Iran warns Hamas not to accept Egyptian truce proposal

[Fozzledick]

By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Iran is exerting heavy pressure on Hamas not to accept the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Israel, an Egyptian government official said on Sunday.

The official told The Jerusalem Post by phone that two senior Iranian officials who visited Damascus recently warned Hamas leaders against accepting the proposal.

His remarks came as Hamas representatives met in Cairo with Egyptian Intelligence Chief Gen. Omar Suleiman and his aides to discuss ways of ending the fighting in the Gaza Strip.

...

The Egyptian official said that the two Iranian emissaries, Ali Larijani, Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, and Said Jalili of the Iranian Intelligence Service, met in the Syrian capital with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal and Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Ramadan Shallah.

"As soon as the Iranians heard about the Egyptian cease-fire initiative, they dispatched the two officials to Damascus on an urgent mission to warn the Palestinians against accepting it," the Egyptian government official told the Post.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[thewiseguy]

1. The purpose of this article: To make Iran the escapegoat when it comes to a failed truce

I do not believe a single word from that article.

[GoesTo11]

2. Good catch!

[Fozzledick]

4. I thought you beat me to it!

Wait, what?

[thewiseguy]

5. Actually I think Israel wants Hamas and Iran to come and beg them for a truce

For the time being they will make Iran their scapegoat for failed truce talks.

It is Iran's fault that we can not have a truce!!!

[Fozzledick]

8. Now that's some fast spin!

Should I check back in two minutes to see what new excuse you change this to? :rofl:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Never happen...the Hamas leader is in Damascus and has nothing to fear

[thewiseguy]

13. WTF did that have to do with my post?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. That Hamas will never ask for a truce...

The refusals by Hamas, the bombastic speeches etc are all coming from Damascus, not Gaza.

Israel has no expectation that a truce will be agreed to with Hamas leadership safe and protected, no where near any fighting.

[thewiseguy]

16. Israel should bomb Syria

That will fix things. :sarcasm:

[aquart]

17. Are you saying they got themselves out instead of the children?

[thewiseguy]

18. I believe that most Americans don't have maps and such as...

:wtf:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Actually he has been in exile for some time and clearly likes it there

Rayvan, like his Hamas peers, was a real piece of work, but at least he was in country and leading from the front.

[azurnoir]

33. So does that mean Israel has accepted the truce offers? n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Has Hamas made one since the end of the hudna

PA is willing to talk, not clear if Hamas is.

[azurnoir]

45. The PA has no place in this they are waiting the wings

hoping for the scraps

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. The PA are the representatives of the Palestinian people

Hamas did a coup in Gaza, killed opponents, and has refused to participate in elections since. The PA is recognized internationally, Hamas is not.

That aside, has Hamas entered discussions for a new hudna or ceasefire? I remember reading that if they received one that met their preconditions "it would be studied". Did not sound really hopeful even then.

[azurnoir]

53. When have there been elections since the coup?

for Hamas not to participate?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. PA had been trying to schedule them for late last year, Hamas refused to participate or allow it in

Gaza. Result is that Abbas' term has officially run out, as has all the members of the assembly. As I understand it technically there is no elected government for the PA.

I'm away from much of my reference data on this tonight...relying on memory...there is a fair amount of controversy about this. As a practical matter, an AK-47 trumps the rule of law in Gaza and the West Bank right now.

[azurnoir]

58. I believe they were supposed to be last Friday Jan 9

presumably Hamas had refused however that may have changed but at the time Hamas was distracted

[Howardx]

63. damascus or not

like all the leaders of israels opponents he needs to fear assassination.

[Idealism]

3. They are trying hard to draw Iran (and the US) into war, arent they

[Fozzledick]

6. Iran is waging war through it's proxies without putting it's own troops on the line

[thewiseguy]

7. Hamas is hardly Iran's proxy

Hamas supported Iraq's invasion of Iran. Heck they were waving Saddam's pictures two years ago in the Gaza streets.

The only thing that Hamas and Iranian government have in common is their hate for Israel.

[GoesTo11]

10. Only one thing in common

but it's a start.

[thewiseguy]

12. Hezbollah = Shiite group, Hamas = Sunni group

That is why Hamas supported the Baath regime of Saddam when they invaded Iran. Somethings will never change.

Iran will exhibit public outrage and show support for Hamas because they are a militant group against Israel, but they will never be a true proxy for Iran like Hezbollah has been.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. The sect differences submerge when its about the Little Satan

Hezbollah as been saber rattling over Gaza

[Idealism]

28. Saber rattling, at not much else.

They vehemently denied that they were involved in rockets being shot from Lebanon into Israel a few days back, and Israel seemed to agree with them.

[azurnoir]

37. And Israel gas been sabre rattling about both Iran and Lebanon

but are only willing to actually take on Gaza.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. The US may have blocked any strikes against Iran

Hezbollah is just making noise. That might change if they decide to do more rocket launching.

[azurnoir]

44. The US rules Israel? Does Obama know? n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. Strikes on Iran are beyond Israel's technical means without US support

Air tanking at a minimum

[azurnoir]

55. Not beyond Israels means at all

Israel has nukes and the means to deliver them at least to Iran, it is however beyond Israels comfort zone Iran unlike Hamas can actually strike back with near equal force causing a great deal of extreme discomfort for a great many Israels, some of whom would rather sit on their rooftops sipping pepsi and watch the war through binoculars but take on anyone who can fight back effectively?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

57. I was going with conventional air strikes approach.No evidence that Israel would go nuclear on Iran.

Iran's power projection is some what limited, and I would assume that the IAF would roll back a fair amount of that as well, if they were to attack Iran. They can not do those kind of strikes without large scale mid air refueling.

IIRC the US recently turned Israel down on a 767 tanker.

[azurnoir]

59. That was early last year that Israel got turned down for

the 767 refueling tanker, but seeing as how Israel is currently using 707's I believe even a 727 or 747 would be an upgrade

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. I think that the IAF does not have enough of them to handle a full up alpha strike

Its not so much fuel capacity but the number of hoses...

[Alamuti Lotus]

35. There was no "Hamas" during the war with Iran..

Sheikh Yassin's Mujamma was still in its embryonic/transition stages at the time of the war with Iran. After the formal declaration of Hamas in 1988 and later, they did not follow Arafat's lead in supporting Saddam in invading Kuwait or any activities later.. I am aware of token support for the Iraqi resistance in advance of and during the initial invasion ("friend of my enemy" and all that), but it is not a systemic policy. Conversely, support for the Islamic resistance factions in Palestine and Lebanon was never a policy of Saddam (he supported the anti-Syrian Lebanese President Michel Aoun and various secular Palestinian militant factions). In not supporting Saddam at this time or others, Hamas initially gained the support of Saudi-occupied Arabia and the Gulf States (filling the gap where they had previously supported the PLO), but has since fallen out of their favour; enter Iran and Syria, which makes all logical sense, considering their (occasionally) steadfast support of the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance and (occasional) public refusal to take orders from US diplomats.

At any rate, there is often prior precedent for cooperation between certain Ikwani factions and the various currents allied to the establishment of the Islamic Republic. It is primarily the takfiris (of the wahhabi/deobandi schools) that are so virulently sectarian.

[Idealism]

36. You sound like Bush trying to justify going into Iraq after Afghanistan.

Nice.

[Idealism]

9. How did I know you wouldn't be happy with leveling Gaza...

Gotta move to Iran next. What will the excuse be to invade them? Go old-school with claims of WMDs? How about claiming they have a plot to wipe Jerusalem off the map, then use the Bush Doctrine to 'defend' yourself again?

[aquart]

21. Iran: Population: 65,875,224 (July 2008 est.)

Israel: Population: 7,184,000

Major mental distortion much? I have never seen so much blithering idiocy as the belief that Israel is only waiting to march on nations ten times its size and far wealthier.

BOO! The Jews are coming to get you!

[Idealism]

24. Ask Fozzle, he seems to have plans for the IDF

[Fozzledick]

25. Better watch out, the paranoids are after you!!

I think your tin-foil hat is leaking.... :popcorn:

[Idealism]

26. You're the crazy bastard saying how Iran is behind Hamas

[ohio2007]

22. hitting hamas is hitting Iran.. and Iran can't do anything about it.

if the mullahs could, they would send their 70,000 "suicide volunteers" they have been bragging about having for months. Mullahs can't afford to fight this war of diversion ( blame a straw man for internal issues ) for ever on the home front.

Hamas is a bunch of mindless ass hats controlled by a bunch of mindless ass hat fundies.

lol, I've seen articles that *co refused to allow funding for Israel to bomb Iran.
Those articles are misinformation stories aimed to
let the mullahs drown in believing the bull shit.

btw
ever hear of the "Iran invasions" scheduled every June for the past six years ?


Thats what I'm talkinfg about.
I'm betting Obama won't continue that strategy ;)

[azurnoir]

38. So killing children in Gaza hurts Iran yeah got it n/t

[Fozzledick]

43. Defeating Hamas in Gaza humiliates Iran in the eyes of Arab governments

They would see it as a major failure and loss of influence.

[azurnoir]

46. The Arab world is afraid of Iran and Hamas small potatoes

to make an impression it would have to be Hezbollah

[Recursion]

54. I don't think the "Iran is in charge of Hamas" story gets much traction outside of the US and Israel

Possibly because it veers past mere untruth to absurdity.

[ohio2007]

62. You can say Hamas has a 'debt' of gratitude to Iran

even though you refuse to admit the political contributions came from Iran that got Hamas candidates elected, the fact is, Iran has a stake in Hamas and they are losing their investment.

The Iranians were screaming "stand up for Gaza" but the Arab world kind of said, "we really don't give a shia shit to your barking orders

Arab world doesn't think much of the Persians demanding Arabs lockstep to their orders. And the result is there isn't much Iran can do about stopping peace treaties from being signed 'under duress'

Absurd you say ?

I got yer absurd right here;
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE50B5H920090112

LOL

[HeraldSquare212]

19. "Israel warns US not to vote for ceasefire resolution"

[ohio2007]

23. "Iran warns Hamas not to accept Egyptian truce proposal" means

Hamas may have requested permission to surrender ('Stalingrad') Gaza city.

snip
"The Iranians threatened to stop weapons supplies and funding to the Palestinian factions if they agreed to a cease-fire with Israel. The Iranians want to fight Israel and the US indirectly. They are doing this through Hamas in Palestine and Hizbullah in Lebanon."

The official pointed out that the Iranians were applying "double standards" regarding the current conflict - on the one hand, they encouraged Iranian men to volunteer to fight alongside Hamas; on the other hand, Iran's spiritual leader, Ali Khamenei, told the volunteers that they would not be permitted to join the fight against Israel.

snip
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Can't hold for another week ?
Is the fueher bunker about to collapse ?

[Fozzledick]

27. I've been seeing suggestions all day that Hamas in Gaza is ready to sue for peace

due to heavy battlefield losses and large scale desertions (and that Israeli commanders in the field are pressing for a major assault due to the lack of resistance), but that Hamas' "political leadership" in Damascus has been trying to torpedo their negotiations with Egypt.

This does seem to add another major piece to the picture.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Where have you seen them? Major media is reporting the guy in Damascus

and his willingness to have everyone in Gaza die

[Fozzledick]

30. Parsing propaganda and reading between the lines of official statements

[ohio2007]

31. between the lines ( BHO comments today )

New Approach to Iran

President-elect Barack Obama says the US will take a new approach to dealings with Iran under his leadership.

Mr Obama said in a US TV interview screened on Sunday that "Iran is going to be one of our biggest challenges".



snip
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4a8_1231725492

Yes, I'm sure some will cry; "His comments were 'taken out of context' and that isn't what he meant" ;)
yeah

But on a side note,
whatever happened to that 'relief ship' from Iran that was due into Gaza saturday night ?

just wondering

[Fozzledick]

34. Too bad I can't post a picture here, he has "got this" !

In the interview, he promised "a new emphasis on respect and a new emphasis on being willing to talk, but also a clarity about what our bottom lines are."

He added he believed his administration would "move swiftly" in its new approach with Tehran.

Mr Obama had earlier said there should be no pre-conditions in discussions with the Iranian leadership.

...

"Iran is going to be one of our biggest challenges and as I said during the campaign we have a situation in which not only is Iran exporting terrorism through Hamas, through Hezbollah but they are pursuing a nuclear weapon that could potentially trigger a nuclear arms race," Mr Obama said.

Haven't seen anything new about that ship though...:tinfoilhat:

[azurnoir]

42. LOL wishful thinking he said nothing about preconditions

he reworded what he said earlier but are you hoping Obama will do what Bush would not?

[Fozzledick]

47. Huh?

You've just crossed the line from unintelligent to unintelligible. :shrug:

[azurnoir]

48. Thanks when you have something besides insults

because you have nothing else to say get back to me but if you need clarification Iwas asking if you you were hoping that Obama would do what Bush would not

[Fozzledick]

49. Actually I AM hoping that Obama will do what Bush would not:

confront them diplomatically!! (Whatever where YOU thinking of, hmmm... :evilgrin: )

One thing I do agree with the Iranians on: Bush's failure to talk to them directly was a clear sign of weakness.

But I think Obama has a solid understanding of the situation, as demonstrated in the interview above.

[azurnoir]

52. It would seem that confronting them militarily would help

the cause you've been championing here

[azurnoir]

39. Oh what an imagination

So Iran rules Gaza is that it then why is Israel not attacking the real problem?

[ohio2007]

61. It's obvious you don't know the roots of Hamas

What makes you think Israel is not attacking the real problem ?

The media has you convinced Israel is supposed to bomb a nuke plant,
designed and built by the half ass Russians ? Yes, those flunkies of the Soviet nuclear program that have such an unblemished safety record that makes them so outstanding in their field :sarcasm:

They had you screaming that the invasion of Iran was to kick off in June 04...05...06...07...08....

Ready to make it 0 for six ?

Israel is attacking, just not where you hope they would.

[Alamuti Lotus]

32. Waiting for the conspiracy theory

Iran and Venezuela conspired to force Israel to invade Gaza in order to raise world oil prices back up. They seem to be responsible for everything else according to certain sources.