Take citizenship off Arab Israelis: MP

[Violet_Crumble]

IN HER first week as Israel's new Tourism Minister, far-right politician Esterina Tartman says she wants to strip citizenship from all Arab Israelis who refuse to swear loyalty to their country as a Jewish state.

Her remarks came on the day a parliamentary ethics committee decided not to take action against her for recently attacking the appointment of Israel's first Arab Muslim minister as "assimilation" and "a lethal blow to Zionism".

In a television interview on Tuesday, Ms Tartman said "any citizen who is not loyal to the idea of a Jewish state, his citizenship should be rescinded".

About a fifth of Israel's seven million people are Arabs. Many say that instead of being a legally Jewish state, Israel should treat all of its citizens equally, regardless of race or religion.

In the interview, Ms Tartman said Arabs and ultra-Orthodox Jews who refused to sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel as a Jewish state and then to perform national service should be allowed to remain only as residents without citizens' rights.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/take-citizenship-off-arab-israelis-mp/2007/02/28/1172338709259.html

[breakaleg]

1. What a peice of work. But it looks like she may not be minister after all.

[MUAD_DIB]

2. What was Carter saying about apartheid...? Hmmmmmm.....

[Shaktimaan]

4. Well, she's crazy. But this is hardly an example of apartheid.

Notice she said that those who wouldn't pledge loyalty should have their citizenship revoked, NOT Arabs. She specified that this included orthodox Jews as well. So it is clearly about nationalism, which is far from beyond critique itself.

I will say this though. Her basic idea that all Israelis, Arab, Orthodox or secular alike, should be required to do state service is a good one and is consistent with the admirable goal of attaining true equality and shared responsibility for all citizens. (Even if this isn't her intent.) State service for Arabs obviously shouldn't necessarily be IDF service, it can just as easily be community based work or something similar.

Israel really needs to figure out a way to foment a stronger national identity that's based on more than a shared Jewish cultural heritage. Required state service without exception is a great place to start. The loyalty pledge thing is absurd, actions speak louder than words anyway. State service would be more than adequate to prove one's personal identification as an Israeli citizen.

[oberliner]

3. She's not the new tourism minister

Israel would-be minister gives up

TEL AVIV, Israel, Feb. 28 (UPI) -- Israel's tourism minister candidate bowed out Wednesday after a wave of criticism over her false claims to academic degrees.

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20070228-024903-5400r

[Tom Joad]

5. Like I said, racism is just fine for the Israeli cabinet, but they

can't lie about academic record.
Because Israel is "advanced, Western Democracy".

[Shaktimaan]

6. Right.

Lord knows other western nations would never elect representatives like Pim Fortuyn, Le Pen or David Duke.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Tom Joad]

8. Right. When Haider was part of the Austrian government.

you were in favor of continuing diplomatic relations with Austria?

I believe it was rightfully isolated.

The Italians brought back Fini, who only denounced Mussolini a few years ago. Naturally, he was invited to Israel, when he chose to focus the hate on Muslims instead of Jews. Sharon and Fini had much to talk about, no doubt.


My point is that it is time for the US to question continuing supporting Israel military while it is guided by such extremism.

[cali]

7. As another poster pointed out

Israel is hardly alone in electing racists. Democracies are flawed that way. You seem to believe that Israel is a unique evil.

[Tom Joad]

9. You seem to be incorrect.

as usual.

[cali]

13. Your words and sometime your absence

of same, speak for themselves, Tom.

[Tom Joad]

19. Absent? Was roll being taken?

absent where, how, why... what are you talking about?

[Tom Joad]

21. You seem... absent...

I don't think it says anything about you though.

[Tom Joad]

10. My question goes for you also. Do you think, as i do, that the international community

was correct to isolate Austria when Haider became part of the Austrian government? Isn't that also another expression of Democracy.

The other examples, such as David Duke, Le Pen, and so on, they were not part of national ruling coaltion (did Le Pen ever become a national minister in France??). god, Duke never made it beyond a Louisana State legislator, and only one (too long) term.

[cali]

22. Sure, I'll answer that, and I have a question for you

I believe it would be appropriate for the Internation community to speak out against Lieberman and Tartman and anyone else that espouses racist crap. I don't know what you mean by the international community isolating Austria; my memory of the whole Haider thing is fuzzy. What did they do to isolate Austria? But that's not my question. My question is do you personally, condemn Hamas for their racist charter? If not, why not.

Oh, and Tom, let's not freakin pretent that David Duke was the only racist ever elected. Strom Thurmond, and Jesse whathisface, to name just two, certainly made it beyond the statehouse. They were Senators. Not to mention some racist creeps in Reagan's administration.

[cali]

23. kick. I answered your question, Tom

Now, will you answer mine?

[Shaktimaan]

11. The thing that kills me...

is not that he (or anyone else for that matter) is criticizing racism within Israel's government or even that he singles Israel out for such critiques. It's how he insinuates that racism is far more acceptable or more widespread in Israel than anywhere else, which is a riot.

[Tom Joad]

12. Why are you not condemning this appointment?

And that racism exists elsewhere, or is worse elsewhere... is that some excuse???

this is about the Israel/Palestine issue. So it might be expected we talk about ... Israel/Palestine.

[cali]

14. You mean like how every single time

something that reflects badly on some aspect of the Palestinian gov't or society or the Palestinian cause, you respond with something negative about Israel.

Pot. Kettle.

[Shaktimaan]

15. aside from the fact that it hasn't happened?

I would condemn it. But that isn't why I am criticising you. My problem with your statement, as I said earlier, has nothing to do with condemning racism within Israel. It is that you set it apart from other western democracies in your statement by sarcastically implying that it was somehow not the equivalent of every other western nation in regards to racism.

As for Haider, do you consider the "sanctions" EU leaders imposed on him to be "ending diplomatic relations," (refusing to shake hands for a few months?) Ha. And as for Fini, I call BULLSHIT on you. Fini went to Israel (as foreign minister) to denounce fascism. You claim he focused hate on Muslims? Oh, or that Sharon and Fini had much to discuss, because... Sharon loves Mussolini? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

This is a great example of my criticism against you. Israel has Italy's foreign minister visit, although he was a past Mussolini fan, where he spoke out against fascism publicly. You turn this into Fini visiting in order to incite hate against Muslims and then to presumably discuss a mutual love of fascism with Sharon, Mussolini's #1 fan.

[breakaleg]

18. It isn't merely that this person is racist. It's that this person is racist against Arabs, and

seeks to remove citizenship from Israeli Arabs and that, along with the current treatment of Palestinians by Israel is a lethal combination. If she were appointed, that would make 2 racist ministers and perhaps mean that Israel is heading in a dangerous direction.

[Tom Joad]

20. Sharon liked Fini.

can you quote me saying Sharon loved Mussolini?

Fini changed the subject of his hate, but not the hate. He is still considered a right-wing extremist. and anti-muslim. anti-immigrant.

[breakaleg]

16. This is the I/P forum. Talking about Israel here doesn't constitute singling it out for anything.

[Shaktimaan]

17. Then I guess it's good I didn't have a problem with it, isn't it?

[breakaleg]

24. Redefining the right-left divide

How can one criticize MK Esterina Tartman, who was hoping to be appointed minister of tourism, for her extremist views? After all, Avigdor Lieberman, the leader of her party Yisrael Beitenu and the minister for strategic threats, is already notorious for questioning the loyalty and determining conditions for citizenship of the non-Jewish citizens of Israel.

--snip

Lieberman and Tartman cultivate a purist ideology, which encourages making Israel as ethnically Jewish as possible, not as large as possible, and increasing the percentage of Jews among the overall Israeli population, even if this results in loss of territory. Unlike the "traditional" extreme right-wing parties in Israel, most notably the National Union, that attempt to push the border as far to the east of the Green Line as possible, Yisrael Beitenu in some cases promotes instead the drawing of the borderline west of the '67 border as part of its effort to denaturalize Arab Israelis. While Yisrael Beitenu's hawkish sentiments make it still reject territorial compromises with the Palestinians, this opposition is not its raison d'etre, as it recognizes, if only half-heartedly, what most Israelis have already acknowledged: that a two-state solution is essential for maintaining a Jewish majority in a democratic Jewish state. Moreover, the focus on demographic purity rather than land size enables Yisrael Beitenu to collaborate effectively in a government that does not disapprove peace negotiations, yet is not actively seeking them.

The ideology of Yisrael Beitenu is not innovative and its electoral success is hardly surprising; rather these elements correspond well with the emergence of xenophobic right-wing parties that have gained public support and visibility in almost every European country, and which regard ethnic minorities as threats to the dominant majority. This actually indicates how normal Israel has become: We too have our own European-like extreme right-wing party. But if Israel loses its claim to moral superiority, it loses its claim to protest when extremists gain victory in other countries.

--snip




http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/832370.html