Mofaz proposes talks with Hamas to help forge temporary Palestinian state

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"MK Shaul Mofaz, Kadima's second-in-command and avowed contender for the main opposition party's leadership, dropped a political bombshell yesterday by saying he would be willing to conduct diplomatic negotiations with Hamas.

At a press conference to unveil his new diplomatic platform, whose main element is establishing a Palestinian state with temporary borders on 60 percent of the West Bank within a year, he was asked whether he would agree to negotiate with Hamas.

Mofaz, who is considered the leader of Kadima's right flank, said he would "if Hamas chooses and wants to sit at the negotiating table. Because at that moment, it would effectively accept the Quartet's conditions and would no longer be Hamas. I think the State of Israel must sit with any party that changes its agenda, and I believe a responsible leader should sit with Hamas if that organization changes its agenda."

The Quartet, comprised of the United States, United Nations, European Union and Russia, has conditioned contacts with Hamas on it agreeing to recognize Israel, renounce terror and accept previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements."

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[azurnoir]

1. wow such a generous offer a whole 60%

but Hamas will not negotiate simply unbelievable :sarcasm:

[sabbat hunter]

3. notice he does say

temporary borders.

More telling is that Hamas said that they do not negotiate with "the zionist enemy"

[azurnoir]

4. Why is Mofaz only interested in talking to Hamas?

and I believe Buddha said something about temporary things this IMO is "political yoga"

[oberliner]

5. Because that is who Israel refuses to talk to?

They are talking to the Fatah-led leadership, but not the Hamas-led leadership in Gaza.

[azurnoir]

6. Secondly does Mofaz have the political power

for any such negotiations to have any meaning? He is Kadma's second in command and right now Kadima is not running the country its kind of like Eric Cantor offering to negotiate with Iran on behalf of the US

[oberliner]

7. Maybe read the article?

He is saying if he had the authority to do so, he would negotiate with Hamas. Or at least consider it. Yes, you think this is or would be a good idea or no you do not think so?

[azurnoir]

8. Yes I read the article my comment was rhetorical

however it also is why I called this "political yoga" in my first comment under completely different conditions and without we'll hold 40% of the WB as a "good faith" gesture or whatever yes I think it would be good idea for Hamas and Israel to negotiate

[oberliner]

9. Well thanks for that then

I agree with you completely pretty much on everything that you said.

[azurnoir]

10. your very welcome

perhaps I should have said Alan Keyes rather than Eric Cantor it would be more fitting of postitions

[oberliner]

11. I think Mofaz has more pull than Alan Keyes

At least I would hope so!

[Ken Burch]

21. Then again, the "zionist enemy" is equally adamant not negotiating with Hamas

So there's moral equivalence on that one, smart guy.

[sabbat hunter]

24. he said he would negotiate with hamas

and hamas turns around and says they do not negotiate with "the zionist enemy". That is a HUGE difference.

[The Magistrate]

2. Interesting, Sir, That A Prominent Figure Thinks This Politically Feasible In Israel Now

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. The PA puppets should have quit a decade ago! nt

[The Magistrate]

13. You Know, Ma'am, If You Tried Hard, You Could Manage To Say Something Even More Beside The Point

Take a deep breath, focus, let it all go blank, and it will come....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. It is the point. The bankrupt peace process should have been halted in 2000.

At long last someone is saying "enough."

No need to be nasty. It doesn't become you.

[The Magistrate]

18. Oh, By All Means, Ma'am: Let us Press On War, And War And War And War Forevermore....

None of that nasty peace stuff, no indeed! There must be complete and absolute victory for the holy righteous cause, from the river to the sea!

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. That is hardly my point.

By withdrawing from the faux process, we quit wasting precious time following a trail that anyone with 2 brain cells can see is going nowhere.

Abbas' threat to truly quit woke some people up.

It's unfortunate that you chose to go after me personally.

[The Magistrate]

22. Of Course It Is Your Point, Ma'am: You Post Too Much Praise Of 'Struggle' For It To Be Otherwise

The course which has led nowhere is precisely the course you glorify and promote.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

23. You, Sir, Are Talking Out of Your Ass.

The only struggle I regularly praise is nonviolent protest in Palestine, as well as international boycotts, sanctions and divestment. The only leaders I praise are those who call for nonviolent resistance, namely Mustafa Barghouti.

The current leadership in the US and Israel have no interested in a meaningful peace. I advocate getting off the carousel, working to achieve national unity, creating a rule of law and national institutions that will support the ongoing rule of law.

[The Magistrate]

26. Some People, Ma'am, Would Not Know Non-Violence If It Bounced A Rock Off Their Skull

Consistent support for maximalist demands and violent factions cannot be described as support for 'non-violence', and is in fact agitation for war to the end of victory.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

27. I think my time spent living under Israeli occupation in the WB and Gaza more than qualifies me

to have a very clear opinion on how to oppose a violent military occupation.

And frankly, I never made ANY demands, believing it's up to Palestinians to negotiate. I've never advocated for anything more than '67 borders, East Jerusalem as the capital of thes state, with negotiated settlements for refugees' claims. Married to a refugee, I've stated here that we have NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER to return to Isdud (Ashdod) and would never pursue our claim.

Given Israel's course, that 2-state seems increasingly unlikely. If there is to be one state, then human rights and democracy should be conferred upon all under Israel's dominion, not only Jewish Israelis.

So, Magistrate, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll be happy to accept your apology for mischaracterizing my position.

[The Magistrate]

28. Your Comments Here Over The Years Speak For Themselves, Ma'am

So long as you continue to provide the struggliciousness which is your chief contribution here, your interest will continue to be clear to all.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. Struggle on! Long live Filasteen, baby! nt

[Violet_Crumble]

14. It's a pretty wise move on his part...there's no harm in trying to talk..

If it goes belly-up, then they can't say they didn't try their hardest. Also, I was just thinking that this might be a move that Nutty himself should embrace, as he's insisting the Palestinians should be willing to negotiate without preconditions when it comes to the continued expansion of settlements. It comes across as just a bit hypocritical to refuse to negotiate with Hamas because it hasn't met Israel's preconditions, while turning round and insisting that the Palestinians are wrong to set conditions before talking to the Israeli govt...

[The Magistrate]

17. As Indicated Above, Ma'am

What interests me most in this is that a politician in Israel of some standing in the center-right, and so presumably of at least some skill in the trade, considers this a course which might advance the prospects of himself and his party. That is new, and may bode well for the future.

[Scurrilous]

15. Kadima warms to Mofaz plan for Hamas talks, despite Livni opposition

<snip>

"Kadima chairwoman Tzipi Livni on Tuesday slammed party rival Shaul Mofaz' plan to open negotiations with Hamas in order to push forth the establishment of a Palestinian state, saying the concept ran contrary to their faction's political platform.

While Livni would prefer to ignore the initiative of her number 2, however, she will not be able to avoid the issue for very long, as Kadima MKs are demanding a serious discussion of Mofaz's proposal.

Mofaz has already asked Livni to hold a discussion on his proposal to establish a Palestinian state - with temporary borders on 60 percent of the West Bank - within a year. He dropped another bombshell by saying he would also be willing to negotiate with Hamas, as long as the organization agrees to the Quartet's conditions and changes its agenda."

<snip>

"In the meantime, Mofaz has already met with U.S. Ambassador to Israel James B. Cunningham and laid out his proposals - in the hope they will find their way to the U.S. administration and even President Barack Obama. Mofaz will travel to the United States next Monday and try to advance his initiative with members of Congress and others.

Mofaz's plan, announced on Sunday, is gathering support in Kadima, partly because it presents the party as an opposition with initiative.

However, his initiative will get in Livni's way, as she supports the Annapolis process. Still, senior Kadima MKs say Livni will have no choice but to discuss the proposal."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1126938.html

[bemildred]

19. But Nuttyahoo is doing such a good job.

How could anyone want "change"?

(:sarcasm:)

[excess_3]

25. Palestinian independence, Nov.15, 1988

good enough for about 100 countries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

[Scurrilous]

30. Haaretz poll: 57% of Israelis support plan to talk to Hamas

<snip>

"In a few words, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner was able to encapsulate the political situation in Israel: "There is no more peace camp." New survey numbers appear to prove him right.

Nine months after the elections, the left has evaporated and the right has only grown stronger, probably stronger than ever. The Labor Party and its leadership continue to sink lower and lower, but the general public is actually exhibiting intellectual flexibility and political moderation: the majority, including most of the Likud voters, support negotiations with Hamas, if it relinquishes terrorism and recognizes Israel.

These are the main conclusion for a special survey carried out during the past days on behalf of Haaretz and Dialog, under the guidance of Professor Camil Fuchs of the Department of Statistics at Tel Aviv University.

The survey shows the impressive rising strength of the right and a serious shrinking of the center and the left. The balance in the current Knesset stands at 65 seats for the right and 55 for the center and the left parties, but if elections were held today , the current survey suggests that the right would garner 72 seats to 48 for the center and left.

During the nine months since the elections, the equivalent of seven seats in the Knesset have moved to the right from the left-center. Kadima is retaining its strength, but Labor is crashing and it is on its way to disappearing from the political scene.

The flow of power is as follows: Labor is losing seats to Kadima, which is losing seats to Likud, which is sending seats further to the right. But Likud is also increasing its strength by some 20 percent, which counts for six seats in parliament, and it has held on to those numbers, since the election."

<snip>

"The attitude of Israelis to Hamas, a terrorist organization that still holds Gilad Shalit, is quite pragmatic. It turns out that the majority of the public - 57% - supports the view of MK Shaul Mofaz of Kadima, who published a plan earlier this week, in which he called for dialogue with Hamas under certain conditions. Inside Kadima the idea has tremendous support by some 72 percent of the party's voters.

But even 53 percent of Likud supporters back the idea. The left is breaking apart and Likud is moving to the center. It seems that Mofaz knew that he was marching on solid political ground when he included this radical article in his plan."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127911.html