The Silence of the Family

[Looking4Light]

"The hardest part at these crime scenes is the quiet: Each time my stomach turns over in finding the body of a young girl, and around her the house is quiet. Everyone stands silent. There is no crying, there is no shouting and there is no cooperation."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/814315.html

[hifalutin]

1. Not only is this heart wrenching,

it is sickening.
Medieval and truly pure unadulterated evil!
I am a peace loving little old lady and I still say hanging is too good for them.

[Vegasaurus]

2. And yet progressives are incredibly quiet about these abuses against women

Why is that?

[subsuelo]

4. Pretty offensive characterization of progressives there

We're not quiet at all about it.

[Vegasaurus]

6. No intent to offend you, since I don't know your opinion

but whenever the discussion has come up here in the past, and it has been quite often, we are told that "culture" trumps all. That we can't possibly understand the ways of another culture, through our westernized eyes. That imperialistic Americans try to make decision about human rights, based on western values, and that the culture has its own rights.

Seems to me that there are universals on human rights, and that honor killing like this should be condemned, even if it is an acceptable cultural practice.

There are a good many progressives who disagree with that pov. I don't know whether or not you are one of them.

[Tom Joad]

8. be understanding. what would vegas know about progressives?

Probably never met one.

[Vegasaurus]

9. If you're a progressive Tom

there's a reason I don't want to call myself one.

on edit: Would you like to share your ideas of cultural relativity, related to abuses like honor killings?

[Tom Joad]

10. So what brings you here?

" Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives."

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

12. ########## ######### ######### ####### and #####

[breakaleg]

13. I'd like to see you back up that charge. How dare you accuse someone of

favoring honor killings and not supporting human rights when they have said very clearly they do not hold those views.

[Vegasaurus]

14. Not wasting my time

The last time I proved something, the whole subthread was removed.

Maybe TOM doesn't support honor killings, but there are clearly those who believe in cultural relativity and that we simply don't understand these cultural practices, or they aren't very common, or any other of a dozen excuses. We have seen that many times before.

Again, if YOU are opposed to honor killings, that is good to know. This conversation comes up with fair regularity, so I will try to remember that, the next time any of the cultural practices that oppose human rights are excused.

[breakaleg]

17. Must have missed that. All I can remember is the many accusations you couldn't prove. nt

[Vegasaurus]

18. Strange. You commented on the post.

[Tom Joad]

15. just the vile and rancid stuff they come up with to avoid the real issues.

going into DU i/p forum is sometimes like opening a fridge of someone who never throws old food away.

at least here we have some honesty. Vegas has repudiated the label "progressive", and indeed, seems to hate progressives.

[Vegasaurus]

16. Oh no Tom, contrary to you, I don't hate anyone

I do have disdain for the "progressives" who don't condemn, and instead excuse, honor killings, oppression of women, hanging of gay people, suppression of personal opinion, lack of freedom of the press, etc. all in the name of "cultural integrity".

I don't know why you want to align yourself with those kinds of non-progressive values.

[hifalutin]

19. I am waiting for Tom's

opinion on honor killings...........tick, tick, tick........?

[Tom Joad]

22. I'm waitin for you to eat some pretzels.

[hifalutin]

24. Why can't you condemn this?

Or are you afraid to put your money where your mouth is?

[breakaleg]

25. Where is it written that he has to respond? His post in this thread was not

directly on honor killings and yet two of you are chasing him around demanding he post something on the subject. Why should he prove he's against them when you accuse but CAN'T prove his isn't?

Interesting tactic. I bet my 10 year old could come up with something better.

[hifalutin]

27. It is up to him if he responds or not but

in post #15 he was asking for some honesty.
I works both ways, or does it?

[breakaleg]

35. No. Read it again.

He stated that vegas was being honest in admitting he's not a "progressive".

[Tom Joad]

28. I don't take commands from the likes of idiots and racists.

to say over and over i condemn the killing of innocents?

[hifalutin]

30. May I ask,

or is it too presumptuous of me, who is an idiot and a racist?

[Tom Joad]

31. people who expect me to follow their online commands are idiots.

people who hate Palestinians and imply they are savages are racist fools, who are working against the interests of peace.

[hifalutin]

34. I'm happy to

say I have not seen anyone here who hates the Palestinian people.

[hifalutin]

20. We are not all

quiet about it, I said my piece and meant every word of it.
Wrong is wrong, period.

[LeftishBrit]

3. Horrible

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/

[subsuelo]

5. Definitely, it is inexcusable.

Thanks for providing that link

[azurnoir]

7. Thank you for the link n/t

[ProgressiveMuslim]

21. Jerusalem parents held in suspicion of torturing 3- and 4-year-old boys

Last update - 02:22 14/03/2008




By Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Jerusalem, Israel

Police are still not sure who is responsible for the abuse of two small children hospitalized with severe burns and bruises. The boys' mother admitted the abuse charges under interrogation Wednesday night, but later recanted.

The father has not visited his eight children since the Sukkot holiday. Several friends of the mother frequented the home and helped with the children. One of these friends called emergency services Wednesday night and performed CPR on the unconscious 3-year-old and was also detained
by police.
Advertisement

During a bail hearing Thursday for the parents and family friend, Judge Haim Liran ruled that none of the evidence so far fixes who assaulted the children. "Some of the evidence ties each of the suspects to the charges," Liran said and denied bail for five more days. The woman comes from a prominent family in the New York Jewish community. She immigrated from the U.S. more than a decade ago.

Jerusalem police yesterday called the abuse of the 3- and 4-year-old boys exceptional in its severity. Detective Aliza Aroch termed it "monstrous." Commander Bruno Stein, in describing the boys' injuries, said police could see the children had been tied up and suffered from skin lesions that resulted from criminal neglect. "We could see they had been beaten with objects, and had various kinds of burns resulting from heaters being placed against their legs and bodies."



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/964169.html

[Tom Joad]

23. anyone who does not condemn this act within the next 5 hours means

they support abusing children.... or that would be the logic of some of our crazed fellow posters at this forum. according to their logic, everyone must sign in, post below, and say this is terrible. Or the only alternative is to believe is that they support this act.

[hifalutin]

37. I was under the impression

that this is a forum where folks come to state their opinions on various matters, why else?

[hifalutin]

26. Child abuse is not limited

to any one set of peoples, honor killings traditionally are.

[Tom Joad]

32. why haven't you condemned this act?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. This has as much relation to the conflict as the OP.

[Tom Joad]

33. Local Teacher Accused In Ear-Bending Abuse

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A local teacher was accused of abuse against a student.

Student Luis Romero, 14, said his music teacher at Trailwoods Elementary School grabbed him by his ear and yanked him around during class on Tuesday.

The seventh-grader described the ear-bending as a painful experience. The teacher said the allegations are untrue.

Kansas City police confirmed that they arrested music teacher Connie Oberg and ticketed her for child abuse.

_____

Now where are the condemnations! the clock is ticking! 5 hours or we KNOW WHERE YOU STAND!
:sarcasm:

[hifalutin]

36. Now I think

you are getting an little silly when this is NOT a silly situation, nor should it be joked about.

[Tom Joad]

38. the situation here is amusing, these demands to condemn this or that

but no, hurting people is not to be taken lightly. whether in Kansas City, Jerusalem, or Ramallah.

[hifalutin]

39. Thank you.

I agree, bickering is silly and inhumanity is not.