Lebanese deaths, and Israeli war crimes, kept off the balance sheet

[4dsc]

Too bad these war crimes will never be investigated!!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14582.htm

During Israel’s war against the people of Lebanon, our media, politicians and diplomats have colluded with the aggressors by distracting us with irrelevancies, by concocting controversies, and by framing the language of diplomacy. In the fragile truce that is currently holding while Lebanon waits for Israel to withdraw, we are simply getting more of the same.

One example of the many distractions during the war that neatly reveals their true purpose is the “faked Reuters photograph” affair. The supposed scandal of a Lebanese photographer tampering with a picture to add and darken smoke from an Israeli missile attack -- to little or no effect, it should be noted -- has not only been decried by activists on Zionist websites but amplified by mainstream commentators into a debate about whether we can trust the images of this war.

Who benefits from these doubts? If we cannot be sure that this one photograph is genuine, then maybe many more that purportedly show some of the 1,000 Lebanese civilians killed by Israel’s bombardment are fake too. Maybe the dead have been airbrushed in as easily as a puff of smoke. Maybe too, were the smoke removed, we would still be able to see that Israel has “the most moral army in the world”.

But let us pause. How precisely are these two nations’ material losses equivalent? Israel’s derive mostly from the enormous costs of its attacks on Lebanon, the tens of thousands of missiles fired into its towns and villages, that killed mostly civilians, and damage to the tanks, helicopters and warships that were the machinery needed to invade another sovereign country. Most of the rest of the cost will follow from losses in tourism revenue and investment, the consequences of a fall in confidence caused by Israel waging an unnecessary war for the return of two soldiers captured by Hizbullah rather than engage in negotiations. A small share of Israel’s lost billions has been inflicted by the aggression of Hizbullah.

[leveymg]

1. Here's the scorecard civilians dead: Lebanese-740; Israeli - 39

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060816/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

[pelsar]

4. another scorecard:

WWII

german civilians dead: 1,840,000

american civilians dead: 11,200

_____

guess we can infer that america was the aggressor in WWII and used disproportionate force (and i didnt even include the japanese)

[leveymg]

7. Hi, Pelsar. Yes, I've seen that argument used elsewhere.

The only problem is that it's not a valid historical comparison. Of course there were more German civilian casualties -- the allies bombed German cities for five years, and then Germany was overrrun by Russian, American and British Armies. The Continental US was spared any direct bombardment and occupation.

All that your argument does is equate Germans with Lebanese and Americans with Israelis. Which is a point you might want to make, but that doesn't make it valid as a way to refute the accusation of disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force being leveled against Israel.

I believe the figures I cited do support that accusation, while yours are irrelevant to the charge.

Nice to see you again.

[pelsar]

9. what does this mean?.....

disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force

can i have some examples.......real ones not generalizations.....

I shall start it off (lets see if i get some answers)

I understand that destroying bridges is a "no no"

when is that true?

if a guy is shooting at me, and30m behind him is a bridge that soon will bring re-enforcements..or that he may use to run to shoot at me from behind a large rock...can i destroy the bridge ?

if that is considered ok (if its not then we have little to talk about, since its standard infantry tactics...) then how about 100m....now if his reinforcements are on the way and a bridge 2km will stop them, can we take out that bridge? or must we let the reinforcements come and get a better chance at killing me? (so as not to use disproportionate force)?

wheres the line?....



_____

i just refute the simplistic idea that more dead automatically means the those who did the killing are the "bad guys"

[leveymg]

16. Been away for a couple days, and will need some time to give

your question a detailed answer that it deserves. Will PM you.

Glad there's a cease-fire. Let's hope it lasts.

Take care -

[pelsar]

17. sounds good

the ceasefire is probably temporary....feeling is here that it will start up again in a couple of years, if Hezballa remains in charge.

[sabbat hunter]

2. the author

has a very strong anti israel slant. i checked out his website, every article is anti israel in one way or another.

[IntiRaymi]

3. Granted.

Care to address his arguments, please?

[Phx_Dem]

5. His arguments are so stupid it does not justify a response.

[IntiRaymi]

11. His arguments are not stupid at all.

He is stating the obvious: dead vs. dead.
And he is implying that if you ignore these numbers, you are buying into the hyocrisy machine.

[Phx_Dem]

12. No, his primary assertion is that "planned" distractions

are keeping the truth of "Israeli war crimes" away from the public via the MSM. He makes his argument using an array of intellectually dishonest tactics. If Mr. Cook ever had journalistic integrity he doesn't now.

[IntiRaymi]

13. Please enumerate these tactics for me...

I swear we are reading a different article, perhaps you ought to list them.

[Phx_Dem]

15. Here is a few--starting from the beginning

"During Israel’s war against the people of Lebanon...."

This is a "argumentum ad ignorantiam", to say the least.

"...our media, politicians and diplomats have colluded with the aggressors by distracting us with irrelevancies, by concocting controversies, and by framing the language of diplomacy."

Another "argumentum ad ignorantiam".

"One example of the many distractions during the war that neatly reveals their true purpose is the “faked Reuters photograph” affair."

Another "argumentum ad ignorantiam".

"The supposed scandal of a Lebanese photographer tampering with a picture to add and darken smoke from an Israeli missile attack -- to little or no effect, it should be noted -- has not only been decried by activists on Zionist websites but amplified by mainstream commentators into a debate about whether we can trust the images of this war."

This quote has several logical fallicies: kind of a reverse ad populum and good old fashioned exaggeration.

This is just the first two paragraphs....

[Solo_in_MD]

6. I can't see where he made a point at all

Lots of claims and assertions, no structure.

[MrPrax]

8. Good read...

oh yeah...the Yahoo death figures are wrong...even racist Israeli papers are reported the Lebanese gov't figures...note they don't dispute it, but 'rationalize' the IDF baby killing as 'attesting' to Israeli own offesive 'human shield' propaganda.

Lebanon Reports 1,130 Dead

(IsraelNN.com) Lebanese government officials report 1,130 people have been killed since the IDF began its military offensive in Lebanon 32 days ago. Some 3,600 people were injured.

The report added that 1,025 of the dead were civilians, with 30% comprised of children under the age of 12, attesting to Israeli reports that Hizbullah continues to operate from deep inside civilian population centers.

INN

Casuality Wiki:
Casualties of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict

Pick your number and you decide who won...

From HRW:

Lebanon: Israeli Cluster Munitions Threaten Civilians
Israel Must Provide Data to Save Lives

(Nabatiyeh, August 17, 2006) – United Nations deminers beginning emergency survey and clearance work in the south of Lebanon have identified 10 locations where Israel used artillery-delivered cluster munitions during the recent hostilities, Human Rights Watch reported today. Human Rights Watch researchers in Lebanon have inspected two of those sites in the village of Kfar Roummane.

Dangerous unexploded submunitions, duds that fail to detonate on impact but are still live and at risk of exploding, are present in areas of Nabatiyeh, Tabnine and Beit Yahoun, as well as areas adjacent to the 3km road connecting Tabnine and Beit Yahoun, U.N. demining officials said. They have been able to visit only a limited region so far, and fear that the 10 sites identified in the first two days could be the “tip of the iceberg.” U.N. teams have received reports of at least 16 casualties from cluster submunitions that exploded well after they had been fired, and they fear many more.

HRW more

Unexploded ISREALI Ordinance Ready to Kill More Children!

http://hrw.org/images/pressers/photos/300+/lebano14026.jpg

[breakaleg]

10. To me, this entire article is a case of stating the obvious...

Question is, why isn't it obvious? Why do we need to even point this out? It's like much of the world has blinders on.

[malaise]

18. It's obvious to all who

aren't wearing blinkers.

[newyorican]

14. Humorous or pitiful...

Take your choice.

The refusal to see the obvious leaves 2 likely responses.

Derisive, dismissive laughter or abject pity.

Too many have painted themselves into a corner with the blood of innocents.

If the choices are objectionable, blame yourselves.