of a lot....

Quoting a German does not mean someone is making Nazi comparisons when it comes to Israel. Also, there's plenty of actual Nazi comparisons that go on in this forum that you overlook because it's 'supporters' of Israel making the comparison and they're making it to Arabs, not Israel, and I would note that you appear to have no problems at all with those sorts of Nazi comparisons :)

[Alamuti Lotus]

12. It would take a clone of yourself to be further from the point here

There is so much wrong with this reply that I must take each little bit in turn.

You chose a Nietzsche quote for some reason. I am wondering what it might have been.

Not only that, but one of my favourite and most useful quotes, in fact. Reference Zarathustra ptIII, "On Old & New Tablets" Verse 20. A secondary quote is taken from the same section, Verse 12. The entire section is relevant and really quite wonderful.

Nothing in "The Age of Google" can help a person ascertain what is going on in the mind of someone who chooses a quote from this particular philosopher in relation to this particular situation.

Fair enough. However, that is where "context" and "reflection" fit in; the piece was relating to the uncertain future of the Palestinian Authority. Not sure if you have noticed this or not, but I am not a fan of this institution. The section relates to the precarious position of contemporary failing institutions; LET THEM FAIL, SUCH IS DESERVED is the conclusion to be drawn. There are a couple remaining phrases from the section that I should add to elaborate this point:
"Do you know the voluptuous delight which rolls stones into deep depths?"
In other words, it is actually a good thing when people or things get what they deserve; allowing rotten carcases to fall by the wayside allows for stronger forces to tread the path they had been blocking.

The final sentence, "And he whom you cannot teach to fly, teach to fall faster!" is a poignant commentary on the entire subject and really shouldn't need to be explained. That is one of the most brilliant lines ever penned. In context, they have had their chance to shine, ample resources and backing from the mighty superpowers (***), but prefer to hide in the shadow of their weakness and exist merely as an enforcement of an unacceptable status quo. Those who cannot figure things out after such indeed deserve to sink like a stone.

(***) another quote here comes to mind: "Verily, not that you have served a prince--what do princes matter now?!--or that you become a bulwark for what stands that it might stand more firmly. Not that your tribe has become courtly at court and that you have learned, like a flamingo, to stand for long hours in a colorful costume in shallow ponds--for the ability to stand is meritorious among courtiers..."

This is obvious, but I see that the obvious needs assistance. Though they are presented as such, service to a status quo and the 'princes' who leech from it are not actually values to be celebrated. In fact generally service to such matters routinely entails horrific deeds that betray every decent virtue, such as can be witnessed on a regular basis in context.

I would note that Germany tends to be your "go-to country" for wit and wisdom relating to Israel.

Once again, so much wrong with such a small statement--well done there! First, has there really been such a trend? I have quoted identifiably German sources or philosophers predominantly before? Really?

Secondly, this matter relates very little to "Israel" itself (though it shows where your interest in basic comprehension ends and where knee-jerk reactionary instincts take over), but is rather a statement on the Palestian Authority. So your little "Alamuti Lotus is a secret Nazi who hates the Jews! Jew Flu! Run!" line you're trying to insinuate is just silly even as far as these things go. And these things are usually really quite silly, so that's a dismal achievement that no pride should be drawn from.

Thirdly, Nietzsche just rolled over in his crazy little grave at being referred to as a generic German. He tended to hate Germans and in later years imagined himself to be a Polish Jew in origin. Well, not the really later-later years when his imagination was really quite interesting and rather unhinged, but rather the later-saneish years as his visceral hatred for Bismark and the early anti-Semites grew strong.

[oberliner]

13. Thank you for your thoughtful reply

I appreciate your taking the time to do so.

[Alamuti Lotus]

15. really shameless kick, though not entirely without new substance

Scampered out of my hidey-hole and put far too much geniune effort into that for it to be so unceremoniously ignored on a single pass only. This is a sad replay of the "what Palestinian leaders do I support" fiasco (also a quite long and involved reply, also rather quietly passed into obscurity after much flawless blackout-drunken effort--which surprised me the next morning, as I had no memory whatsoever of making that reply).

"Verily, not that you have served a prince--what do princes matter now?!--or that you become a bulwark for what stands that it might stand more firmly. Not that your tribe has become courtly at court and that you have learned, like a flamingo, to stand for long hours in a colorful costume in shallow ponds--for the ability to stand is meritorious among courtiers..."

These nauseous values--still passed off as virtues! Nietzsche is often denegrated among leftists as a reactionary or elitist philosopher, but I should emphasize such remarks as I quote here as of great value. This is not to say that he was not elitist and generally anti-popular in nature, but his refrain of a revaluation of 'modern values' rests nicely enough alongside the establishment of new revolutionary values to sweep aside the decadent waste that now suffocates most of this world through the established order of powers. Not many besides myself find a comfortable 'marriage' between the likes of Nietzsche, Trotsky, Khomeini, Bakunin, and Shariati as I have. Nor do I expect more, but that's beside the point.....

[IndianaGreen]

9. There are valid comparisons between Israel and the Nazis...up to a point

and a big point it is: Kristallnacht!

Kristallnacht marks the beginning of the Holocaust, which for those that have forgotten, was the systematic extermination of Jews from Germany and Europe.

Prior to Kristallnacht, indeed prior to Hitler coming to power, there were many acts of violence by the nazis against Jews and other groups they viewed as undesirables. There were also de jure acts by the German authorities which denied and/or restricted human rights of Jews and others.

[oberliner]

14. Do you believe there has been another Kristallnacht?

If so, do you think it marks the beginning of the systematic extermination of a group of people by Israel?

[Scurrilous]

10. Abbas repeats demand for Jewish settlements freeze

Palestinian president uses fifth anniversary of Arafat's death to demand halt on construction before talks with Israel

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/11/abbas-calls-for-settlement-halt

<snip>

"Mahmoud Abbas today underlined the stark reality of the stalemate in the Middle East peace process by again demanding a complete halt to settlement building in the West Bank before talks with Israel can resume.

The Palestinian president used the fifth anniversary of the death of Yasser Arafat, his predecessor, to warn that he would not return to negotiations unless Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, changed tack. Netanyahu has promised to exercise "restraint" on settlements but snubbed Barack Obama by insisting that "natural growth" in existing Jewish outposts will continue. Abbas said that too must end, as must Israel's exclusion of east Jerusalem, which the Palestinians want as their future capital, from the scope of any peace deal.

Speaking at Arafat's tomb in the Muqata compound in Ramallah – the headquarters of the Palestinian Authority – Abbas was urged by thousands of cheering supporters of his Fatah movement not to make good on his threat to step down at the forthcoming Palestinian elections.

His announcement last week was widely interpreted as an attempt to exert pressure on Israel and the US to meet minimum Palestinian conditions for talks. If he does leave the political scene then the peace process, which is already in severe crisis, would effectively be dead. Robert Serry, the UN envoy in the region, called the threat a "wake up call."