Israel rejects US call to halt Jerusalem project

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Israel on Sunday rejected a U.S. demand to suspend a planned housing project in east Jerusalem, threatening to further complicate an unusually tense standoff with its strongest ally over settlement construction.

Israeli officials said the country's ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, was summoned to the State Department over the weekend and told that a project made up of 20 apartments developed by an American millionaire should not go ahead.

Settlements built on captured lands claimed by the Palestinians have emerged as a major sticking point in relations between Israel and the Obama administration because of their potential to disrupt Mideast peacemaking.

Although Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently yielded to heavy U.S. pressure to endorse the establishment of a Palestinian state, he has resisted American demands for an immediate freeze on settlement expansion.

On Sunday, Netanyahu told his Cabinet there would be no limits on Jewish construction anywhere in "unified Jerusalem."

"We cannot accept the fact that Jews wouldn't be entitled to live and buy anywhere in Jerusalem," Netanyahu declared, calling Israeli sovereignty over the entire city "indisputable."

more

[MarjorieG]

1. As much US private dollars with misplaced ideas for Israel causing problems.

sp.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Other articles covering this

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443844574&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132459

Some AP based ones (article comments are always interesting to read)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/07/19/2009-07-19_israel_rejects_us_demand_to_suspend_jerusalem_housing_project.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/07/18/international/i214414D28.DTL

A study of Jerusalem demographics (note the source)
http://www.jcpa.org/text/shragai_last2.pdf

[shira]

3. jews commanded not to build in the jewish quarter of the old city of jerusalem

sounds reasonable. :eyes:

this is bound to go over well.

[IndianaGreen]

4. I suppose you believe there is such a thing as a GAWD that gave you that land

God is everything, man is nothing, says religion. But out of that nothing God has created a kingdom so despotic, so tyrannical, so cruel, so terribly exacting that naught but gloom and tears and blood have ruled the world since gods began.

-- Emma Goldman

[shira]

5. you think it's reasonable to tell jews not to build in the jewish quarter of the old city?

[IndianaGreen]

6. The land doesn't belong to you!

East Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians, not to Israel.

[shira]

7. why? b/c Jordan ethnically cleansed Jews out of J'lem in 1948?

whatever - you made your point clear.

You believe it's a reasonable demand.

[IndianaGreen]

8. Oh please, you should be the last person to point fingers on ethnic cleansing!

Israel hands are not clean!

[shira]

9. so make your case: why shouldn't jews build in the jewish quarter of the old city?

you think it's reasonable to uphold Jordan's ethnic cleansing of Jews between 1948-67 and therefore deny Jews any rights or claims to that area?

might as well ban Jews again from areas like the Western Wall?

simply stating "it is not their land" is absurd, considering it WAS also their land prior to 1948 - and oh yeah BTW - this puts to rest your claim the propaganda that Israel was so strong in 1948 - they couldn't even defend the Jewish quarter.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Jews can build if allowed by Palestinian state whose capital will be East Jerusalem

It is Israel that has no rights over East Jerusalem, or over the entirety of Judea and Samaria.

As to your penchant for playing the old and tired "we are the eternal victims," that crap won't ever fly again, and you got Israel's actions in Gaza and Lebanon to thank for.

[shira]

11. ok, thanks for the enlightenment

i'm sure jews terrorized the past few decades appreciate their non-victim status by you.....if only thousands more jews were killed the past decade, only then could they claim 'victim' status by warm and fuzzy people like yourself.

They should apologize for not slashing their own throats. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

12. Stop using the Holocaust as justification for everything Israel does

It smacks of Bush using 9-11 to justify his crimes, and it does an injustice to the victims of the Nazis.

[shira]

13. when did I use the holocaust for justification?

[IndianaGreen]

14. and spare us the Talmudic circular logic

that's old as well.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[IndianaGreen]

27. Fact, Israel has rejected American proposal

Fact, you guys took Israel's side over the American side on this dispute.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Fact. It doesn't matter.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. OMG, to see you of all people play the my country right or wrong card is hysterical

Did your position change with the administration? You certainly did not try that tact while the prior administration was in office.

[Sezu]

38. I thought America was gonna STOP making other

sovereign countries do stuff once Obama got in. Wassup with dat?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Ahhh, there is no Palestinian state to ask

The property owner in question has been trying to get permits for 20 years and just got them.

Do not forget what happens to a Palestinian who sells land to a Jew...

[IndianaGreen]

29. Israelis on Occupied Palestine are squatters and thieves

their deeds to the land were obtained by duress and subterfuge.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Not all. It was common for residents to buy and sell property to each other until it became a

capital offense for Palestinians to sell to Jews. There were also expropriation done by Jordan when they controlled part of the city.

[Liberation Angel]

42. Just like you are on "Native American" soil

even the name says it is not yours: Indiana.

But not so many "Indians" there these days I imagine.

But realistically my point is this:

the US is no better. Our whole land base was stolen and we are therefore squatters and thieves too.

Pot calling the kettle black etc.


To strike out like this at Israelis is imho pretty close to hyperbolic **********. The language is unnecessary and inflammatory.

But I respect your right to that opinion.


The reason is that not all Israelis support what is happening. many were born into the conflict and live where they live and can do nothing about it.

There are small minorities of power elites responsible for this.

So blaming "Israelis" is like blaming Obama for slavery because his mother was an anglo.

If you do not want to sound like a bigot try narrowing your critique to the real criminals: those fascists who support and supported a policy of genocide against all Semites (Jews and Palestinians) and who keep stoking the fires of war there.

Don' stoke them yourself. It is what the bigots and warmongers want.

[azurnoir]

37. Please give us the name of the Jewish Quarter

that the hotel is being built in.

[azurnoir]

40. do not want answer? lets take a look

the name would be Shimon Hatzadik


Moving into East Jerusalem

shoe-horned into the slopes of Sheikh Jarah, an Arab neighborhood in East Jerusalem, is the newer Jewish enclave Shimon Hatzadik, or Simon the Righteous.

The 40 Israeli residents, guarded by a privately hired gunman, may soon have more compatriots just around the bend if the Shepherd's Hotel, a forlorn, century-old building, is demolished and replaced with 90 housing units, as planned.

The Israelis, aided by ultranationalist groups that buy up Arab properties and by the tacit support of the government, see themselves as pioneers. But Palestinians see them as settlers - and the European Union, soon to release a controversial report attacking "the construction and expansion of illegal settlements, by private entities and the Israeli government, in and around East Jerusalem" - appears to agree.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1202/p06s02-wome.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Denying the historical facts does not make them go away

Jordan forced Jews and others out of Jerusalem, some off of land they had owned for generations

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Actually the land in question belong to an American

[IndianaGreen]

24. A rightwinger no doubt

the land lies in East Jerusalem, no?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. Nobody is contesting his title. It was an old hotel

[Liberation Angel]

39. East Jerusalem is NOT the Jewish quarter of the Old City, it is east of the Old City

I hesitate to get into this but I have been to Jerusalem and as far as I could see East Jerusalem was almost all Israeli Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. It is part of the West Bank and thus the hotler is NOT in the Jewish Quarter.

While it is an aggressive act, I did appreciate Netanyahu's statement (even if it was kind of unrealistic BS) that Plaestinians can own land in Israel not on the west bank or gaza (which is true - there are many Palestinians and arabs who live in Israel NOT on the west bank, but new construction for them is much less possibe

West Jerusalem was mostly all Jewish.

The Old City is today shared by Jews, Palestinians and Christians altho the israelis police it for the most part.

Have any of you even BEEN there and have any idea what it is like on the ground?

It IS like apartheid in many respects (especially the wall) BUT at the same time the vast majority of people coexist in neighboring segregated neighborhoods as neighbors. There are also mixed communities (even a kibbutz or two).

The development of the hotel is, to me, a slap in the face of peace. It is very bad policy. It keeps the war going which keeps Netanyahu in power.

Does anyone remember that Netanyahu was the Bush go between on the Iran arms for hostages deal? He worked for the Jonathan Institute (named for his brother who died at Entebbe during the raid).

He SOLD weapons to the Iranians to help Bush get elected.
The war with the Palestinians KEEPS him in power (fear is the biggest motivator in the post traumatic society in Israel).

The Palestinians mke a great Nazi boogeyman the same way Osama was for Bush and made it possibe for him to get away with mass murder.

It is BS, but not the worst thing that could happen.

[proteus_lives]

15. Bah, neither side should have it.

The Palestinian claim is no more valid then the Jewish one. Make it an international city, maybe the UN could finally do something worthwhile in the I/P situation.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Return the entire land to the original Canaanites and their descendants

their gods were more fun!

[proteus_lives]

18. You saying gods were fun???

I thought to you the only acceptable god was Marx.

[IndianaGreen]

26. pagan gods were more tolerant than the monotheistic ones

on principle we should reject any religion or gods that claim to the one true faith or god.

Marx is not a god, and neither was Jesus.

[proteus_lives]

33. Marx "wasn't" a god.

Remember, he's as dead as his ideology.

Pagan gods weren't always nicer, do you recall the Aztecs and their sacrifices of thousands? The big 3 have bloodier runs simply because they have lasted longer.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. That was the Jack Ryan solution in one of Tom Clancy's novels

Seemed like a pretty good idea back then too

[proteus_lives]

34. Really?

I stopped at Patriot Games and Red October. Didn't Ryan become president in the Clancyverse?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. Some where along the way...

I think it was in Sum of All Fears, but its too late for me to go and find it. I want to recall it was an open city with 3 religious leaders to run it, Muslim, Orthodox and Catholic run it. Don't remember much else.

[azurnoir]

36. Slouching toward Sheikh Jarrah

From Netanyahu's point of view, there is no bargain more kosher. Every Jew knows Jerusalem is an inseparable part of the state of Israel. Just like Washington is for Americans. How does U.S. President Obama dare interfere at all in decisions relating to the sovereign territory of the state of Israel?

Netanyahu knows Jerusalem is a winning card for his constituency. And indeed is there another issue over which there is broader and more powerful a consensus among the people of Israel?
But the prime minister also knows there is no more tried and true remedy to block a diplomatic initiative on the Palestinian track than new construction plans in East Jerusalem. In his first term as prime minister, Netanyahu supported the plan of then Jerusalem mayor Ehud Olmert to establish the Har Homa neighborhood in the southeast part of the city. The result was a crisis in relations with the Palestinians.

The failed attempt by the Clinton administration to foil the plan critically damaged trust on the part of Yasser Arafat and other Arab leaders in the willingness and/or ability of the United States to twist Israel's arm and bring us back to Oslo.

Netanyahu has enlisted the Shepherd Hotel issue to ratchet up his campaign against U.S. President Obama and his followers. He is again counting on short collective memories and relying on "understandings" between the administration of George W. Bush and Sharon and Olmert.

Who knows that, contrary to the spirit of Netanyahu's words, a Jew from Brooklyn is entitled to buy land in the East Jerusalem Arab neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, but a Palestinian born in Sheikh Jarrah is not entitled to buy an apartment in the Jewish neighborhood of Har Homa? The Israel Lands Administration enters into contracts only with Israeli citizens or with those who are entitled to citizenship under the Law of Return.

Who remembers that President Bush signed onto 16 suspensions - one every six months - of the 1995 law related to moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?

From the standpoint of his administration as well, there wasn't a difference in principle between building a Jewish neighborhood in Sheikh Jarrah and establishing an outpost outside the West Bank settlement of Itamar. They are all occupied territory.

Who has heard that, following protest by the previous U.S. administration over the expansion of construction in Har Homa, Olmert announced that he had barred members of the cabinet to advance construction plans in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem, without his personal approval?

Declarations and facts on the ground are two separate things. Olmert bequeathed Netanyahu a large number of plans and even scaffolding in East Jerusalem.

In December 2007, a week after the launch of final status talks regarding the West Bank and East Jerusalem at the Annapolis conference, the Israel Lands Administration published a request for bids for 307 new housing units in Har Homa, and there were other similar bids to follow in East Jerusalem. And recently, the district planning and construction committee in Jerusalem approved construction of a hotel on the outskirts of the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Wadi Joz, adjacent to the walls of the Old City - a project of the municipality of Jerusalem itself.

The municipality is also one of the owners of land in a neighborhood for the Jewish religious public currently being established in the Arab al-Sawahira neighborhood in the southeast of the city. And there are many other examples.

The Ir Amim organization, which encourages coexistence in Jerusalem between Jews and Arabs notes that these plans, though lacking statutory status, serve as a basis for demolition of Palestinian homes in these areas and for scuttling building plans by Palestinians there. At the same time, the Jerusalem Municipality and the Housing and Construction Ministry lend a hand and even provide assurances to right-wing organizations which declare their intention to make the Old City and the more extensive Holy Basin more Jewish.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101387.html

[Liberation Angel]

41. And this is from an Israeli writer in an Israeli paper. Good catch

And once again this is not in OLD Jerusalem which is already a shared city (Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs as well as Christians) but EAST of the old city which is essentially Palestine (West Bank) still.

I have been in this neighborhood and seen the conflict from close up.

This is, as this Israeli made clear, a political move by Netanyahu to shore up his right wing support and to hose Obama. (As well as keep the land grab going.

Every piece of earth which belongs to the Palestinian side which is built on becomes a bargaining chip for Netanyahu to get more and more concessions.

But Netanyahu is willing to allow more deaths of Israelis to occur to keep him on top. Palestinians too.

This move is just more provocation for the masters of war.