Gaza rockets hit southern Israel - Israeli TV

[Adsos Letter]

18 Jan 2009 07:04:34 GMT
Source: Reuters

JERUSALEM, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Palestinian rockets fired from the Gaza Strip hit the southern Israeli town of Sderot on Sunday, the first such attack since a unilateral Israeli ceasefire went into effect, Channel 10 television reported.

Seconds after Israel Radio announced that a rocket alarm had sounded in Sderot, a Channel 10 reporter in the town said he heard two explosions. Channel Two television said six rockets had been fired at southern Israel.

Earlier, Israeli forces and Palestinian militants waged a brief gun battle in the Gaza Strip, the Israeli military and Hamas sources said. Hamas has rejected the ceasefire, saying it would continue fighting as long as Israeli troops remained in the territory. (Writing by Jeffrey Heller, Editing by Ori Lewis)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LI217002.htm

[Chulanowa]

1. Gosh, nobody could have predicted!

"Hamas has rejected the ceasefire, saying it would continue fighting as long as Israeli troops remained in the territory."

Fucking duh, who the fuck cooked this stupid "ceasefire" up? Oh, right, shitfucks in Tel Aviv and fuckwits in Washington.

Edited to add, FUCK! 'cause four just wasn't enough to convey the message properly

[The Magistrate]

3. At This Point, Sir, The Onus For Continuing Violence Is On Hamas

[Chulanowa]

12. Afraid not

Because at this point, Israel is still occupying Gaza, and has declared that violence or not, they will be staying there until Olmert decides they won't. So long as the IDF remains in Gaza, it is perpetrating an act of violence against the people of Gaza, same as any other occupying force.

If the IDF were pulling out of Gaza, then yes, I would agree with you - It would fall on Hamas to keep or break the peace. Since that is not the case however, and the IDF has declared an indefinite stay in Gaza, then the onus still falls on Israeli forces for the continued violence - sorry, more accurately the onus falls on Israeli politicians, since it's not the guys in combat making these calls, after all.

[The Magistrate]

14. Not Really, Sir

This is one of the points that will separate out those who are interested in an end to killing from those who are committed to backing 'struggle'. In the largest theater of popular opinion, the former will greatly outnumber the latter. Violence by Hamas cannot possibly eject the Israei forces, so continued violence by Hamas at this point is wholly gratuitous, and engaged in solely in the hope of keeping up the killing of Arab Palestinias by Israeli forces. The Israelis will need to exercise restraint for the thing to work, but a disciplined regular force ought to be capable of that.

[Chulanowa]

25. Hamas' plan is to force Israel to kill more innocents?

Roll that around in your head a bit, hell, say it a few times. You seem like a smart fellow, even if I believe you to be wrong, and I think you can catch the failure of logic in that sentence...

For the benefit of the many I/P posters who couldn't find "logic" with a map and a whole squad of Sherpas, however, I'll go ahead and fill you in.

If Hamas' goal is to see lots of Palestinians killed as you state, then they are simply exploiting what the Israeli forces were going to do anyway. How hard must it be for Israeli forces to decide to not bomb a neighborhood or mortar a school or whatever, knowing it'll play into Hamas' plan? Israel is the attacking force, and are clearly the ones holding all the damn power. It's their call whether or not a bunch of Palestinians die, isn't it? If they don't want Hamas to exploit those deaths, then the obvious answer is to not kill those people in the first place, isn't it? Now, you can argue such exploitation is sickening, and I'd agree. I have this huge hangup about respectful treatment of the dead and all. Religious stuff. Even with that being so, I would not find the exploitation more disgusting than the initial killing.

For the rest of your argument... every occupation engenders violence, futile or not. It took a while for Japan and German resistance forces to finally be subdued, and that was even with the assistance of the local governments.

Hamas may not be able to out-gun Israel (even if Hamas fighters could shoot worth a shit) but history shows their chances of the occupation ending as a result of their resistance to be rather high - rare is the locally-supported resistance force that doesn't ultimately see its goal accomplished. Why do you think Israel has been constantly trying to turn Gazans against Hamas?

On the other hand, the ability of a capitulated people to throw out their occupiers is pretty low. Ask the Tibetans about that one.

[The Magistrate]

31. Entice Would Be a Better Word, Sir

Nor is it my view that Israel would be, or has been, wise to play into their opponent's hand.

But do not decieve yourself for a moment that that is not the hand being played by Hamas.

Good natured people have real difficulties understanding the actions and motivations of their ruthless cousins....

[Chulanowa]

44. Obvious Israel is, or it wouldn't be a concern

And yes, I already acknowledged the exploitation of Israel's massacres. As we've both covered, Hamas can't really hurt Israel with weapons - but simply showing video of what Israel is doing in Gaza has done a fine job of wounding Israel's international relations. I don't like it - but I can't blame them for taking advantage of the situation.

Don't for a minute think that Hamas is behind all those dead Palestinians. Again, Israel is the one doing th killing, and if they wanted fewer bodies, they could easily reduce the number to zero.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Step outside of the morality discussion for a moment

And you will better be able to understand The Magistrate's argument. He is saying that Hamas is treating the Palestinian people as expendable. It's not about whether or not that is more or less reprehensible than what Israel is doing it's about the fact that that is Hamas' strategy.

Far too much Israel/Palestine discussion is about condemning one side or the other. I wish we could have a serious analytical discussion or two on this forum once in a while.

[azurnoir]

38. Sir there is a question that has not been asked here

Does Hamas even have a functioning government as such at the moment? I know we hear about this or that leader in Damascus or Egypt saying "________" and there is Haniyeh and entourage in a bunker somewhere in Gaza but when it comes to fighters on the street so to speak is there anyone really in charge anymore? If indeed Israel has done as thorough a job as claimed then there is a possibility that there is not.

[The Magistrate]

42. That May Well Be The Case, Ma'am

Though my inclination is to doubt Israel has done sufficient damage that the group cannot function while not being actively shot over. There probably is considerable indiscipline in the ranks, though; that seems to be the case even in normal times, and will have to be allowed for in coming days. One thing which must be got away from is the effective ceding of veto power over progress to the hottest heads on the other side that each party's leadership seems to grant....

[Hippo_Tron]

70. Very good point azurnoir

And I'm not a Middle East expert so I don't really have a good answer for you. But it's a valid question as to whether or not Hamas actually has a solid top-down hierarchy at this point.

[Hippo_Tron]

71. Magistrate, I have one possible counter-argument to that

I just finished reading Victor Cha and David Kang's book on North Korea. Although Cha is the hawkish one of the two authors, I find his argument to be compelling and perhaps applicable to this situation.

Cha basically argues that North Korea may eventually provoke war with United States and South Korea because it situation is so desperate that going to war with a country it has an extremely high probability of losing is still a better option than maintaining the status quo or a future outcome should they not go to war.

In other words, perhaps Hamas believes that Israel is genuinely interested in removing all of the Palestinians from Gaza and thus it is better to attack Israel rather than to sit back and do nothing. I'm not saying it's likely that this is the calculation they have made but it is possible. It would certainly be more of a legitimate fear should Netanyahu become Prime Minister again. I truly believe that guy's followers would like to drive the Palestinians into the sea if they had the option.

[The Magistrate]

72. That Is An interesting Line Of Thought, Sir

If one looks at the matter from an Arab Palestinian's point of view, there is a good deal in history and in present practice eminently suited to support the belief that the end goal of Israel is to evict Arab Palestinians from the land en toto. The more radically inclined an Arab Palestinian is, the greater the appeal of this as an organizing theory for available facts must be. Once one has settled on an organizing theory, the way facts are selected for notice and weighted for importance will tend to solidify it, and raise it to a status of uncontested, and uncontestable, truth. So it seems to me to be quite likely that many adherents of Hamas are animated by just that belief, and feel convinced to a moral certainty they are acting in self defense for their people from a condition of extremis. This is one reason it seems to me to be of ultimate importance for Israel, on the strictest grounds of its own security interests, to adopt policies that can undercut this view, and make it active work to hold it. There will be a portion of people for whom this view is already so strongly held that they will never let it go, but certainly there are many others who do not hold it so strongly and could be convinced to discard it, and others who could be prevented from ever taking it up.

Ascription of motive to an enemy is a business fraught with psychic peril. What one ascribes to an enemy can reveal a great deal about oneself. Sometimes it is one's own 'night side' that one ascribes to the enemy as its motivation; what you secretly desire to do to your enemy, but do not admit to harboring in yourself, becomes what you proclaim to be the goal of your foe. Sometimes the degree of enmity towards you that you ascribe to your enemy is an unadmitted recognition of what you know, deep down, is exactly what you yourself would feel were you in your enemy's place, and looking at you and what you do. Both sides of this conflict show signs both these all too human mechanisms are, shall we say, in good working order....

[bemildred]

73. "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

I've considered that, one could well decide that provoking a crisis is better than slow strangulation. There is plenty of historical precedent. Unlike most cases, the besieging forces do not want to capture the besieged city, which makes it a little weird; but that might make the "provoke a crisis" idea better, not worse. And let's face it, the only chance Gaza has is to attract outside help somehow, or to undercut Israel's outside help somehow.

[cboy4]

35. Oh please. Israel could pack its bags and move out the

Middle East, and you'd still find some excuse to defend Hamas' reign of terror.

Sounds like you'd rather the IDF continue handing your side its ass on a platter.

How twisted.

[Chulanowa]

46. Would I, now?

What I'm doing is stating the obvious - Continued occupation of Gaza will result in continued violence in Gaza. It's not rocket science (no pun intended). I know this. Most of the posters here - yourself excluded - know this, and I'm rather certain Israel knows it, too. This makes this "cease-fire" a PR sham.

If I wanted the IDF to hand "my side" their asses, then wouldn't I actually be in favor of a continued occupation? I think you're confused here, since it's clearly you wanting that ass-kicking.

And let's be honest... If Israel packed its bags and left the middle east, well then, wouldn't that "reign of terror" have been successful? I mean so far it's seemed extraordinarily UN-successful, but if Israel did what Hamas wants (sort of like it's apparently doing in Gaza at the moment) when wouldn't Hamas be the victor in the situation?

...You didn't think very hard before typing up this reply did you?

[cboy4]

47. No, you're hysterical and need to breathe into a paper sack.

Here's my position.

1. Cease fire. NO ROCKETS FROM GAZA, NO MISSILES FROM ISRAEL.

2. Next step: Find a way for civilians in Gaza to live humanitarily (food, clean water, sewage system, kids going to school, people running their businesses .. overall non-terror-related prosperity.)

I recognize the way things have been set up over the years is not a good situation, fuels Palestinian anger and has to change if there's to be peace.)

HOWEVER,

3. Hamas, in exchange, must STOP rocketing Israel, and get it through its thick heads that it has to recognize Israel. Non negotiable.

By the way, if you're not in favor of "continued occupation," yet fire rockets at Israel after a cease fire, you are absolutely inviting the IDF to hand your/Hamas' ass on a platter.

So there you have it.

I think Israel needs to come to realize it has to make changes in order to secure future peace.

But so does Hamas. Sadly, you don't sound like you're interested in negotiating changes that will save the lives of Palestinian children.

How sad. This is why I'm the peacemaker.


ON EDIT: TYPO

[Chulanowa]

48. I don't think you're very aware of any of my positions

In fact from this post and the last one, it looks to me like you didn't bother reading my statements and instead have decided to make some serious knee-jerk assumptions based on the fact that I'm not giving unconditional support to Israel here.

1. Cease fire. NO ROCKETS FROM GAZA, NO MISSILES FROM ISRAEL.
2. Next step: Find a way for civilians in Gaza to live humanitarily (food, clean water, sewage system, kids going to school, people running their businesses .. overall non-terror-related prosperity.)
3. Hamas, in exchange, must STOP rocketing Israel

These three positions were actually part of the June 19th agreement between Hamas and Israel. Hamas DID cease fire from Gaza, and went after groups who didn't. Israel did not open the border crossings for food, water, and himanitarian aid, and on November 4th, lobbed some missiles into Gaza, and on November 5th, bombed tunnels in southern Gaza that were being used to get around Israel's border blockade.

"and get it through its thick heads that it has to recognize Israel." - Certainly, as soon as Israel recognizes Palestine and the elected legitimacy of Hamas.

I'm very much in favor of both sides taking all sorts of changes in the interests of both Israeli and Palestinian peoples - Children or not. However as I'm not someone able to make policy, and am something of a cynic, I can say with pretty good certainty that these changes will not likely be made from either side - and demanding one side change while hte other doesn't is asinine

[cboy4]

49. Whatever happened before this bombing episode is

irrelavant in the sense that I believe both sides need to adjust their behavior and their view about future peace.

Israel has to say, alright, we're going to continue to get hit by grad missiles if we don't do things different.

Hamas has to say, alright, Israel will continue to demolish Gaza and kill off our people if we don't do things different.

That's what I'm saying.

What's done is done in the past.

Now is the time to for change.

Things will not work if the status quo resumes.

[Chulanowa]

50. I absolutely agree

"Things will not work if the status quo resumes." pretty much sums up the entire problem.

Which is why I'm one of those crazies that think a single-state solution should be seriously looked at.

[ConsAreLiars]

13. That transparent apologism is morally bankrupt..

You expect those who have been invaded, had their land stolen, their homes bulldozed, their people driven into exile or forced into concentration camps or blockaded and denied even the right to have a viable economy and forced to live on aid shipments, had those aid shipments blockaded, and even their water supply cut off, you expect them to never fight back? The sickness of those who slaughter thousands and thousands, and then get all uppity and indignant when those they have murdered and stolen from for 60 years show any sign of being a bit pissed off -- well, it is as sick as anything the last 8 years here has demonstrated. Which side would you have endorsed, based on that kind of value system, in other wars of conquest? Oh, never mind, I already know.

[The Magistrate]

15. A Simple Question, Sir

Do you want people to be killed at the rates common over the last few days, or do you want that to end.

How you view continued military operations by Hamas at this point answers the question.

Personally, my preference is for less dead people....

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. Apparently answering that question in a way that

suggests that Palestinians are human was against the rules and the discussion that followed got deleted. Sorry.

(edit to add a bit)

[cboy4]

36. You do have your militant talking points memorized well.

I'll give you that.

But it's sickening.

[Howardx]

37. no more sickening

than your support for the israeli death machine.

[cboy4]

39. That's not disagreeing with me.

Why would you shoot rockets after the IDF is finally having mercy on you.

But I guess you'd rather bury more children. :puke:

[Idealism]

51. Your arguments will be made moot as soon as Olmert orders another assassination

The status quo in this series of events is thus:

Israel assassinates a Palestinian leader
Palestinian extremist groups vow eternal retaliation, yada yada, Israel will cease to be, yada yada
Suicide bombers-o-plenty
Israel completely blockades the region
Unable to kill Israeli's by suicide bombers, they lob rockets-o-plenty in Israel
Eventually Israel gets fed up with rockets and decides to kill a few thousand to prove the point that they can.

Rinse, repeat.

[cboy4]

53. Uh huh......so now you're a psychic.....how about answering

my post Miss Cleo.

[Idealism]

55. Direct one to me and I would be happy to

I interjected in your conversation.

[cboy4]

56. All you've done is post talking points.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x250202#250596

[Idealism]

57. I wasn't involved in this thread till 30 minutes ago..

But all i do is post talking points?

Do you know why Hamas (or any other extremist group) launched rockets into Israel in the first place?

[cboy4]

60. Yea. Because they're mad at themselves for not smuggling

in enough food and medicine with all of the Grad milliles they smuggle in.

So they get frustrated and fire at Israel, not caring that the IDF will transform Gaza into rubble and kill hundreds of innocent children.

There's your answer.

[Idealism]

61. They fire rockets into Israel because they are mad at themselves?

[cboy4]

63. Don't play games with me halo experiment.

I already explained Israel needs to change the way it does business in regard to Palestine.

The reason Hamas attacks Israel is it's blockaded and refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

You might ask Egypt why it doesn't allow the free flow of Palestinians in and out of Gaza.

[Idealism]

64. Egypts' role in this has been particularly offensive to the Arab world

I understand full well why the Rafah border crossing stays closed, and why Palestinians are shot on sight if they try to cross it. Do you know why?

Hamas attacks Israel for the perceived injustice they have endured from Israel's government and their military, the blockade is a definite park of it, but there is much more that doesn't get discussed often.

Think of it like this: If a group calling themselves the Teletubbies assassinated Secretary of State nominee Hilary Clinton, would you get angry? Would the United States government, President-Elect Obama, and our military perhaps get upset?

Now, imagine for a second being a member of the Teletubbies. Would you expect retribution? Of course you would.

This is similar to what has happened in this conflict since the 1990s. It is a pattern of violence that is all-too familiar to those who have chronicled the past transgressions of Israeli's and Palestinian's.

[cboy4]

66. No halo. While I concede Israel needs to come up with a long-

term solution to hopefully help end the rocket attacks, I don't condone thousands and thousands of missiles since the early 2000's being fired to the west, threatening the lives of innocent Israelis.

And I think it's sick Hamas .. in its twisted, disgusting, and unrealistic "strategy" of terrorizing and trying to get rid of Israel, continues to put the lives of its children in danger.

You're really living on Neptune.

Hamas has to stop.

Israel has to stop.

And then someone needs to broker a deal.

However, if Hamas cannot accept Israel as the state it is, there's not much hope, and they should probably (at the expense of hundreds of childen), expect the IDF to hand Hamas' ass to Hamas on a big fat platter.

Hamas has a choice. But they love fucking things up.

You know, much like it does with the tunnels. Hamas never, even runs out of Grad missiles, but food and medicine apparently is about as common as a pretty unicorn.

[Idealism]

67. They may have already ran out of Grad missiles

They can make Qassam-1's, 2's, and 3's inside of Gaza, but Grads must be imported from Iran or Lebanon. They may have already ran out, or are close to running out, of their stockpile of Grads. They have been saving them it seems for years.

I don't know why you think I am living in a fairy tale. I am very much for the hostilities ending, but I have seen this cycle before. There may be a 6 month cease-fire to come of this, but it won't be observed long because it won't solve any problems. Israel will make no concessions, especially after what they think is striking a crippling blow to Hamas. Hamas will act stupidly defiant and keep launching rockets, giving Israel all the justification they could ever need to go kill more Palestinians.

Israel has violated more than one cease-fire in the past, it isn't only the Palestinians doing this. Both sides need to shift their ideology, but I don't see Israel doing that nor do I see the militant wing of Hamas giving up power to their social wing. It is a literal quagmire and I see no real solutions coming from this. The Palestinians will continue to be oppressed and occupied, and predictably will lash out at their oppressors, meaning there will always be 'Hamas' or another organization similar in their goals. It deeply saddens me, the civilians caught in the middle of both their elected leaders follies.

[cboy4]

68. There has to be someone in this world who is brilliant

enough to get both sides to come together, and put an end to the status quo.

Neither the Israeli nor Palestinian side has the answer(s).

Certainly lobbing missiles deep into Israeli territory does not one thing.

It doesn't intimidate the government .. all it does is piss them off.

And then they hit Gaza with an overwhelming amount of smart bombs.

So what happens? The Palestinian public pays the devastating price.

But at least you sound reasonable, in the sense Hamas acts stupidly defiant.

[Idealism]

74. Perhaps our President-Elect can do it

You need an honest broker that can bend both sides arms, with an international effort to ensure the compromise reached actually gets enforced. It will be very, very tough but I think it can be done but it hinges upon Israel making sacrifices more than Hamas, which would take quite leadership from Mr. Obama.

[JeffR]

17. True enough

but with Hamas being constrained by a heavily armed, impeccably equipped occupying force (with the backing of what is described as "the last superpower" even if it has probably already lost that title through grotesque mismanagement of affairs both foreign and domestic for decades now).

Hamas's move to make, yes, but they're sitting on a powderkeg that could easily ignite whether they want it to or not. Israel filled up that powderkeg by not leaving these lands after the Six Day War; that at least should be a given to anyone by now. By deliberate but wrongheaded policy, they set in motion a chain reaction played out over generations now. Either the principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Geneva Convention matter, or they don't.

The mortal antipathies that the two lopsidedly warring sides hold for one another cannot ever be resolved by violence, but both sides have become inured to seeing the world as an arena of violence, and gone a long way toward making it so. Whatever moral suasion might remain to America and its (bitterly disillusioned about America) European allies, it's on them to finally put a stop to this. It's barbaric, and it will never and can never be solved by honest brokerage merely between the active combatants because, sadly, both sides have adopted the evasion of honesty as an inevitable tactic of war.

[The Magistrate]

19. We Would Seem To Be Largely In Agreement Here, Sir

You have put the matter fairly and well, paricularly in your closing paragraph, which bears repeating:

"The mortal antipathies that the two lopsidedly warring sides hold for one another cannot ever be resolved by violence, but both sides have become inured to seeing the world as an arena of violence, and gone a long way toward making it so. Whatever moral suasion might remain to America and its (bitterly disillusioned about America) European allies, it's on them to finally put a stop to this. It's barbaric, and it will never and can never be solved by honest brokerage merely between the active combatants because, sadly, both sides have adopted the evasion of honesty as an inevitable tactic of war."

[JeffR]

23. The burden on Hamas now might be too much for them.

The notion of Hamas being really capable of functioning as a governing political party amid such volatility seems a little difficult to credit. No government propaganda is needed anymore to rouse the people of Gaza to resistance.

Out of all this, Pentagon psychologists couldn't have devised a better model for our self-evidently phony War on Terror.

Meanwhile, the bigger players in the game of world roulette are milling around trying to kill time until Obama is inaugurated and they can get some measure of what he wants and what he will do to make it happen.

[The Magistrate]

29. It Might Be, Sir

But sometimes people have to step up, and live up to their pretensions, and Hamas is in that situation now. Israel needs to step up, too. Its leaders need to find the wisdom to realize that the course they have adopted towards the Arab Palestinian people is a failure, and that is against their own interests, and especially harmful their own people's security, to frustrate and deprive the Arab Palestinian people.

[Vegasaurus]

41. Hamas is capable of nothing but rogue militancy, roving gangs and terrorism

I'd like to see them act like a real government, for the people.

The so far, have not shown any indication that they have a clue about anything about governing, and only about violence, and sadly, the innocents suffer.

[Idealism]

52. You should read more into what Hamas is

They aren't all terrorists wielding AK-47s. They weren't elected on the "Death to Israel" and "Let the IDF invade Gaza" platform. Please, for the sake of not looking like someone blatantly racist against Arabs, read more.

[Alamuti Lotus]

58. Bots cannot read, silly

they can only run scripts.

"They don't get happy, don't get sad -- they just run programs!" -- sorry, was channeling Short Circuit for a moment there.

[Idealism]

59. Honda didn't come out with the Emo-Bot yet?

Those Japs are falling down on the job!

[Alamuti Lotus]

20. What an odd concept

A day or two ago, Israel hit yet another school. Today they say 'game over' and that's supposed to mean something definitive? Not that I'm a fan of more business as usual (and that's all this has been), but a little too much credibility given where it has simply not been earned.

[The Magistrate]

21. What Is Not Odd, Sir?

It remains the case that the Israeli government has ordered its soldiers to halt in place and conduct no ofensive operations, and reply only in direct self-defense. If the other side does not behave in a reciprocal manner, than they bear the onus for futher violence, since it is abundantly clear they could have avoided it.

People who wish the killing to halt should have little difficulty understanding what occurs.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Hamas made the choice to continue fighting. It will take a couple of days to withdraw

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Actually Egypt and the EU

[Chulanowa]

27. Whoever, it's irrelevant

Egypt and the EU are not belligerent parties in this conflict, are they? If Hamas is not a party to the cease-fire agreement (and they weren't) then it's just fucking asinine to claim it applies to them. It'd be the same if it were Hamas making the cease-fire agreement with Egypt and the EU and leaving Israel to flap in the wind

[Sanctified]

6. Well do you think the rocket attacks would end if Israel withdrew from Gaza?

Because I don't, I am pretty sure the second Israel withdraws Hamas will declare it a victory for themselves and a humiliating defeat for Israel.

[Chulanowa]

16. I think a withdrawal has a better chance than an occupation, yes

Slim, but present - After all, Hamas did keep the cease-fire between June 19 and November 4th, and even went after those groups who kept shooting - groups who, it might be noted, were politically aligned against Hamas, such as the Al-Aqsa Martyr's brigade (aligned with Fatah) amd Islamic Jihad.

By attempting this stunt, Israel's kind of already admitted defeat.
- As a PR move, it's Israel acknowledging that it's image in the rest of the world is fucked, and is now trying to redefine the situation through advertising.
- From a military angle, it's basically a statement that the offensive in Gaza is harder than anticipated and that it'd be really nice if Hamas would sit down for a few days and let the IDF secure its positions.

Let Hamas declare it a victory. Can the Middle East Machismo Masochism already, who gives a flying fuck if Hamas feels like its dick is bigger? Hell, that may actually help the situation by making them more ameniable to cutting a deal. Granted it could also have hte opposite effect, but since Hamas is ALREADY chucking rockets anyway, giving it a try really couldn't hurt. Ah well.

Gotta prove who's chest hair is thicker, right?

[Adsos Letter]

2. BBC breaking news ticker is now reporting the rocket attack on Sderot

more info soon to follow.

EDIT: just trying to find other sources; lots of misinfo out there.

[Adsos Letter]

4. Here is more info from BBC

"Rocket fire tests Gaza ceasefire"

A volley of rockets has been fired into southern Israel from Gaza, hours after a unilateral Israeli ceasefire began.

At least four out of five rockets landed near the town of Sderot, the Israeli military said. There were no reports of casualties or damage.

It puts a strain on the ceasefire, which came into effect at 0200 (0000 GMT) after three weeks of fighting.

Israel says its troops will not pull out for now, but Hamas said it would not accept an Israeli presence in Gaza.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7835981.stm

[DogPoundPup]

8. OH, it's 4, 5 or 6 now. Oh shoot, who's counting, THAT'S NOT WHAT IS IMPORTANT

it's something else...I just can't seem to out my finger on it.

[Adsos Letter]

10. If you can't, neither can I.

[Sanctified]

11. Well they violated the ceasefire at 1. n/t

[Chulanowa]

26. You mean the cease-fire they never agreed to in the first place?

I just signed a cease-fire with myself declaring that country X must stop shooting ...Oh, those bastards broke my cease-fire!

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Sanctified]

30. One side is willing to negotiate the other is not.

One side was willing to stop the killing the other was not. One side was willing to allow safety for Palestinian children the other would rather launch rockets than protect their children.

[Chulanowa]

43. Which side are you talking about?

Israel demands that Hamas give up everything it has to negotiate with as preconditions to there even being negotiation.
Israel has decided to keep its forces in Gaza, a move that everyone involves will just result in more violence.
Israel is the side that is killing those Palestinian children in the first place.

I think you have been very confused by a large amount of propaganda. I suggest large doses of Ex-Lax

[Idealism]

65. Willing to negotiate?

Are you shitting me? Israel has been more unwilling to negotiate with Palestinians than the US has been with the Taliban.

[ohio2007]

33. lol. Don't foget the group "Islamic Jihad" that hasn't signed on to any cease fire, a wild card not

accounted for among the unaccountable groups

lol

fire rocket
wasn't us

fire rocket
wasn't us

something like that.

gotta be loose cannon collaborator in the mix

[Chulanowa]

45. Oh yes

Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade, as well as some bunch calling themselves the Badr Brigade, all chucked rockets during the cease-fire. All have political opposition to Hamas, and Hamas went after them all for their attempts to break the cease-fire.

[Alamuti Lotus]

62. that is incorrect

a number of the smaller resistance factions, PIJ/PFLP/DFLP and others, have agreed to Hamas' one week cease-fire on a trial basis.

[DogPoundPup]

7. six rockets but the A/P is saying 5, OOPS somebody is getting their

'facts' wrong.

http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=WORLD&ID=565510840825284040

Any war correspondents going to get in there anytime soon I wonder.

[Adsos Letter]

9. Not that unusual in initial reporting...

I expect it will be important to take all reports and analysis during this period with a hefty grain of salt.

[maddezmom]

32. But by Sunday morning, 10 rockets had been fired into Israel, and Palestinian fighters were engaged

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911834825963827.html

[Arrowhead2k1]

24. Unilateral ceasefires are nothing but political shams.

Everyone knows that you can't just go to war with someone, bomb the shit out of them and expect the fighting to stop the moment one party gets sick of it. No ceasefire in history has ever been held without there being an agreement between BOTH sides. Israel knows this perfectly well and they intend to use this to show how Hamas hasn't ceased their fire in order to try to turn opinion against the Palestinians and to continue to oppress them militarily for a long time to come.

[Chulanowa]

28. Succinctly put n/t

[IndianaGreen]

54. True!

I am sure that the criminal troika of Livni and the Ehud twins are waiting for the latest polling data.

[cboy4]

34. The thugs who started all of this couldn't care less how

many children have arms and legs blown off their bodies.

Hamas is a disgrace to humanity. :puke: