NYT: A Gaza war full of traps and trickery

[shira]

JERUSALEM — The grinding urban battle unfolding in the densely populated Gaza Strip is a war of new tactics, quick adaptation and lethal tricks.

Hamas, with training from Iran and Hezbollah, has used the last two years to turn Gaza into a deadly maze of tunnels, booby traps and sophisticated roadside bombs. Weapons are hidden in mosques, schoolyards and civilian houses, and the leadership’s war room is a bunker beneath Gaza’s largest hospital, Israeli intelligence officials say.

Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms. The militants emerge from tunnels to shoot automatic weapons or antitank missiles, then disappear back inside, hoping to lure the Israeli soldiers with their fire.

In one apartment building in Zeitoun, in northern Gaza, Hamas set an inventive, deadly trap. According to an Israeli journalist embedded with Israeli troops, the militants placed a mannequin in a hallway off the building’s main entrance. They hoped to draw fire from Israeli soldiers who might, through the blur of night vision goggles and split-second decisions, mistake the figure for a fighter. The mannequin was rigged to explode and bring down the building.

In an interview, the reporter, Ron Ben-Yishai, a senior military correspondent for the newspaper Yediot Aharonot, said soldiers also found a pile of weapons with a grenade launcher on top. When they moved the launcher, “they saw a detonator light up, but somehow it didn’t go off.”


<snip>

To that end, Israeli intelligence is detaining large numbers of young Gazan men to interrogate them for local knowledge and Hamas tactics. Last week, Israel captured a hand-drawn Hamas map in a house in Al Atatra, near Beit Lahiya, which showed planned defensive positions for the neighborhood, mine and booby trap placements, including a rigged gasoline station, and directions for snipers to shoot next to a mosque. Numerous tunnels were marked.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[tekisui]

1. What did Israel expect?

Did they really expect the militants to come out in the farms to be blown away? Israel took Hamas' bait to come into the cities and are going to be stuck in an unwinnable situation.

[Idealism]

2. Shira thinks the badly outgunned militants should fight like men n/t

[shira]

5. nope, Shira thinks they should learn like Egypt and Jordan

that Israel won't take any shit and will fight back hard, so give up your genocidal Jihadi aspirations, make peace, and let's move on with life. Egypt and Jordan figured that out. Hamas has not.

[Idealism]

6. Yea, those Arabs should learn to take that occupation laying down like the West Bank does

Nice.

[shira]

9. yeah, they should "resist" by targetting Israeli children

instead, and try calling that "defense". You sure as hell buy that line.

Hey, maybe they should approve of Camp David/Taba peace deals instead of "resisting" like Hamas. Olmert's Annapolis offer to Abbas just recently was also shot down.

Please tell me you really believe that Palestinian Leadership is really and truly dedicated to having their own peaceful state coexisting next to Israel. And that you know this because _____________ ?

[Idealism]

11. You mean they have laser-guided bombs dropping on Israeli schools now?

Wait, no that's Israel...

I guess the U.N. aid workers were terrorist sympathizers and deserved to be killed, too.

Let me explain to you about Hamas: they have two wings, did you know that? The militant wing is bat-shit crazy and should be jailed for life. The civil wing has done good for Gaza (they have opened schools, hospitals, and enforced the law where there previously wasn't). You don't get rid of a group like Hamas by killing them, so why do you think Israel is doing the right thing? You are only breeding the next generation of would-be suicide bombers and militants by killing their family and fellow Palestinians.

Hamas was not involved in any of those peace talks, so I don't get your point there. The second Hamas won the election and formed a unity government with Fatah remnants, Israel said they wouldn't negotiate with them because they were terrorists. But keep thinking that its all the Palestinians fault, you have made nothing but a fool of yourself time and time again.

[Vegasaurus]

24. Suicide bombing and rockets and terrorism

has not improved the Palestinians' lives one iota.

If you cared about the Palestinians, as you claim to do, you would see that.

Perpetual war is bad for everyone, but worse for the losing side.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. There is some merit in pointing out the extensive use of human shields

by making so that if you kill the Hamas fighters, civilians would be hurt as well.

In the scenario in the article, if the mannequin did trip, I have no doubt that the destruction of the house would be blamed on Israel

[Idealism]

8. I don't know if I would call it extensive

But then again human shield is a relative term, hard to completely avoid being near (another relative term) to civilians in the most densely populated region in the world.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. So Hamas gets a free ride for endangering or killing civilians?

Multiple stories have pointed out the lack of Hamas fighters and the heavy use of booby traps and other explosives. Should Israel withdraw immediately, that alone will bring a death price to Gazans that will make dud cluster munitions in Lebanon look tame.

[Idealism]

12. Did I say anything that even comes close to that?

I have seen one story about booby traps thus far, no real mention of them before that- only speculation. I would expect more of them, to be honest, considering Hamas doesn't have much defensive capabilities to rely on. Considering Israel and Egypt won't let anyone leave, did you expect this to be a bloodless war?

The Israeli government and Hamas' militant wing should be jailed for life. Period.

[shira]

3. well, Israel can just do nothing and...

accept 60-80 rockets and mortars daily as no other country would.

Israelis deserve collective punishment after all, as Israel has no right to defend itself.

It's a "war crime" for any country, not just Israel, to respond to an enemies' cross-border rocket attacks when that enemy sadistically uses its civilian centers to shoot and store its weapons, right?

[tekisui]

4. I responded to you comment on Israel's war crimes

in the other thread. The war crimes are the tactics not the theory of self defense, which every country has a right to.\

Bombing refugees at a UN marked school. Killing UN aid drivers. Restricting Red Cross access. Whit Phosphorous.

[shira]

13. you are aware that Hamas' tactics are double-war crimes?

when they shoot rockets over the border and use their civilians as they do, those are punishable war crimes they DON'T have a "right" to......correct?

You just read in the OP that Hamas puts wired manneqins in doorways hoping Israel shoots and trips off a monstrous explosion....and you're 100% certain Israel is intentionally and ruthlessly attacking schools, aid drivers, red cross, etc.?

Is it that just by participating in this war, Israel is guilty of war crimes - since it is impossible to avoid civlian casualties due to Hamas preparation?

[tekisui]

14. Double War Crimes?

Huh? War Crimes are War Crimes. And, I have admitted that yes, Hamas commits horrible crimes.

No. Israel's participation is not the War Crime. The War Crimes are in firing on UN schools used by refugees, by firing on UN drivers, blocking Red Cross efforts, not treating the injured and using White Phosphorous. Defend war crimes all you want, I simply will not play that game.

[Idealism]

15. I don't know how you can double a war crime..

No one is defending Hamas' rocket fire on civilians. That is deplorable and a war crime. So if collective punishment. So is white phosphorous. So is killing civilians.

Do you honestly think Israel has made countless mistakes of where they meant to bomb, using the laser-guided high tech weaponry that they have? If nothing else, our $134 billion we shipped to Israel since 1949 has bought them a lot of sophisticated tools of war.

[Duckhunter935]

16. No one is defending Hamas' rocket fire on civilians.

There are quite a few around here that do. Maybe not you

[Idealism]

17. If I come across any I'll be sure to chastise them all the same

Thanks for the heads up

[henank]

18. A Gaza war full of traps and trickery

New York Times

Hamas, with training from Iran and Hezbollah, has used the last two years to turn Gaza into a deadly maze of tunnels, booby traps and sophisticated roadside bombs. Weapons are hidden in mosques, schoolyards and civilian houses, and the leadership’s war room is a bunker beneath Gaza’s largest hospital, Israeli intelligence officials say.

Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms. The militants emerge from tunnels to shoot automatic weapons or antitank missiles, then disappear back inside, hoping to lure the Israeli soldiers with their fire.

[Hannah Bell]

19. so wily, they are, that they've deliberately only killed 7 idf - to get them to drop

their guard - to lure them into the trap.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Wily? Or just piss-poor shots?

Perhaps the problem is they can't see well enough from behind the women and children where they crouch?

[Hannah Bell]

21. sure, that's it. The hundreds the idf killed were the human shields of the

wily guys with bad aims.

Did you read the article? Makes em sound like major league guerillas -

But the body count tells a different story.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Well, it would explain a good number.

It's not like Hamas has ever used human shields. Hide in a Mosque, a school, a daycare...as long as Hamas is doing it, you know there will be a "progressive" to come along to justify their doing so and then condemning Israel for "attacking" a Mosque, a school, a daycare.

All those Israeli targets and more have been killed in friendly fire than by the "resistance." Maybe those poor Hamas members need supplies...like periscopes to see ABOVE the baby stroller or woman in front of them. Quick....write a check!

[Hannah Bell]

23. ya, they're a bunch of cowards who hide behind children & can't shoot straight,

totally ineffective at killing -

or they're a HUGE, wily threat that should be responded to with massive force, bombers, ground troups, tanks & mass casualties - WHICH IS IT?

You can't keep the storyline straight.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

25. What's next? "Hamas Employs Sorcery to Bedevil IDF" Would the IDF prefer phosphorus?