Crayons and glass litter Lebanese school

[tocqueville]

By Gideon Long
1 hour, 44 minutes ago


SRIFA, Lebanon (Reuters) - Every window in Srifa's main school has been blown out by Israeli bombs.

<snip>

"At least two Israeli bombs landed on the building next door. We didn't take a direct hit, but the damage is bad."

Srifa Mixed Public School is one of up to 350 in southern Lebanon which, according to the Education Ministry, were destroyed or seriously damaged by Israeli bombing during the war with Hizbollah guerrillas.

Schools played a vital role during the 34-day war.

According to the U.N. children's agency UNICEF, some 150,000 refugees took refuge in them in Beirut and other parts of Lebanon after fleeing their homes in the south.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060830/ts_nm/mideast_lebanon_schools_dc

[xultar]

1. Who wants us to disregard this story cuz some photoshopped

photos sympathetic to Lebanon surfaced a few weeks back?

[malaise]

2. Won't be me

We live on a seriously sick planet.

[tocqueville]

3. UNICEF photoshopped the destruction of 50 schools in South Lebanon

http://www.unicef.nl/unicef/show/id=53926/contentid=2526

Speaking at a UNICEF-sponsored gathering in Beirut, the minister of education, Dr Khaled Kabbani, said preliminary assessments of war damage showed that up to 50 schools in the south of Lebanon had been completely destroyed, while up to 300 others had suffered serious damage.

http://www.amnesty.ie/content/view/full/6313/

amnesty international is a specialist in photoshopping too

:sarcasm:

[Tom Joad]

17. Many think that Amnesty International is anti-semitic.

because it does the work of a human rights organization, which is criticize governments abuse of these rights. Because it also criticizes Israel, it is considered by some to be anti-semitic.

Of course, this is done by organizations that give awards to people who say the Waffen SS were victims just like Jews... that bit of anti-semitic shit was uttered by President Reagan. Yet Reagan was honored by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, for his "staunch support of Israel," and in 1994 with the "Torch of Liberty" award by the ADL.

[Taxloss]

4. What was the building next door, and why was it targeted?

That's what I'd like to know.

[tocqueville]

5. it probably contained a BM21 Katjuscha launcher

with a range of 3 miles. Since Beirut is located only 50 miles north of the border to Israel, it's an understandable error, aggravated by the fact that the laser-guided missile went astray due to the photoshopped smoke provided by Reuters.

[Taxloss]

6. Do you have a serious answer? n/t

[Englander]

7. It wasn't a serious question.

I'd suggest that if anyone wants to try & justify the bombing, or near-bombing of a school, then
ridicule, & not being considered an objective commentator are the inevitable responses awaiting
such folk.

From last month, more about the deliberate destruction of the civilian infrastructure in Srifa;

'Srifa was a bustling hillside village. Then yesterday the Israeli jets came

Clancy Chassay outside Srifa
Thursday July 20, 2006
The Guardian

Aliyah, 30, lay on a life support machine in the Jabal Amal hospital in a coma. She was one of a handful of survivors who made it out of Srifa, a village in south-east Lebanon. The man treating her put her chances of survival at less than 20%. "She has severe injuries and has lost a lot of blood," he said.

Fatima Ali Ashma was more fortunate, but not much more. She lay on a hospital bed struggling to breathe.

The force of the blast which overturned the mini van she was fleeing in crushed her chest, damaging her lungs. She sustained severe injuries to her neck and arm.

Speaking slowly and with difficulty, she described what had happened to her. "In the morning we woke up to find that 10 people in the village had been killed. The authorities told us that if we could leave we should get out. So we got in the car and left. As we were leaving, they bombed the road in front of us." There were 10 people in the van with Fatima: all were wounded. "No ambulance could get through. Everyone who could has left Srifa, but the dead bodies are still in the houses."

The attack destroyed 15 houses, killed at least 17, and wounded at least 30. It happened on a day in which 63 people were killed in the bloodiest day of the Middle East conflict so far.

Srifa sits on a hillside overlooking a coastal plain that leads down to a sandy bay which ends with the white cliffs of Naqora and the border with Israel. It was a local beauty spot, where tourists came to see turtles lay their eggs. But it is also in the Hizbullah heartland from which rockets been fired into Israel.

Yesterday, plumes of smoke could be seen rising from its red-tiled rooftops, outlined on the horizon, as the Israelis flattened it. "There was a massacre in Srifa," its mayor, Afif Najdi, told Reuters.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1824750,00.html

[Taxloss]

8. It's a perfectly serious and straightforward question, and one that

requires an answer before rushing to judgement about the damage done to this school. However, that has not stopped you and others rushing to judgement anyway, but that's SOP, isn't it.

It's extraordinary that every statement and action of the Israeli side of this conflict is parsed and probed into maninglessness here on DU, but the response of the anti-Israel crowd to the revelation that the facts from "their" side are being strongly manipulated or simply falsified is simply laughing it off. It demonstrates a striking disregard for the truth. It certainly bears little resemblance to objectivity.

Returning to my question, it was entirely serious. The damage to this school is all very upsetting, but what made the building next to it a target? The reports do not say, and I think that's a clumsy omission. The clear implication of this reporting is that Israel's tactical aim in this war were simply wanton destruction, which is patently untrue.

[tocqueville]

9. it was wanton destruction

attacking bridges and other infrastructure could be motivated (even if causing suffering on the civilian population and serious environmental damage)...

but FLATTENING WHOLE neighbourhoods like the Shiite quarter in Beirut, whole villages (even CHRISTIAN ONES like Maryayoun) under the pretext that they MIGHT harbour "terrorists' or to take out "probable" rocket launchers at distances where they couldn't even reach Israel, is nothing but a war crime.

And it's not only the "anti-Israel crowd at DU" that share that opinion, but the vast majority of Europeans and even other westerners informed by non-Rupert Murdoch owned media or similar.

I bet that you protest when the US uses similat tactics in Iraq or Afghanistan. The standard US Army answer is "sorry for the losses, but we thought they were hiding something". What makes Israel SO different from the US Army in Iraq ? nothing, except the local scale of the devastation. What Israel did in Lebanon was "100 Fallujahs".

Did they won anything ? no. A 2000 men militia beat the shit out of them, but 1200 civilians paid the price.

[Englander]

10. Strawman, ad hominem, propaganda-catapaulting.

Though, double-plus points for perseverance, & making the claim that others aren't objective, whilst
displaying a lack of objectivity, & for trying to justify the (near) bombing of a school, & for
completely ignoring the reality of the deliberate destruction of the civilian infrastructure by the
Israeli forces.

[Taxloss]

11. What is this, Lower Sixth debating club?

I could pick through your own rhetorical errors and highlight them, but I chose to argue on the issue, something that you are consciouly avoiding in order to provoke some sort of reaction.

Strawman, ad hominem, propaganda-catapaulting.

Ironic, as that is exactly your tactics in your original contribution to this subthread, and in this latest salvo. I'm pleased you note my perseverance. Your bullying efforts to shut down discussion go unrewarded. Grow up a bit.

Edit: typos

[Englander]

12. See above, & add projection.

The bully bullies, but makes baseless claims of bullying; the poster who needs to 'grow up a bit',
makes the accusation that someone should do the same; the poster who uses strawmen,&tc, makes the
accusation that others are guilty of doing that, but not himself; the poster who ignores the issue,
makes baseless claims that others are doing the same; did I miss any?

So, what do you think about the deliberate destruction of the civilian infrastructure by the Israeli
forces?

[Taxloss]

13. ... And written without an apparent sense of irony, fascinating.

I ask a serious question, get a non-serious answer, ask if I can have a serious answer, and you accuse me of attempting to feign objectivity and justify the attack, and saying that a simple and straightforward question is worthy of ridicule, and attempt to shut down any further debate in a bullying manner. Can we ditch the adolescent point-scoring and get on with it?

I'll explain very slowly:

The school was not bombed. The building next to the school was bombed.

Obviously, the damage to the school is very unfortunate. But it was not the target - the building next door was.

So, what was the building next door, and why was it targeted?

When that question is answered, it will be possible to make a judgement about whether this particular attack was justified. It may very well not be, but without the information I asked for, neither of us can say - therefore you have rushed to judgement by suggesting that it was unjustified. And by saying "the school was bombed", you're distorting the facts.

The unnecessary destruction of civilian infrastructure by the IDF is wrong and counter-productive. Some destruction is inevitable in any war, but I think there have been several examples of horrible mistakes on the part of the IDF, and some deliberate strikes that were unnecessarily destructive. Those are, of course, very distressing.

[Englander]

14. Hey, you can go first, let me know when you start.

If you produce a post that doesn't mispresent my views, or feature ironical insults, or include
propaganda, or attempts to justify the (near) bombing of schools, let me know, & I'll be along
to discuss the subject.

Until then, avail yourself of the report from ai about the destruction of Lebanon;

'Deliberate destruction or ‘collateral damage’?'

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde180072006

[Taxloss]

15. Considering the flexibility of your definiton of "propaganda", it seems

pointless to continue. Edit to elaborate: where was the propaganda in my original question?

[Tom Joad]

16. THIRTY-FIVE % of the victims of Israeli aggression in Lebanon were kids

Those that remain get to go to damged schools.