US urges Israel not to harm civilians in Gaza raid

[Poll_Blind]

From Reuters, via ABC:

The United States on Wednesday urged Israel not to harm innocent civilians as it prepared to widen an offensive in Gaza Strip.

"The hostage taking and the attacks by Hamas last weekend have precipitated the current events in Gaza," White House spokesman Tony Snow said after Israel launched its first ground offensive since leaving the Palestinian territory last year.

--snip--

"Israel has the right to defend itself and the lives of its citizens. In any actions the government of Israel may undertake the United States urges that it ensures that innocent civilians are not harmed, and also that it avoid the unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure," he said.

--snip--

The Arab American Institute in Washington strongly condemned Israel's actions in Gaza and urged the Bush administration to demand a halt to the offensive.

"The U.S. cannot stand by while Israel uses U.S. weapons to wreak havoc in Gaza," said James Zogby, president of the group.

PB

[Semi_subversive]

1. Pot ....Meet Kettle.

[rocktivity]

2. Follow the lead Bush has set in Iraq, and it's a done deal.

"Israel has the right to defend itself and the lives of its citizens. In any actions the government of Israel may undertake the United States urges that it ensures that innocent civilians are not harmed, and also that it avoid the unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure," he said.

LOL--those guys at The Onion have done it again! But since when did they start outsourcing their work?

:rofl:
rocknation

[ugarte]

3. Why is it, the US "urges" Israel, but "warns" others...nt

[The Magistrate]

4. That, Sir, Is Something We Can All Agree On

[liberalmuse]

5. The U.S. is allowed to kill 60,000 civilians...

Cuz we're 'mericans. I'm experiencing an irony overload once again...

[Poll_Blind]

6. Deviation from the typical "Israel had the right to defend itself" bromide

...indicates to me that the U.S. is very concerned about things going even more out-of-control.

PB

[Malva Zebrina]

7. This is a joke,

Right? Not to harm civilians. It's a joke. Has anyone taken into consideration the numbers of small, tiny, little civilians that were decapitated, shot dead or blown apart by George Bush in Iraq during his invasion and occupation? In fact has anyone mentioned that the "pre-emptive" attack doctrine to kill these inncoent little children has it's roots in Israeli doctrine?

Take it while you got the impetus. WAnt something, just take it on trumped up suspicion. Find resistance to that doctrine? State that you have a right to defend yourself, and then proceed to grab whatever it is that you covet and kill innocent people in the way.

[The Magistrate]

8. Do You Seriously Mean That, Ma'am?

Do you truely think that no power ever attacked a neighbor pre-emptively before the state of Israel was created in 1948?

[Malva Zebrina]

10. Straw man sir, and you know it.

nt

[The Magistrate]

11. No, Ma'am, Unfortunately

You made a statement that the U.S. employed a doctrine of pre-emptive attack learned from Israel. There could only be a factual basis for such a statement if the practice was exclusive to Israel. That is clearly false, of course, but it remains the logical consequence of taking your statement seriously. Of course, the statement had no serious intent to convey fact, but rather was simply intended to suggest all evil done by the United States is somehow the responsibility of Israel, without making any open statement to that effect, since it really does not look very good stated flatly in plain language.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Isn't it more like

which came first, the chicken or the egg?

At this point, someone (usually the bigger one) has to say enough is enough and just stop. We're running out of eyes at this rate.

[The Magistrate]

16. There Is A Great Deal In Favor Of That View, Ma'am

[Malva Zebrina]

18. If that is your argument, sir. then how can you explain this shift in

foreign policy to the "pre-emptive" attack so prevalent in the Bush regime these days? Did it come from out of the blue? Did it come from past experience with "pre-emptive" attack and invasion and killing for the sheer purpose of gain?

From whence then, do you think this quest for empire and conquest come from and do you think it is the right thing to do as far as the policies of any country go? Will we be firmly committed to this barbarian approach of bombing and killing and destruction simply because a leader says he wants to remove a man in power in another country? Sounds rather 1938 ish to me.

If you think that Israel is correct in it's pre-emtion doctrine, how do you think that others, on the other side, cannot also pursue this noble cause? It would seem, since you state that this is not a singular Israeli doctrine, and that there has been precident throughout history, how then can you explain the Iranians desiring to obtain weapons for their defense or the North Koreans for their defense.

You see, it does become a slippery slope after a while and in the end, can only mean destruction of all involved, especially when you get a fascist leaning leader such as Bush.

[The Magistrate]

20. Quest For Empire And Conquest, Ma'am

Is pretty old hat, and it would be quite difficult to identify the first attempt. Governments always seek to expand to the practical limits of their ability to do so, and continue the attempt till it meets obstacls it cannot overcome. Our government is in the hands of reactionaries and revanchists to whom such actions come as natural as breath itself: these reptiles need no tutors in the game, nor do they require examples to guide them to their misdeeds.

There is neither time, nor probably space, to compile a list of even most of the wars commenced because one power wished to head off a threat it perceived another might become. Very few wars lack some element of that calculation on the part of at least one party to the conflict.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zreosumgame]

22. oh and in fact, read again

he did not say 'learned from' he said has it's roots in, which while it can include that is not limited to that interpretaion alone. You however are attempting to paint with a broad brush and damm to anyone elses opinion.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

28. Au Revoir

And BTW don't argue with "The Powers that Be".

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Hopefully, civilans will not be harmed.

Of course, noone has shit to say to the current PA government. It really is a one-sided war.

[BayCityProgressive]

12. exactly

and this institute in DC asking that the US tell Israel it cannot respond to a terrorist attack is rich. Oh not a word out of the Arab Institute while Hamas and groups tied to Hamas fire rockets into Israel for weeks and kidnap soldiers and civilians...but the second Israel retaliates everyone comes out to bash them. I can tell you what..if the Canadian government shot rockets over into Michigan or started kidnapping our civilians I would be screaming bloody murder if our military wasn't doing something about it. SO easy to play the pacifist card when you aren't involved in a conflict.

[The Magistrate]

14. There Seems Little Point, Sir

In getting into some great twist over the Arab Institute's statement. They are partisan in the matter, and will of course support the side they feel in common with. It is the nature of conflict that each party to it turns a blind eye to the sufferings of the other, and to its own misdeeds.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Israeli soldiers are NOT civilians and attacks on them aren't terrorism...

The reason for what is happening now in Gaza is not to do with the kidnapping of an Israeli civilian, but the capture of an Israeli troop....

[Supersedeas]

13. while making exceptions for collateral damage & the massacre of wedding

parties of all sorts

[Vidar]

17. Not more than 300,000 anyway.

[MrSlayer]

19. As if they give a shit what we say.

Israel will continue to just do whatever they want.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Hamas Leaders Arrested; Israeli Executed

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- Israeli forces rounded up dozens of Palestinian Cabinet ministers and lawmakers from Hamas, increasing pressure on the Islamic militants to release a captured Israeli soldier, and witnesses said tanks moved into northern Gaza, widening Israel's largest military operation in the year since Israel pulled out of the seaside territory.

Adding to the tension, a Palestinian militant group said it executed an 18-year-old Jewish settler kidnapped in the West Bank. Palestinian security officials said they believed the body of Eliahu Asheri had been found in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

Hamas officials said more than 30 lawmakers have been arrested in the West Bank.

Palestinian security officials said Israeli forces detained the Palestinian deputy prime minister, Nasser Shaer, and three other Cabinet ministers, as well as four lawmakers in Ramallah. Several others were arrested in the town of Jenin, they said.

more...

[Andromeda]

26. As a member of the AAI I would expect Zogby to ....

say this. He has always been outspoken about Israel.

"The U.S. cannot stand by while Israel uses U.S. weapons to wreak havoc in Gaza," said James Zogby, president of the group."

Now, I wonder, how many countries have U.S. weapons? Too many to count I bet. So it's no surprise that some of the weapons Israel uses come from the U.S.

The I/P war is escalating and the havoc in Gaza was started by Hamas. They are firing qassums into Israel and they usually fall wherever they land and no special effort is made by the militants to avoid hitting innocent citizens. The reason that more civilians haven't been killed is because the rockets are not very accurate.

Suicide bombers still explode themselves in Israel so if an innocent is standing nearby they get blown up too.

Be that as it may, Israel doesn't deliberately target citizens. Hamas doesn't care because everybody in Israel is IDF to them. They don't distinguish between women, children, old people, etc. Anything human is okay with them. They have never shown any remorse for killing a bus full of children or a family sitting in a pizza parlor.

There are other budding militant groups sprouting up to take the credit for murdering Israelis also.

Let Israel defend herself. They can only depend on themselves most of the time and they do a pretty good job at it. Israel won't deliberately aim their weapons at women, children and other civilians because they only want to destroy the military targets. It just happens that civilians live in and around compounds where Palestinian militants store qassams, bombs and other weapons. They do this deliberately so when a child gets killed they can trumpet how the great satan Israel kills innocents.

It's propaganda and this is what they use to stir up anti-Israeli sentiment in other countries.

So go shove it, Tony Snow. Israel doesn't need your advice because you could give a fig about who gets blown up.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. In some ways Israel and Hamas aren't all that different....

You said: 'They are firing qassums into Israel and they usually fall wherever they land and no special effort is made by the militants to avoid hitting innocent citizens.'

Long before that Israel fired rockets and launched attacks into the Occupied Territories and made no special effort to avoid hitting innocent civilians....

You said: 'They don't distinguish between women, children, old people, etc. Anything human is okay with them.' That's also a good description of the tactics of the IDF in the Occupied Territories...


You said: 'Let Israel defend herself.' I agree that Israel should defend itself. Where I draw the line is that Israel must defend itself without the indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians and without committing war-crimes in the process...

For someone who claims to dislike propaganda, yr post was full of that very thing...

[cali]

30. Snow's statement

was sadly anemic. I know you support Israel, but try and look through a less partisan lens. Israel has cut off power and water to most of Gaza. That is collective punishment and many will suffer; some will die. The Israeli response has little to do with defending itself. It only makes matters worse. The admin should have issued a far stronger message to Israel concerning the illegality of collective punishment.