Question About The Israeli Constitution

[K8-EEE]

A friend of mine told me that the Israeli Constitution includes references to expansionism based on religion --something about the real Israel is what Moses said in the Bible or something, and based on that their intention is to keep invading/occupying Arab lands whenever possible. Also that this idea of what includes Israel would include a good deal of the habitable land, as much of the M.E. is just sand and can't really support a population.

Are there any Israel experts out there who have a good souce to confirm or debunk this? So many of the sources I find are wildly partisan one way or the other it is hard to look up simple black-and-white facts! Thanks....

[ck4829]

1. There is no Israeli Constitution

[K8-EEE]

2. None At All?

Is there anything LIKE a constitution that is called something else?

[ck4829]

3. There is a document that is the unofficial Constitution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Laws_of_Israel

[K8-EEE]

4. Maybe What He Meant

Was here:

Israel may be another example of this model. In Israel, the first Knesset was elected as a constituent assembly and spent the better part of a year debating whether or not to write a constitution. The body was deadlocked as the traditional religious parties opposed the idea of a constitution other than the Torah (Five Books of Moses-as-interpreted), which is the classic constitution of the Jewish people, while the socialists were equally opposed because they knew that the constitution which would emerge would not embrace their Marxian vision of what the new state should be.

Well that is interesting -- it seems like they have always struggled with the religious and secular from the beginning. However if the Torah is considered the constitution, then my friend is kind of right....

[sabbat hunter]

19. the torah

is NOT their constitution.

israel has no written constitution. they basically adopted england's unwritten one for their needs.

[Lurking Dem]

5. Neither does Great Britain

which is their political model.

[treestar]

6. It may not be in a written constitution but there are some Zionists

who think that way. They may be extremists, though. The settlors may be an example. (Those who started the Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank with the help of the Israeli government - they made roads connecting these settlements that the Palestinians are not allowed to use).

There is also something I have debated on too, that it is a "Jewish state." It is claimed that it is a democracy with equal rights for all, so that if you are not Jewish, you are supposed to have equal rights. Yet the reason the single state solution is no good is that the Palestinians outnumber the Jews and the "Jewish state" clearly needs a heavy majority of Jewish people, or it can't very well be a "Jewish state." So there is the attempt to at least keep the population majority Jewish. One example, most countries allow resident permits for alien spouses of their citizens, but in order to defend themselves from terrorists, the Israelis will not allow Israeli citizens to have permanent resident visas for any Palestinian spouses they may have married (undermining the concept of equal rights).

And obviously that any Jewish person can immigrate from anywhere in the world. There must be greater standards for anyone not Jewish.

[Name removed]

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[Lurking Dem]

8. Thanks for sharing!

[cali]

11. Israel is certainly more than

your condemnatory one sentence slash and burn, with its tired implication that Israel (The Jews) control the U.S.

I actually have a bit of a problem with the Israel as Apartheid State. It fits the OT but it doesn't fit Israel proper. In the OT, Settlers have a special elevated status and Palestinians are treated like shit. In Israel, despite problems of discrimination, progress has steadily been made regarding Israeli Arab citizens, who sit in the Knesset, have their own political parties, attend universities, and practice in the professions. There is now an Arab Israeli SC Justice. The only codified institutional example of discrimination I know of is the one regarding residency for Palestinian spouses of Israelis. There are considersable obstacles regarding obtaining of building permits for Arab Israelis, as well. But, America, in case you hadn't noticed is hardly discrimination free itself.

It's easy to jump headlong into content free hyperbole, but it doesn't throw light; it merely throws heat.

[sabbat hunter]

20. israeli citizens

all israelis have full and equal rights. they all can vote, talk, write, pray, etc etc.

how exactly do they have our political institutions in their pockets? what exactly does that mean?

[K8-EEE]

23. I Think What It Means....

Is that there is no US poltician who can win a Nat'l election an criticize Israel, no matter what they do. Just like there is no way to win Nat'l election and say you are agnostic, or be Black....it's just one of the things you MUST do "support Israel." I never really questioned it before now -- this is the first time I've been asking, WHY should we?

Israel is a lot more interesting place than I thought, actually....the problematic thing for me is the Religious Right of Israel, same as here. Same as in Iran, same as anywhere. Fundies are almost always the problem. The settlers that were protesting, they think God wants them to live there. How do you have a rational argument with somebody who thinks that?

One thing I never knew before was there is a peace movement in Israel with refuseniks and all that....we are given such a slanted view of that country.

[Name removed]

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[Lurking Dem]

10. From the Nile to the Euphrates?

The International Jewish Conspiracy failed to tell me that! I thought we were taking over the whole world!

[Phx_Dem]

15. Sure--what do you think those blue stripes on the flag mean?

has nothing to do with a tallit, oh no, they represent the two rivers.

:sarcasm:

[Lurking Dem]

17. Silly me!

Ans since so many people have rushed to reject these two hateful posts.....


aw fuck it.

[cali]

12. What utter nonsense n/t

[sabbat hunter]

21. any proof

of your claim that is what they want?

other than your racist retoric that is.

[idontwantaname]

13. the wall

so you have israel, the west bank and gaza.

some folks who are jewish(typically religious extremists) dont feel that they should be restricted to live in israel, and they are actually entitled to the west bank and gaza. now recognize some rationale to the founding the state of israel is based on 2000 year old land inheritance... so in some strange way these extremists can make a good argument to the israeli public.

so now, within the west bank there are some significant jewish religious historical spots. one of these spots is near the palestinian city of nablus. another is in the southern west bank near hebron. these two spots you will see dedicated settlements with the most hostile of israeli illegal settlers(many of them east coast americans, many of the settlements funded by US charities). these are also the spots israel never plans to remove/abandon/leave. their solution is to build a wall snaking in and out of the west bank.. but ultimately connecting these spots with greater israel proper. the problem is that this divides the west bank into 3-5(depending on who you ask) different sections and makes travel from southern west bank impossible... same with central and northern west bank.

so in conclusion.. yes this expansion policy is driven by religion.

[pelsar]

14. the extremists/settlers have no argument....

the general israeli public and the IDF made if very clear when pulling the settlers out of gaza. The settlers at most had 100,000 protesting....that was it

there is no "greater israel"....there is a massive security problem that most israelis are very aware of: kassams from nabulus/bethlehm, hebron will reach major population centers......and there will be no reply that the IDF can do that will not cause plenty of palestenian casualties.

thats the heart of the problem: a replica of gaza in the westbank......

[idontwantaname]

16. replica

i would argue (as im sure you would too) that to avoid a repeat, it is important to see economic stability in the west bank... though the palestinians were closer to a secular society 20 years ago than they are now.

ive not heard of kassams being fired from either of those cities... and why was bethlehem on the list and not jenin?

[pelsar]

18. no particular reason...

i just threw out some names of cities in the westbank.....i would love to see their economy pick up......give them a solid reason to invest in their own society....Hamas makes me nervous, but then all religious people make me nervous....

rumors have it that the jihadnikim are talking about their own missles..and thats a really scary thought

[idontwantaname]

22. hamas makes me nervous too

i would hope for everyone involved that kassams do not start coming out of the west bank.