Since the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel has not won a war

[tocqueville]

Systemic failure

By Ari Shavit

Since the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel has not won a war. However, in all its wars during the last generation, neither has Israel been defeated. The Yom Kippur War turned from an almost-defeat into an almost-victory when the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) crossed the Suez Canal in the south and threatened Damascus in the north. The Lebanon War got tangled and complicated but nevertheless brought about Yasser Arafat's expulsion from Beirut and the dismantlement of the PLO sub-state he had established. The first intifada faded before Israel wearied of it, and developed into the Oslo peace process. The second intifada was repulsed before Israel wearied of it, and developed into the disengagement.

So that in four different campaigns - to which we could add the War of Attrition and the Gulf wars - Israel achieved a stalemate of one kind or another, which was not decisive but allowed a certain stability to persist until the next campaign. Accordingly, the second Lebanon war is different from all its predecessors. In the second Lebanon war, there is a danger that Israel will be defeated. If the large-scale ground move that Ehud Olmert initiated very late does not go well, the reality to which we are liable to awaken after the war is one of a first Israeli defeat.

A defeat is not a holocaust. It is not the end. The French were defeated in Indochina and survived, the Americans were defeated in Vietnam and prospered. Egypt was defeated in 1967, drew its conclusions and was back on its feet by 1970 and certainly in 1973. However, to prevent even a point-specific Israeli defeat, we must define the situation precisely. The attempt to create a fake ostensible victory does not serve Israel's national goals or national existence. On the contrary: it lulls the nation and prevents it from mobilizing all its strength for the necessary coping with its fate. If Israel seeks life, it cannot go on living within the gossamer webs of a military establishment with high-powered PR. It must emerge from the virtual-reality studio of the channels of patriotic ratings and look at reality as it really is. The reality is hard, very hard. Very hard, but not hopeless.

To begin with, the immediate problem must be defined: Israel failed in the first three stages of the war of 2006. The air offensive failed, the limited ground offensive failed and the days of the hesitation and confusion of post-Bint Jbail failed. As a result, Israel was perceived to be helpless in the face of a sub-state terrorist organization that was battering it repeatedly without being vanquished

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745748.html

[Dark]

1. "A defeat is not a holocaust" It would be for Israel, considering

so many nations have promised to push Israel into the sea.

[QuestionAll...]

2. maybe israel should move inland...

no sea, no problem.

btw, the seas around that area are in a bit of trouble with the oil spill the IDF caused. Was this just another 'mistake' or was it deliberate?

too many mistakes.
make no mistake.

[cool user name]

3. Kicking ...

:thumbsup:

[tocqueville]

4. a holocaust is the genocide of millions

it's not the evacuation of a population. Even if that would happen (which is not likely) it wouldn't be a genocide. What the world wants is that Israel gives back the areas it seized by force. The rethoric "they are necessary for our security" isn't bought anymore.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. How Are You Going To Evacuate Six Million People During A War?

And what's to prevent Israel from firing all their nuclear weapons before they are consigned to the dustbin of history?

[jrd200x]

11. They won't be consigned to the dustbin of history.

but that's exactly why we can't allow Iran to have an a-bomb. They'll use it.

[tocqueville]

14. I just meant that flight or evacuation isn't genocide

if you play with words like "throwing them into the sea" which haven't any real meaning other than empty rethorics mostly aimed at the local populations, similar situations have already happened. At the end of WWII
thousands of Balts jumped into boats when they understood that the Soviets were going to take over and flew to Sweden. French colonists (about one million) evacuated Algeria in the sixties. Of course it's possible to evacuate 6 million people - specially today - that want to leave if you have ressources enough and enough time. It would be tragic but it wouldn't be a genocide. If you take the propaganda literaly, that is to say.

Besides if Israel fired all its nuclear weapons (which isn't probable either) it would condemn them to eternal damnation from the rest of the world. It could be understandable if they fired a couple on advancing armies, but not otherwise.

Anyway the "Arabs" aren't that stupid to attack Israel before they have nukes themselves. And they won't nuke Israel, they want the land. So the final war has to be conventional. That's why Israel instead of bullying its neighbours should settle for a true peace through negotiations and return land. Because otherwise in 10 years from now they will not have ANY land at at all to negotiate.

I just reacted to the now overused world holocaust claimed as soon as a Katusja rocket blows up a hole in an orchard.

[jrd200x]

10. The "world" doesn't want that. Only Arabs and a few others

want that.

[tocqueville]

13. the world wants it through UN resolutions 242/338

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
Affirms further the necessity

For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;
For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;
For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;

Requests the Secretary General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;

Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_242

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967 in the aftermath of the Six Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter <1>. It was reaffirmed and made binding by UN Security Council Resolution 338, adopted after the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

[cali]

5. good, informative article

thanks for posting it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Shades Of Solzhenitsyn:

That piece reminds me of Solzhenitsyn's 1978 piece "A World Split Apart" where he wrote that the West and more specifically the United States were too self absorbed and effete to successfully confront the Soviet Union. Like in the current instance it is really an attack on liberal democracy.

[bemildred]

8. Solzhenitsyn was right.

The USSR decomposed from within.

[bemildred]

9. The US has not won anything significant since WWII either.

Grenada maybe. Lots of orchestrated putsches. Not one real war.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[k_jerome]

15. I am not much of a historian...

but what was the last war France won? ;-)