Will Israeli Settlers' Terrorism Finally Be Prosecuted?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

By Mustafa Qadri , AlterNet. Posted July 16, 2008.



Shocking video of Palestinians being lynched by four youths has shown a bright light on settler violence.


Susia, a little known village in the West Bank, has made international headlines after an old Palestinian couple and their nephew were filmed being lynched by four youths.

The video was captured thanks to an advocacy project sponsored by the Israeli human rights organization B'tselem.

Israeli Police say they have arrested two youths from a neighboring settlement in relation to the attack. They claim that such attacks are uncommon. But Palestinian villagers throughout the West Bank complain of regular attacks that are rarely investigated.

In April, a shepherd from the village of Salem near Nablus in the West Bank, was killed in a drive-by incident involving an Israeli bus on a settler road. Although three of his fellow shepherds witnessed the drive by, no one has ever been charged for the murder.

Last year Sameha Mustafa Khalil Shtieh, a 70-year-old man also from Salem was assaulted by settlers from the neighboring Elon Moreh settlement. "I cannot see well. I thought they were villagers. But when I got closer they hit me with stones and I fell face first onto the ground." Sameha broke several bones in his right leg and arms. "Even now I have a lot of pain. I cannot walk good and it hurts to sit down." No one has been charged with the assault.

It is not uncommon for village property to be attacked or stolen. "For six years they would come maybe once a month," explains Abdullah from the village of Assira Qibliya. "But the past two months they have been coming each Friday and Saturday afternoon ... They burn our crops and shoot at the water tanks. Sometimes the army comes. But they do not stop them."

"They poisoned cistern in 2004 2005," says Jamal, a farmer from At-Tuwani in the south Hebron hills. "About 100 sheep died because they poisoned the wheat and barley. It took 20 days to clean up . The police did nothing and never do."

read on...
http://www.alternet.org/audits/91636/?ses=b4f3f36ab4f47709521ea8389d403648

[madrchsod]

1. i doubt their punishment will equal

what they would give palestinian youth.....

[cali]

2. That the Settlers perpetrate such terrible crimes and often aren't

prosecuted is shameful. And the word terrorist is an apt one to apply to such people imo. However according to your lights, perhaps it's simply a different perspective and justifiable. That's how you described Kuntar and some Palestinian and Lebaneses reaction to his release.

[Sezu]

3. Ouch, touche. However she also needs to remember that

Israel does and has prosecuted many settlers who commit such acts. This DOES NOT HAPPEN on the other side which most often celebrates such actions as a GOOD thing.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. It'd be hard to remember something that's blatantly false...

Israel does NOT prosecute many settlers. Prosecutions are few and far between...

[Sezu]

9. Even ONE is 100% more than the other side. n/t

[leftynyc]

15. Excellent point

I also don't see the Israeli government declaring a national holiday for a convicted child murderer. And the parade - don't forget the parade.

[Sezu]

27. Or Kuntar's NAZI salutes. n/t

[leftynyc]

43. Lovely

A real prince.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Excellent points usually aren't totally wrong...

Also, the PA hasn't declared a public holiday...

A question for both you and Sezu. Knowing the sheer hatred of terrorists you both hold, it's interesting that neither of you express any of yr ususal 'outrage' about terrorists when it comes to a terrorist who's an Israeli settler and both appear to be intent on diverting the subject to Palestinian terrorism. So I'd like to know why both of you have a different attitude about terrorists when they're not Arab or Palestinian or Lebanese?

[leftynyc]

42. I see two people have already been

arrested for this. What else would you like to talk about? I think arrest, trial and, if convicted, punishment is all any of us can ask. If you don't see a difference in Israel arresting their terrorists and the Lebanese declaring a national holiday for theirs, we have nothing to discuss.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I see. So if someone is arrested for terrorism, you don't speak out against that terrorism...

Yep, if someone's arrested, that's the end of it and there's no need to speak out against the act itself. What a load of nonsense. The Bali Bombers were arrested and are soon to be executed. Using yr reasoning, no need to feel any outrage about the act itself...

I know that right now you've got a singleminded thing happening about Kuntar (personally I'm sick of the Moloch and Nazi crap, so could you guys go do it in a thread that's actually about Kuntar?), but in case you didn't notice this thread was about Israeli terrorists and jumping in yet again and trying to change the subject without expressing a word of opposition to what the Israeli terrorists have done comes across as quite hypocritical. All terrorism should be objected to, not what you pick and choose...

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sezu]

50. The odd settler or two commiting terrorism is of course bad.

It would be a thousand times worse were it sanctioned by the powers that be and committed almost daily and if a baby killer settler were feted like Kuntar. So, you see, it's perspective at work....rational perspective rather than wishy washy irrational moral confusion. So while both are bad, thousands of acts and their subsequent approval and celebration are thousands of times worse and any attempt to see them the same is irrational and immoral and propagandistic to any honest observer.

So yes, I have a slightly different view. All terrorism is bad, constant Palestinian/Arab terror is really really bad. This is not rocket science.

[Cherchez la Femme]

46. And don't forget

the 2 (Two) Israeli bodies returned, compared to the 199 (One Hundred Ninety Nine) Palestinian bodies returned.

Funny how nobody ever brings this up -- but if it doesn't fit into one's agenda and skew, well hell, facts can just be ignored!
And they are... oh boy, they most certainly are!
Speaking of "parade(s)"... let's also completely forget about that national "hero", not to mention "holy" saint and protector of the religion and the state: Baruch Goldstein, who mowed down at least 179 Mooslims at prayer in the Cave of the Patriarchs, no less; and although the massive, honored shrine erected for him was finally torn down, his gravesite is still a fucking pilgrimage site! That he was categorized as a Terrorist MUST have been some oversight by that damn Librul Knesset, I'm sure.
Bleeding fucking hearts.

How inconvenient, anyways, for that Librul Media to even mention it. And rude! with them dayum A-rabs;
I'll bet what happened with those Pali prisoners was a mass-suicide solely designed to attack and embarrass those kind people who are footing the bill for their board and fare, plus ALL those'extras' (and they not being charged with any crime(s), even after many years) just like at Guantanamo! They must have been deliberate disruptor's; coordinating an aggressive, terrorist action against their benevolent captors!

Damn them, damn them to tell!
Oh, it makes me so maaadd...



Do I NEED a :sarcasm: tag?

[Cherchez la Femme]

47. Oops, more corrections:

I meant 'deliberate anarchy by that Librul Knesset' is much more appropriate to my meaning over merely 'an oversight';

and "damn them all to hell,
not 'tell'! :blush:

[eyl]

49. You don't need a tag, but a point might be nice.n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

52. The POINT is

encapsulated in the first two sentences:

"And don't forget the 2 (Two) Israeli bodies returned, compared to the 199 (One Hundred Ninety Nine) Palestinian bodies returned.

Funny how nobody ever brings this up -- but if it doesn't fit into one's agenda and skew, well hell, facts can just be ignored!"

(emphasis deleted)

Such a response is an extremely sad, hard, uncompassionate thing... but what can one do?

But if one does not feel that there is a great and unfair disparity no matter WHO each sets of bodies belongs to, and they : between 2 deaths and 199 deaths, nothing ANYONE can say will possibly change their minds.

Additionally, one can't help but wonder the holy hell which would be raised if the nationalities were reversed --2 Palestinian corpses and 199 Israeli bodies-- from those with just such a reaction:
but then that's just mere conjecture;
although probably still very answerable.

[eyl]

53. well, for starters

many (most, AFAIK) of the bodies are of Lebenese infiltrators, not Palestinians.

Second, you pointed out the disparity - what are you trying to say it means? Don't be coy.

[Violet_Crumble]

37. And again yr wrong. What were you saying about 100% more?

Militants arrested by PA security

Palestinian security officers have arrested two militants in connection with rocket attacks on Jewish settlements in the Gaza strip.
The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades group confirmed that two of its fighters were arrested in central Gaza on Thursday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4497359.stm

[LeftishBrit]

5. Glad they were caught; hope they get the book thrown at them!

Disgusting people.

And the same goes for all others who've been getting away with such outrageous actions.

[delad]

28. problem is

settlers are rarely, if ever caught. and even when they are caught, there is rarely a prosecution. The violence perpetrated by settlers is just something that the Palestinians in the O/T have had to live with and no recourse to justice. In itself it is a form of terrorism, the colonists, with the support of the occupying military power commit these acts knowing that the military is there to defend them and not Palestinians. This argument that 1 caught is 100% more than in the O/T or Lebanon is 100% bull!@#$. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the rare prosecutions of settler violence that do occur result in a desultory punishment (to the victims) and, more importantly, gives the occupying forces a moral fig-leaf to drape over themselves

[eyl]

35. Your guess is indeed wild

the members of the Bat Ayin Conspiracy (got sentences in the vicinity of 15 years each for attacks against Palestinians a few years ago), for example, might beg to differ.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. I think its safe to say that both Israel and the PA don't come down heavy on their own nearly enough

Being in a cynical mood, I'm going to annoy as many people as possible and say that arrests, prosecutions and punishment tend to happen when there's something in it politically for the Israeli govt or the PA...

[Swede]

6. There is no lynching that I can find.

WTF is this guy talking about.

[azurnoir]

7. You are right no

"lynching" or hanging, just a "mere" beating of an elderly couple and a younger man by settler youths.

[Swede]

8. But no "shocking lynching". Why would he lie at the top of his article?

Gee,I wonder if he hoped no one would read the article or the links?

[azurnoir]

10. Kinda makes the entire article

a lie then? Maybe the whole thing was staged, do you think B'Tselem paid for production costs? Or was it Paliwood?

I suppose a simple misuse of the word is impossible especially seeing as how the article contains a link to Haaretz that does explain what happened

[Swede]

13. So when there is a real lynching,no one will believe it.

That is why you don't :misuse: a word like that.

[pelsar]

16. they used "lynch" as an attempt for "moral equivalency"

in the year 2000 two israeli reservist who took a wrong turn and were taken by the PA police to their police station were actually "lynched"...they were beaten to death, bodies tossed out the windows and bodies torn apart and dragged (and one of the killers took one of their cell phones and told his wife what they were doing.....)

so the attempt here is an attempt to show that the israelis are just as cruel...they too "lynch" Palestinians.

[azurnoir]

18. Is this the story

Photographs show some of the doomed men were dressed in civilian clothes and one was photographed before his death wrapped in a black-and-white Palestinian head-dress.

Anger had been brewing for the last two weeks which have witnessed the funerals of about 100 Arabs, nearly two dozen of them children, who have been killed in the violent uprising against Israeli occupation forces.

But this outburst of fury apparently stemmed from rumours circulating through the mob that the captives belonged to the feared and hated undercover units of the Israeli army which dress as Arabs and strike in the heart of Palestinian towns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/969778.stm

so "moral equivalency" 8 years after the fact is necessary?

[pelsar]

19. here are the real picts-your story lies

http://www.geocities.com/rachav/Lynched.html

an italian reporter had a video of it...the image of the soldiers body being tossed out the window is from that video...bottom right

[azurnoir]

20. How does my story lie

it does not deny what you have said, because it does not include the video, the story states that 3 of the men were dressed as civilians or is because it the pictures are not gruesome enough to shock and appall.

or is it because it shows both sides of the story when we all know only one should be told:sarcasm:

[pelsar]

22. the reservists...

were in uniform.....and there were 2....in this case the only "other side" is defending a mob who beat to death and then mutilated two bodies.....I suppose some can defend that.....

[azurnoir]

24. Lets see my story lies

because it states that 3 rather than 2 were dressed as civilians? That means the mob knew they were killing 2 soldiers rather than 1, if that is such a lie it would seem to state the case for the Israeli side better.

And yoiur other assertion-

in this case the only "other side" is defending a mob who beat to death and then mutilated two bodies.....I suppose some can defend that.....

the other side I was "talking" about was this, defend no show what was going on yes

Anger had been brewing for the last two weeks which have witnessed the funerals of about 100 Arabs, nearly two dozen of them children, who have been killed in the violent uprising against Israeli occupation forces.

But for "some" I would guess the deaths of 100 Arabs is meaningless and 20 or so children should I suppose that for some that is just "nipping it in the bud"

[pelsar]

25. any anger brewing...

is hardly relevant to an article that does not tell the truth.....nothing to defend there as far as i can tell......

nor is mutilating bodies have anything to do with other deaths....at least not as far as my western values are concerned, other societies and cultures may differ

[azurnoir]

26. Sir I was trying to be civil

however as I first thought and just rechecked the pictures you posted look to be of the same person, this is clear despite all gore, cheekbone, mouth, and eye structure are the same. So sir I will contend that it is you who whether knowingly or unknowingly are lying, perhaps you thought I could not stomach the pictures, you are wrong, I have seen almost as bad in real life, shooting victims in my own front yard.

[pelsar]

29. the reference is to the image...

where the soldiers body is being tossed out the window, as i mentioned in the post....that is from the Italian reporters video (who had to apologies for taking the video to the PA). As far as the other picts, in fact i did not recognize them from the video (they are not) nor from any past info.

perhaps i should have mentioned that.

the video taken at the time, showed two soliders bodys being tossed out the window and dragged around-two uniformed israeli reservists...that was the lynch that is referred to in israel.

[azurnoir]

30. The image youention

shows only one person being thrown out of the window, and that person could be wearing a uniform as both shirt and pants look to match, there is another in the window but whether this a second victim or one of the perpetrators is unclear he appears to be holding on to the window frame from the photo, it is also unclear whether or not this person is in uniform his shirt appears light colored.

As to the photo's of the body on the ground it appears to me to be that of Yosef Avrahami.

[pelsar]

31. i'm afraid this is a dumb discussion.....

the italian video at the time was very clear, the two israeli unarmed uniformed soldiers under the custody of the PA, had their bodies tossed out and dragged around (after they were killed in the police station)....the uniforms were clear as the bodies were tossed out the windows, the army boots, the way the pants are tucked in are classic.

its referred to as the lynch...the BBC article with the story line of 3 undercover israelis wearing arab dress is no more than a fabrication..otherwise known as a lie.

the additional gruesome aspect of the hands raised in blood and the use of that symbol in various other Palestinians aspects is even more pathetic

[azurnoir]

33. Pelsar there is NO video at your link

the video is mentioned in the BBC story, however

and this-

its referred to as the lynch...the BBC article with the story line of 3 undercover israelis wearing arab dress is no more than a fabrication..otherwise known as a lie.

the lie sir is entirely yours in misrepresenting what the story says there is not any mention of "undrecover Israeli agents" only that 3 of the 4 were dressed in civilian cloths.

I believe the forum rules prevent me from posting the entire story, a fact of which you are well aware.

edited to add:

Lynch mob's brutal attack

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/969778.stm

[pelsar]

36. your link..the BBC states

Four men had been travelling in an unmarked car that was somehow apprehended on a street in Ramallah. At least two were killed a couple of hours later.

The Israeli army said they were army reservists
Photographs show some of the doomed men were dressed in civilian clothes .....

unmarked car..army reservists 4 men civilian....clothes.....that doesnt strike you as being" undercover"?

Perhaps you would describe it as uniformed israeli soldiers who got confused and wore the wrong clothes?
__________

the single video pict shows one of them in uniform being tossed out the window

here if you want a more accurate version of the events:

The Palestinians do not believe this. They say the soldiers were undercover agents. .... Also, a blurry videotape of part of the incident seems to show a man in uniform.

And it is unlikely that an undercover agent would use a car with a yellow Israeli license plate, which stand out clearly among Palestinian Authority plates.

But the Palestinian belief that the men were agents -- and that they had been sent to commit an assassination at the funeral -- circulated and riled up the crowd.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E0D7153FF930A25753C1A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

[azurnoir]

39. A more complete quote from the BBC

Four men had been travelling in an unmarked car that was somehow apprehended on a street in Ramallah. At least two were killed a couple of hours later.

The Israeli army said they were army reservists who had taken a wrong turning and blundered into Ramallah where their car was apprehended.

Photographs show some of the doomed men were dressed in civilian clothes and one was photographed before his death wrapped in a black-and-white Palestinian head-dress.

To me this would suggest that they were on leave and got lost.

As for the NYC it really does not state much different

[Shaktimaan]

32. I'm confused.

you seem to be challenging the facts of this event, as pelsar told them. Unless I am misunderstanding you that is.

This is an extremely well-known and documented event. Is it actually possible that you are unaware of the events as they occurred? The reports I read all told the same basic story as pelsar just reiterated.

If you doubt this story then just look it up. But you've been posting here for months at least... maybe over a year. Are you really unfamiliar with this? It is the Israeli equivalent of when those 4 US contractors were killed and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

-----

the other side I was "talking" about was this, defend no show what was going on yes

Anger had been brewing for the last two weeks which have witnessed the funerals of about 100 Arabs, nearly two dozen of them children, who have been killed in the violent uprising against Israeli occupation forces.

But for "some" I would guess the deaths of 100 Arabs is meaningless and 20 or so children should I suppose that for some that is just "nipping it in the bud"

Sure. That's what was going on at the time. But nothing that happened can begin to serve as a rationale for what was done to these reservists. They were arrested and in a PA police station when a mob burst in, lynched them and mutilated their remains. Even during the worst days of Palestinian suicide bombing have you ever heard reports of Israelis abducting Arab suspects from prisons and lynching them? If such a thing did happen, would discussing the suicide bombers serve to provide any kind of meaningful context at all? I don't think so.

Same goes for here. There is no reasonable context that you could put the lynchings into that would serve to explain them or make them seem at all understandable or reasonable. There was no reason for this to happen at all except as an expression of blind, animalistic rage, hatred and revenge.

[azurnoir]

34. Your confused?

or trying to create more confusion, failure on both counts Shakti. I am not arguing that event happened. The BBC article states plainly that it did, and with the exception of title there is little mention of lynchings in the BBC story are you trying to confabulate the OP and my post? Or are you confused? The men were not hung they were beaten to death as the story plainly states.
Still I find it amusing that one has to good back 8 years to try to prove that the author of the OP is going for some sort of moral equivelency, there have been how many Palesinians s killed by Israel since that time?

Oh yes the infamous I am excusing the Palestinians, I excuse no one however nothing happens in a vacuum, no matter how much you may want it presented that way.

[Shaktimaan]

45. um... ok.

Your confused? or trying to create more confusion, failure on both counts Shakti.

Failure on both counts? To clarify, I was confused as to whether or not you were challenging the events from 8 years ago, as pelsar reported them. You clarified that here, so I am no longer confused. I resent the implication that my post was an attempt at sowing confusion and your comment about my having failed on both counts doesn't make any sense. (I failed at being confused about your exact point? How?)

Still I find it amusing that one has to good back 8 years to try to prove that the author of the OP is going for some sort of moral equivelency, there have been how many Palesinians s killed by Israel since that time?

I wasn't arguing that the author was doing so in the first place. Regardless it doesn't have much to do with the amount of Palestinians killed, as far as I can see. Almost all of the Palestinian casualties were killed by the IDF... this is an example of mob justice which is how it parallels the earlier story, if at all. Personally I don't particularly see any strong connection, but I suppose anything's possible.

I always thought the reservists were lynched, but I must have misunderstood the use of the term "lynch mob." Obviously it was being used to mean any mob that's point is to commit murder, which makes sense to me.

Oh yes the infamous I am excusing the Palestinians, I excuse no one however nothing happens in a vacuum, no matter how much you may want it presented that way.

Well, I never said that but it did sorta seem that way. Not "excusing" exactly but more like "explaining the surrounding circumstances in a way that seemed intended to lessen the horror of the act by implying that there was a reason it happened." What you are wrong about is that I have no interest in presenting this in a vacuum. The fact is that NOTHING that happens in this conflict is without a reason. There is always a preceding event that can be pointed to (rightly or wrongly) as the instigation. I am not trying to "hide" any of the facts of the conflict to try and paint the Palestinians in a worse light.

My point is that it doesn't matter what the act was a reaction to. We don't look at these acts in a vacuum, we look at them in the context of all of the other events over the course of the conflict. Just because there is a war going on, just because a number of people died or because the other side did so and so, it can not be any kind of excuse at all for certain kinds of acts.

For instance, look at the case of the settlers who launched that rocket at the Palestinians. Now I could point out that they did that only after having watched thousands of Qassams fired at Israel. But that fact is irrelevant. It doesn't provide any reason at all for why the settlers launched their own. Not only is it not a "good reason" or "excuse"... I am saying that it is irrelevant.

Besides that, we all know what was going on when those soldiers were killed. The intifada was raging. You didn't point it out to educate pelsar, you did it to "provide context." And providing context in this case means "showing us that they had a reason to be angry enough to do it and it wasn't just because they hate Jews." I already know that though. But it does not make it one iota less savage or monstrous than if they did it because they were neo-nazis. They did not gain any kind of military advantage from doing it, there was no REASON to do it except out of pure HATE. THAT'S what makes it so horrible, IMO. If they killed the soldiers while trying to capture them, or on the battlefield it would have been completely different. Even if the soldiers had died while being interrogated for information it would have at least been for a reason I could understand, (even if I didn't like it.) But they killed them, on purpose, while they were locked up and helpless, after they had surrendered their weapons without a fight, just because they wanted to kill some Israelis. That the Palestinians had a real reason to be angry at the Israelis is totally irrelevant... these soldiers died for nothing save to satiate that anger.

Do you understand what I'm saying... why I see an act like that as different than causing deaths by a military attack or even by collateral damage due to carelessness?

[Sezu]

51. deleted by half asleep poster lol

[Cherchez la Femme]

48. I believe

most people can see that as a metaphor or synonym; not a literal, good old-fashioned U.S. Southern-fried-styled lynching.

If it was used against a black person, I can see the outrage, for there still exist raw cultural wounds.
However it is in the general lexicon now and is used widely and non-specifically; it is not taken, in many or all cases where blacks are not directly concerned or involved, as literal or 'original' in meaning and execution (no pun intended, whatsoever -- nothing to laugh about here at all).

It's usage, while not historically literal, nevertheless still is completely legitimate; and you are, IMO, trying to mislead, derail, and/or disparage the OP's entire post based on your own narrow definition of the term.

Therefore, referring to post #8, it is most certainly NOI "a lie"; the #8 post is a rhetoric attempt to have others reading this thread believe his/her stated propaganda (and sad to say, slander) hence negating the entire OP!
Quite unfair, IMO --and 'm not talking about the un/fairness of Israelis or Palestinians here, I am talking about the misleading rhetoric in the posts/responses themselves.

[notfullofit]

11. Consider the source nt.

[azurnoir]

17. Meaning what?

Please explain your comment was it the article? or the the person who posted it? perhaps my comment to Swede, but really you do need to explain your reasoning behind that comment.

[azurnoir]

21. On second thought I will consider the source

Sir by my count you have at least 20 articles posted on the front page of this forum of those 20 at least 15 have an anti-Arab tilt, the other 5 are a bit more subtle the one decided exception is the one about settlement building, just the facts or just the facts you want known?

[notfullofit]

23. I beg to differ.

Facts are facts. All should be known, not just one side or the other and there are plenty here who do just that.

You may consider the articles anti-Arab, I consider them to be anti-terrorist, anti-extremist i.e. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbullah etc.

It is with sadness that I see some folks on this forum who are not able (or perhaps just don't want) to differentiate between the two. The Palestinian people, mostly, have been been subjected to the harshest of treatments, not only by Israel but more importantly, in my book, by Arab nations who should certainly offer a great deal more assistance than they have to the good people of Gaza.

Those who celebrated in the streets after seeing the coffins of the Israeli soldiers I don't believe are representative of the Palestinians on the whole, just a perverse faction and they need to be called to account no matter what.

Those people in Lebanon who rejoice at the return of Kuntar should also be exposed, someone, anyone, has to do it. There are plenty here who are more than eager to point out Israel's faults, yet I don't call them anti-semites etc and I fully expect the same consideration.

Thanks for listening.

[Violet_Crumble]

41. And yr 'differing' isn't factual....

Until I finally gave up on reading any thread you started because they become a shiny magnet of generalising of Palestinians and Arabs (and you've been in there agreeing with one of the worst and nastiest anti-Arab types in this forum). If you actually thought that the Palestinians have been subjected to the harshest of treatment, why is it that every time examples of that harsh treatment is given in this forum, you try to dismiss it with claims that the source is biased and 'anti-Israel' even though you refused to explain what yr definition of anti-Israel is? How come, if as you claim you can make a distinction between the population and the extremists, you've made comments here that clearly indicate otherwise?

As for this: 'There are plenty here who are more than eager to point out Israel's faults, yet I don't call them anti-semites etc and I fully expect the same consideration.'

No, you just sat there in another thread and agreed with someone who referred to us as apologists...

[Paganini]

12. Frontline Report

A couple of years ago Frontline did a report regarding some of the settlers- basically the Kahanists and like groups. I highly recommend watching it. I, personally, see very little substantive difference between these people and the extremists on the other side. My wife's cousin is one of these settlers and some of his points of view made me wretch. One in particular was "1000 Palestinian lives is not worth one Jewish eyelash"-

The report can be viewed at the link below.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/view/

[Igel]

14. One doesn';t just look at the extremists.

One looks a bit more broadly to get a sense of society at large.

It's important for putting them in context, getting a sense of the numbers, of the likelihood of anything being done about it.

One also looks at fellow travellers, those who don't support the extremism, but believe that there's no justification for battling it: After all, it's "resistance", it's a "low-grade war", it's part of the "struggle" and "excesses happen".

I also like looking at the history involved to see how the attitudes evolved and hardened over time.