Palestinians condemn Obama speech

[notfullofit]

From correspondents in Gaza City
June 05, 2008 02:55am

A SPEECH by US Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict drew condemnation from both sides of the Palestinian divide today.

The Islamist Hamas movement that rules the Gaza Strip slammed the speech to a powerful US-Israeli lobby group in Washington, saying it confirmed US "hostility" to Arabs and Muslims.

"We consider the statements of Obama to be further evidence of the hostility of the American administration to Arabs and Muslims," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.

In the speech, Senator Obama reaffirmed his support for Israel and said Jerusalem should remain Israel's "undivided" capital.

Palestinians, including moderate president Mahmoud Abbas, have demanded that east Jerusalem - occupied and annexed by Israel in the 1967 war - be the capital of their promised future state.

The international community, including the United States, has never recognised Israel's claim over the whole city and virtually every country in the world has its embassy in the seaside city of Tel Aviv.

Senator Obama's comments on Jerusalem to the American Israel Public Affairs Council (AIPAC) also drew criticism from Mr Abbas.

"We reject these words," Mr Abbas said in the Palestinian political capital of Ramallah.

"Jerusalem is one of the files under negotiation. The entire world knows perfectly well that we will never accept a state without (east) Jerusalem (as its capital). That should be clear."

Earlier top Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat also slammed Senator Obama.

"His remarks on Jerusalem cast doubt over the chances of peace," Mr Erakat said.

"We reject the positions of Barack Obama because they are in contradiction with the traditional positions of the United States which considers that east Jersualem is under occupation."

Senator Obama did say he would push for a negotiated settlement to the decades-old conflict if he is elected to the White House in November.

Mr Abu Zuhri said Senator Obama's statements on Jerusalem "confirm the consensus of the two American political parties on unlimited aid to the (Israeli) occupation at the expense of Palestinians and Arabs".

The speech, he said, "destroys any hope for change in American policies toward the Arab-Israeli conflict".

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23813513-5005361,00.html

[dtotire]

1. This may be Political Posturing

He has to modify this statement if he wants peace in the Mideast.

[shaayecanaan]

29. It is

virtually every presidential candidate has promised to move the embassy from Tel Aviv. They never do. Thats what they have State Departments for, to talk the leaders out of acting on all the shitty ideas that they have. It didnt work during the Bush years.

Harry Truman was asked once why he didnt move the embassy to Jerusalem, as he promised he would do:- "The view from the White House window looks a bit different from the outside". Quite.

[RethugAssKicker]

2. I agree... His position is pretty much the same as the neo-cons

except that he will have discussions with Iran.

I am truly disappointed, but expected it.. It seems that AIPAC and Israel
have complete control over Americas ME policies.

[Vegasaurus]

3. What, you'd rather have an American president

who kisses the asses of terrorists, rogue dictators, or governments that oppress their people (we already do support such nations)?

You'd rather we support nations that yell, "Death to America" and burn American flags and effigies of our presidents (even if I don't like him, I wouldn't burn an effigy of him)?

America is controlled by corporations and big oil, which do dictate what happens in the middle east.

The only reason the US cares about Israel is for geopolitical reasons.

Not for any other, but because it keeps them with a foothold there for the oil.

[RethugAssKicker]

4. Are you aware of the opression Israel imposes on Palestinians?

Educate yourself....outside of the MSM box.

The occupation of Palestine is basically apartheid.

[notfullofit]

5. Are you referring to

the occupation by Hamas?

[thewiseguy]

6. Are you trying to be funny?

[Scurrilous]

7. That's the second time I've seen someone post that.

Must be a new talking point.

[RethugAssKicker]

9. you obviously have an agenda..... and don't give a fuck

about the misery that Israel is causing the Palestinians.

[notfullofit]

10. Hamas

is the one causing the Palestinian people to suffer.
If they quit with the rocket attacks on innocent Israeli civilians Israel would have no need to retaliate.

Hey, Obama happens to agree with me.

[oberliner]

11. Hamas is a terrorist organization

We should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel, renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements.

- Barack Obama

Anyone who espouses that position does not "have an agenda", they simply agree with the Democratic nominee for president whom we are all working to help get elected.

[notfullofit]

12. Thank you. nt

[shaayecanaan]

13. The only reason the US cares about Israel...because it keeps them with a foothold there for the oil.

I know you've repeated this several times before, but I still find your naivete and general obliviousness striking.

The US only started supporting Israel reluctantly in 1973, after Israel waved their nuclear weapons around and threatened to use them against the Egyptians unless they received American assistance. Both Kissinger and Nixon authorised the airlift of arms to Israel with heavy hearts knowing that it all likelihood it would devastate their relations with the Arab states and compromise their ability to buy cheap oil.

Rather predictably, after the US supported Israel in the 73 war the Arab states launched a successful oil embargo which pushed the price of oil from $18 to over $40 virtually overnight. From that point onwards, neither the US nor Europe would be able to buy cheap oil again. The effect was that Western Europe and Japan began supporting the Arab states diplomatically, and only the fact that the US was still largely self-sufficient in oil prevented Israel's political isolation from becoming complete.

As far as "footholds" go, the US does not maintain any standing military force in Israel as it would be virtually useless to do so, whereas the US does have forces in Yemen, Oman, the UAE, etc. Besides the fact that not a single Arab state will allow airplanes from Israel to enter its airspace, the fact is that Turkey is closer to Iran and Iraq and is larger. Even today, the US relies far more on Jordan and other countries to train Iraqi police, house military bases, etc. The only thing of any strategic value that Israel can provide to the United States is intelligence, and even in that regard, they are badly outdone by Syria, which being an Arabic-speaking fascist police state is in a far better position to detect the activities of al-Qaeda than Israel.

[notfullofit]

15. And of course

Syria is perfectly willing to pass along to Israel and the USA any intelligence they get on al-Qaeda.

[shaayecanaan]

16. You bet your sweet arse they are...

Syria passed on a great deal of information relating to al-Qaeda to the US - to some extent that relationship was severed because of the Bush administration. I don't know if you've heard of "extraordinary rendition" - the practice of sending terror suspects to "black holes" for interrogation. Mostly, this means Egypt and Syria. They are better at the job than the US and they have less moral qualms about going the extra mile.

The fact is, Syria in particular faces a far greater threat from al-Qaeda than either the US or Israel. It has every interest in making sure they are kept out.

[pelsar]

17. israel serves the US forces...

as a "forward supply base"...when the US forces in iraq needed armored humvees....israel sent via jordan its own humvees. When the US forces needed 5.56 ammunition israel has one of the few factories that meets US specs.....For political reasons the israeli ammo was sent to the US while US "made" ammo was then sent to iraq....

israei intelligence in terms of the larger arab world is considered an asset that no other western country has, and syria has serious limitations in that reguard.

and the Haifa port serves the US navy as it too has the US specs for repair etc.

[shaayecanaan]

18. Hehehe

When the US forces needed 5.56 ammunition israel has one of the few factories that meets US specs.

And Australia supplies the US Army with uh...kangaroo nutsacks to keep their tobacco in. The US doesnt go anywhere without its kangaroo nutsacks. Seriously, do you think the US bothers with Israel simply so that it doesnt have to occasionally wait a week for 5.56 mm ammo to come from home?

israei intelligence in terms of the larger arab world is considered an asset that no other western country has

Agree.

and syria has serious limitations in that reguard.

Strongly disagree. Why do you think Syria can walk through Lebanon in time for breakfast while Israel gets thrown out on its arse within three weeks? Hint: its not because of Syria's charming forty-year old Soviet tanks. Hint #2: its not because they're any better liked either.

Any secret state has inherent advantages in intelligence. Was the case with the Russians, is the case with Syria.

and the Haifa port serves the US navy as it too has the US specs for repair etc.

*bronx whistle* In your best German accent: "And for dis vee pay 2.4 billion dollars a year?"

Lets face it, with the prostitution industry in Turkey going from strength to strength, Israel isnt even the sole supplier of that particular service in the middle East any more.

[notfullofit]

21. Thank you again. nt

[Scurrilous]

8. I guess this means Hamas will be rescinding their 'endorsement.' n/t

[Phx_Dem]

14. Yup

snip

Hamas promply unendorsed Obama, a Christian who has had difficulty dispelling a rumor campaign suggesting he is a Muslim and that his advisers have a pro-Arab bent.

“Obama’s comments have confirmed that there will be no change in the U.S. administration’s foreign policy on the Arab-Israeli conflict,” Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri told Reuters in Gaza.

“The Democratic and Republican parties support totally the Israeli occupation at the expense of the interests and rights of Arabs and Palestinians,” he said.

“Hamas does not differentiate between the two presidential candidates, Obama and Mccain, because their policies regarding the Arab-Israel conflict are the same and are hostile to us, therefore we do have no preference and are not wishing for either of them to win,” Zuhri said.

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/06/04/hamas-unendorses-obama-after-speech-to-pro-israel-lobby/

[Vegasaurus]

20. I think not having terrorists as supporters

is very good for Obama.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. Obama's cravenness on this issue is extremely disappointing for sure.

Let's hope he sings a different tune on Jan 21, 2009.

[oberliner]

22. Many Republicans are certainly hoping to promote that idea

They have been working overtime trying to convince people that Obama is being disingenious regarding his position on Israel and that he would sing a different tune (as you put it) were he to be elected president.

As for me, I take him at his word, and believe that his statements on the conflict reflect his own personal beliefs.

[notfullofit]

23. Obama does disagree with Pres. Carter

snip...

Senator Obama, told a group of Jewish leaders he has an "unshakable commitment" to help protect Israel from its "bitter enemies."

He said: "That's why I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and disagree with his decision to meet with Hamas."

Obama said. "We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel's destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past agreements."

http://www.afghanistannews.net/story/349225

[Vegasaurus]

24. I agree with Obama completely

Hamas is filled with destructive violent terrorists who don't even care at all about human life, whether it is an Israeli's or a Palestinians.

Their actions show that they do not know how to govern a nation, since their people's lives continue to grow more desperate, as Hamas chooses terrorism over negotiation and peace.

There is no talking or negotiating with terrorists.

May they rot in hell.

[Sezu]

25. Psssst, Palestine. If you can't convince Obama....

it's probably YOU.

[totodeinhere]

26. The Palestinians should stay out of US domestic politics.

Senator Obama will continue this county's bipartisan consensus on support for the State of Israel. That should be no big news to anyone since every US president since Harry Truman has espoused that policy.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[totodeinhere]

28. No, that's not what I said. I said that this country will continue to support the...

existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.

That doesn't mean that solving the problem of the Palestinians will not require compromise, because it will. Neither side, Israel, nor the Palestinians should be able to call shots. And for that matter neither should the US. Our role should be to help in mediating the crisis, but we should not dictate to either side.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

30. The point is there is over-involvement in US domestic politics

and it doesn't come from Palestine.