Victims forever

[DogPoundPup]

A new study of Jewish Israelis shows that most accept the 'official version' of the history of the conflict with the Palestinians. Is it any wonder, then, that the same public also buys the establishment explanation of the operation in Gaza?

A pioneering research study dealing with Israeli Jews' memory of the conflict with the Arabs, from its inception to the present, came into the world together with the war in Gaza. The sweeping support for Operation Cast Lead confirmed the main diagnosis that arises from the study, conducted by Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the world's leading political psychologists, and Rafi Nets-Zehngut, a doctoral student: Israeli Jews' consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians and insensitivity to their suffering. The fighting in Gaza dashed the little hope Bar-Tal had left - that this public would exchange the drums of war for the cooing of doves.

"Most of the nation retains a simplistic collective memory of the conflict, a black-and-white memory that portrays us in a very positive light and the Arabs in a very negative one," says the professor from Tel Aviv University. This memory, along with the ethos of the conflict and collective emotions such as fear, hatred and anger, turns into a psycho-social infrastructure of the kind experienced by nations that have been involved in a long-term violent conflict. This infrastructure gives rise to the culture of conflict in which we and the Palestinians are deeply immersed, fanning the flames and preventing progress toward peace. Bar-Tal claims that in such a situation, it is hard even to imagine a possibility that the two nations will be capable of overcoming the psychological obstacles without outside help.

snip~
Bar-Tal emphasizes that the Israeli awareness of reality was also forged in the context of Palestinian violence against Israeli citizens, but relies primarily on prolonged indoctrination that is based on ignorance and even nurtures it. In his opinion, an analysis of the present situation indicates that with the exception of a small minority, which is capable of looking at the past with an open mind, the general public is not interested in knowing what Israel did in Gaza for many years; how the disengagement was carried out and why, or what its outcome was for the Palestinians; why Hamas came to power in democratic elections; how many people were killed in Gaza from the disengagement until the start of the recent war; and whether it was possible to extend the recent cease-fire or even who violated it first.

entire article: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060061.html

[biopowertoday]

1. "public is not interested in knowing what Israel did in Gaza for many years;"

so nothing will change.

[Idealism]

2. Intriguing article and results

It saddens me how many people are ignorant of history, even their own country's past. I am not surprised at this, however, as most Americans suffer from the same lack of knowledge and unquestioning belief of events.

Among the same Jewish public, 40 percent are unaware that at the end of the 19th century, the Arabs were an absolute majority among the inhabitants of the Land of Israel. Over half of respondents replied that in the United Nations partition plan, which was rejected by the Arabs, the Arabs received an equal or larger part of the territory of the Land of Israel, relative to their numbers; 26.6 percent did not know that the plan offered the 1.3 million Arabs a smaller part of the territory (44 percent) than was offered to 600,000 Jews (55 percent).

It is important to know that this isn't just an Israeli problem, too. The Palestinians are afflicted by this same disease.

Bar-Tal says he takes no comfort in the knowledge that Palestinian collective memory suffers from similar ills, and that it is also in need of a profound change - a change that would help future generations on both sides to regard one another in a more balanced, and mainly a more humane manner. This process took many decades for the French and the Germans, and for the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland. When will it finally begin here, too?

[Vegasaurus]

6. You can revisit or revise history until you are blue in the face

and it won't do a thing to help the Palestinians get a state.

This is the part that people seem to forget as they are lamenting the past.

No matter how you feel about the formation of Israel, it is here, and ain't going anywhere.

The Palestinians and their supporters seem to feel that there can be something gained by thinking otherwise.

It's all wasted effort.

Instead, the effort should be put into the Palestininan factions finding unity, and eventually developing their own state.

All this crying about the past, trying to go back, pretending that a "single state" is the answer, is just a waste of time.

You can't turn back the clock, and the Palestinians and their supporters need to realize that they may have lost their best chances.

Time to seize what they have and make a state.

It's better than the alternative of another 60 years of misery and suffering.

[Idealism]

7. You are missing the point, Ma'am

This article was written to show that when people do not understand history, it is easy to be apathetic to those who you believed initially wronged you. It is harder to view your opposition as inhuman when you realize that they have more of a claim to the land you live on than you. This poll is about the cognitive dissidence of an entire population, many of which believe that they were given their land by an act of God, or other fanciful tales.

I don't think I have ever advocated for a dissolution of Israel, and I believe that the two can coexist side by side, if both cultures would give up their militant tendencies.

[Vegasaurus]

8. You are really wrong

if you think the "entire population" believes they were given the land by "fanciful tales".

You don't know Israelis (do you?) or are basing your impressions on nothing more than media portrayal of settlers.

No one is "apathetic" to the history of the region either, at least among the mainstream.

But wanting to harm those that you initially believe wronged you, kill them, take back all the land, is a fantasy.

It isn't going to happen, and keeps the Palestinians in perpetual misery and suffering.

Anyone who is anxious to have their situation improve should realize that by promoting the tales of wrong, and desire for retribution, they are only prolonging the suffering.

I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

[Scurrilous]

3. Kick

:kick:

[Igel]

4. The set-up in 1968 was about perfect.

Gaza historically was usually part of Egypt.

The rest of the Palestine Mandate was partitioned roughly as it should have been, IMHO. The difference in population, in economy, in traditions between the easternmost parts of Cis-Jordan and the westernmost parts of Trans-Jordan was nonexistent.

The percentages for the '48 partition only hold if the previous partition is excluded. I'm not clear on why Trans-Jordan was so neatly partitioned off, leaving Cis-Jordan to be partitioned in such a messy manner. (The messiness of *that* partition makes sense, given Jewish settlement patterns. The reason for the non-proportionality of the partition also makes sense if you focus not on what was but on what was expected. Plans for in the present sometimes do actually take into account what's expected to occur, not just what has occurred.)

[Turborama]

5. Here's a historical documentary that shows what happened in 1920 with original footage

1920 - The year the Arabs discovered Palestine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWn9Va4G4b8">Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knlGgS19Nlw">Part 2

It's quite fascinating seeing the original footage and listening to actual participants, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

From the info section on the right of the videos:

The Sultan of Turkey conquered Palestine for his Ottoman Empire in 1517. For the next four hundred years, the Turks ruled Palestine as part of an administrative area called Greater Syria - which was to become the countries of Palestine, Syria and Lebanon in the twentieth century. Although Palestine was not a precisely defined geographic area until that time, the people of Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, Gaza and Nablus and the peasants in the surrounding countryside used the term Filastin or Palestine to describe their land.

On July 2, 1919, the General Syrian Congress, meeting in Damascus, unanimously condemned the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Balfour Declaration, and the plans of the Zionists. They put a pointed question to the Great Powers: The Congress denounced the mandate system. It demanded that Greater Syria become one united and independent nation. As the resolutions became known, people demonstrated throughout Syria, Palestine and Lebanon in support of the Congress.

(edit to fix typo)