Nicole Kidman's and other "stars" full page ad:

[AnnInLa]

Sorry if this was already posted today, but maybe the night-time group would like to go see the actual ad, and who signed it. Whereas it laments the civilian casualties in the Israel/Hizbulla conflict, it parrots the monkey king almost word for word:

http://www.radioblogger.com/#001795

[GrantDem]

1. "Rupert Murdoch"???

I wasn't aware that he was a "Hollywood star".

[Sven77]

2. idiots

fools every one of them

[catmother]

10. i don't think they are.

[AZBlue]

123. Hi there!

What's new? Long time no see! :hi:

[catmother]

156. as you can see i've been fighting with those who support

terrorism. i've been posting at another site. i just post over here once in awhile.

[Ms. Clio]

157. So you're still awake enough to make ugly broad brush accusations

without a scintilla of evidence.

[Lindacooks]

184. Yeah, that's what she does.

That's why she's on ignore for me - accuses others of being narrow-minded while displaying star-studded evidence of it herself.

[question everything]

29. Of course, if the ad praised Hezbollah you would praise them

won't you?

Thankfully, people in this country are free to express their opinion on any subject that they wish, are free to use their money to buy ad.

Now... try to run a similar ad in an Arab country. You'd be lucky if you will only get arrested. What about Israel? why, the newspapers are full of ads criticizing the Israeli government.

This never ceases to amaze me: how people who post on a web site with the word "Democratic" in it, ignore the fact that Israel is a democracy, that many stories from Israel criticizing it have been posted here, but none criticizing Hezbollah from an Arab country.

I am glad to see at least one such criticism, even if it comes from Hollywood.

[DocSavage]

44. yeah

but you support them to the hilt if they are doing an add for us or speaking out againt the President. Are they fools because they are putting the blame of the last 6 weeks were it belongs or because they are not blaming Israel?

[barb162]

77. Many are self made millionaires; they can't be that foolish

But why do you say they are fools? What is your objection to being against terrorists?

[LaPera]

161. Fellow Aussie, Mel Gibson....told me something different!

Oh my, who should I believe?

Hmmmmmmmmmm....Nicole, who's been drinkin more....that's the side I'll align with...

[Ken Burch]

205. Oh, for a second there I thought you were saying

Nicole's been drinking MORE THAN MEL. Shit, that'd be scary...

[barb162]

211. Nicole's not a big-time drinker like Mel

As a matter of fact I never heard of her drinking

[Ken Burch]

202. The implication of the ad is that it's ALL the fault of Hamas and

Hezbollah.

No acknowledgement that the policies of the Israeli government had anything whatsoever to do with the situation.

There should be negotiations and a prisoner exchange. Peace through "crushing the Arab dogs" isn't possible. Neither is a "Final settlement" dictated unilaterally by the Israeli government.

[Lindacooks]

3. Anything that Patricia Heaton signs I'm automatically against.

She's an anti-choice NUT.

Same with Stallone.

[catmother]

11. so you reject anything that they have to say? that's pretty

narrow minded.

[barb162]

53. If t Heaton is strongly pro-environmental, we should be

anti-environmental? I think not.

[WinkyDink]

125. Is she?

[Kerrytravelers]

144. She's a full blown fundy tool.

And most of the fundies are under the delusion that being pro-environment is anti_God because apparently, taking care of the Earth isn't trusting in God.

Not all, of course, there are some with some common sense... on this issue, anyway. I've never seen any evidence that nutty-patti is one of them.

[Lindacooks]

183. Thank you.

I've lived long enough to know that when somebody is a foaming-mouthed fundie on one subject the odds are very good, if not 100%, they're the same on other issues.

[barb162]

152. Hell if I know; I never heard of her

[Ken Burch]

206. She was Debra on EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND.

In six months she'll be working swing shift at Del Taco.

[barb162]

210. Never watched that show even once

[Guaranteed]

73. It's the same group of morons. Rupert MURDOCH?

Hello?

[Lindacooks]

87. Same to you.

[Lindacooks]

96. I also said Stallone.

And, for your information, I do not like the politics of Rupert Murdoch, Dennis Hopper, Don Johnson, Michael Chiklis, Pat Sajak, and Vivica A. Fox.

It's been my experience that when a person is rabidly anti-choice, they are a repuke.

[AZBlue]

127. That would be narrow-minded stereotyping. (EOM)

[Lindacooks]

182. Yeah - ALMOST as bad as name-calling

when you don't know somebody. As you just did to me. Now you're on ignore.

[Ken Burch]

207. Other than Martin Sheen, of course.

(Or Maya Angelou or the Berrigan brothers. Or Kucinich at one point.)

[whistle]

4. Looks like Hollywood is getting ready for another Witch Hunt like

...in the 1950s. No liberals allowed on sets....the liberal black list...relive the adventure:

http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2003/10/10/normaBarzmanRecallsCommunistWitchHunts

http://www.swans.com/library/art11/cmarow24.html

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol002.001/ling.html

[SPKrazy]

5. Only They Are Correct

even a monkey (like a stopped clock) is right sometimes (in the case of a clock stopped, twice a day, which is more than the * monkey is right)

[springhill]

27. Well,

Just goes to show you even Hollywood starts don't know all the facts. Hizbollah did not initiate this. This is a war that Israel wanted, and they got it. Period.

[Taoschick]

43. What?

Hezbollah crossed into Israel and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers. They've admitted it.

As much as I hate to admit someone from Hollywood could ever have a grasp on anything other than their next script, they're right about this. Hizbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations. They hide behind civilians and send their children out to die while they try and kill as many Israeli civilians as they can (hence the label, "terrorist").

Why do so many people here expect the Israelis to lay down and die for terrorists? I don't get it.

[earth mom]

67. You need to figure out who the REAL terrorists are. nt

[Taoschick]

72. Believe me,

After living 6 years in the ME, I know who the real terrorists are.

Perhaps you'd like to give it a shot?

[springhill]

76. Where in the mideast did you live?

[Taoschick]

85. Jeddah

Saudi Arabia.

I've also been to Iran, Iraq, Egypt and Israel. I had to enter Israel through Britain and tell them not to stamp my passport because an Israeli stamp would have prevented me from reentering the KSA.

[springhill]

71. Are you just ignoring the news reports.....

that say otherwise? First of all it did not begin with the kidnapping of the Iraeli soldiers.

Gaza, itself, the latest phase, began on June 24. It was when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother. We don't know their names. You don’t know the names of victims. They were taken to Israel, presumably, and nobody knows their fate. The next day, something happened, which we do know about, a lot. Militants in Gaza, probably Islamic Jihad, abducted an Israeli soldier across the border. That’s Corporal Gilad Shalit. And that's well known; first abduction is not. Then followed the escalation of Israeli attacks on Gaza, which I don’t have to repeat. It’s reported on adequately.

The next stage was Hezbollah's abduction of two Israeli soldiers, they say on the border. Their official reason for this is that they are aiming for prisoner release. There are a few, nobody knows how many. Officially, there are three Lebanese prisoners in Israel. There's allegedly a couple hundred people missing. Who knows where they are?

http://democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/14/146258

The Bush Administration, however, was closely involved in the planning of Israel’s retaliatory attacks. President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah’s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel’s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American preëmptive attack to destroy Iran’s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground.

Israeli military and intelligence experts I spoke to emphasized that the country’s immediate security issues were reason enough to confront Hezbollah, regardless of what the Bush Administration wanted. Shabtai Shavit, a national-security adviser to the Knesset who headed the Mossad, Israel’s foreign-intelligence service, from 1989 to 1996, told me, “We do what we think is best for us, and if it happens to meet America’s requirements, that’s just part of a relationship between two friends. Hezbollah is armed to the teeth and trained in the most advanced technology of guerrilla warfare. It was just a matter of time. We had to address it.”

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact

[Taoschick]

84. Not so fast...

The two captured men were brothers Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar, sons of Hamas activist Ali Muamar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5112846.stm

So, are you claiming Hezbollah was justified in crossing the Israeli border and kidnapping two soldiers because a couple of suspected Hamas terrorists were picked up?

[Lindacooks]

89. Don't know much about it, do you?

Read the Guardian article about Israel's many violations of Lebanon's air space and land.

[Taoschick]

91. I know

Quite a bit about it, actually. And my knowledge doesn't come from people with an ax to grind.

[barb162]

92. Since when does an armed terror group have the say in Lebanese

policy

[Lindacooks]

94. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You parrot right wing talking points (which are WRONG, by the way) and then you say you get your news from unbiased sources?

That's just rich.

[Taoschick]

102. Have

You ever lived outside the USA? Have you ever traveled outside the USA? In a Muslim country?

[Lindacooks]

88. Wrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1839281,00.html

"Since Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May 2000, there have been hundreds of violations of the "blue line" between the two countries. The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) reports that Israeli aircraft crossed the line "on an almost daily basis" between 2001 and 2003, and "persistently" until 2006. These incursions "caused great concern to the civilian population, particularly low-altitude flights that break the sound barrier over populated areas". On some occasions, Hizbullah tried to shoot them down with anti-aircraft guns.

In October 2000, the Israel Defence Forces shot at unarmed Palestinian demonstrators on the border, killing three and wounding 20. In response, Hizbullah crossed the line and kidnapped three Israeli soldiers. On several occasions, Hizbullah fired missiles and mortar rounds at IDF positions, and the IDF responded with heavy artillery and sometimes aerial bombardment. Incidents like this killed three Israelis and three Lebanese in 2003; one Israeli soldier and two Hizbullah fighters in 2005; and two Lebanese people and three Israeli soldiers in February 2006. Rockets were fired from Lebanon into Israel several times in 2004, 2005 and 2006, on some occasions by Hizbullah. But, the UN records, "none of the incidents resulted in a military escalation".

On May 26 this year, two officials of Islamic Jihad - Nidal and Mahmoud Majzoub - were killed by a car bomb in the Lebanese city of Sidon. This was widely assumed in Lebanon and Israel to be the work of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency. In June, a man named Mahmoud Rafeh confessed to the killings and admitted that he had been working for Mossad since 1994. Militants in southern Lebanon responded, on the day of the bombing, by launching eight rockets into Israel. One soldier was lightly wounded. There was a major bust-up on the border, during which one member of Hizbullah was killed and several wounded, and one Israeli soldier wounded. But while the border region "remained tense and volatile", Unifil says it was "generally quiet" until July 12."



Quit parroting the talking points.

[Taoschick]

90. Are you

Confusing Hizbollah and Hamas?

And in the future, don't accuse ME of parroting talking points. I have up close and person experience in the area and I'm not relying on propaganda as a news source.

[Lindacooks]

93. No, I'm not confusing the two.

And in the future, don't accuse ME of spreading propaganda. If you think that the Guardian is 'propaganda', that tells me all I need to know about you. 'Up close and person experience in the area' doesn't mean a damn thing - all it means is that you're more likely to be biased.

[Taoschick]

100. So

If I've actually lived in the ME, if I've actually traveled throughout the ME, including Israel that means I'm biased?

I suppose you could say I am. After all, I have first hand knowledge of the area. I'm not just repeating what some newspaper reporter decides should be printed.

I do know that Hamas and Hezbollah are radical Islamic terrorist organizations. They would kill your family if it gained them an advantage. I know they want to institute fundamentalist Islamic states in Israel and Lebanon. Under their rule, gays would be executed, women not allowed to work or receive and education and if you strayed from their religious precepts, you would be jailed at the very least. Now I'm not sure why anyone on this discussion forum would actually support them knowing this. It's bizarre to say the least and it really makes me wonder about some people.

Can anyone explain this massive disconnect?

[me b zola]

141. OBL has first hand knowledge of Afghanastan

Does that mean that his political views are more correct than mine?

[SPKrazy]

192. It Could Be

that there is a bias here against Israel

JMO

[EnfantTerrible]

196. Not so...

You're misinformed. Israel was in Lebanon when the soldiers were captured, not "kidnapped". Several of the earliest reports made this clear, but suddenly the reports were changed when it became the convenient excuse for war. Here's one such example http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5945905,00.html

You say they have admitted it? Do you have a link to that admission?

[bdamomma]

47. with a lot of help from the bush regime.

all those bombs that were made in the USA to destroy another Middle East country.

[AnnInLa]

6. In retrospect, maybe Tom has more sense than I gave

him credit for...didn't I read on here that he is a lib, and gives to lib causes?

Danny DeVito?????????

[ellenfl]

39. devito surprised me too after seeing him on tds. eom

[flyarm]

7. well i shut it down after reading Ruppert Murdoch...i don't want to

read that crap if Ruppert is part of it!

fly

[catmother]

12. again someone sees one name they don't like and dismiss

all the others.

[Pastiche423]

21. One name?

Hell, I dismiss them all.

[catmother]

25. well that's your choice. is there anyone you do like?

[Pastiche423]

35. Yes

[question everything]

26. And they won't be able to sleep tonight

Do you really think that any of them care what you think of them?

[Pastiche423]

33. Did I say that they would?

[flyarm]

99. you bet ..i know all about that nneo nazi murdoch..that speaks

volumns to me..more than volumns!!

he is the worlds nazi!
he is new world order king pin..i need to know nothing else!

fly

[barb162]

57. But why is it crap? What is it you disagree with?

[gatorboy]

8. Michael Douglas?

"China Syndrome" Michael Douglas???

The times, they are a'changin'...

[Zomby Woof]

81. He's Jewish

And that is going to make the list difficult to break down along the expected ideological fault lines. Not everything is "right" vs. "left", especially the mutual death grip that is the middle east.

I first saw the ad when it ran in the Tuesday L.A. Times.

[cigsandcoffee]

86. Is he Israeli?

There's a difference between Jews and Israel, I'm told.

[Zomby Woof]

185. Israel is the universal Jewish homeland

I am not judging Douglas for his views, just pointing out a reality of the list. Many Jews understandably feel a loyalty towards Israel, and to address the poster below, it matters not whom they are married to.

[catmother]

106. so he's jewish. he's also got a christian wife and children.

[Zomby Woof]

186. Which is irrelevant

I am pointing out why he is likely on that list, because his liberalism, and the conservatism of many others on the list, strike some as contradictory or surprising, when in fact ideology is trumped when dealing with the emotionalism and complexities of the recent conflict. Fact is, plain as day, that the list is primarily (NOT ENTIRELY) made up of Jewish liberals (like Douglas), and non-Jewish dittohead conservatives (like Heaton and Sajak).

Personally, I am a pacifist who mourns the deaths on both sides of the conflict EQUALLY. My problem with the ad is that it uses the term "terrorist" as code for "Muslim" or "Arab", and that it thinks I give a shit what coked-up overpaid celebrities think.

[WCGreen]

9. The ad doesn't say anything about supporting the war....

It just says they want to stop terrorism...

I know Gary Sinise has done a lot for orphans in Iraq and to help rebuild the education system....

But then again, it implies that those who aren't with them are supporting terrorists...

So I guess it is what everyone thinks it is...

[barb162]

59. I know Sinise is pug and so are others on the signed list

But the three sentences are actually quite intelligent and succinct.

[Kerrytravelers]

13. Yes. I'm against terrorists, too.

Plenty of liberals...
Michael Douglas
Nicole Kidman
Joshua Malina
Larry Gelbart
Danny De Vito
Doug Liman
Michael Chiklis


and the repugnants...
gary sinise
patricia heaton
rupert murdock - Hollywood celeberity?
james woods
bruce willis
kristin chenowith
larry elder - Hollywood celeberity?
dennis hopper
slyvester stallone


So... what do they suggest we do? Invade countries that don't pose a threat... like, I don't know... perhaps Iraq? :shrug: Or, perhaps they're suggesting that we need to be the example of democracy, like we were pre-2000.

Want to stop terrorism? Vote Democratic!

[Nabia2004]

20. Looks like the basic sheeple signing - nt

[Cha]

28. Thanks for breakin' that

down for us. The wording is a little too weird for me..unless they mean get bush the hell outta here and Vote Democratic in 2006! :patriot: :patriot:

patricia heaton's boy bush is the world's numero uno terrorist.

[Kerrytravelers]

31. If they're really against terrorism, they may want to clean house here at

home first. We have a homegrown group right at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.



(I can't stand patricia heaton. The idiot went on a hunger strike to protest Terri Schievo, someone who had a heart attack because of her eating disorder. Way to go, patti! :eyes: )

[Cha]

49. Yeah, if they were really the brave

little signers they would address it to the terrorist who opened up the terrorist can o' whupass in Iraq and the Middle East on March 20, 2003 and who wouldn't call for a cease fire from those who were killing civilians in Lebanon!

I googled that date and wikipedia has "The Invasion of Iraq"..glad to see a spade called a spade.

[Tinksrival]

32. I don't get it ????

Who isn't against terrorism except for terrorist?? :shrug:
Why did they feel the need to do this??
How about being for something instead of against, like say um, PEACE! or is that to liberal?
Their statement doesn't really say a whole lot except DUH!

[Ms. Clio]

46. I never even heard of most of those people

good lord who cares what they think about anything?

[TomClash]

14. Yes I waited with baited breath to see this

"We need to support democratic societies and stop terrorism at all costs" - Does that include Venezuela? Or the children killed by Israelis in Lebanon? Or does that only apply to governments that back US objectives?

[OwnedByFerrets]

34. Does "all costs" also mean......

""We need to support democratic societies and stop terrorism at all costs"

giving up our liberties. No thank you. I am not ready to let bushco rule the world just because of cowardly sheeple.

[TomClash]

166. Well said nt

[Hamlette]

15. WILLIAM HURT???????????????

bummer, I used to have a huge crush on him.

[barb162]

61. Why is that a bummer

He was cute in his day, wasn't he?

[lukasahero]

170. Jumped out at me too.

Besides also having a huge crush on him at one time, I assumed, given his upbringing that he would lean liberal. Guess not. :(

[catmother]

174. i'm liberal. just because someone is anti-terrorist you assume

their not liberal?

[Phx_Dem]

176. Strange isn't it?

[Ken Burch]

208. NOBODY HERE IS PRO-TERRORIST. Stop smearing already.

It isn't "pro-terrorist" to believe that the fault for the Second Lebanon War lies equally with Hezbollah AND Israel.

[Clark2008]

16. Other than Dennis Hopper and James Woods, I didn't see

anyone I give a flying fig about.

[JI7]

101. didn't James Woods make up some story about "suspicious arabs"

in a plane ride he was on ? this was probably right after 9/11. whatever came of that ?

[catmother]

107. why would you think he would make up the story?

[Ms. Clio]

110. for the same reason you would call the FBI on somebody

for posting on a messageboard.

[catmother]

114. he did call the FBI. this is not a game. our country is in grave

danger. did you forget 9/11? i'm suspicious of anyone who supports a terrorist organization.

[Ms. Clio]

122. He called the FBI with a bullshit story that reeked of bigotry

I'm beginning to think there are people like him out there doing crazy shit like every day. And I guess that means you are suspicious of the entire EU, since they don't regard Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

[catmother]

135. oh give me a break. it's late and i'm tired and i'm going to bed.

"talk among yourselves".

and FYI i like james woods. he's a great actor. and just maybe the story was true.

[Ms. Clio]

139. and give me one -- do you ever base your opinions on facts of any kind?

[Zomby Woof]

188. But he's a miserable human being

He recently dumped a 20-year old "girlfriend", whom he had known since she was 5. He is old enough to be her grandfather, and the reason he dumped her was because she was showing off magazine pictures of herself at his brother's funeral. Safe to say those two narcissists deserved each other.

I don't care about anyone's "skills" on that list. What kind of person are they? By all accounts, Woods is delusional scum, and he and the others on that list can kiss my ass.

[EnfantTerrible]

197. Round up

all the Bush voters then.

[Raster]

164. Because he's an idiot, and a HUGE bush* supporter.

[Ms. Clio]

108. it was nothing but hysterical bigoted crap, so nothing came of it

[Clark2008]

120. I don't know.

I don't keep up with celebrity lifestyles. It's rather banal and boring.

My life is much more exciting than their's - even without sleeping with half the neighborhood! :7

[flyarm]

104. james woods is huge * ass suck! n/t

[ShortnFiery]

203. Don't forget the Honorable ....

Dennis Hopper

:rofl:

[catmother]

17. they're calling for an end to terrorism. what's wrong with that?

[Clark2008]

19. But they specifically name two organizations that aren't

seen as "terrorist" organizations by the millions of Arabs they provide aid to.

They're looking through Bush-colored glasses without a thought to what the phrase, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" actually means.

It's short-sighted and stupid. They should have just said "terrorists" and left it at that. As it is, they've alienated the millions helped by Hezbollah and Hamas's more popular social wings.

[catmother]

23. give me a break! they are terrorists. yes they have social

programs and they help the poor and build schools (where they teach their hate). it's just to win the people over and then they hide among civilians just like hizbollah did.

who the hell supports hizbollah and hamas in this country and goes to the movies?

anyone in this country who supports them should be deported.

[Clark2008]

38. Where would you deport me to?

I'm FROM here, lady.

I absolutely support their social arm because the USA certainly doesn't support helping these people in the least! That's why they have such support! It's not because "they hate our freedoms."

Oh - and I go to the movies. (Psst... and my husband is JEWISH and if you don't think Israeli schools teach hate, too, then I need you to speak to a few people). :eyes:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

48. and maybe you would be happier somewhere else

this is not a forum for that kind of trash-talking of DUers.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark2008]

64. Leave to a Who fan to find the goods!!

:thumbsup:

I'm a Pete girl, myself.

SIGH... :)

[Ms. Clio]

65. I see dead people

LOL

:D

[flyarm]

112. hmmm and i am not surprised ..why??..

thats a real good "gotcha!!"

thanks ..fly

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

149. oh i wouldn't dare look..it would make me puke..

i will trust others to look at those nasty sites..i already had my shower..i don't need another!!

fly

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

158. oh no i am not a sheeple...see

my co-workers died on 9/11 and my neighbors died in way too many numbers...i know what death is up front and uncomfortable..and i also know how prescious life is..and how fragile it is..

i don't goose step like you seem to..or buy into total bullshit and lies...

i see it like it is..

you just keep your blinders on..and cover yourself with fear..

you are just what the neo cons need for their new world nazi order!

fly

[catmother]

175. oh, so now i'm a nazi. i've aligned myself with a jewish website

and you call me a nazi.

[flyarm]

179. SEEMS YOU CALLED THOSE OF US AT DU ..IDIOTS..SO IF THE SHOE FITS..??

[Ms. Clio]

159. no, they are assholes and disrupters who have been banned from DU

really great company you're keeping there.

[Scurrilous]

163. Yep..

...links to terrorist websites, repostings of screeds from Meir Kahane, pics of Baruch Goldstein with the caption 'may his memory be a blessing.'

Great stuff! :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catmother]

55. yes you did.

I absolutely support their social arm because the USA certainly doesn't support helping these people in the least! That's why they have such support! It's not because "they hate our freedoms."

my dear, those are your words.

[Clark2008]

60. Um... do you not understand the difference between the

words, "social" and "terrorist?"

Or have you just not done any research on the origins of both Hamas and Hezbollah?

[catmother]

68. they're a terrorist organization who help the poor. they're still

primarily a terrorist organization.

and as i said before there is a reason for their social programs -- to bring more people over to their side.

[Clark2008]

75. I'd rather talk to the Who fan and the psychic above.

They seem to know from where you come.

[catmother]

83. i come from phoenix and new york.

[Clark2008]

117. OK... I'll chat... I'm in the mood.

Why do you only see Israel's side?

Do you NOT see, at all, how Israel's encroaching on land - how their treatment of Palestinians, specifically, and Arabs, in general, can cause the creation of what you consider "terrorist" organizations?

My husband renounced his Jewish faith - not his Semitic heritage - after visiting Israel and seeing how they also indoctrinate their youth, as you claim the Arabs do.

Do you not see that there is hatred on both sides that has to be stopped?

And, if you don't, why?

[catmother]

128. israel has been attacked time after time. i'm almost 65. for

as long as i can remember there are those who hate the jews and israel. israel just wants to live in peace and no one will let them.

i'm not jewish, but i've had many jewish friends and even dated 2 israeli guys. one had fought in the '67 war. i was moved by how much he loved his country.

i don't believe that terrorism is the answer to anything. israel gave up occupied territories last year -- dragged their own people kicking and screaming from houses they lived in all their lives so that palestinians could have that land back. but no, rockets still got fired. hizbollah grabs israeli soldiers.

if for some reason, canada let a terrorist organization operate in their country and rockets started to hit montana or maine, how long do you think it would take before the US retaliated. i doubt if we would have been as patient as the israelis.

it's getting late now and i'm tired. so i'm just going to end it now.

i wish you a goodnight.

[Clark2008]

131. What I hope you do is investigate how it feels to be

ousted from your own home.

That's what the Palestinians went through.

Now.. that said. I don't support terrorism, but I understand why it happened.

People are too cruel to others.

[catmother]

133. yes. they are. if we all practised the golden rule we wouldn't

have any wars.

[Ms. Clio]

136. The more apt comparison would be if the U.S. invaded Canada

and then a native resistance group began to fire rockets at Maine or Montana. Or don't you know that Hezbollah was born during Israel's first invasion of Lebanon?

[PA Democrat]

171. You neglect to tell the ENTIRE story about settlements.

While Israel did indeed give up ****SOME**** occupied territories last year in the Gaza strip, you have conveniently neglected to address is the fact that Israel continues to build more settlements in the West Bank. It's kind of like returning money you've stolen from someone's left pocket while you are pickpocketing the right pocket.

And for the record, I don't support terrorism, but I also despise dishonesty about what is occurring WRT Palestinian lands.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1269880,00.html

Israel expands West Bank settlements

Aerial photos reveal extent of land grab, say peace groups

Months after Ariel Sharon announced his dramatic plan to pull Jewish settlers out of Gaza, portraying it as a sacrifice for peace, the government is grabbing more land for West Bank settlements.
Israeli peace groups and Palestinian officials say thousands of homes are under construction in the main settlements, in addition to an expansion of Jewish outposts that are illegal under Israeli law. Mr Sharon has promised the US he will dismantle the outposts, which are usually clusters of containers or trailer homes serviced by government-built roads, but has failed to do so.

and this story from June of this year of new settlements under construction:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/272651_mideast03.html

Israel builds West Bank settlement
Action breaks vow to U.S. about not building in area

MASKIOT, West Bank -- Israel has begun laying the foundations for a new Jewish settlement deep in the West Bank -- breaking a promise to Washington while strengthening its hold on a stretch of desert it wants to keep as it draws its final borders.


The construction of Maskiot comes at a time when Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert seeks U.S. backing for eventually annexing parts of the West Bank as part of a plan to set Israel's eastern border with or without Palestinian consent

[barb162]

154. Israel is giving up some West Bank settlements soon

Look what happened when they ceded Gaza... rockets every damned day from Gaza being shot into Israel.

Yeas this violence has to stop. A two-state solution is the only solution.

[barb162]

153. I come from my mother

Bwahahahahhaha; need some levity around this place!!! Don't we?

[Phx_Dem]

178. Tammany Hall

had lots of "social programs" too. Eventually they were removed from power by FDR no less. As a liberal am never going to support machine politics regardless who is doing it.

[charlie]

56. Jr McCarthy League, representin'!

Yer a hoot.

[earth mom]

80. Are you kidding when you said this:

catmother: "on edit: if i had your name i would report you to the FBI."

Because that is not cool. Not cool at all! :grr:

Unfuckingbelievable!!!

[catmother]

97. no i wasn't kidding. and i don't care if i'm not "cool". this

country is in danger and a person who admits that they support hizbollah and hamas might be dangerous.

[Ms. Clio]

105. no, it's people who don't have the slightest grasp of freedom of speech

who are dangerous.

And I will repeat, the EU does not consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization. I know you can't deal with that fact.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProfessorGAC]

169. Please Elucidate The Dangers

And then explain how each of those dangers is any worse than during WWII, or the Cold War.

I'll be waiting with great anticipation for your thesis in this matter.

The Professor

[TahitiNut]

195. (crickets)

Some people have gone bat-fucking-crazy! :eyes: I'm just a nut - I can tell.

[Ariana Celeste]

82. Report to the FBI?!

You have got to be fucking kidding me! :rofl:

You need to do some research!

[catmother]

98. no, you have to wake up to what's going on in this country.

[Ms. Clio]

103. so you are standing by your threat to call the FBI on another DUer

for exercising her First Amendment rights.

Yes, that's the kind of scary nonsense that is going on in this country.

[flyarm]

115. you have that 100% right Ms. Clio! ..that is scarey !! that is

how this country will be destroyed..not from outside terrorists..but internal ones like that one!

fly

[Ms. Clio]

132. amazing, isn't it? Suddenly posting on DU is "supporting the enemy"

Sounds just like something the FReaks would say, doesn't it?

[flyarm]

138. YEP SURE DOES!! N/T

[catmother]

118. first amendment right??? give me a break. she admitted to

supporting terrorist organizations. i'm not sure about the law, but that could be "treason". supporting the enemy.

[Ms. Clio]

121. She did no such thing -- that is a stunning misrepresentation

of her posts. And since you're not sure about the law, let me educate you: posting FACTS on a message board is not "supporting the enemy" except in the minds of morans.

[flyarm]

113. no you need to wake up to whats going on in this country..like our

white house being spied on by Israel!

go look it up..even one just recently!

if you hate this country and our laws and our freedoms so much..why are you here?? why are you here on du and in the usa??
fly

[catmother]

116. i hate this country??? what a joke. i'm not the one supporting

terrorists. i joined DU a year ago because i'm a democrat. but from what i've seen on these boards, some of the people here do not represent the democratic party. if they do, we are in big trouble.

[flyarm]

145. EXPLAIN TERRORIST TO ME PLEASE??

really explain it to me....you see, millions of people all over the world see this administration of ours, as the worst terrorists in the world!

in fact world wide polls have shown that, too often ..way too often!

so go ahead, explain to me..what would you consider .. another country in a war using our bombs with USA on them killing innocent children..explain to me how that makes the rest of the world see us!!


and considering we started a war based on lies..nothing but lies..and have occupied a soveriegn nation and killed approx 250,000 of its citizens..

3400+ this past month, we are responsible for ..and seeing that before little lord pissy pants started his illegal war, over 50% of the iraqi citizens were under the age of 15..that would make us???.. child killers wouldn't it..and please spare me, and do not attempt to say iraq had any thing to do with attacking this country or supporting osama..that would be utter bullshit..

i know..i was a crew member of one of the airlines involved in 9/11...based in NY...so save that bullshit for someone who is stupid or a sheeple..

so do explain to me what is a terrorist??

one group of humans that kills and murders innocent human beings based on lies??

that would be us..

fly

take!

[flyarm]

148. INTERVIEW WITH JIMMY CARTER "The US and Israel Stand Alone"

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,431793,00.html


SPIEGEL Interview with Jimmy Carter: "The US and Israel Stand Alone"

snip:

Carter: No, as a matter of fact, the concerns I exposed have gotten even worse now with the United States supporting and encouraging Israel in its unjustified attack on Lebanon.

SPIEGEL: But wasn't Israel the first to get attacked?

Carter: I don't think that Israel has any legal or moral justification for their massive bombing of the entire nation of Lebanon. What happened is that Israel is holding almost 10,000 prisoners, so when the militants in Lebanon or in Gaza take one or two soldiers, Israel looks upon this as a justification for an attack on the civilian population of Lebanon and Gaza. I do not think that's justified, no.

SPIEGEL: Do you think the United States is still an important factor in securing a peaceful solution to the Middle East crisis?

Carter: Yes, as a matter of fact as you know ever since Israel has been a nation the United States has provided the leadership. Every president down to the ages has done this in a fairly balanced way, including George Bush senior, Gerald Ford, and others including myself and Bill Clinton. This administration has not attempted at all in the last six years to negotiate or attempt to negotiate a settlement between Israel and any of its neighbors or the Palestinians.

[flyarm]

187. WHERE DO YOU SEE ME ANYWHERE SUPPORTING TERRORISTS??

MY CO-WORKERS WERE KILLED BY TERRORISTS..or that's what i have been told...by the government we have that is nothing but filthy liars.. any part of that you are not comprehending..its just which terrorists killed my co-workers i am concerned with..ones outside my own government or within...


and the more i see of your writings ..i am beginning to wonder...about alot of things i never thought of before!



fly

[SPKrazy]

193. I Don't Think The Real Wesley Clark

supports Hezbollah and Hamas

[Ms. Clio]

50. what a load of cat shit

BTW, Hezbollah is not considered a terrorist organization by the EU.

[flyarm]

111. hmmm deported??

and calling us idiots on another forum??

and you are here why??????????

yeah thought so..

got the number now!! loud and clear
fly

[Kerrytravelers]

124. Someone who is a member here is going to other forums and

calling us idiots?

If we're such idiots, and apparently terrorists sympathizers, the World Wide Web is mighty big. This isn't the only message board. If we're that bad... just saying... :shrug:

[flyarm]

134. check post #58 and click on the links...

yes we are called idiots!!


meow..

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

its a gotcha..

for sure!!

FLY

[Kerrytravelers]

140. Well, somebody's going on my ignore list...

:eyes:

[catmother]

142. if the shoe fits, wear it.

[flyarm]

146. seems your shoe is deep in it..on another board calling us idiots!!

keep your shoes away from my shoes..the feet can be smelled from here@!

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

fly

[barb162]

62. Those two groups have strong militant wings and everyone

knows it. The militant wings are responsible for many, many deaths of innocent people. To try to separate the two wings doesn't work.

[Clark2008]

69. It works over there, though.

That was the point of my post.

Most people there support them because of their social wings, not their terrorist wings.

They don't have human services and such - those ARE their social services. I was just making the point that a bit more tact would have made that ad less reproachable.

[barb162]

95. The thing I am seeing though in some of these posts is

akin to saying if the KKK were building a hospital it's okay for them to kill innocent black or hispanics on the side. Hamas and Hezbollah are bad news. BTW, nice post; thanks for the explanation but these social wings of terror groups don't justify what their armed wings are doing, which is killing people.

[Phx_Dem]

180. excellent point Barb.

I just will never know why this is so difficult for some people to understand. Funny thing is (in a sad, pathetic way) that Hizbullah and Hamas are now the "template" on how to develop a "terrorist" movement.

[barb162]

78. Seems pretty damned smart to me!

[flyarm]

150. Bush -- "Take Your Time" (Ralph Nader)

Bush -- "Take Your Time" (Ralph Nader)
By Ralph Nader

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0817-21.htm

<snip>

Open letter to President George W. Bush:

The widespread destruction of a defenseless Lebanon-its civilians, its life-sustaining public services, its environment-is a grim and indelible testament to your consummate cruelty and ignorance. Nearly two weeks ago when your tardy Secretary of State met with the Israeli Prime Minister, the message she carried was summarized in a large headline across page one of an Israeli newspaper, "TAKE YOUR TIME."

Yes, take your time, says George W. Bush, pulverizing fleeing refugees in cars full of families, bombing apartment buildings, hospitals and the poor huddled in large south Beirut slums.

Take your time, says George W. Bush, in destroying bridges, roads, gasoline stations, airports, seaports, wheat silos, vehicles with medical supplies, clearly marked ambulances taking the wounded to clinics, even a milk factory .

Take your time, says George W. Bush, while shelters are demolished with bodies of little children together with their mothers and fathers buried in the rubble...

[AnnInLa]

18. "Stop terrorism at all costs"

THAT is code for give up your freedoms that terrorists hate us for anyway. Go ahead, give 'em all up so "Who's Your Daddy" bush and the repukes can protect you. And, after you've given up those freedoms, in the name of "Stop terrorism at all cost," then the terrorists have won anyway. Shame on these people, using civilians to promote the changing of America beyond all recognition, therefore supporting terrorism.

[Balderdash]

22. Pat Sajak

is another loonie toon rightwing nut.

[barb162]

70. If terrorism is not stopped , you will have no freedom

If Nasrallah or bin Laden ran the world, would you be in a burqa? Do you think you would have a vote as a woman? There is no reason to support these or any other terrorists.

[flyarm]

126. wrong the terrorists have won..its obvious because

some people are so easily giving up our freedoms because they are scared shitless!

and cowards..

the only terrorists i have fear of are running this administration in this country!..and those who follow like sheep and choose to be ingorant of PNAC and these monsters plan of a new world order!


What if what they really want is for us to herd children into stadiums like we're doing? And put soldiers on the street and - and have Americans looking over their shoulders? Bend the law, shred the Constitution just a little bit? Because if we torture him, General, we do that, and everything that we have bled and fought and died for is over, and they've won. They've already won!.
-- Denzel Washington. The Siege (1998).

fly

[CJCRANE]

167. How can

Nasrallah or bin Laden run the world?

That is nonsense. And if you think that B*sh/Blair are really fighting against terrorism, why did B*sh remove US troops from Saudi Arabia after 9/11 just as bin Laden demanded?

And if they are really fighting islamic fundamentalism and promoting democracy then why did B*sh recently sell a billion dollars of tanks to Saudi Arabia and Blair just sold them $20 billion of Eurofighter jets?

[AnnInLa]

173. I do NOT support terrorists

There is a right way and a wrong way to fight terrorism, and this administration is doing everything in such a way as to INCREASE terrorism.

I am amazed that some DUers have adapted the puke talking points, and have threatened to turn in a Duer to Homeland Security. Is no one else bothered by this?

[Ken Burch]

209. And if Bush gets to do everything he wants to "stop terrorism"

We won't have freedom either. None of the rights Bush wants to take away will ever be restored if he gets to take them away.

And we won't be a humane or civilized nation anymore if Bush gets to have all the additional wars he wants.

[MisterHowdy]

24. I don't care what celebrities think.

They're flakes, all of them.
Their personal image comes first.

[OwnedByFerrets]

36. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion,

but that is a mighty huge group that you have excluded. There are many, many "celebrities" that are able to do much more (and are doing it) than we are, just because of their celebrity. I want them to speak out.
Its the ones that dont use their brains, or are more driven by monetary reasoning that I have no use for.

[Kerrytravelers]

30. So, what do they want us to do?

It's about as productive as slapping a made in China "Support the Troops" yellow ribbon magnet on your car. It's a nice sentiment, but, like Bill Mahr said, "how big of you. What a stretch." There is nothing wrong with the ribbons, but really, what does supporting the troops mean? Not preparing them for war and giving them the equipment they need? Cutting their benefits? Lying to them?

I read this statement and thought... ok? The blog that this linked to suggested that these people weren't anti-war. I guess he didn't see Danny De Vito on The Daily Show last week? He clearly is no fan of bushco.

[ComerPerro]

37. The radical right won't give these people any credit anyway

[girl gone mad]

40. A bunch of has-beens and never-weres.

Oh, and Rupert Murdoch.

:shrug:

[tinfoilinfor2005]

42. I also want to see the end of all Sylvester Stallone movies at any cost.

Oh, that wasn't part of the petition?

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

45. It's the "At all costs" part ...

that I have a problem with...

[Zorra]

129. Yeah, kind of like the PNAC "Statement of Principles". Welcome to

DU!
:hi:

[barb162]

52. What is your objection? Which sentence(s) and why?

I see nothing wrong with any three of the sentences. Who cares what Bush says anyway? If he says the sky is blue and it is blue I'm not going to deny it because he said so.

[earth mom]

66. WTF-Kelly Preston???!!!

:wtf:

So does that mean John Travolta too?! I hope not!!! Wow are there more people that didn't sign because they are afraid of what the public will think? Makes me wonder about Oprah and so many other people I thought would speak out by now or DO something by now and haven't! Where's their courage?! Or have they bought into the b.s. terra terra terra too?! :banghead:

I will never see another movie by anyone on that list. PERIOD. Boycott is the ONLY answer. :grr:

[Ken Burch]

204. If Kelly and John signed this, it's only because the aliens told them to.

nt.

[T Town Jake]

79. They should be applauded for taking this public stand against...

...the terrorist killers of Hezbollah.

[dorkulon]

130. Yeah, lol, a brave stance against...

...all of the Hezbollah-supporting Americans out there. Reminds me of that old joke about fighting the pro-AIDS lobby.

[nolabels]

137. Dudes that fly freely with large planes packed with the latest guided.....

munitions kind of got me thinking we are talking about cat and mouse.

The white europeans that invaded the middle east this last century in this place called Palestine/Israel are up to the same old neo-colonial games they have been practicing for at least two other millenniums before. Nothing has changed except the tools they try to do it with.

[Ken Burch]

212. It would be worth applauding if they were equally standing against

the terrorist killers of the IDF.

Neither side in this deserves to be considered innocent victims.

Israel should just negotiate and do a friggin' prisoner exchange already. It's not going to be possible to win by crushing Hezbollah and Hamas. Nobody STAYS crushed in the Middle East.

[treestar]

109. I don't give a shit what Hollywood celebrities think

Vapid assholes are only shallowly revamping their "image." Like the Bushco, using current events to create drama starring themselves.

[GreenTea]

165. A who's who of ignorance....

Will the right-wing now embrace the Hollywood whom they've profess to despise...Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. will they NOW accept their kind of Hollywood, their kind of hypocrisy...Bush/Cheney has got them doing as wanted.

[Emit]

143. They should 'support democratic societies at home...' n/t

[upi402]

151. Stars like Bruce Willis brought this crap on, if ya ask me

by supporting these fascists and wallowing in their delusional greed they have created Frankenstein. And Franky goes to Hollywood too.

[LaPera]

160. Well, if Vodka Don Johnson says it....

I wouldn't worry Nicole...

I'm sure non working actors will always support your superstar paranoia!

[CJCRANE]

162. "Support democracy"

by exposing election fraud in Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004.

[buddhamama]

168. "and stop terrorism at all costs."

This "at all costs" mindset is unacceptable to me for numerous reasons...
it is entirely unrealistic.

'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.'

[CollegeDUer]

172. The Sheens didn't sign it. Fuck those actors

They're not speaking up for democratic societies in Palestine and Lebanon being destroyed, now are they? I don't know if they asked Martin and Charlie, but I'm sure they two of them would tell them to get the hell out if asked.

[martymar64]

213. Charlie Sheen seems to know what's up

I heard the interview he gave with Alex Jones regarding 9/11. Of course as soon as he spoke up, everyone tried to paint him as crazy.

FWIW, terrorism is a strategy, not a philosophy. It is the weapon of the powerless. We used it against the British, the Algerians used it against the French. Partisans in Europe used it against the Nazis, the Israelis used it against the British.
Of course these people that signed this ad would rather that all the Arab people in the ME simply bow down and meekly accept their slavery by the Israeli war machine. Human nature dictates different.

[catmother]

177. i got on this thread last night when there were just a few posts. i

made some comments that i thought some of the posters were narrow-minded because they saw a name of one celebrity they didn't like and discarded everything else in the ad. i posted the link on another website and called them idiots.

now look where it's gone. it all comes down to anti-semitism. sometimes its blatant, other times it's vague, but it's out there, rearing it's ugly head.

you all obviously know where i've been posting and where some of your former and present DUers are. we keep getting new members and when we've all left DU, who are you going to fight with?

guess you're gonna have to fight with each other.

so with that said, i will no longer make any comments on this thread. i've said what i wanted to. case closed.

[Lilith Velkor]

181. don't let the door hit ya where YHVH split ya

:hi:

[AnnInLa]

191. thank god you've said all you're going to

what a relief.

Where do you get off threatening DUers with the FBI, and telling people they support terrorism just for voicing their opinions? In case you didn't notice, this is a democracy, and people can express their opinions....if you call the FBI every time you don't like someone's opinion, or consider anyone who doesn't agree with you a terrorist-supporter, then indeed, you do not believe in Democracy. Ergo, you must be a terrorist-supporter.

Good riddance.

[EnfantTerrible]

198. Typical

There can be no criticism of Israeli policy with out "anti semitism" being trotted out to quash discussion. Israel wants to be recognized as an autonomous body therefore it is open to criticism of it's policies IMO. This has nothing to do with religion. I suppose all of the Jews who are opposed to Israel's aggressive rogue behavior are anti semites as well?

[breakaleg]

189. People come here to debate the issues.

The Israel / Palestine thing is clearly a hot topic. I find the accusation that anyone on this board supports terrorism completely baseless. Just as there is a difference between support for Jews. Israeli citizens and Israeli politics. There is also a difference between support for Palestinian people, Lebanese people and terrorism.

What we seem to lack here is an open mind. It seems the pro-Israel crowd believe in Israel at all costs. And while the other side feels that there are some "costs" that aren't acceptable, they get attacked. There is a limit to what any country or people can do to "defend" themselves. And as has been shown here, Israel has crossed that line again and again.

And we should be allowed to say that without being accused of being anti-Semitic or supporting terrorism.

[cali]

190. Sorry,

there are extremes on both sides. There are people who vehemently defend Israel reflexively and people who vehememtly condemn Israel reflexively. If you can't see that, your bias is clouding your view.

[breakaleg]

194. I don't understand the point of your post.

Yes, there are people who vehemently defend both sides. What bias do you perceive I have?

I was trying to suggest that we should be able to say what we want without getting personally attacked. It minimizes any discussion to be called names or insulted. And certainly any argument that is made, if it's prefaced by something like "you don't know enough about this topic" or an insult, then it does nothing to convince the other person to change their view.

In fact, it has the opposite effect - people are attacked and go on to defend their point of view more vehemently.

[pelsar]

199. yet most of the time...

i've noticed that very few posters here actually know the topics...some actually ask those who know more for info...and they usually get very good responses, most however stick with their original post and it can take upto several days of proofs for them to not so much admit that they didnt know, but they just stop posting.

My favorite concerns Gaza. Soon after Israel left, the southern border was controlled completly by Egypt, the Palestenain and the EU observers. The border control had a road from egypt that in the past was used to bring in materials.

I took over 5 days for a poster to finally admit that maybe the road could be used to bring in humanitarian goods!....

There are different levels of knowledge......some do know more than others....thats how it is in everyday life and on this topic as well.

[Ken Burch]

200. "Millie Perkins"?

Is that the actress who played Anne Frank in the movie? I didn't know she was still around.
Well, I think most of the signers of the ad were fools, but I'd respect her.

I think they got her signature in order to make it harder for people to criticize the ad.

[Ken Burch]

201. Yeah, the ad SHOULD have placed equal blame on both sides.

The IDF has caused a lot of Palestinian terrorism by its continual harassment of all Palestinians, many of whom had nothing whatsoever to do with anything resembling terrorism before the IDF started hassling and humiliating them.

Also, the settlements and the indiscriminate bombing tactics in South Lebanon have a lot to do with it as well.