2 West Bank Churches Hit by Firebombs

[Behind the Aegis]

NABLUS, West Bank (AP) -- Two churches in the West Bank were hit by firebombs early Saturday, witnesses and clergy said, and a group claiming responsiblity said the attacks were meant as a protest against comments by Pope Benedict XVI about Islam.

The firebombs left black scorch marks on the walls and windows of a Roman Catholic and an Anglican church in the West Bank city of Nablus. Father Yousef, a priest at the Anglican Church, said several firebombs hit the church's outside wall.

In a phone call to The Associated Press, a group calling itself the "Lions of Monotheism" claimed responsibility. The caller said the attacks were carried out to protest the pope's remarks about Islam.

one more paragraph

[fedsron2us]

1. Frank Zappa was right.

Stupidity is the most common element in the Universe.

[rbentxxx]

11. The Pope

just doesn't know how to work the media.

[fedsron2us]

25. Maybe he is not so dumb

He winds up the Islamic world and they respond by fire bombing a Protestant church. I guess a lot of people in the Middle East must have been taking a nap when the Reformation occurred.

[Cornerstone]

24. Unbelieveable!

Beautiful just beautiful..:D

God help us!

[demosincebirth]

2. Muslim violence, again.

[IndianaGreen]

3. In response to Pope Ratzo's stupid comments

When it comes to religious violence, Islam is just a neophyte compared to Christianity.

All religions have dark corners from which violence is nurtured and justified.

[Lost4words]

4. Hi IndianaGreen!

so true, so true.

In my 50 + years I have learned that humans are capable if great lies, its humans that tell us about religion.

The only GOD is the inherent good that is within us, the only devil is the inherent evil within us. And the only Heaven is the earth we all walk together.

The rest is pure nonsense, and anything else is pablum for fools.

no one can help if we destroy our home. If there were a GOD she would be distressed that we are such ignorant followers of false faith.

8643

[IndianaGreen]

6. So true what you say.

I saw the rebroadcast of the 2002 documentary on God and 9-11 on PBS. It was really quite moving and interesting. I highly recommend it!

Where was God on Sept. 11? PBS show explores faith and doubt

One year after Sept. 11 on PBS, a two-hour "Frontline" documentary called "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero," produced by Helen Whitney, probed these profound, elemental questions. In the program's opening moments, the unseen narrator establishes the context for the scenes to come:

"Almost everyone has a moment," she says, "when they feel lost in darkness: a loved one snatched away, disease, natural disaster, human cruelty. Almost everyone at some point asks the question: 'Why me? Why her? Why, God?'"

"Faith and Doubt," which is being rebroadcast by PBS in connection with the five-year anniversary of the attacks, is a deep and difficult program. Many of those it interviews are people in pain, whether from grief, anger, depression, psychological disorientation, or a combination of emotions. They include fathers, mothers, wives, daughters, and colleagues.

One man admits that he cursed God after the attacks. "I look at him now as a barbarian," he says, "and it's a sad situation. I think I'm a good Christian, but I have a different view and image of him now, and I can't replace it with the old image."

A woman whose husband, a firefighter, died in the attacks is clearly sorrowful that she no longer speaks with God. "I can't bring myself to speak to him anymore because I feel so abandoned," she says. "But I guess deep down inside, I know he still exists and that I have to forgive and move on. But I'm not ready to do that yet."

Yet the father of another firefighter who perished came through his darkness differently. "I found myself closer to God because of wanting--picturing, in fact--that my son is with him. And now he's going to help me. I tell my friends: 'I got to be good. My son's watching me now,' you know?"

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/092006/09112006/220224

[Igel]

9. Did you read the lecture?

I'm fairly certain that the imams these morons were following didn't bother to. Probably couldn't. They heard a paraphrase of a sound bite, they're told that it's an insult to Islam and their Allah has been violated (presumably needing Plan B as a result), and they're happy to engage in a life of riot to restore their deflowered deity's honor. True reason, the wellspring of the bustling Islamic civilization, which always flourished most when the imams were in power. (Do I really need the :sarcasm: tag for that one?)

One of the real problems is the firm belief that Islam *never* spread by violence. No Muslim would ever do violence. To cite somebody that *observed* it, even in passing, is to deny that an older stage of Islam wasn't *better* than the present ones. It strikes at the core of much Islamic thought. Responding that Xianity was spread by violence is meaningless; they know that, and ruminate over the various massacres Christians undertook. They look down at Christianity for it--it's the claim about Islam, from the mouth of a non-Muslim, that's beyond the pale. And Xians, like Jews, must not be beyond the Pale. Should ME Islam accept reason, then their would be able to explore their own history without regard to the deep shame and humiliation they would then have to live with; should this happen, they would not protest the Pope's words, they would merely have the same response that Catholics do when the Spanish Inquisition is mentioned. However, honor and dignity trump historical truth and reason.

Oddly, some Salafists got it right: They admit that Islam was spread by the sword. Their logic is more true: Since the early Muslims did it, and were righteous, to be righteous the current Muslims must also do it.

[IndianaGreen]

15. I can't get past Pope Ratzo's comments about LGBTs and women

if he catches hell from the crazies within Islam, he deserves it!

As to my views of religion, it should and must remain a private matter!

Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man.

<snip>

Complete separation of Church and State is what the socialist proletariat demands of the modern state and the modern church.

Socialism and Religion (1905)
V.I. Lenin

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm

[demosincebirth]

18. "Spread the faith with the sword."

Sounds like violence to me. Guess where its taken from?

[COSPRINGS]

44. Violence shouldn't come from any "comments"..

And it is thankful that Palestinian leaders are condemning this and not making excuses, as you seem to be..

[crossroads]

45. AMEN! I agree with you! nt

[JI7]

46. Ratzo's comments don't justify it

doesn't say much for the religion of peace if comments like that will result in them acting out violently.

[manic expression]

47. Kinda like those burned churches in the southern US

this year (IIRC). Not really uniquely Muslim.

[bemildred]

5. "Lions of Monotheism"?

:rofl:

Pardon me if I remain skeptical about who might have done this. Sounds like the actions of enraged and none too bright teenagers, but a phone call to AP from the "Lions of Monotheism" doesn't mean much.

[Igel]

10. 'Monotheism' is _tawhiid_, I suspect.

'Unity', by any other name. 'Unity of Allah' is the implication. No trinity. No polytheism. A bunch of Islamist groups have it in their title.

It used to be opposed only to polytheism, kitabi ('people of the book') were honorary monotheists. I guess Jews still are monotheists, but they've got other problems these days. Anyway, increasingly the old distinction is lost.

Hell, some run-of-the-mill Salafist Sunnis even consider Shi'ites to be polytheists. Sort of Salafist GTA, 'general term of abuse'.

[bemildred]

14. You think it's a translation?

That would explain it I suppose.

[kamtsa]

7. "If you will not say that my religion is peaceful, I will kill you"

[Lost4words]

8. First I pray for peace then I pray my God kills your God!

is one of my favorite sayings. kinda sums up religion.

yours is good also.

[stepnw1f]

12. Weird... isn't It? (nt)

[bemildred]

13. Up to five now.

NABLUS, West Bank (AP) -- Palestinians wielding guns and firebombs attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, following remarks by Pope Benedict XVI that angered many Muslims.

---

Relations between Palestinian Muslims and Christians are generally peaceful, and the attacks on the churches sparked concern that tensions would heighten.

---

Ayman Daraghmeh, a legislator from the ruling Islamic militant Hamas group, denounced the attacks. Dozens of police took up position around churches in Nablus to protect the holy sites.

---

Christians make up a small - and dwindling - minority of several tens of thousands among the more than 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem. The Palestinian Authority has made considerable efforts to ensure the political representation of Christians.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PALESTINIANS_CHURCHES

[IndianaGreen]

16. Pope Ratzo is on a Crusade against Islam, unlike John Paul II

Pope remarks reveal harder stance
By Peter Gould
BBC News website

John Paul II wanted to reach out to other religions and in 2001, on a visit to Syria, he became the first pope to set foot in a mosque.

It was a gesture intended to help end centuries of hostility and suspicion between the two religions.

<snip>

One of the first signs of a toughening of the Vatican's stance came with the removal from office of Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald.

The British-born cleric ran a Vatican department that promoted dialogue with other religions. A distinguished scholar on Arab affairs, he was an acknowledged expert on the Islamic world.


Archbishop Fitzgerald: a highly-
respected scholar

The decision by Benedict XVI to remove him from his post, and send him to Egypt as papal nuncio, was widely seen as a demotion.

Some wondered about the wisdom of the move.

Father Thomas Reese, a Jesuit scholar and an authority on the workings of the Vatican, told the BBC news website of his concerns: "The Pope's worst decision so far has been the exiling of Archbishop Fitzgerald," he said in an interview in April this year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5352404.stm

[VegasWolf]

17. This Pope obviously favors a Mel Gibson type view of Catholicism. nt

[demosincebirth]

19. What ever type of Catholicism it is,

It'll never pass mustard here

[geek tragedy]

22. Let me know when he starts firebombing mosques.

Till then, looks like more jihad than crusade.

[Taxloss]

20. "Don't call us violent or we'll firebomb you!"

Sheesh.

[Truthiness Inspector]

23. If it weren't so sad

it would be funny.

Well said, btw.

[geek tragedy]

21. Way to prove him right, wackos.

"Islam is a religion of peace, and we'll firebomb anyone who disagrees."

[rug]

26. "Lions of Monotheism" is a lame name for a terrorist group.

[Truthiness Inspector]

27. Lions of Monotheism

Well, we've got to go with the terrorist group names we have, not the ones we wish we had.
:hide:

[cigsandcoffee]

28. Churches attacked in Palestinian areas following Pope's comments

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/cp_w091615A.xml.html

5 churches attacked in Palestinian areas following Pope's comments on Islam
Sep 16 12:31 PM US/Eastern

5 churches attacked in Palestinian areas following Pope's comments on Islam ALI DARAGHMEH NABLUS, West Bank

(AP) - Palestinians wielding guns and firebombs attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, following remarks by Pope Benedict that angered many Muslims.

No injuries were reported in the attacks, which left church doors charred and walls pockmarked with bullet holes and scorched by firebombs. Churches of various denominations were targeted.

Relations between Palestinian Muslims and Christians are generally peaceful, and the attacks on the churches sparked concern that tensions would heighten.

"The atmosphere is charged already, and the wise should not accept such acts," Rev. Yousef Saada, a Greek Catholic priest in Nablus, said Saturday.

[John Gauger]

29. Nice going pal

Try not to get your people killed, eh?

[saltpoint]

30. There's a lot of shit preached from fundie pulpits every Sunday in my

town but I don't go over there and firebomb the joint.

Someone takes offense at the Pope's remarks and attacks a church?

I'm sorry, that's hysterical bullshit.

[John Gauger]

32. That's because you know the

power of Love and Peace.

[saltpoint]

33. Hi, John Gauger. Welcome to DU.

It's more a case of what world citizenship involves. I don't like a lot of positions the Pope takes -- this Pope, or the last one, or the one before him -- but the response in Palestine with assault on churches is wildly disproportional to the words that prompted the attack.

If I disagree politically and socially with a lot of what Benedict has said, I still stand by his right to say it. That's a liberal Western viewpoint, but I'm from a liberal Western tradition. My guess is that the Palestinian church attackers might not be.

[Kagemusha]

36. Gaza, is a prison, and therefore, a pressure cooker.

The West Bank is little better but Gaza is bad. Very, very bad.

Given that, even despite the fact that Palestinian Christians have lived among Palestinian Moslems for years and years, and in the face of their non-Jewishness they've long seen themselves as in the same boat, Islamism is on the rise, in part precisely because conditions there are so bad. Therefore, in this atmosphere, these attacks, which would NEVER have happened there in the past over a few papal comments like this, have occured.

It didn't happen in a vaccum and the conditions in your town shouldn't be compared to Gaza. Not that this is good/acceptable/right in the slightest, even in that hell-hole, but as the original post said, it's a charged atmosphere.

[saltpoint]

48. Understand your distinction. But I wasn't comparing my town to

Gaza.

Gaza is exactly what you say it is, and I understand full well how explosive it is.

But I return to the disproportionate response to the Danish cartoons, to Rushdie's novel, and now to the Pope's quotation of an old text.

I side with the cartoonists, the novelists, the Pope (this time, anyway), and the peacemakers -- and I don't see a death fatwahs by some radical Muslims in that latter category.

Gaza aside, the radical Muslim reaction to the West to books and ideas is violent. It must bear responsibility for its actions and public calls for assassination of novelists, for example.

Does U.S. Middle East policy need complete re-hauling? Of course it does. Sooner would be better than later.

But long before Bush, radical Islam viewed the "Decadent West" as the spawn of Satan.

[Virginia Dare]

31. It is all according to plan...

the extremists and criminals will have their "holy" war. They will drag the whole world down with them.

[cigsandcoffee]

34. One could suggest the Pope was saying that Islam was violent.

What befuddles me is how the folks who did this would want to validate his comments.

[Hav]

39. .

That made me wonder, too.
I know that these guys were probably just fanatics and the majority of Muslims aren't like this, but they are angered by a quote that questioned what good was achieved by Islam and an explanation about how "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God"...and that is how they react? With violence against innocents? Good job there, idiots...

Seriously, we are living in a crazy world. After the cartoons, I thought that there was a reason why they were offended. Now I assume that some fanatics just use any opportunity so that they have a reason to blow something up.

[GuillermoX71]

40. Why does that befuddle you?

Criticize Islam for being violent, and Islamists threaten violence.

And the irony goes completely over their heads.

[Double T]

35. Pope Benedict is starting to act and sound like bush...............

these damn neocon leaders just can not keep their foot out of their mouth. This pope should be impeached.

[Zynx]

42. If you actually knew what Neocon meant you would never call the

Pope that.

[Cornerstone]

37. What madness is about them!

How dare the Pope make mention of the Pope who likened Muhammad's violent diatribes to Hitler? Why, we'll burn you all alive for that!

[fujiyama]

38. Not at all excusable or justifiable

but not all that surprising.

There is a lot of paranoia and anger in the Muslim world - some justified, and some simply hysterical. The Pope, as a religious leader, should understand those sensitivities - especially when many are convinced there is a clash of civilizations...

[Igel]

41. Of course. Egypt, Palestine, Syria ...

whenever the Pope (or the Russian/Orthodox Army) did something offensive, the nearest Christians or Christian symbols would be attacked.

It's called "justice" and "tolerance", attacking those unrelated to the person doing the offending. Time honored tradition in the area, goes back centuries and centuries.

In other news, this may explain why they attacked the churches in the west bank/gaza. Now, why was the Qalqilya YMCA previously torched by adherents of those putting the very words of Allah into such exquisite practice?

Same old, same old. New reasons always adduced for the same kind of misbehavior. Only remotely plausible when there's an escalation in misbehaving. Emphasis on "remotely."

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[Irreverend IX]

49. Lions of Monotheism?

Sounds like a great band name.