EXTRA: UN: Israel admits rocket fire was not from within school

[bemildred]

Jerusalem - Israel told foreign diplomats Wednesday that Palestinian militants had not fired rockets from within a United Nations' school, a UN official said. Israeli military officials said on Tuesday that militants had fired rockets from within the school, and that attack provoked Israeli artillery fire which landed near the school and killed more than 40 Palestinians in the Jabalia refugee camp, many of whom were seeking refuge from fighting.

"The Israeli army is briefing diplomats privately that the militant fire from Jablia yesterday did not come from inside the UNRWA school compound, but from the outside," said Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the UN Relief Works Agency, which aids Palestinian refugees.

Gunness said the claim was a "major allegation against a neutral UN development agency" which "within a day turns out to be completely baseless."

UNRWA's Gaza director, John Ging, had said earlier that to the best of his knowledge no rockets were fired from within the school.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/249400,extra-un-israel-admits-rocket-fire-was-not-from-within-school.html

[tekisui]

1. Liars.

You can't trust a thing that comes from Israeli military. It's all PR.

[aquart]

7. Really? I see people correcting mistakes in the record. NOT lying.

Or do you believe there was indeed firing coming from the school?

[tekisui]

9. They lied, the UN called them out on it.

[shira]

17. your strings are showing - drinking too much Hamas koolaid

as if Hamas firing right outside the UN school at the IDF doesn't rate for some shots back to where the original firepower came from.

So great....Hamas wasn't shooting out from the windows of the school.......they were right outside the doors of the school. Yeah, great big difference that makes.

[tekisui]

32. I've never had that Hamas koolaid.

I detest them. But, that doesn't make Israel firing into a UN school right. Far from it. Even if they were 'close'. Israel needs to respect human life and the UN.

Israeli koolaid, now that's the good stuff. That will lead you to defending every action that the Israeli military takes.

I can criticize both sides. I challenge you to do the same. Wrong is wrong.

[damntexdem]

13. They lied about the UN, and organization able to call them on it.

So that had to backtrack. That doesn't bring back the lives that were lost, though.

[bemildred]

2. 'Terror operatives' among dead at UN school, says Israel

Israel's military said Hamas "terror operatives" were among dozens of dead at a UN-run school hit by tank shells in the Gaza Strip, and that mortar fire had come from the building.

The Israeli strike near al-Fakhura school in Jabaliya, northern Gaza, killed 43 people, according to Gaza medical services, and was condemned worldwide.

An Israeli military spokesman said: "It has been found that among the dead at the Jabaliya school were Hamas terror operatives and a mortar battery cell who were firing on IDF forces in the area."

The dead Hamas militants found at the scene were named as Imad Abu Askhar and Hassan Abu Askhar.

http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=6aa5c3ab561be110VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&s=news

[panader0]

4. Everyone in Gaza is a "terror operator" now.

Wouldn't you be?

[panader0]

5. Oops dupe.

[High Plains]

10. How the fuck does Israel know who they killed at that school?

Did they send Bibi in to check the bodies?

[bemildred]

12. I assume they lie whenever this sort of claim is published.

Especially when, as is common, no supporting evidence is given for the claim.

[The Magistrate]

20. The New York Times Report Today On the Matter, Sir

Does cite a young Arab Palestinian who knew one of the men named, and placed him at the school. The young man had, along with his older brother, turned out in response to an appeal to pile sand-bags to "protect the resistance fighters", and both were engaged in doing so "near the school" when his brother was injured in the Israeli shelling. Who interviewed the young man is unclear in the article.

[bemildred]

22. "Who interviewed the young man is unclear in the article." nt

[bemildred]

24. It appears to me that we differ in the amount of duplicity we are willing to attribute

to the "News" media. I do not disagree that there are honest reporters and editors and so on, but governments intervene whenever they like.

[The Magistrate]

25. Merely, Sir, As You Often Do, Noting What Is Published On The Matter

The account is plausible, but must be regarded as unconfirmed owing to absence of detailed provenance.

[bemildred]

26. And noting that there are various parties with a motive to fudge the issue.

It seems at least "mysterious" to me how these things are known so soon, when the "fog of war" intervenes in other cases where it is more convenient. I don't claim to know the facts of the case here, but the point is moot, I would not have fired a tank shell into the place regardless.

[The Magistrate]

27. It is Pretty Clear, Sir, That Whoever Did Cocked Up Royally

Sometimes you just do not get to be wrong....

[bemildred]

28. Indeed, Sir.

Plenty of that going on.

[azurnoir]

34. There was an account last night sir

AP I believe that stated eyewitnesses said Hamas militants were firing rocket from a street near the school I just tested the link that I posted and of course the story has been updated out of existence, but that a more likely scenario than the UNRWA workers at the school allowing Hamas to fire rockets from there which IMO is the underpinning of the IDF claims.

edited to add link

Gaza truce proposed after Israeli shell kills 30

Israel's military said its shelling at the school — the deadliest single episode since Israeli ground forces invaded Gaza on Saturday after a week of air bombardment — was a response to mortar fire from within the school and said Hamas militants were using civilians as cover.

Two residents of the area who spoke with The Associated Press by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALEST...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=240227&mesg_id=240530

[The Magistrate]

35. Thank You For That, Ma'am

One suspects that if armed men insisted, there would have been little the U.N. staff could have done, but a location nearby indeed makes more sense all around. We are left with bad judgement and uncertainty where rounds were actually aimed, and if they struck what they were aimed it. None of which makes much difference to the dead, of course, and those they were near and dear to.

[azurnoir]

36. You are welcome

the statement had a ring of truth about about it.

[uppityperson]

3. thank you for posting this. Wish I could rec but will kick

[Bolo Boffin]

6. It is very disturbing to see two groups excusing themselves like children.

"They fired from the school!"

"No, we didn't!"

No, they didn't.

"Well, they were close to it... And they started it by firing missiles at us!"

"Well, they didn't kill anybody. Plus, they attacked some of our fighters and broke the cease fire!"

"But they were digging a tunnel to get suicide bombers into our country!"

"No, they weren't!"

And on and on and on. Meanwhile, Israeli elections approach and Israeli fundraisers hawk their side on Fox News advertisements during Hannity and Colmes. If the attacks don't work, then Bebe is right there, promising the Israeli people that he can do it right.

And Hamas keeps pushing it, pushing it, pushing it.

[sixmile]

8. Thanks for posting

Here's a link from Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html

I'm disgusted at the unashamed propaganda being posted throughout DU. The hasbara here are rampant and not too modest in their ignorance, lack of empathy, or hated of humanity.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Idealism]

33. Give him some time!

[The Magistrate]

14. It Will Be Interesting To See Further Details Emerge, Sir

[bemildred]

15. It all seems fairly predictable to me, Sir.

War is "messy" as Mr Rumsfeld said in a slightly different context. What seems different is mostly that we don't have to wait weeks for the back-and-forth of accusations and retractions and dissembling to play out. I can't say it makes me feel good either way. If this sort of thing led politicians to be more reluctant to engage in this sort of military theatrics (and I do mean both Hamas and the IDF) then that would cheer me up. It is hard for me to see how this "war" will do much good for anyone beyond various politicians and "leaders" and such. If politicians actually pursued the well-being of the polities they claim to represent with some degree of integrity and conscience, that would be even better. But I don't expect much. What we have here on both sides is dead people as political weapons and political stage props.

I must say that I am eager to see what Mr Obama does once he has the levers of state power at his disposal.

[The Magistrate]

18. Here, My Friend, Is Where My Morbid Curiousity Can Become Tricky

It actually does interest me to know, if at all possible, what actually happened.

What has been said so far, including the above, lacks precision, and gives little ground for understanding what actually went into the incident.

The statement 'outside the facility' covers a lot of ground; someone on the sidewalk five paces from my front door is 'outside' my home, but what a radar set tracking a mortar trajectory would read back for co-ordinates could well be centered precisely on my living room. Then there is the range of error in the fall of the return fire. Then are questions like what was the effectiveness of the fire that the intent was to suppress, was the mortar team doing a 'shoot and scoot' and ducking into the place after firing and observed doing so, among others which could be posed by people interested in something other than raising a hue and cry about the behavior of one side or another.

[bemildred]

23. Well, I'm going to stick with "this all seems fairly predictable to me". nt

[Bragi]

29. In all due respect

It looks very much like Israel withdrew its allegations about who was in the school for a very good tactical reason: they had been caught dissembling.

It reminds me of early in the Iraq invasion, where every second day a 120 point headline would appear boldly screaming "WMD Found!".

Three days later, on page 86, a paragraph inserted into a longer report would note that, on inspection, the WMF "seemed to be" toaster parts.

War proponents would then argue in great detail in columns and blogs and even here that toaster parts could have dual uses, and be part of a nuclear program.

Battle propaganda always seems to have its own patterns and cadence, doesn't it.

- B

[The Magistrate]

30. The Only Certainty In War Is Confusion, Sir

It will be a while before what actually happened here is really known in fair detail.

[IndianaGreen]

16. So much for all of Israel's megaphones in DU

Poor little Israel, so mistreated and misunderstood.

:nopity:

[shira]

19. want some Hamas men on your porch shooting

mortars or bazooka rounds at troops across the street while you're maybe 20 feet behind them in your house? Yeah, that's so much better than your Hamas comrades firing out of your home's windows, right? Or nyet?

[IndianaGreen]

31. I wouldn't be occupying someone else's land or property

and you are beginning to sound like those that claimed that Saddam could launch his drones loaded with WMD within 15 minutes (the drones turned out to be model planes made of balsa wood, and no WMD).

[StudsT]

21. that the state of israel will massacre so many is the real issue not who was where, when

if they would be willing to expend as much energy at the negotiating table as they do with mass murder to achieve their political ends we wouldn't be here.

what about the hundreds of others (men, women and children) they have killed since this terror operation began?

what they are doing is beyond all measure of proportionality and should cease immediately.

and so it goes...

StudsT