Bombing is backed by most American voters

[RestoreGore]

The Politics of Fear, Religion, and Militarism have won.
The brainwashing is complete.
Where has America gone?
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14365.htm

Bombing is backed by most American voters

From Tom Baldwin in Washington

08/04/06 "The Times" -- -- ISRAEL’s military campaign in southern Lebanon is still being backed by most American voters, according to a survey published yesterday that shows public opinion in the US once again sharply at odds with views in Europe.

snip...

Last month the Reverend John Hagee, a Pentecostal television evangelist from Texas, convened a meeting in Washington of 3,500 members of Christians Unified for Israel. The organisation is dedicated to building support for Israel, even in states where there are few Jewish voters.

Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican presidential hopeful, attended the rally, as did Senator Rick Santorum, of Pennsylvania, Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, and Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli Ambassador.

Mr Hagee called the Israeli attacks on Lebanon a “miracle of God” and suggested that a ceasefire would violate “God’s foreign policy statement” towards Jews. The evangelist is a leading figure in the so-called Christian-Zionist movement, rooted in a literal interpretation of the Book of Revelations, which predicts a final battle between good and evil in Israel, where two billion people will die before Christ’s return ushers in a 1,000-year period of grace.

“The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching . . . Rejoice and be exceeding glad — the best is yet to be,” Mr Hagee has written in a book that has sold 700,000 copies.

President Bush sent a message to the gathering praising Mr Hagee and his supporters for “spreading the hope of God’s love and the universal gift of freedom”. He is said to have added: “God bless and stand by the people of Israel and God bless the United States.”

More at the link
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Welcome to the American Theocracy.

[Artdyst]

1. I respectfully disagree with Mr. Hagee's views and suggest that it is out

of place for a man of the cloth to advocate action that he surely knows will result in the killing of more of God's children.

[RestoreGore]

2. And I most respectfully agree with you!

Thou shalt not kill! ( but it's OK if you are doing it for political reasons or to bring on the "rapture" to get votes.) Sickening.

[Breeze54]

3. I do NOT believe that poll!

PROPAGANDA!!!!!!! :grr:

[MrPrax]

8. I believe the poll...

On many many issues the American public is at odds with most of the world.

Why then would anyone think that on this particular issue, an issue that has been a 'settled topic' to the American media for decades, would be any different.

Of course to subtlely suggest that the US media is not providing the real story to the American people (to be kind) will usually invite 'Israeli supporter' type responses that the rest of the 6.2 billion people hate America, are stupid and understand America, want America destroyed, dismissive of 'our' freedoms, are just jealous, have equally 'bad' media -- but never really catching why it is on SO MANY issues (race, drugs, incarceration, terrorism, environment, international law, UN, stem cells, abortion, corporate ownership, 'public good', minority rights, gay and lesbian issues, death penality, etc etc) the US public is also at odds with seemingly normal folks outside of America, regardless of the partisan divide in America, which seems to be a stand-in, for serious reflection of the outside world.

Could it be totalitarianism? That was usually the old reason why a countries' people seem to be at odds with regarded opinion -- members of cults tend to think exceptionally as well and have ideas that are odd when compared to what is generally understood as a public opinion.

[Missy M]

11. I also believe the poll....

I can't tell you how many times I hear "nuke them all" meaning the Arab nations. The problem is I never hear an outcry against this way of thinking.

[ShortnFiery]

21. I agree with you Breeze54 ... This poll was MANUFACTURED!

I despise the fact that the Neo-Cons have a strangle-hold over the M$M.

They FEED us American Sheeple "the message" that they want us to believe. Thank God Al Gore invented the Internet! <tease, tongue-in-cheek>

The truth is seeping out from both The Internet and some Alternative Media Sources.

Hello! The vast majority of Americans have ZERO ties to the *Madness and Murder* in the Middle East. Most of us who have no background or ancestry look on in HORROR. We don't want any part in this BLOOD FEUD ... we also hope that our beloved Sons and Daughters will not be sent to Kill and Die ... War Profiteering and, in general, the continued rule of our USA's Military Industrial Complex over all our Foreign Policy. These Neo-Con Ghouls don't need no stinkin' diplomacy when they can just blow shit up ... and have KBR build it back up again. ;)

[madrchsod]

4. hagee hates judaism

he hates it to the bottom of his souless life. he is only backing israel because of the stupid rapture bullshit and it`s a great way to fleece the rubes

[The Magistrate]

5. Quite True, Sir

People like this are no real friends of Israel or the Jewish people.

[atreides1]

7. That's very true

But Israel and some Jewish people welcome their assistance and support with open arms and closed minds and eyes.

[JanusAscending]

9. Being a "reformed fundie", myself, I hope you have all come to

realize, as I have, that "FUNDIE'S EAT THEIR OWN"!! I wonder how he feels about the fact that Israel is now bombing the Christian's in Lebanon ??? I'm sure he doesn't care about them either, 'cause it's for the "common good" of all! Don't you realize that they have to "pave the way for Jesus return"?? :sarcasm: Wonder how he'd feel if these bombs were aimed at his church and his flock??? Selfish bastards, they are !! Jesus would spew them out of His mouth!:puke:

[ananda]

6. Well they didn't poll me..

.. or anyone I know, and they're all against the wars, all of them.

[OneBlueSky]

10. if this is true, it's only because the corporate media is presenting . . .

one side of the story almost to the exclusion of the other . . . as per usual . . .

remember: media giant GE is also one of the world's largest "defense contractors" (i.e. arms dealers) . . .

[RestoreGore]

12. And of course...

Americans aren't smart enough to do anything but believe the media. That's really sad.

[Peace Patriot]

13. Yet EIGHTY-FOUR PERCENT of Americans oppose any U.S. participation in

a widened Mideast war. (A poll cited recently here at DU. Other polls have put it more in the 65% range, still very high).

That's one of the ways that this poll goes wrong. To ask if something is "justified" is quite different than asking, "is it preferred?" What if you asked this, for instance, "Do you favor US and Israeli diplomatic resolution of attacks on Israel, or should Israel bomb civilians in Beirut?" I think you'd get a lot different answer (even if you didn't color it).

Further, the very title is inaccurate, "Bombing is backed by most American voters." They weren't asked if they SUPPORTED the bombing. They were asked if it is JUSTIFIED. A telling sidelight (left out of the OP above) is that one quarter of the 59% who feel that the bombing is "justified" also feel that Israel's method of dealing with the situation is "overly harsh." So there are reservations in this group. If you subtract the reservation group, you get 45%.

The article quickly segues into rightwing fulminations about God wanting the slaughter of the infidels. This is typical war profiteering corporate news monopoly framing, which is primarily aimed at convincing YOU AND ME that other Americans are nuts, that we sane and peace-minded people are in the minority, and that we might as well give up--the insane have won. This intent is suggested by a wrong fact in the article--further down--when the writer/propagandist reveals the different EU view of Israel's actions. The English and the Germans are about 75-80% opposed to Israel's attack on Lebanon, and the writer says, "Such a division across the Atlantic in Western public opinion is similar to that which opened up over whether there should be an invasion of Iraq."

This is just simply wrong. FIFTY-SIX PERCENT of Americans opposed Bush's preemptive strike on Iraq way back before the invasion in Feb. '03. They had heard Colin Powell's pack of lies. They didn't buy it--even before all the lies were exposed. That opposition has dipped only once, in the few weeks of the invasion, with US troops at max risk, then went right back up to nearly 60%, where it remained throughout the 2004 election. It's over 70% today. I'll never forget those numbers in Feb. '03. It was my first clue to the coming stolen election. The writer clearly has the agenda of painting the American people are warmongering, when they very clearly are not.

The 59% stat (that Israel is "justified") is the weak reed that all this rightwing blather sits upon. But when you look at it--and the attendant blather--a little closer, and take other information into consideration, a quite different, and much iffier interpretation emerges, thus: Americans think that the Mideast war is Israel's concern. If they're getting rocketed, they have a right to defend themselves. Keep us out of it!

And now, if you add in the one-sided disinformation that spews from our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, 24/7, about the Israel/Lebanon situation, and consider the intent to prep the American people for the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident (coming up) by which the Bush junta will jump into "Israel's war," I think you can fairly knock off 5% to 10% more (of that 59% "justified" figure). If Americans KNEW about the "Project for a New American Century"--the Bushite/NeoCon plan to invade and occupy ALL Mideast oil fields (the plan that the corporate news monopolies have black-holed, like so much else)--they would be more likely to understand what Israel is doing, as the Bushites' proxy, and be opposed to it as a deceptive scheme aimed at a *US* Mideast-wide war, in defiance of the overwhelming opinion of the American people. And if you subtract those who think Israel's reaction was "excessive," and subtract again on disinformation (poorly informed responders to the poll), you end up with only about 30% to 35% who are gungho on Israel bombing and invading Lebanon. Bush's base. The crazies covered in the article.

The article also plays games with another statistic. "The support for Israel of 50 million American evangelicals chimes with the reality of the Administration’s foreign policy." When you have authoritarian, greedy, white, male, rightwing preachers spewing their poison to cowed congregations, I don't think you can take anything for granted about what the members of those congregations really think. They are being brainwashed. They are being lied to and disinformed. They may be dependent on rightwing fathers and husbands--or employers. Their daily bread may be an item of extortion. I think this figure is GREATLY exaggerated. There is no support for it in the article. It seems to come from this nutcase, Hagee (who talks about “God’s foreign policy statement” towards Jews). Are we to trust foaming-at-the-mouth rightwing preachers on their level of support?

The article implies that "support for Israel" among these "50 million" is equivalent to support for bombing and violence and more war. That's a big assumption. "Chimes with..."--whatever that means. There is no way to know what those "50 million" really think, except to poll them away from their preachers and patriarchal husbands.

The article is Times of London--a rightwing, warmongering Tory rag.

RestoreGore prefaces this article with...

"The Politics of Fear, Religion, and Militarism have won.
"The brainwashing is complete.
"Where has America gone?"

I think we ought to resist scare tactics like this, and become more alert to how war profiteering corporate news monopolies are manipulating our perceptions of the world, of other human beings, and of our fellow Americans. All other polls show Americans to be overwhelminglyly peace and justice-minded, progressive, and better informed than anyone gives them credit for. And I think there is a conscious, deliberate effort in the corporate press to paint us otherwise, contrary to the facts, in order to disempower and demoralize us. This shouldn't surprise us, since they have also colluded on stolen elections, the mechanism by which our rightful influence on our government has been removed.

[Breeze54]

14. I am soooo impressed!!

:woohoo: :applause: Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :applause: :woohoo:
:P I definatley couldn't have said it any better!! :rofl:

:toast: :hi: :loveya: :grouphug: :headbang: :yourock: :patriot:

[RestoreGore]

15. My words aren't scare tactics

Bush is still in the WH, isn't he? This war goes on, doesn't it? The Christian RW runs the policy, don't they? THAT's what's scary. And they are using the politics of fear, religion, and militarism to install their agenda... If so many Americans believe in peace and that isn't true, how did it get to this?

[Peace Patriot]

18. I wasn't talking about you, Restore Gore! Sorry if I gave that impression.

Although your summation--that "the Politics of Fear, Religion, and Militarism have won," that "the brainwashing is complete," and your plaintive question, "Where has American gone?"--do convey an inaccurate picture of Americans, I didn't mean that YOU were trying to disempower anybody, or mischaracterize anybody--I don't think you were--other than in the sense of a warning. I took it more as a cry of despair.

What I am saying is that we need to put up a strong psychic resistance to articles and other news items like this, which are NOT intended to inform and educate. They are PROPAGANDA. They are ILL-INTENDED. In this case, I think the intention is quite conscious. The article is deliberately constructed to DISINFORM. And it plays fast and loose with the facts. Sometimes this kind of writing is just unconscious attitudes that reporters pick up from their corporate masters, but in this case the article is venomous and pointed in its effort to paint all of America as rightwing crazies and warmongers. And whether it's coming from the left or the right--in this case, the right (the London Times)--it's WRONG.

[RestoreGore]

19. Well considering the last six years....

If Bush's approval ratings are so low and so many people in America are onto all of this, where is the action to save our Democracy from these bastards taking it all the way down? This poll may well then be accurate regarding this issue not because the respondants are ignorant, but AFRAID. Afraid to say they are against this Israeli -Hezbollah war for fear they will be called terrorist supporters or anti-semitic. Or perhaps, because the propaganda put out by those we don't seem to have the guts to remove from office have instilled that fear due to 9.11. And if that is true as I suspect it may be for a portion of respondants, then I think we can say their politics of fear is having an effect. If as you also say it is wrong, where is that poll?

[ShortnFiery]

23. Too Funny. IMO Bizarre even!

We have been told that Bush's Approval Rating is "holding steady" and 40%.

Doesn't it make you wonder WHY the M$M has decided to leave it at that? ... dig no deeper?

Just like the military recruiting numbers are no longer made public, the TRUTH may force the M$M to confront issues that their War Profiteering Sponsors (Sugar Daddies who will help them consolidate even further with RW Candidates in power) would NOT wish to address. :grr:

[ShortnFiery]

22. Excellent Peace Patriot!

:yourock: :applause:

This small segment deserves repeating on a regular basis:

"I think we ought to resist scare tactics like this, and become more alert to how war profiteering corporate news monopolies are manipulating our perceptions of the world, of other human beings, and of our fellow Americans." :hi:

[JackNewtown]

16. What can we expect given the pro-Israel propaganda in the US MSM? nt

[breakaleg]

17. I agree. If you only watch the US version of the news, and many

people do, then I can see how people would be duped into believing their spin. After all, aren't we brought up to believe that the news is impartial. It takes a little digging to discover it isn't in the case of most US news sources.

I know for a long time I believed the US slant as well. What it took for me is no US tv and relying on international newspapers to convince me otherwise.

[catmother]

24. i beg to differ, but i keep seeing all the devastation in lebanon.

the destruction in israel is not getting much coverage.

[SensibleAmerican]

20. Whilst I agree with the majority of the Americans, I understand why Europe

does not.

World War II was fought there, not here. They have borne the human costs of war much more than we have.

[catmother]

25. my husband told me last week that most american people

support israel. they can't all be repubs.

i'm a life long democrat and i'm supporting israel.