Dershowitz calls Carter a "bigot"

[Truth2Tell]

Source: Jerusalem Post Video

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/Page/VideoPlayer&cid=1194419829128&videoId=1204546395078

Alan Dershowitz says former President Jimmy Carter is "an anti-Israel bigot," and that "there is a special place in hell" for him. He also says Carter "loves every Muslim extremist he can find."

I hope this puts an end to any remaining credibility Dershowitz might still have with reasonable people.

[melody]

1. Dershowitz helped defend O.J. Simpson

End of story.

[Phx_Dem]

12. So what?

Barry Scheck worked for the OJ defense team also.

[melody]

17. Yup, he did. He's also won freedom for a lot of innocent people. Dershowitz is just a blowhard nt

[stillrockin]

2. Stillrockin calls Dershowitz a "douche bag"

[subsuelo]

3. Not at all surprised.

Dersh does not have a handle on reality

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

4. Dershowitz can go fuck himself.

There aren't many bigger bigots than Dershowitz.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

8. EXCUSE ME?????

You now have the right to dissolve US citizenship because somebody does not AGREE with YOU? I'm guessing you're for Obama?

[subsuelo]

14. Oh, ok.

Because all Obama supporters believe in stripping US citizenship from anyone that disagrees with them.

:eyes:

[LeftishBrit]

19. You sound like a Republican

They also call Americans who have different views "not real Americans".

I have little time for Dershowitz, but I also have no time for neo-McCarthyism, whether from the Right or the so-called Left. In fact, it's right-wing, whoever it comes from.

[aquart]

6. Define "reasonable people."

Do you mean people who agree with YOU?

[Truth2Tell]

9. I mean people who don't

engage in over-the-top hyperbole and insults when participating in public dialogue.

[MaryCeleste]

21. Then you must feel similarly about Sharpton and Jackson

[Truth2Tell]

22. Sharpton, yes, Jackson, you'd need to provide a link

to a statement by Jesse Jackson that you'd consider out of line.

And of course that's not what this thread is about. If the best defense you can mount for Alan Dershowitz is that other people are also assholes, that's not saying much.

[MaryCeleste]

24. I was replying to the concept of who you find reasonable

Dershowitz is the typical high profile academic flake. No one takes any of them seriously.

[Truth2Tell]

29. I take Jesse Jackson seriously.

And sadly there seem to be a bunch of people who take Dershowitz seriously.

[msmcghee]

7. Thanks for posting.

A lot of wisdom in that clip.

[Truth2Tell]

10. A lot of bitterness and anger

that's for sure. Wisdom... not so much.

[Phx_Dem]

15. He made some great points

about the rise of religion in US politics.

[Truth2Tell]

16. I have no issue with the second 1/2 of that video.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[acmavm]

11. Dersh had credibility? Coulda fooled me.

[breakaleg]

13. Dershowitz is not someone we need to take seriously anyway.

[Malikshah]

23. Say that to US Academics in the the field of ME Studies. They might have

a different answer entirely.

[MaryCeleste]

25. I am curious as to why you say that

no one take academics seriously these days, even other academics

[Malikshah]

26. Dershowitz led the charge against Norman Finkelstein's tenure

bid at DePaul.

After being eviscerated in open debate and in print by Finkelstein, Dershowitz interjected in the bid and created such a storm that DePaul caved.

In the hellstorm that Dershowitz brought about, Finkelstein, the son of two Holocaust survivors, was labeled a Holocaust denier among other things. Pressure was placed on a University Press not to print Finkelstein's work Beyond Chutzpah (didn't work) in which Finkelstein shows that Dershowitz plagiarized materials for his own work, The Case for Israel.

It did not matter that Finkelstein had the support of such key Holocaust scholars as the recently departed Raul Hilberg; Dershowitz got his way and continues his tyranny and thuggish behavior.

The field of Modern Middle Eastern Studies in the US has been under constant attack over the last eight years by the likes of Dershowitz, Martin Kramer, Daniel Pipes, and the minions of Campus-Watch (campus-watch.org).

Careers have been hindered or destroyed in this vitriolic war. McCarthyism at its worst and Dershowitz is a key figure.

[MaryCeleste]

27. Point taken but most people still do not take academicians seriously

and not without some cause. The concept of tenure does not translate well into real life either.

[Malikshah]

28. Tenure is not a free ride-- Of course many feel it is.

Finkelstein has basically been drummed out of the field. No one will hire him. Why? Because he dared to speak out to the likes of Dershowitz.

Tenure allows for academic freedom. Freedom from being summarily fired for doing research on topics that some people don't like. Freedom to look into subjects, with rigorous care and erudition, and come up with potential solutions. To illuminate areas that need it. To help train people to think--to challenge them (often to the point where they despise you at the time, but only grow to appreciate the "lessons" learned later on).

Finkelstein spent years gaining an education and expertise. He live the 24/7 life of many academics. Serving his University, his discipline, his community. And he's been denied the freedom to do that at the hands of someone who uses his power for evil.

The search for knowledge and the training of others to continue that search is an invaluable aspect of our society. When it is hindered in duplicitous and nefarious ways, the entire society suffers.

Further proof. Just ask Socrates.

Sorry to see that folks still have a dim view of the academy.

As for the issue of not listening to Academics-- we would be in a much better position if Congress and the Administration had taken a basic course in history and had to pass it before they made their decisions over the last eight years.

It's already quite clear that no one in the current regime has the faintest idea about US history or the Constitution.

[MaryCeleste]

31. I did the academic thing, understand tenure well and find it a mixed bag

You layout the high road view of tenure, but in my experience, there is not that much really going on. Others lay out the low road, and there is not nearly as much of that as they would claim either. Also the current tenure system does need some reform. The current system has created a a small number of haves and a large number of have nots with major chasm between them. You can't really live on what an adjunct makes in most places, even though you have similar if not better credentials than tenure track and at times tenured professors. Been there, seen that.

I have some personal interest in this, as I have been an adjunct at several places over the years, but its a hobby not my day job, though I intend to retire to teaching (so to speak) either at a university or private high school. Unlike academicians I love teaching undergrads, especially at the 200 level courses where the students are really finding out if the field is where they want to go. Its the most rewarding teaching out there...but its not tenure track.

As for listening to academicians, remember that the academicians really don't teach classes much, and those that do rarely if ever stoop so low to teach undergraduates. Academics will teach grad students if they have to and do research (when the grad students are not doing it for them). Its one of the reason they have they reputation they do. Tenure reform may help that, and the over campus crunch that is coming will also impact that as well.

[Malikshah]

33. It is a mixed bag. My experience has been different.

Tenure provides some semblance of security, but it is also a trap and can limit one to one locale (i.e. no one will hire you should you wish to relocate and if circumstances at your place of employment start going south, you sink with that ship more often than not)

Then there's the loveliness of salary compression--where mid-level folks (tenured) can make less than new hires as salaries don't match COL increases and raises barely if ever cover the raise in health care costs.

Beyond the money issue, however, (as most academics don't do it for wealth--it's just some want to be able to survive and possibly save some for retirement)-- the issue you raise about academics not teaching is partly true. In my case it's not though.

I still teach entry level courses and will continue to do so-- we don't rely on adjuncts as it is a slippery slope for all involved. We'd much rather have established lines, but that's a whole other issue involving competition within colleges and the like.

At flagship public universities, I see where you're coming from. There's too much fat that needs to be trimmed. There are, however, more universities and colleges where this is not the case than there are in which it is. Teaching a 3/3 or 4/4 load on top of expected service, research eats up all one's time and sanity. The myth of summer's off is just that, a myth. Vacations are an illusion. You sneak in a day if you're lucky enough to get funding to go present a paper at a conference (which is expected of you--often on your tab).

Adjuncts and graduate students, and contractual positions are increasingly being used in the University system-- this, to me, is going to be the death knell of education in the US. The abuses heaped on Adjunts, graduate students and contracted teachers is clearly evident. As the Universities become increasingly "corporatized," the staff are treated as drones. The students? Even moreso.

But going back to the original issue--

Academic freedom is going the way of the dodo in the US right now. The anti-academic and anti-intelligence forces have been in full swing for quite a while and are winning out.

[Truth2Tell]

30. most people still do not take academicians seriously ?

Most people? Have you asked "most people" this?

[MaryCeleste]

32. Its certainly my impression

Even college grads have a hard time taking Deshowitz and others like him seriously. Perceived as ivory tower with non-real world agendas and little real world experience. Its probably worse among those without degrees.

Then again, I don't often admit I teach college either.

[Truth2Tell]

34. You may be right on a broad level,

but people do seem to take the media seriously (lord knows why) and those academics whom the media chooses to provide a platform end up with out-sized influence. I think this has been the case with Dershowitz - if not academics in general.

[Malikshah]

35. In my area of research (i.e., long long time ago)--scholars

avoided the public sector like the plague. They'd sooner jump off a building than be tainted by working for or with the government.

It was part of the package of being a scholar.

The same holds true today. Those academics that go on the news are often viewed by their colleagues with some level of derision--especially if they are asked to turn into modern day Cassandras and predict the future or, God forbid, to start pontificating.

My colleagues view folks who seek out the airwaves as modern day sophists--whoring themselves out for their own ego. "Choose your fiction, and I'll endorse it"

The government, alas, has no patience with nuance or reflection; academics have no time for intellectual dishonesty. Not a happy marriage in most cases.

In the end, I don't view Dershowitz as an academic. He's personally and professionally dishonest.

But like any side-show attraction, he sells the tickets.

[LeftishBrit]

37. As an academic researcher (not on anything related to the Middle East)..

I tend to agree with you.

But couldn't exactly the same be said of Finkelstein? He doesn't exactly shun the limelight of media publicity!

[Malikshah]

38. There's no comparison to the likes of Dershowitz. None whatsoever

Dershowitz is more in the line of a "public intellectual" (i.e., sophist) than Finkelstein. The limelight was thrust upon Finkelstein and he has responded and continues to do so.

The only similarity between the two, to my mind, is that both need to temper their words.

As to their actions in terms of going public-there is no comparison. Finkelstein was an academic and was following that path until circumstances forced another path.

[azurnoir]

18. sigh

sometimes I fear Mr Dershowitz is on his to doing the same "favor" for Jews that he did for Blacks by getting OJ off.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Looks to me like he's lost his mind

whatever of it he ever had.

[Tom Joad]

36. Dershowitz is a fascist twit.

I'd call him a pig, but pigs deserve more respect.

[number6]

39. no credibility with me

I hope this puts an end to any remaining credibility Dershowitz might still have with reasonable people.

[Jim Sagle]

40. On the contrary, The Dersh spoke the truth. The Peanut sssssuxxxxxx!!!!!!!

[Truth2Tell]

41. So Carter proposes

that the U.S adopt a more even-handed approach to the I/P conflict and that translates to "Carter loves every Muslim extremist he can find?"

I find it hard to believe that either you or he ACTUALLY believes that. It seems a lot more likely that such language is part of a deliberate effort to sabotage any civil discussion of the issue. :shrug:

[Jim Sagle]

42. Yeah, I'm a saboteur. That must be it.

Apartheid Jimmeh has seen better days.

[Truth2Tell]

43. At least you admit it. nt

[Jim Sagle]

44. I guess you're clueless without a sarcasm icon to clue you in.