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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:37 PM
Original message
London summit focuses on plight of Jewish refugees from Arab states
<snip>

"Jewish groups from around the world are meeting in London to highlight the plight of Jews who were forced to flee from Arab nations in 1948 when the state of Israel was founded, the British BBC website reported Monday.

The conference is organized by the American-based group "Justice for Jews," which aims to "ensure that justice for Jews from Arab countries assumes its rightful place on the international political agenda and their rights be secured as a matter of law and equity." The group says some 850,000 Jews lived in Arab nations before Israel was founded and that most were forced to flee due to hostility.

The group, which campaigns for compensation for Jewish refugees, says that the international community has placed a lot of emphasis on the plight of the Palestinian refugees, ignoring their Jewish counterparts. The Justice for Jews coalition numbers 77 organizations from 20 countries around the globe.

The BBC reported that the conference is highly controversial because the number of Jewish refugees and the conditions under which they left their home countries are disputed."

more

justiceforjews
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. This will receive no interest at all
The fact that there was pretty much a population exchange (the number of expelled or fleeing Jews for the number of expelled or fleeing Arabs) is ignored.

Jews lost their homes and livelihoods when forced to leave these Arab countries.

They have never, ever been compensated.

They have never been allowed to return.

And yet the world cares only about "justice" for the Palestinians.

Sad hypocrisy, which could be viewed as anti-semitism.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Considering the Palestinians don't get this sort of press
we have a case of raging cognitive dissonance going on here.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Surely you jest
There is NON STOP conversation about right of return and compensation for Palestinians.

I wonder if you were actually being sarcastic.
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Zionismisnotracism Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Don't get press? There's an entire
UN agency dedicate to the plight of these refugees, many of whom never lived a day in Palestine.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I am sure that you deeply, madly and truly care
about the prospects of return for Arab Jews, and that nothing would make you happier than to see those 850,000 Jews pack their bags and go back to Morocco. Likewise, I doubt that a single Mizrahi goes to bed at night without first praying "Next year in Marrakesh".

Or at least they would, if not for the fact that every single one of those Jews could visit or return to Morocco tomorrow, if they wanted to. And the fact that Morocco is, frankly, not a place I would return to permanently if I could help it.

I asked you a week ago to back up your assertion that Morroco had forced its Jews to emigrate. Given that you failed to do so, it would be reasonable to presume you simply invented that allegation out of thin air. But seeing as Im a judicious sort of fellow, I thought I'd bring it up again just to give you every chance of responding.

So here it is again: you said that Morroco forced its Jews to emigrate. Provide evidence of this. It should be fairly simple, after all.

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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. You seem overfocused on Morocco
When there were Jews in nearly all the Arab countries.

Are you claiming that Jews could go back to Iraq? To Jordan? To Egypt?

As to Morocco:

When most Moroccan Jews welcomed the French declaration of the Moroccan Protectorate 1912, frustrated Muslims reacted by massacring Jews in the Fez mellah. Jews became Moroccan citizens under the Protectorate, though they were not afforded political equality. A fierce independence rebellion broke out in 1947 on the heels of subsequent Vichy French and Allied occupations of North Africa. The independence movement succeeded in 1955. As Morocco’s new Muslim government became more friendly with the Arab League, the Jewish position grew more uncertain; Jews tried to escape from Morocco but government troops captured and jailed them. In 1961 King Hassan II gave the Jews the right to emigrate, and a substantial percentage did.

and

During World War II, for example, King Mohammed V refused a request by the pro-Nazi Vichy France regime to round up the country's Jews for deportation.

Several years later, Moroccan Jews, like others in the Arab world, were attacked by the local population during the period surrounding the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.

Maurice M. Roumani’s book, “The Case of the Jews from Arab Countries: a Neglected Issue,” elaborates, describing the massacre of dozens of Moroccan Jews:

... bloody riots broke out in June 1948 against the Jews in Oujda and Djerada in Morocco. In Oujda, within three hours, five Jews had been killed, 30 seriously injured, shops and homes sacked. In Djerada, the Jewish population of 100 suffered 39 deaths and 30 severely wounded, the remainder less seriously.


and:

far larger number of Jews left the Arab and Muslim countries, due directly to the conflict, or to persecution of Jews in Arab and Muslim countries which intensified as a result of the conflict. In Iraq, Jews suffered a bloody pogrom in 1941, the Farhud, instigated by the Palestinian Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini and his coterie of Nazi-sympathizers. They were subjected to further persecutions following the outbreak of hostilities in 1948. Allegations that some of the violence against Iraqi Jews was instigated by Zionists are apparently groundless. In Morocco, the position of the Jews was perhaps one of the best among all Arab countries. Nonetheless, emigration was forbidden for several years when Morocco achieved independence in 1958, and was only resumed in 1967 and anti-Semitism was rife. In 1965, Moroccan writer Said Ghallab wrote regarding the attitude of his fellow Muslims toward their Jewish neighbors:

The worst insult that a Moroccan could possibly offer was to treat someone as a Jew....My childhood friends have remained anti-Jewish. They hide their virulent anti-Semitism by contending that the State of Israel was the creature of Western imperialism....A whole Hitlerite myth is being cultivated among the populace. The massacres of the Jews by Hitler> are exalted ecstatically. It is even believed that Hitler is not dead, but alive and well, and his arrival is awaited to deliver the Arabs from Israel.

(Said Ghallab, "Les Juifs sont en enfer," in Les Temps Modernes, (April 1965), pp. 2247-2251)

The condition of Jews in other countries was generally worse. Anti-Zionists have tried to obscure and ignore this persecution, and to claim that Jews from Arab countries were "victims" of Zionism in some way, but there is apparently no truth to their claims. (for example: Zionism for the Ages gives a clear picture of how Jews were victimized by the Egyptian government and society.)

In most cases, Jews were not allowed to take out their property, and in many cases they were forced to leave. This Exodus did not take place all at once in 1948 in all countries. In Egypt, Jews lingered on until they were forced to leave after the 6-Day war in 1967. The table below summarizes the data. Not all of the Jews who left Arab or Muslim countries may be considered refugees, but over 600,000 were apparently forced to leave without their property and are refugees. In addition to the numbers shown in the table below, there were about 100,000 Jews in Iran in 1948. At the time of the Khomeini revolution in 1979, there were about 80,000. About 55,000 found life impossible under the Islamist revolution and fled Iran, leaving abut 25,000 in 2004. Of course the current population of such refugees and their descendants must be numbered in the millions.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Instead of copying and pasting from zealoted pro-Israeli sources...
Edited on Tue Jun-24-08 06:23 AM by Violet_Crumble
Any chance you could supply something that doesn't contain a give-away rant labelling anyone who doesn't agree with them as anti-Zionists?


Oh yeah. And it'd actually helped if you copied and pasted something that actually supported what you claimed instead of being the opposite of it...
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Because there were more Jews in Morocco and Algeria than in all the other Arab states combined

Are you claiming that Jews could go back to Iraq?

I doubt that anyone could go back to Iraq as it stands.

To Jordan?

I havent heard of any large Jewish populations of Transjordanian (East Banker) descent. There could be a few I suppose. Most Arab Jews came from the Tahgreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) so obviously if this is a genuine issue, most of the emphasis should be on those states.

Of course I doubt very much whether this is a genuine issue and I think that you are simply trying to skew history to equate the exodus of Jews from Arab lands with the expulsion of the Palestinians, and to try and argue that it was a "fair trade" ignoring of course that the Palestinians that were expelled from Palestine had no connection to the Moroccans.

To Egypt?

While the fate of Egypt's Jews was tragic, Israel bears much of the blame for this. Most of Egypt's Jews remained in Egypt until the mid-1950s. The Lavon affair created a difficult situation for Egypt's Jews and the unprovoked invasion of Egypt by Israel in 1956 made it unsustainable. They deserve recognition for their losses, but Israel in my opinion owes them as great an apology as the Egyptians.

When most Moroccan Jews welcomed the French declaration of the Moroccan Protectorate 1912 blah blah blah cut and paste from Wikipedia...

There were two significant pogroms of Jews in Morocco in 1948 and 1953. From memory approximately four dozen Jews were killed in these two massacres. While unjustifiable, this has to be contrasted with roughly 50 massacres of Arab citizens by Jews in the first year of Israel's existence, amounting to some several thousand Arab deaths.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. What a stupid comment...
1. It wasn't in any way, shape or form a population exchange...

2. Of course this subject receives interest. It's not the nonstop interest you'd wish to see where any interest in the Palestinians vanishes, but there's definately interest...

3. If you see it as hypocrisy and anti-semitism (WTF???), then wouldn't you agree that someone who goes on and on about Jews not being allowed to return (I wasn't aware that any wanted to, btw) yet labels Palestinians as whiny cry-babies who should just get over it and move on as both hypocritical and an Arab-hater?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is a good thing that the existence of this large group of people is recognized.
Edited on Mon Jun-23-08 02:10 PM by LeftishBrit
There is a tendency among many to assume that ALL Jews are of Europaean origin. Many people are truly unaware of the existence of Jews of recent Middle Eastern origin.

Their plight is not nearly as bad as that of the Palestinian refugees; but that is to a large extent due to the fact that Israel treats Jewish immigrants far better than most Arab states treat Arab immigrants. Although there is some discrimination in Israel against 'Mizrahi' Jews, it doesn't begin to compare with the ways in which Palestinian refugees are generally treated in Arab countries.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. THE FORGOTTEN REFUGEES: the causes of the post-1948 Jewish Exodus from Arab Countries
Philip Mendes Latrobe University
Presented at the 14 Jewish Studies Conference Melbourne March 2002


This paper explores the question of the other Middle Eastern refugees - the Jews who fled or were expelled from Arab countries between 1948 and the mid 1950s. Specific attention is drawn to the experience of Iraq.

Using relevant literature, the author analyses the two principal and polarised versions of the exodus: the Zionist position which attributes the Jewish exodus almost solely to Arab violence or threats of violence; and the Arab or anti-Zionist position which assigns responsibility to a malicious Zionist conspiracy. This paper suggests a middle-ground or less polarised version which acknowledges the role of both anti-Jewish hostility, and the attraction of Zionism and the newly-created State of Israel.

Some comparison is also made between the Jewish exodus, and the slightly earlier Palestinian exodus. Whilst acknowledging certain similarities, the author rejects as overly simplistic the specific equation of the two exoduses, or the notion that they constituted a legitimate exchange of populations.

http://labyrinth.net.au/~ajds/mendes_refugees.htm

This is a really good paper, btw...



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