Israel to free 250 Palestinian prisoners

[oberliner]

JERUSALEM (AFP) – Caretaker Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Monday that 250 Palestinian prisoners would be freed in a goodwill gesture, as Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas urged Israel to maintain the Gaza truce.

The pair met in Jerusalem for the first time in two months, amid rising tension in and around the besieged Gaza Strip where Israeli forces and Palestinian militants have engaged in almost daily tit-for-tat attacks since November 4.

"Abbas had asked him to free Palestinian prisoners and Olmert told him of the decision to release 250 at the beginning of December," Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081117/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazadiplomacy;_ylt=AgXnxu.KMn9aqmzzKHxoM.2s0NUE

[Joe Chi Minh]

1. That is great news. I hope it signifies a change in Israel's polices towards

the Palestinians. I've always supported Israel on here and elsewhere, because I believed the Israelis were the victims of the Palestinians' murderous intransigence, but it seems I coudn't have been more misinformed.

I railed against the Palestinina leaders for leading their people into a war they couldn't win, but according to a book by Noam Chomsky, it wasn't the case at all. It was a war manufactured by Israel, and apparently indicative of their general policies towards the Palestinians. And try as I might, I can't think of a reason why Chomsky would lie on such a subject or assert as truths things that were false.

Of course, leaders and people are seldom the same or even close to each other, and God doesn't repent of his choices. Israel set the standard for our civilisation long, long ago, and without Judaism, there could have been no Christianity. So, it gives me special pleasure to read about this gesture. I hope there will be a real rapprochment sooner rather than later. For the Palestians to have such gifted neighbours as the Jewish people, and not to be able to gain from it, from the largesse that their origins and divine vocation prefigured so long ago, would seem a great shame. Especially after the great harm done to them in more recent times.

[oberliner]

2. Which war and which book are you talking about? nt

[Joe Chi Minh]

3. Sorry. I meant the Lebanon invasion. It's a small book and was written in 2007.

Its title is, What We Say Goes, a quote from George Bush senior, relating to his "vision thing" with regard to geopolitics.

[oberliner]

4. Thanks for the info!

I'll check it out.

[eyl]

5. Which Lebanon invasion are you talking about?

There were at least three.

If you're talking about the most recent one (2006), it was most certainly not engineered by Israel, and in any case has little to do with the Palestinians.

[oberliner]

6. Chomsky claims that Israel kidnapped two Gazans which led to the Hezbollah action

This was in the lead-up to the 2006 conflict with Lebanon.

Chomsky refers to them as "civilian doctors" who were kidnapped by the IDF.

Israel says that they were Hamas militants planning a terror attack against Israel and, hence, were arrested (as opposed to kidnapped).

Their names are Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar (although I have seen different variations of these spellings online)

Chomsky (and others) have suggested that Hezbollah kidnapped the two Israelis in response to this event, which in turn led to the Israeli action against Lebanon.

Here is some info from Wikipedia on the incident, for what that is worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muamar_family_detention_incident

[eyl]

7. Seems like rather convoluted logic

Given that Hizbullah has no legitimate standing in a conflict between Israel and Hamas. Conversely, if they do have such standing, it follows that Hizbullah can be attacked by Israel in retaliation for Hamas actions, no?

[oberliner]

8. I don't want to speak for Chomsky

I may be misstating his claim - I have only read bits and pieces online.

In any case, he has a very particular point of view on the conflict(s).

[Joe Chi Minh]

10. Well, I think Chomsky says that there have been five invasions of Lebanon

in the last thirty years - not all Israeli. At least one by Syria, I recall now. But if you are really interested in the truth, you should read the book, because it is both fascinating and very enlightening. Or would be to most people - as it was to me.

Chomsky states what is evidently the truth about the positions of Hesbollah and Hamas with regard to a lasting peace treaty, and the way in which Israel and the US showed their determination to thwart such a peace treaty.

Here, from the first chapter, which deals with Lebanon, is one of many telling passages concerning the realities (though Lebanon is referred to elsewhere in the book):

"Incidentally, people talk about 'the Israeli invasion of Lebanon', but that's not accurate. The jet planes, the missiles, the cluster munitions are made here. And the United States provides them to Israel in massive numbers precisely to permit aggression. So, it's a US-Israeli invasion. The United States also vetoed a call for a cease-fire in the United Nations and then blocked a cease-fire for weeks. So, the United States has direct participation in this invasion, as in the earlier ones."

It's ironical, just as in my ignorance, I rejoiced when the IRA were taking a hammering in various ways, so, thinking the invasion was in response to a reckless provocation by Arabic "terrorist" leaders, from which they themselves would not suffer the consequences - "just the people" - I drew a fatalistically grim satisfaction in that veto of a cease-fire by the US in the United nations. "They asked for it. Now let they're getting it" sort of attitude. Even so, it was hinted to me by Jewish people that the lot of the Palestinians really was hard, probably "unjust" and "cruel", if I'd been sensitive to the hint. The same by Irish Protestants concerning the Catholics in Northern Ireland. As Bill Clinton put it, the people don't always catch on for a good while, but they "get it" in the end. Words to that effect if I remember correctly. But it is one of the main reasons why, except for such major lacunas, I am more suspicious of the credibility of our media's version of events than of those of non far-right countries. We're not quite there fortunately, but evidently doing our worst to "keep in" with the worst.

Well, now I'm thoroughly disabused of the situation out there. Mind you, I don't think we should be surprised that the US - Israel yes - but not the US or the West, countenances the growing hunger, if not starvation of the Palestinians, when our Western corporatism, with companies such as Benetton in the van, is even now condemning young children to starve to death, evidently, in front of the eyes of their parents, presumably, also starving. It was shocking to read the account of Argentina's collapse by the 26 year-old lad (sounded 46), in which he told of a school teacher who asked a young girl why she was always crying. Her stomach was paining, because she hadn't eaten for three days. One thing is certain, the CEOs and directors of Western companies causing such misery in other countries are doomed to spend eternity in Hell. No ifs or buts. And why wouldn't they?

[eyl]

11. Once again

The invasion had nothing to do with the Palestinians and did not involve them.

[Joe Chi Minh]

15. Once again. which invasion do you have in mind? Isn't subjugation of the whole

of the Middle East the objective of the US Neocons and their friends in Israel? In Lebanon, evidently it was the Moslem Lebanese who were shown the "mailed fist," apparently on a completely trumped up pretext.

But I'm not going to rabbit on about a subject of which I've only learnt some general, but evidently crucial truths concerning the credibility of the parties. Read the book.

[Vegasaurus]

9. This is insane when Hamas is lobbing hundreds of rockets

Why reward terrorists?

[Tarc]

12. Because Abbas isn't resposible for the actions of Hamas.

[Vegasaurus]

13. And Abbas has nothing to do with the truce

So why is the "goodwill gesture" being made towards him?

[azurnoir]

14. Because Abbas and Olmert or

Fatah and Israel have been in negotiations for almost a year, since Annapolis in November of 2007. Sometimes "goodwill" gestures are made when these types of things are going on.

[shira]

16. turn the tables around

Let's suppose the worst extremist Israelis are held in jail for VERY good reason (terrorists/murderers) but are held by Fatah. Think Kahanists but even worse. Israel demands their release for "good will" purposes.

Imagine the outrage.

No one would think that would be a bright idea. And neither is this latest news.