A weaker US hand in the Mideast

[apnu]

A weaker US hand in the Mideast
With American leverage seen as diminished, Iran and others have more room to move in.

By Howard LaFranchi | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

WASHINGTON – Even before this summer's war between Israel and Hizbullah, American influence in the Middle East was seen to be waning, with the US bogged down in Iraq and the Bush administration's signature vision for the region - democratization - increasingly controversial.

But as the US joins international powers in attempts to bolster a shaky cease-fire in southern Lebanon, American leverage is seen by many to be even weaker. That could have deep consequences in a tinderbox region that has long looked to US leadership to pull it back from the brink, analysts say.

One of those consequences, they add, is that with America no longer setting the agenda as it once did, the way is clearer for other influences - for example, Iran and radical Islam - to move in.

"There was a time when we really led, when we weren't the last ones to the table but were the ones setting the table," says Jon Alterman, a former State Department policy-planning staff member now at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington.

...

More: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0824/p01s02-usfp.html

[AndyA]

1. Hmmm, perhaps this explains why Bush is hiding in Kennebunkport,

no doubt with his tail between his legs, sucking his thumb, and lying in the fetal position in a closet. Things just aren't going as he planned, Iraq is not mission accomplished, the majority of Americans do not approve of the job he's doing, and many outright despise him.

But let's face it, when you have a clown representing you, you aren't going to garner a lot of respect. And what we have with George Bush is less than a clown. He's just a joke, and a bad one at that.

George W. Bush: Worst. President. EVER. Compared to Bush, Nixon doesn't seem so bad.

[IndianaGreen]

2. This is good

The United States should pull out of the Middle East altogether and should stop arms sales to all the countries in the region, without exceptions.

[msmcghee]

3. Of course, if this happened . .

. . the mideast would erupt in a conflagration that would make everything that has happened there since 1948 look like a high school debate. The result would be millions of dead Arabs and quite a few dead Israelis too.

But, if Israel was eventually destroyed (which is doubtful without the nuclear destruction of several Arab capitals) I'd imagine many here would feel it was all justified - all so that the Arabs could go back to killing each other without the unifying distraction of Jews in their midst.

Sad.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Muslims and Jews lived together in peace until the white man showed up

The US has no business in the Middle East and our absence will force people there to make peace with each other, instead of acting a proxies for our imperial ambitions.

[msmcghee]

5. The only time the Arabs of the mideast have been . .

. . at peace has been when the Ottomans or some other strong miltary power was sitting on them. The Iraq / Iran war is a flavor of what happens in the mideast when western authority is even momentarily relaxed.

Or, maybe you think that Arab cultures are just peace-loving shepherds and farmers who would naturally seek democratic forms of government and would quickly recognize human rights for minorities like women and homosexuals - if only Israel and the US were not standing with their feet on their necks - preventing their development.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Perhaps you should ask the ultra-Orthodox what they think of women & gays

and perhaps you should also ask Iraqi women and gays how they are doing now that they have been "liberated" by our Crusaders.

Or, maybe you think that Arab cultures are just peace-loving shepherds and farmers who would naturally seek democratic forms of government and would quickly recognize human rights for minorities like women and homosexuals

Where did you learn your history of Islam, Christian Bible school?

As to democratic forms of government, the Palestinians did elect Hamas in a democratic election, and Israel incarcerated most of its elected officials. Multi-cultural Lebanon had democratic elections, and had Hezbollah as a duly elected members of the government, and Israel decided that she knew best what kind of government Lebanon needed.

Kinda imperialist, don't ya think?

[msmcghee]

7. What some religious group thinks about . .

. . minorities is not what matters. What matters is how women and minorities are treated according to the laws of the nation they live in. Would you really like to compare Israel's laws and constitution and legal recognition of human rights - with Sharia? Do you really want to go there?

As far as my history - I got it from reading as much as I could and listening to both sides of the argument. I have no axe to grind with either side. I am an atheist and have been since 15 yo. I came to the conclusion that Arab culture is the problem here - it is the primary reason why there is never-ending war in this region and always has been throughout history.

Perhaps that culture is inevitable given the geographic and political realities of the region, the vast deserts, now, the oil, the trade cross-roads, etc.

But, until Arabs decide that strong-man patriarchies and the wars and cruelty that those engender are not the way to go - or until they are militarily defeated to the point where they have no alternative but to accept a more enlightened view of governance imposed on them from outside - then the status will continue to quo.

[IndianaGreen]

8. Iranians are not Arabs

I suggest you go to a different library!

[msmcghee]

9. OK - Radical Muslim culture.

How's that? You know what I meant.

Besides I was referring to culture anyway - not ethinicity. i.e. Those who have " . . decided that strong-man patriarchies and the wars and cruelty that those engender are the way to go."

Too bad you can't seem to address my actual points.

[Hemperor]

10. there are arabs that live in iran

i know thats besides the point, since its a small number... but there are many middle eastern ethnic groups and because he used the word arab rather than muslim in an informal debate shouldnt matter

nice red herring though

[IndianaGreen]

11. It shows ignorance and insensitivity typical of many Americans

the same ignorance that leads to attacks on Sikhs because they wear turbans (and therefore must be A-rabs), and the same ignorance that manifest itself in polls showing that a significant number of Americans still believe that Iraq was involved in 9-11.

[Hemperor]

13. American bashing is pathetic,

there are 250 million of us, but nice sweeping generalization... and besides, its still a red herring

why dont you argue on the merits? when one attacks the language or character of a person (like calling them ignorant), it is not only rude and in very poor form, but it shows that the attacker is not sure of him/herself on the merits of the issue

[IndianaGreen]

15. What do you think referring to Iran as an "Arab" country shows?

Or the broadbrush used on all Muslims.

As to the statement that many Americans believe that Iraq was involved in 9-11, that's supported by polling data.

[IntiRaymi]

17. Complete and utter Crap!

For the ONE MILLIONTH TIME:
Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism

[Marrak]

12. The war in Lebanon showed...

"the Americans will let Israel do whatever it wants. It was clear from the way the West reacted that it would let Israel take its best shot before it tried diplomacy. I saw an article in the Arab press—in London, I think—that said Lebanon was like a caught fish, that the United States nailed it to the wall and Israel gutted it. The most salient point it showed for Islamists is that Muslim blood is cheap. Israel said it went to war to get back its captured soldiers. The price was the gutting of Lebanon. Olmert said that Israel would fight until it got its soldiers back and until Hezbollah was disarmed. Neither happened. No matter how you spin it, this will be viewed as a victory for Hezbollah."

<http://harpers.org/sb-seven-michael-scheuer-1156277744.html>

[msmcghee]

14. If you think this is over, then you have not been . .

. . paying attention. Let's see what the next move is and who makes it.

[IndianaGreen]

16. What bloodlust!

Do you want the bombing to continue? Do you want war to be expanded to Syria?

Uncle Sam wants you!

[Marrak]

18. Gee..that makes me feel...

...pretty ignorant!
:grouphug: