Palestinian, U.N. demonization of Israel continues

[Herschel]

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0703/mowbray_2003_07_23.php3

"As Israel moves to meet the requirements laid out for it under the so-called "road map" to peace, it does so alone. Other key players, namely the Palestinian Authority and the United Nations, are up to their old tricks.



Two recent events clearly illustrate the real obstacles to peace: a just-released report on the new textbooks used in Palestinian schools and the latest shenanigans of the U.N. Human Rights Commission under the leadership of a Libyan "judge." In each instance, Israel is demonized just as it was before the much-publicized efforts for "peace."



Palestinian schoolchildren are still learning that Israelis are brutal oppressors responsible for Palestinian suffering, according to a new study authored by the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace. Because the Palestinian Authority has replaced half of its textbooks since 2000, Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace examined the new materials to determine how much change has actually occurred. The answer: very little."

Oh, my.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

1. This may sound quite stupid...

and it's probably been reiterated on here many many times, but I'll go ahead and say it anyways. I just believe that both sides have committed a lot of transgressions and that neither side has the high moral ground. I think that we need a president who is both Pro israel and pro Palestinian like Kucinich said, even though I'm a Kerry supporter. I'm one of those people who believe that you can be pro israel and pro palestinian, much like you can be both pro life and pro choice. I value the sanctity of all life, but I understand that it is not my choice to make. There are a lot of examples like this in life, and I don't want to go off on a tangent... I only want to say that I hope that one day there is peace in Israel/Palestine and that both peoples can live in peace. Thanks.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

2. By the way,

I say that as a Jewish-American. Kinda weird, isn't it? :P I'm living proof that not all jews are JDL/AIPAC members or supporters.

[Jim Sagle]

10. As unlikely as it may seem, I agree.

[Darranar]

4. I agree...

One must accept the suffering of both sides and attempt to understand both sides' viewpoints.

[Darranar]

3. There's a whole lot of...

exxageration in this article. The UN and the EU don't hate Israel, nor do they condemn its existence. The issue of the Palestinian textbooks is indeed important, and it is something that has to be modified, but judging by Abbas's poor position, you can't blame him for that.

The author does make a few good points, however, about Libya and Cuba being on the Human Rights Commision.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

5. A prayer for peace

This is just a little prayer that we say at synagogue when I bother to go, I'm sure some of you have heard it before. Most Jews want a two-state solution and do ultimately want peace there. It is the right-wing orthodox likudniks that give us conservative and reform Jews a bad name. :(



A Prayer for Peace

May we see the day
when war and bloodshed cease,
when a great peace
will embrace the whole world.
Then nation will not threaten nation
and we will never again know war.
For all who live on earth shall realize
we have not come into being
to hate or to destroy.
We have come into being
to praise, to labor and to love.
Compassionate God,
bless the leaders of all nations
with the power of compassion.
Fulfill the promise conveyed in Scripture:
“I will bring peace to the land,
and you shall lie down
and no one shall terrify you.
I will rid the land of vicious beasts
and it shall not be ravaged by war.
Let love and justice flow like a mighty stream.
Let peace fill the earth as the waters fill the sea.”
And let us say: Amen

Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav

[Darranar]

6. I think that you are generalizing a bit too much...

There are Reform Jews who are extremely pro-Israel, and there are Orthodox Jews who sympathize greatly with the Palestinians. There are other Orthodox Jews who don't believe in a state of Israel.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

7. True...

but generally in America the more reformed and less observant a Jew is, the more liberal they are. I, for one, would make the assumption that my friend Herschel is an Orthodox or Hasidic Jew. I could be wrong, but that would be an educated guess. I myself am a reformed/reconstructionist Jew so I am moderate on the ME situation, and am both pro israel and pro palestinian.

[Darranar]

8. I am an agnostic Jew...

which means that I, as do you, fall most closely into the reconstructionist/reform movement. Some on this forum would certainly consider me far-right on this issue, and I know many non-religious Jews who are very conservative on this issue and very liberal in religious practice.

[Spintronic]

9. Fundamentalism doesn't equal orthodoxy

Just because someone doesn't eat cheeseburgers, doesn't make them an extremist.

On the other hand, if you wish to blame a group of people, why not point at the evangelical christians. Where do you think much of the money for the settlements comes from and many hard line views. Something about the need for Jews in Israel on judgement day if I remember.

[bemildred]

11. A story ...

Here is an eyewitness account of what happened in the Polish town
Dabrowa Gornicza when the Germans found Rabbi Issac (the ghettos
chief rabbi) and his Hasidic disciples hiding in an undergorund
shelter:

The Nazis drove them to the local Jewish cemetary ... The
Hasidim were dressed in their prayer shawls and had a bottle of
vodka which they managed to bring to the cemetary. There, facing
their executioners, as the account goes, "they drank lechayim
to each other, held hands and began to dance, and were
shot down as they danced.

Such men are worthy of the highest respect. It is by our actions
that we are all judged.

(I stole this from a book, but it seems fitting.)

[newyorican]

12. Wasn't the original complaint on textbooks

that they were inciting kids to kill jews?

If this upsets you:

"Palestinian schoolchildren are still learning that Israelis are brutal oppressors responsible for Palestinian suffering..."

then you must want textbooks to only contain one-way driving directions to Jordon. Here's a clue, from the Palestinian perspective, Israelis are brutal oppressors responsible for much suffering. Here's another clue, stop the brutal oppression if you want this passage changed to past tense.

But that's not the point of posting this tripe, now is it? More like here is even more reason not to go along with any plan that leads to peace.

Or is this just more childish fingerpointing - "They do bad things too!!" - in reaction to the inevitable bad news when human rights and Israel are mentioned in the same sentence. The fact that a Libyan is presiding over a human rights conference doesn't change this:

"Israel’s overall human rights record in the occupied territories remained poor and had worsened in several areas as it continued to commit "numerous, serious human rights abuses". "

********

About the source:

Why are all of these rw sites being brought up to support whatever point is trying to be made here? Here is a sample of JWR pundits.

World Editorial
Cartoon Showcase
Mallard Fillmore

Michael Barone
Mona Charen
Linda Chavez
Ann Coulter
Greg Crosby
Larry Elder
Don Feder
Suzanne Fields
James Glassman
Paul Greenberg
Bob Greene
Betsy Hart
Nat Hentoff
David Horowitz
Marianne Jennings
Michael Kelly
Mort Kondracke
Ch. Krauthammer
Lawrence Kudlow
Dr. Laura
John Leo
Michelle Malkin
Jackie Mason
Chris Matthews
Michael Medved
MUGGER
Kathleen Parker
Wes Pruden
Sam Schulman
Amity Shlaes
Roger Simon
Tony Snow
Thomas Sowell
Cal Thomas
Jonathan S. Tobin
Ben Wattenberg
George Will
Bruce Williams
Walter Williams
Mort Zuckerman

If you must associate yourself with trash repeatedly in search of topics to make a point, make it real good point next time.

[Darranar]

13. Its far worse than that...

they are inciting Palestinians to violence against Jews and telling them that the Jews have no right to exist there. They are promoting lies for the sake of racism and hatred.

[newyorican]

14. The article does not state what you assert.

In fact the article states clearly that what you assert is not the case currently.

You are repeating out-of-date information intentionally. Why?

On Edit: Of course you *could* address the horrible human right record of Israel, but it so much more fun to pull out-of-date talking points out of your ass, isn't it?

[Darranar]

15. You must have missed this...

To this day, jihad and martyrdom are exalted. Palestinian schoolchildren are taught not just to hate Jews but to kill them.
I understated the situation because of the bias inherent in the Jewish World Review. I most certainly didn't overstate it.

[newyorican]

16. Oh I didn't miss that garbage

I wanted to see if you would hang your hat on editorializing from a rightwing rag. You did. Out of desperation? Who knows?

Must be comforting to discuss how bad those Arabs (and "West Asians" and Europeans and UN) just want to destroy Israel when the core issue at hand is Israels abysmal human rights record. But some whackos want to respond by railing about Palestinian textbooks *again*. :eyes: What's the matter, Arafat is *still there* you know, or is that line of demonization running thin also.

Responding to documented human right abuses by talking about some damn textbooks is tantamount to pleading "no contest".

[Darranar]

17. Uhh...

This thread is not about human rights abuses by Israel. It is about the textbooks done by the Palestinians and the unfair treatment of the Israelis. It is indeed more than a bit biased, but some of the points raised are indeed legitimate.

[newyorican]

19. biased, but legitimate

:crazy:

[Darranar]

20. Exactly...

Though much of it must indeed be taken as a grain of salt.

[vierundzwanzig]

18. Palestinian schoolchildren

A recently released study found that Palestinian schoolbooks do not encourage violence or vindictive attitudes. A different study found that the majority of Israeli schoolchildren had a very negative attitude towards Palestinians. I know I am comparing apples with organges here.

Nevertheless, I do not think it takes the schoolbooks to teach the Palestinian kids about oppression. Maybe the way to school already does.

That all aside: Ther demonization is rather harsh. There is criticism, indeed. This criticism has to do that 'the roadmap to peace' is no such thing. It is not about ending the annexation of West Bank and Gaza )(as far as that is possible) but more about Israel adhering to internationally acknowledged laws, the prime violation being an Apartheid state.

We as Americans are so used to our equal rights before the law that we even conceive of the disparity. Israel still is a country with the front of the bus reserved for whites (figuratively speaking) and that is the phenomenon that needs to be addressed.

It is not about a couple of acres here or the release of some prisoners. It isn't even really that much about the Palestinians when it gets down to it.

Once therre is freedom of movement, right to asssembly, freedom of religion, equality before the law, no longer 'Jews-only' roads or 'Arab licenseplates' and the Israeli mindset gravitates towards the establishment of a democratic government - then, and only then - will there be peace.

[Darranar]

21. Only when there is...

a Palestinian state that condemns terrorism in words and actions will there be peace. You missed that little part about terrorism.

[LeftistGorilla]

22. Will never happen...

seeing as Palestinians will never get a state.... condeming terrorism or not...

[Darranar]

23. Perhaps...

But I certainly hope they will get a state, and that that staate will condemn terrorism.

[Aidoneus]

24. a bit of hypocrisy here

One who wishes that "animals in a West Bank zoo" dying was in reference to people you don't like, then turning around and whining about "demonization".. the tragic irony here can be cut with a knife and shouldn't need to be further pointed out.

[Darranar]

25. Terrorists...

Frankly, I don't care if someone demonizes terrorists.

[Aidoneus]

26. just as long as it isn't the "terrorists" on your team,

right? when it's "the other guys", they're the "terrorists". how original.

[Darranar]

27. I have no sympathy for those IDF soldiers...

and they exist, who slaughter and brutalize Palestinians. I would no reject to demonizations of them, as long as it does not extend to saying that all IDF soldiers are terrorists and taht the IDF is a terrorist organization.

[Aidoneus]

28. ok

I always appreciate having my wrong assumptions corrected.
Though I suspect there are a few others here who are not of the same fair-ish (not a real word, I know..) opinion.