IDF allows fleeing Fatah members into Israel

[Scurrilous]

180 Fatah members enter country through Nahal Oz terminal after Hamas asserts control in Gaza City stronghold of clan linked to Abbas' faction following fierce clashes; sources in Strip say former Tanzim leader Ahmad Hilles among those allowed entry. Wounded evacuated to Israeli hospitals

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3576729,00.html

<snip>

"More than 180 Fatah members who fled Gaza City following Hamas' raid on a stronghold of the Hilles clan were allowed to enter Israel through the Nahal Oz terminal after laying down their arms and undergoing an initial interrogation; 22 of those who have entered Israel were injured during the clashes.

Five of the injured were taken to the Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba for treatment. One of the Palestinians was reportedly in serious condition, while the other two sustained moderate and light wounds. Ten more Palestinians were taken to the Barzilai Medical Center in Ashkelon; one of them was listed in serious condition, and the rest suffered moderate and light wounds.

A number of other injured Palestinians were evacuated to Rehovot's Kaplan Medical Center.

DF sources said the Palestinians were allowed into Israel for humanitarian reasons, adding that dozens more have gathered near the Israel-Gaza security fence and will be permitted to enter the country in the coming hours. They will later be transferred to the West Bank, which is under Palestinian Authority control.

Sources in Gaza said among those who were allowed entry by the IDF was Ahmad Hilles, the head of the Hilles clan, who then reportedly made his way to the West Bank along with a number of his family members who were injured during the clashes with Hamas."

[azurnoir]

1. Seeing as how Israel is allowing Fatah members

into Israel for "purely" humanitarian reasons of course, can we now "assume" that everyday Gazan's seeking medical care are allowed in as well?

[pelsar]

2. why?......

I guess your right...israel wasnt letting them in for, as you put it *purely* for humanitarian reasons...im sure there was some diabolical reason other than saving their lives...

hmm...maybe the IDF wanted their shoes?

[azurnoir]

3. Were they Italian loafers? n/t

[Dick Dastardly]

4. They were Mossad agents n/t

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azurnoir]

7. Maybe it was a little early for you

but you should read newspapers or something there is a cease fire and to all reports it has been awhile since the things you mention have happened, or perhaps time to change those "hot keys" the current meme is the infighting between Hamas and Fatah.

[Vegasaurus]

9. Are you blaming the current warfare between Hamas and Fatah on Israel?

On what do you "blame" the infighting?

[number6]

10. All Gazens in on it huh ....

"blow up everyone and everything Israel, including their own food and fuel, and the border crossings,....."

well ya know how those sub human Arabs and muslims are..:sarcasm:

what a bigoted and hateful post.

Vegasaurus you disgust me. :( another of your anti Palestinian posts

from the rules : Do not make over-sweeping or stereotypical generalizations of any group or individual. This includes making statements, either overtly or subtly, which are Anti-Semitic or Anti-Muslim

[number6]

11. ...oops double post

nt

[oberliner]

6. Hamas arrests Fatah men returned to Gaza by Israel

A Hamas official on Sunday said a group of Fatah men returned by Israel to the Gaza Strip were immediately detained by the Palestinian militant group's security forces.

Israel on Sunday returned to Gaza 32 members of a group of over 150 Fatah-linked men who had fled clashes with Hamas on Saturday, and was also planning to send the remaining men back to the coastal strip.

"After the occupation refused to receive most of those who fled Gaza, dozens have returned and the Palestinian police have taken them into custody," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.

Israel sent the group back on Sunday after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad withdrew an earlier request for Defense Minister Ehud Barak to allow the Gazans entry to Israel and then to transfer them to the West Bank.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1008027.html

[pelsar]

8. good or bad?

in terms of "running a state" hamas did the right thing...they can hardly run things when the armed clans control neighborhoods...and i doubt these "fatah" guys were such angels. In fact its something Abbas is going to have to do sooner or later if he wants control of his domain as well.

[azurnoir]

12. Are they these guys

But after the explosion that killed five Hamas men and a seven year-old-girl on June 25, Hamas changed its policy and began confiscating weapons from Fatah groups, first and foremost the faction's armed wing, the Aksa Martyrs Brigades.

The suspects, all members of Fatah, were said to have found shelter with the powerful Hilles clan, which had established its own "security zone" in the neighborhood.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x220452

The Hilles clan is mentioned in both articles as giving shelter to those Hamas is attempting to arrest and as being allowed to cross into Israel, if Israel is allowing these people to enter Israel as escape that is truly bad and could lend "credence" to claims that Fatah in Gaza is acting at Israel's behest.

All in all "throwing gasoline on the fire" and gas is expensive these days

[pelsar]

13. to a certain degree. israel is working with fatah...

thats what the whole idea of agreements, peace treaties, etc is all about. Of course we see it with PMs remarks that Fatah is in cahoots with israel..Because they work together.

the alternative is what was happening pre olso or what is happening with hizballa and hamas....a low level war.
======

anyway its like the fence on egypt..when people start running for the fence when theyre being shot at...israel opens the gates and lets them in. Its happened already quite a few times in the past. They all know, despite the rhetoric of the evil zionist that they get treated far better within israel then they will at the hands of their brethren.

[azurnoir]

14. Good parsing

however the fact remains that there is supposedly a cease fire between Israel and Hamas, and while I suppose not technically breaking the cease fire Israel is helping those who at the very least are responsible for the deaths of several people including a small child escape justice, this is not the case of "being treated better by Israel than at the hands of their Arab brethren", it is a case of Israel enabling criminals and to what end. the cease fire seems to be "frustrating" for Israel.

It might be a different case if Hamas was arresting these people for n other reason than their being Fatah, but this not the situation it seems.

[pelsar]

15. so in your eyes...murder is the better option?

as i understand it ....you preference is that the israeli troops at the border should have just watched while the fatah people caught in a cross fire were killed (yes they were caught in a hamas crossfire....IDF firing back kept hamas back).

and when the videos of such events came out we would find you defending israel for doing nothing?....

i really want this clarified as the stance is quite interesting.....
___

and of course you have the obligatory statement that has no backing of any kind, but is used to show how bad israel is

the cease fire seems to be "frustrating" for Israel.

lets see if you can list the events that led you to the conclusion that israel is frustrated (this should be interesting.....)

[shira]

25. yes, another Sabra/Shatilla

Israel should have done nothing and allowed these Fatah men to be massacred by Hamas. Then Israel would be blamed like Sabra/Shatilla. Israel can seemingly do nothing right.

Fascinating how we see what Palestinians really and truly think about Israel when the chips are down like this. They flee to Israel and get medically treated while avoiding persecution in their own territories. What an anomoly for the anti-Israel crowd, huh? You'd think the very LAST place for Palestinian militants to flee would be to their mortal enemy Israel.

Gosh.

[Violet_Crumble]

26. Ariel Sharon was personally responsible for Sabra/Shatilla...

Just a small fact worth mentioning...

btw, where's this *anti-Israel* crowd you keep talking about?

[oberliner]

16. Israel returned the men to Gaza where they were arrested by Hamas

GAZA: About 30 pro-Fatah Palestinians who had fled to Israel after fierce clashes in the Gaza Strip were sent back to the enclave Sunday by Israel, and Hamas, the Islamist group that controls Gaza, said its forces had immediately detained them.

Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/03/mideast/gaza.php

[azurnoir]

17. So who to believe

jpost or iht? six of one half dozen of the other? Was Israel unaware of the situation in Gaza when the prisoners were released? "if" so then why release them there?

Hamas claims they were trying to arrest people responsible for a what could be called (irony alert)a terrorist act that resulted in the death of a child, the Hilles clan was sheltering them,perhaps Israel should have determined who was who, certainly there are records of recently released prisoners.





edited to add-nice to see you back, really

[pelsar]

18. returning them or not is a political question.....

when they asked for help from israel it was during a gun battle.....

Abbas at first refused to accept them (the westbankers are not to fond of gazans, especially those of the clans), then he did....but i guess we can assume that whatever israel does your going to find israel guilty of something bad.......

__


so just out of curiosity..do you still believe israel shouldnt not have opened the gates and let them get slaughtered?

[azurnoir]

19. Not about politics exactly

more about criminals who are responsible or the death of a kid among others, so did Abbas decide to accept them after they were allowed back into Israel? Perhaps Israel can determine who is who?

For efficiency sake I'll answer your question about frustration

First off the raids on Hamas charities on the West Bank. arrests of Hamas people on the West Bank, and then this episode. In the past all of these things would have brought a "response" from Hamas, but not lately, Hamas is perhaps growing "savvy" too.

[pelsar]

21. your 3 examples.....

of israels frustrations..... involve:

1) israeli actions against hamas

2) fatah actions against hamas

3) fatah actions against hamas


notice only one of the three involve israel (did you not know that?).......and that to you shows israel is frustrated with the cease fire?......maybe the israelis dont mind the ceasefire?....or is that not possible in your world?
----

but you skipped the first question: should israel NOT have let the fatah guys in to israel?....from what i understand so far, you believe israel should not have let them in.....and let hamas finish what they started.....

[azurnoir]

23. Question answered in comments #19 and #20

and may I remind you-"to a certain degree. israel is working with fatah...", and still why would Israel release these guys in Gaza?

and now Israel is concerned with what Abbas wants?

Parse it anyway you want, but right now a few rockets from Gaza with of course a strong Israeli response would provide a "needed" distraction for at least one member of the Israeli government and depending on who could take credit a show of strength for a couple of others

[pelsar]

24. so why do you skip such simple questions:

so just out of curiosity..do you still believe israel shouldnt not have opened the gates .......and not let them in


whats difficult here? i think its a relatively simple question....

i admit it, i can see why you avoided it: if you believe that israel should open the gates, then your whole theory of israelis evil intentions goes out the window....if you say no, then you seem to prefer that the israelis on the border simply stand by and watch while hamas kills people....and then you cant claim that the IDF is evil for not doing anything to stop it. (since you would be proposing exactly that).

so which was the right action...to open the gates or keep them shut?

[oberliner]

20. I think that they were allowed into Israel and only some were sent back to Gaza

It looks like of the 120 who fled to Israel, 30 were sent back to Gaza and arrested by Hamas, and the other 90 are being sent to the West Bank.

Here is today's article from Ynet on the subject:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3577675,00.html

[azurnoir]

22. Good deal thanks n/t