IDF uses live ammunition to break up West Bank demonstrations

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Palestinians and Israeli left-wing activists claim that in the wake of Operation Cast Lead, the Israel Defense Forces has reintroduced the use of a semiautomatic rifle that uses live ammunition to disperse crowds that was banned after the second Intifada.

The Ruger .22 rifle was banned following the Al-Aqsa Intifada, in which it was used to break up protests and caused the deaths of a number of Palestinians, including youths and children.

In 2001, the IDF's then-Military Advocate General Menahem Finkelstein ruled that the rifle, used against protesters and stone-throwers, be viewed as a lethal weapon in all senses.

The rifle has been used by snipers to shoot at protesters from the waist down, and last Friday it was used to fire on activists, eight of whom sustained light wounds to the leg.

The .22 rifle fires a small cartridge which has a much lower stopping power than larger caliber rifles in use by Israeli security forces, but can still be lethal at close range. IDF snipers will use the rifle to fire at demonstrators, aiming at the lower half of the body.

The rifle was used by security forces against Palestinian demonstrators in the West Bank last Friday, with 8 demonstrators sustaining light wounds to their legs.

"We have never seen these rifles used before. The soldiers use them to break up demonstrations, not in instances where their lives are in danger. They shoot from long range, far past the range of rock-throwers," left-wing activist Yonatan Pollak said."

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[aquart]

1. How many dead?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Scurrilous]

4. Goodbye!

:hi:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. That this is less lethal than rubber bullets I find surprising.

They shoot from long range, far past the range of rock-throwers," left-wing activist Yonatan Pollak said."


That is how sniping is normally done. Far enough so that they are effective and their targets are not.

What is not said is how far the rock throwers are from other whom they can injure.

[ohio2007]

6. what I find suprising is the lack of major protest in places you would expect the biggest stink

over the Gaza issue.
ie
Not long ago somebody somewhere drew a cartoon or two and certain parts of the world people were seething in outrage over the "attack" that these cartoons supposedly inflicted on a large population of the world. Real ugly pain was inflicted. It was outrageous.

Did people take notice that Israel dropped a bomb on a 'house of worship' in Gaza.............two fridays ago and I myself was expecting a cartoon like hate rage parade played out in the media for all the world to see.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090103/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_309
but
where was the rage?

Was that item overlooked in certain corners of the world?
or maybe "the red headed stepchild" analogy has been proven on the field of conflict afterall

snip
Most of Hamas' leaders went into hiding at the start of Israel's offensive. Rayan, however, was known for openly defying Israel and in the past had led crowds to the homes of wanted Hamas figures - as if daring Israel to strike and risk the lives of civilians.


snip
http://www.military.com/news/article/israel-bombs-hamas-homes-gaza-mosque.html?col=1186032310810&wh=wh

One can say "in those parts of the world" repressive regimes rule with an iron fist so the people really can't vent.

But I'm not 100% convinced that is the case.

The underlying message may be the days of Hamas could be numbered.
Perhaps numbered in double digits.

Well,
we will see what Barack will say after his first 100 days state of the union address on foreign relations matters.

[Recursion]

8. I'm normally a knee-jerk "pro-Palestinian", but let me make a point...

"Rock-throwers" are rarely the overmatched teenagers people imagine. They use slings, and slung rocks are quite simply lethal.

I'm not excusing the IDF's actions, I just want to point out that well-slung rocks are quite lethal.

[azurnoir]

7. Two interesting perspectives from the article

In 2001, the IDF's then-Military Advocate General Menahem Finkelstein ruled that the rifle, used against protesters and stone-throwers, be viewed as a lethal weapon in all senses.

vs

An IDF official said Friday that the rifle is less lethal and causes less damage than a rubber bullet.

quite the change of heart