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Hezbollah warns Blair: you're not welcome in Beirut

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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:25 PM
Original message
Hezbollah warns Blair: you're not welcome in Beirut
The Times August 24, 2006

TONY BLAIR’S peace mission to the Middle East appeared in jeopardy last night after Hezbollah declared that the Prime Minister would not be welcome in Lebanon because of his support for Israel during the war.
A senior member of Hezbollah’s politburo has told The Times that Mr Blair should stay away from the country because he was “up to his ears in the blood of Lebanese women and children”.



British officials are confident that Mr Blair would be welcomed by the government of Fouad Siniora, the Prime Minister. But Hezbollah, which has emerged as the real force in the country, has stepped up its attack on Britain in recent days and Mr Blair would risk an angry reception from its supporters if he visits the country.

Dozens of foreign leaders, including the Emir of Qatar and the French Foreign Minister, have been welcomed to Lebanon since fighting began on July 12. But last month Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, was forced to return to Washington after she was told that she would not be welcome in Beirut because of the Bush Administration’s support for Israel.

<more>

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2326426,00.html
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, and they're making the decisions as to who can visit and who cannot?
This clown is a politburo Party member, not a member of the elected legislature. Where does he get off speaking for ALL the people of Lebanon???

But any hope that Mr Blair might be able to repair the damage was thrown into doubt after Ghaleb Abu Zeynab, a member of Hezbollah’s politburo, told The Times that the people of Lebanon did not want Mr Blair’s help.

Speaking in an interview at Hezbollah headquarters in the southern suburbs of Beirut, he said: “Blair is not welcome in Lebanon. I am not speaking on behalf of Hezbollah but all the Lebanese people. They do not want someone who cried crocodile tears to visit their country.


It's almost as though they're disrespecting the elected government, and thugging their way into control.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Blair can be arrested for war crimes
He did conspire with Bush to delay a ceasefire in Lebanon.

Let's see Blair walk through the streets of Beirut without his bodyguards.
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Well, it makes sense
Israel killed around 1000 lebanese civilians in an absurd retaliatory rage. Egging on this criminal act were Blair & Bush.
Now, sit down, calm yourself, and think. Not everything has to follow legalistic principles.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Wow. So, the elected leadership doesn't count.
That IS what you are saying. They can be overridden by an unelected minority party member making pronouncements. The elected choice of the people can be pushed aside and ignored with no problem, and has no right to conduct diplomacy as he sees fit. And that is fine with you...

Astounding. That's as far from democracy as one can get. I thought this was Democratic Underground, not Dictatorship Underground. Sit down and calm myself? THINK? You should think. Good grief. Look at what you just wrote:

Israel killed around 1000 lebanese civilians in an absurd retaliatory rage. Egging on this criminal act were Blair & Bush.
Now, sit down, calm yourself, and think. Not everything has to follow legalistic principles.


Legalistic principles? If the leader of Lebanon wants to talk to Blair, that's HIS business. For all anyone knows, maybe he would like to hold the guy up for a few hundred million in reconstruction money or other incentives. But no...you prefer leadership by the point of a gun. Never mind those pesky legalistic principles, like counting votes, and democratic representation.

How profoundly misguided of you.
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You really ought calm down.
You are attempting to steer this 'conversation' away from the issue that lends Hezbollah legitimacy. That being, the monthlong sequence of war crimes that were actively encouraged by Blair and Bush, and perpetrated by Israel.
As for the rest of your comments, all I can say is that you are, once again, missing the point. Anything Blair can do, can be done over the phone as well - There is no need to show up in person, unless what is wanted is a hypocritical photo-op.
I have mentioned this elsewhere, the victim here is not Israel, but is Lebanon. The agressor state, Israel, was held off by the only military entity willing to do so: Hezbollah.
This confers a legitimacy that you are having a real rough time understanding. Also, try to retain a semblance of perspective, since crying wolf at your erroneous interpretation of whatever I say is really just a symptom of your emotional state.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I beg your pardon?
If anyone is overexcited, it seems to be you. You need to stop projecting your impulses and emotions on others. It is tiresome. You do this every time you have no cogent argument. It is getting old.

You are saying that elected representatives in Lebanon do not count, from what I can see. Way to support democracy.

Blair and Bush aren't the issue. Stop making them the issue with a faux argument.

The issue is that an unelected individual is DICTATING the diplomatic policy of a sovereign nation. Or are you dull of comprehension and unable to see that?

But hey, put your fist in the air and yell power to the people, if it makes you feel cool. While you praise these unelected thugs, the actual people who elected their representatives in Lebanon see their representatives voiceless and powerless, overridden by some party hack.

They'll be in the arms of Syria in no time, if people like you rule the day.

How you can say that's OK is beyond me. If the PM or President wants Blair there, that's THEIR business. Sure as hell not yours. And sure as hell not some guy who does not even hold elective office.

Do a little research. You are showing your profound ignorance of the political situation with your pronouncements, and your declarations about other people's supposed "emotions" aren't serving to deflect your childish arguments at all. It's a cheap, sleazy, and lazy way of trying to make people stop discussing the issue, by making those foolish accusations, but it does not work. I turn your accusations right back on you.

Get over your "emotional" self, please, do. And do a little reading on the issues at hand. Stop projecting your excitability over these issues on others.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. From where I stand, Hezbollah has no say..it is the PEOPLE of Lebanon
who, if Hezbollah says they do not want a particular person in their country, it becomes too dangerous for that person to be there, not because of Hezbollah, but because of the INFLUENCE of Hezbollah in Lebanon. That is the fault of Israel not Lebanon, or Hezbollah. If they had said the same thing in June, say, it would make NO difference. What has changed?

If Sonora wants to meet with Blair there is nothing keeping Sonora out of London is there?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. The people aren't making this pronouncement
The government does have a military and security services to mitigate danger. That Hizb'Allah comment constitutes a threat, the official making it is unelected, and it does not bode well for the future sovereignty of the nation when unelected actors from a minority party are, in essence telling the leadership (it's Siniora, BTW) who can and who cannot visit "safely."

Suggesting that the PM travel instead is no solution at all.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I understand it is not the people, but it IS the support of the people
that is different. Like I said in June it would not have made a difference WHAT Hezbollah said now it does. What changed?

BTW..thanks for the correct spelling. I recalled his name, but have seen it spelled so seldom, I had not committed it to memory.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, what I think has changed is this
The elected government has been gravely weakened by this war, and Hizb'Allah is positioning themselves to gain greater power. They may do this with the aid of Diebold-style electioneering, outside actors (Syria and Iran) or by the point of a gun. In the worst case, the Christians may once again feel so unwelcome that they flee the nation. The Sunnis aren't uniformly thrilled by Hizb'Allah's actions either. The myth of Lebanese unity with regard to Hizb'Allah is just that, a myth--the only thing the various factions agree on is that they don't like Israel:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/25/world/middleeast/25sunnis.html?_r=1&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fF%2fFattah%2c%20Hassan%20M%2e&oref=slogin


At Funeral, a Sunni Village Condemns Hezbollah’s Presence

...“We kept beseeching them, ‘Stay out! Stay out!’ ” said Zainab Ali Abdullah, 19, who lost her father, brother and several other members of the family in the attack. “They said, ‘We’re all in the same boat together, so deal with it.’ But why should our children die for their cause?”...For many, the gathering on Thursday also became a chance to air grievances against Hezbollah, whom they blame for having brought trouble to their quiet community.

Criticism of Hezbollah is rare in southern Lebanon, where the group exercises significant influence and economic power. Villages like Marwaheen — which largely supports the Future Movement of Saad Hariri, son of the assassinated former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri — often miss out on Hezbollah’s largess but pay the price for its politics.

“There is no way for us to stop them,” said Ibrahim, who lost several relatives in the attack and who asked that his last name not be used for fear of retribution. “These are not people you can say no to.”...The town’s troubles began sometime last year when a local resident who had converted to Shiism was appointed the local representative of Hezbollah, residents said. Soon strange things began to occur: strangers came through for late-night meetings; trucks would come and go in the middle of the night; and a suspicious-looking white van was parked at each end of the village.

When the war broke out, rockets flew out of the village and a hilltop nearby, and the fears of many residents that trouble would come grew stronger.
On Thursday, one of the suspicious white vans was sitting next to the town mosque. The van had apparently been hit by an Israeli missile, but the launching platform for a Katyusha rocket could still be seen inside. A rocket that lay next to the van a few days earlier had been removed.

Residents said Hezbollah was using them as human shields. “One man in this village was able to turn all our lives upside down for just a bit of money,” Ibrahim said. When the villagers left, he said, the fighters did too, as evidenced by the limited damage done to the town.

“We want the army and the United Nations to come in here and protect us,” he said. “Israel is our enemy, but the problem is that Hezbollah gave them an excuse to come in and kill our children.”
....





Hezbollah has few fans among bitter Christians

Plastic sheeting flaps over a hole where a bomb ripped the side of the house in the Christian village of Ain Ibl in southern Lebanon. Only the mattress springs remain of a charred room where three of his younger brothers used to sleep.

"We are Christians. We did not not belong to any party," said Mr Andruous, 31, a video technician and father of two, whose younger brother, Rany, 21, is studying in Sydney. "What if we rebuild this house and they make war again? How can I live with my children here?" he said.....Although many Shiite Muslims support Hezbollah, members of other communities caught in the crossfire of this war do not.

"How can it be a victory when most of has been destroyed?" asked Elias Hasrouni, a Maronite Christian, who manages the local electricity company. "There's no work, many people left, many people died, the houses were damaged. Is this a victory?"

Ain Ibl is next to the flattened village of Bint Jbeil, where there was heavy fighting between Hezbollah and Israel. Imad Khoury, 38, the head of the local council, said the town is surrounded by Hezbollah missile batteries.

Hezbollah is dispensing up to $US12,000 ($16,000) to people who have lost property in the war, but Mr Hasrouni says he will not accept it. "We don't want to be indebted to Hezbollah," he said.

Residents who fled the town during the war returned to find bloodstains on their couches, or dirty handtowels where Hezbollah fighters had used their toilets, Mr Hasrouni said, adding that although many locals did not support this war, they could not stop it. Three years ago Hezbollah seized his olive groves for military purposes. He could do nothing.

"I do not like Hezbollah," said Mr Hasrouni, who still is afraid to visit his groves.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hezbollah-has-few-fans-among-bitter-christians/2006/08/22/1156012541229.html




New analysis: Lebanon's fragile unity cracks


....In particular, differences over the militant Shiite group -- stilled while the war raged -- are re-emerging. Critics of the guerrillas and their leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, have begun to speak out, with some Sunnis, Christians and Druse clearly feeling Hezbollah dragged them into a fight they did not want.

So far, it's all rhetoric and factional leaders have been careful not to actively inflame tensions, stressing instead the need to rally behind the government even as they criticize each other. ...the newspaper As-Safir, which has an Arab nationalist agenda, warned that Lebanese divisions could cause an explosion. "The country seems on the edge of a political volcano," it said on the front page.

Tension has most noticeably filtered into the reconstruction effort, with complaints from Shiites that the government was slow in acting. By contrast, Hezbollah was swift and bold in its show of aid.

Druse leader Walid Jumblatt, a key figure in the anti-Syrian parliamentary majority and a critic of the pro-Iranian and pro-Syrian Hezbollah, has been among the outspoken.

"Is this (Hezbollah) resistance Lebanese or is it a tool of the Syrian-Iranian axis on Lebanese territory?" he asked Thursday.

"We have the right -- and it is not treason to say it -- that we are Lebanese who look forward to a secure future without war of others on our land," Jumblatt added.

Hezbollah's support among the Shiite community -- believed to be Lebanon's largest sect -- remains strong, buttressed by the guerrillas' efficient drive to rebuild and help those who lost their homes by handing out cash.

Hezbollah's image as defender of the country also remains untarnished, even boosted, despite Israel's destruction of many Shiite villages.

Yet the group has not taken the new criticism lightly. Al-Manar TV, the mouthpiece of the guerrilla group throughout the war, broadcast an unprecedented attack on opponents, accusing them of "backstabbing."

"Why is this turning against the victory and completing the aggression? Is it because Hezbollah, the resistance and Lebanon has emerged victorious?" said the TV's commentary.

The anti-Syrian majority in parliament has been demanding that Hezbollah give up its weapons, but Nasrallah has said that is out of line and out of touch. ....

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=14af330c-8d06-4fee-9c1f-b9ef2635822d&k=75546






Lebanon’s new war to avoid a ”state within state”
...Refugees who had fled the south when fighting broke out came home to scenes of unimaginable destruction after returning to their villages and towns following the UN brokered truce announced last Monday. Some 1 million Lebanese in all were forced to flee their homes and become refugees during the war. Now, their anger is directed towards Israel and its American sponsor. However, there are also some voices which have begun to express anger over Hizbullah's decision to drag the country to war.

"This war destroyed our lives. Did they (Hizbullah) expect what would happen here in the south when all this mess started?" asked one southern Lebanon resident, who preferred not to be named. "We live in fear. Perhaps this truce will end tomorrow and again we will have to become refugees. We have lost our security".

Hizbullah does not want the country’s citizens to turn on it, and is fighting potential anger with promises to compensate locals with cash grants. Critics of Hizbullah, however, claim the money is coming from the group’s largest backer, Iran. Tehran is not denying the fact. "It is quite natural for Iran to participate in the country's reconstruction efforts”, said Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Hamid-Reza Asefi. ...Furthermore, there are questions regarding Hizbullah’s ability, not to mention will, to help all of the southern region’s residents. Claims have been voiced that Hizbullah prefers, first and foremost, to help Lebanon’s needy Shiite community, which constitutes the group’s support base in the south. Such a situation will likely leave many Sunnis and Christians in desperate need of aid unless the Lebanese government takes responsibility for their rehabilitation. ...In this relation, Arab diplomats in Cairo said Arabs want to counter the flood of money coming from Iran to finance Lebanon's reconstruction needs. "This is a war over the hearts and minds of the Lebanese, which Arabs should not lose to the Iranians this time," said a senior Arab League official, according to the AP.

These comments, which were aired on the sideline of a meeting of Arab foreign ministers, reflect a new trend following the war, stressing the need to fight Iranian/Hizbullah efforts to gain control over Lebanon’s southern residents. http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Lebanon/202161


It's not all "Happy Families" and Kumbayah over there with Nasrallah as the benevolent patron. And it could get worse.








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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Great Reply...
lots of ad homs, gorilla dust and other deranged accusations people who frequent this forum come to expect...

Keep up the good work.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thanks, appreciated! NT
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Them "damn brown people" they get so testy after being ..
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 09:34 PM by Botany
.... shot, bombed, and having their homes blown up. I guess the PNAC/
neo con dream of a pro western democracy spreading through out the
the greater middle east isn't going so well.

Come on Tony, nuts to Beirut, go to Basra and get chimpy to go to Baghdad too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. The stupid fecker's not welcome here, either. (The Uk).
It really is time he resigned & passed the torch to Gordie.
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