AP: Israeli planes attack bridge in northern Gaza

[iconoclastic cat]

Israeli planes attack bridge in northern Gaza


By Associated Press
Published June 27, 2006, 4:00 PM CDT


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Israeli planes attacked a bridge in northern Gaza late Tuesday, Israel Radio reported, and Israeli tanks were said to be on the move, possibly signaling the start of a military operation.

Israel has been massing troops and armor around Gaza since Sunday, when Palestinian militants tunneled under the border and attack an Israeli army post at a Gaza crossing, killing two soldiers and abducting a third.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

2. IDF begins Gaza incursion

Palestinians reports IDF ground movements in southern Gaza; planes and helicopters circle overhead. Following situational analysis in upper echelons, Peretz proclaims: The clock is ticking. IDF is prepared and willing to act

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3268283,00.html

<snip>

"Palestinian sources reported that an IAF fighter jet fired two missiles on a bridge in the center of the Gaza Strip. There are no reports of injuries. The IDF confirmed the report.

Palestinian sources in southern Gaza reported Tuesday night that they identified IDF movements in the direction of Palestinian territory. Most of the movement is in the area of Sufa crossing. IDF planes and helicopters are flying over northern Gaza.

Pursuant to a situational analysis among senior members of the defense establishment with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert this evening, it was concluded that time is running out and it is necessary to act forcefully to achieve the release of kidnapped soldier Cpl. Gilad Shalit. Defense Minister Amir Peretz said, during a speech in Latrune, "The clock is ticking regarding the soldier's return. The IDF is prepared and willing to act."

Peretz emphasized that Israel will exhaust all options in order to rescue Shalit. In a ceremony honoring the fifty-year anniversary of the Sinai Campaign, he added that "the current situation cannot continue. The Palestinian leadership is responsible for the life of the kidnapped soldier and we are willing to exact the price from anyone who is holding him captive."

[flamin lib]

3. Damn fools.

The Palestinians give a 15 month cease fire and the Israelis reward them by shelling a family picnic on the beach. What the hell did the Israelis think would happen?

All of them, blind and toothless.

[Scorpio2000]

4. Cease fire means no shooting

"The Palestinians give a 15 month cease fire "

What's wrong with a few dozen Kassams and Katyushas every day. Don't all countries fire them at their neighbors?

[manic expression]

27. Hamas

did give a cease-fire. Yes, there were attacks, but that isn't necessarily Hamas. Furthermore, Israel could have started to show some respect and decency, and perhaps the attacks would have waned or stopped, but (guess what?) Israel continued its oppression of Gaza.

[eyl]

31. No, there were also

attack by Hamas itself

[manic expression]

34. Please specify

Because even IF they did indeed happen (IF), the context and sorrounding situation is very important.

[eyl]

36. Here's a few

to start with. Note that these don't even take into account the PRC's ongoing attacks, which reportedly Hamas was using as a front; an accusation supported by the fact that they appointed Samhadana, one of the PRC's top commanders, to the post of inspector-general of the Interior Ministry (which is in charge of their security services) prior to his assassination. In fact, the latest attack was a joint Hamas-PRC operation.

[manic expression]

37. OK

"The group said the rockets were in response to Tuesday’s killing of senior West Bank operative Marwah Kamil during a gun battle near Jenin."

Hamas did use rocket attacks during the cease-fire and had no reservations about letting people know they did. However, they were always in response to something. Whether you think they were justified or not has little to do with it.

"Hamas also carried out a suicide bombing at Beer Sheva bus station in August that seriously wounded two security guards, and it was behind some of the attacks by rudimentary rockets fired from Gaza into Israel that frequently terrify but rarely kill. Hamas said it launched the rockets in response to Israeli attacks."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1697745,00.html

[eyl]

40. Except that

Marwah Kamil belonged to Islamic Jihad, not Hamas. And IIRC the Israeli attacks you cite were also against IJ targets.

So let me get this straight. Hamas declares a ceasefire, which does not bind any of the other factions, who freely continue to attack Israel. But if Israel responds against them, Hamas is then justified in attacking Israel, but this isn't breaching the ceasefire? Does this make sense to you?

[manic expression]

42. However,

Hamas has a right to object to such attacks, regardless of what specific group was targeted. The point is that they do not appreciate Israeli attacks on Palestinians. Further, Hamas is not without justification if they choose to respond to these attacks.

Hamas declares a ceasefire (an informal one), which includes them (I'm not sure why you keep asserting that one group's agreement applies to everyone). They follow it quite well. However, if Israel attacks Palestine, they respond. That would make sense to any reasonable person.

[eyl]

43. I'm not saying

their agreement applies to everyone. I am saying that if they don't take any actions to restrain those others, they have no call to complain when Israel responds to those others' attacks.

And tell me - if that's a cease-fire, why should Israel abide by it, or even pay any attention? After all, what it would mean is that Israel must stop all attacks against Palestinians, yet on the Palestinian side, only Hamas stops its attacks...

[manic expression]

44. And

the agreement didn't obligate Hamas to restrain anyone else. They do have a cause for complaint if Israel does attack Palestine, and it is because Israel is attacking Palestine.

First, Israel should recognize that Hamas is sticking to it by and large, and secondly they shouldn't provoke Hamas. Attacking Palestine doesn't help anyone, and neither does the killing of Palestinian children. These actions are clearly problems, and yet Israel has no problems with what it has so very wrongly been doing.

[eyl]

45. So if Islamic Jihad

attacks Israel and Israel responds, that's "provoking Hamas"?!?

And stop repeating I said what I didn't say. At no point did I say that Hamas was obligated to restrain anyone else, at least not prior to their election. But they can't effectively support Islamic Jihad (et al) attacks against Israel, even by serving as part of the deterrent against Israel responding to the latter's attacks, and calim they are upholding a cease-fire. Nor can they kill an Israeli in "retaliation" for the death of an IJ commander who was involved in attacks against Israel and say that isn't breaching the cease-fire.

For that matter, at least one of the attacks (the 40-rcket barrage in September) in the post I linked to was "provoked" by a Hamas screwup, to cover their responsibility for a truck of theirs which exploded, killing 19 Palestinians.

[manic expression]

46. If Israel attacks

Palestine, that is provoking Hamas. If Israel kills children, that is provoking Hamas (although when this did happen I'm not sure if Hamas did respond or not). That Hamas is not without justification for such replies is undeniable.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that Israe's "responses" which "target" "terrorists" routinely kill innocent bystandards (this is not to mention the fact that the "terrorists" are fighting oppression, but we'll ignore that for now).

They are upholding a ceasefire if they do not attack, and if provoked, a response cannot be described as breaking it. At all. Barring misunderstanding, you asserted that since Hamas was not trying to stop other factions from attacking Israel they were not properly observing the ceasefire, which is obviously false. They can use violence in retaliation and still observe the general ceasefire (which was informal, by the way). Retaliation does not negate or render empty the ceasefire which was being clearly observed by Hamas.

IIRC, Hamas eventually halted attacks during that time (I'm somewhat sure they admitted responsibility as well). Immediately after the announcement, Israeli warplanes struck again.

[eyl]

47. Well, let's look again

at the case you cited above. In the shootout in which Marwah Kamil was killed, just two people died: Kamil himself and another person, who, depending on the source, was either an off-duty policeman or an IJ member (of course, he could be both) by the name of Nasser Zakarneh. This was after the IDF force which was trying to arrest Kamil came under fire, both from the house he was in and from the residents of the camp. In any event, the announcement of responsibility, as mentioned in the YNet article, mentioned the retaliation was for Kamil alone.

So you have Hamas retaliating for the death of an IJ member who was attacking Israel. Not for civilians killed along with him, not for children killed with him, not even for other IJ members killed with him. I'm sorry, but that's not a cease-fire, whichever way way you want to spin it.

Barring misunderstanding, you asserted that since Hamas was not trying to stop other factions from attacking Israel they were not properly observing the ceasefire, which is obviously false.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me, or are you just not reading what I wrote at least three times? If Hamas had been trying to restrain the other factions, then they might have grounds to see an attack on one of those factions as an provocation. Since they did nothing to restrain those other factions, any Israeli attack against those other factions cannot be seen as a provocation of Hamas.

Retaliation does not negate or render empty the ceasefire which was being clearly observed by Hamas.

Well, if the IDF claims its attacks are responses to Palestinian terrorism, can we say Israel is observing a cease-fire?

IIRC, Hamas eventually halted attacks during that time (I'm somewhat sure they admitted responsibility as well).

Not that I recall. Tell me, if Israel declared a cease-fire, and then, following an explosion in Sderot, resumed firing at the Strip, and then announced "sorry, it was a misaimed IDF mortar round" - would you be so understanding?

Immediately after the announcement, Israeli warplanes struck again.

Well, maybe you missed the part where they had just fired what I think is the second-largest Qassam barrage of the year in "retaliation" for something Israel didn't do?

[PCIntern]

5. Interesting...

The supposed shelling of the beach by the Israelis - all right, let's say it's true- if only for the sake of argument- came as the Gaza Strip inhabitants were firing rockets at Israel. During a cease-fire, according to your post. Now it seems to me, but I'm not all that bright now, that if you fire rockets from a place frequented by civilians, then you're hiding behind a shield of ordinary people who, when the get killed, become martyrs. Pretty convenient that video of the little girl, wasn't it?

But that aside, you must admit that if the Israelis retreated to one square foot of land, then that one square foot would be the reason for thousands to fight and die to 'reclaim'. In fact, if the planet Mars had been given to them, then everyone would be showing up there, proclaiming that it was theirs and the Jews would have to give it up.

Frankly, I don't know what cease-fire you're talking about.

[manic expression]

28. Try this

Hamas was adhering to the cease-fire. Now, since Hamas has stopped the cease-fire, those attacks have intensified considerably (and since Hamas has canceled the cease-fire, a lot of more major things have "gone down", shall we say). It seems reasonable to conclude that the prior attacks were not Hamas (mostly, at the very least).

But that also aside, let's take into consideration the fact that Israel has not shown any real respect for the rights of Gaza since the "pullout", so those attacks were not unreasonable given the situation at hand. In fact, the attacks were not unexpected and could be considered a natural reaction. So no, it isn't a matter of hiding behind anyone, it's a matter of fighting for yourself the only way possible.

On your next paragraph, the fact is that Palestinians, by and large, want to be treated decently and have some justice. That much, however, has been constantly and consistently denied to them by Israel. The Israelis have done everything in their power to gain more land and more control over others, and it smacks of the highest stench of oppression and ethnic cleansing. Since you have no grip on history, I should tell you that the Palestinians didn't start "showing up" in Palestine, they were living there, and the Zionists came and began to take what they wanted at the dire expense of others.

You should know about the cease-fire, and have enough perspective to see the actual situation.

[eyl]

32. Tell Sasson Nuriel's family

how Hamas was "adhering" to the cease-fire.

[manic expression]

33. Interesting point

"But since it declared a ceasefire a year ago the group has killed one Israeli, according to the Israeli government's own figures."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1697745,00.html

If you find that unacceptable, you are simply unreasonable. That is a damn good ceasefire when any sane person considers the situation, but what do Palestinians get in return? Two murdered children in one week.

"They say Israeli soldiers killed twice as many Palestinians last week alone - both of them children - as the number of Israelis killed by Hamas all last year."
(from the same link)

[eyl]

35. that's rather disingenuous

since Hamas isn't the only attacking faction on the Palestinian side; and the others didn't pay even lip service to the cease-fire.

If Hamas had been doing anything to restrain those other factions, you're complaint might have some merit.

[manic expression]

38. Not really

Hamas is easily the most visible faction, but that doesn't mean they have a responsibility to restrain anyone. They observed the cease-fire (informally, but still quite effectively considering), but that doesn't mean they have to force others to do so. The assertion that they do is indeed unreasonable, impractical and meaningless.

[eyl]

39. First of all,

it's not unreasonable, given that they're currently the PA's government. But setting that aside, my point was that if Hamas doesn't take any action to stop the other factions, it has no right to complain that Israel is responding to the latter's attacks.

[manic expression]

41. It is very unreasonable

They're currently the PA's government, but that does not mean they have the means to do as you demand. Controlling other factions in Palestine is simply unfeasible for another faction, regardless of their governmental power (it doesn't take a genius to figure out that governmental powers in Palestine are not as concrete as they are in established nations). Secondly, the agreement was Hamas' agreement, not one which included or addressed other factions. Hamas honored the ceasefire, but that does not obligate them to make others honor their own independent agreement.

To make a comparison, if Republicans guarantee a foreign government that their officials will do this and that, that does not bind the Democrats or any other party at all.

Hamas can still object to Israeli attacks, which is not a hallow justification (the contrary, in fact). It has a right to object to these actions, and their participation in a ceasefire does not negate that right whatsoever.

[cali]

6. I unequivocally

condemn the Israeli incursion into Gaza. It's wrong to collectively punish civilians, but you're just flat wrong about the cease fire. Not only, have the Palestinians fired thousands of rockets from Gaza, but in April there was a suicide attack in Israel, killing several people. Hamas praised the operation.

[PCIntern]

7. I'm just curious...really

What would you suggest? I mean this - I'm not being snotty or sarcastic. These people are sworn to obliterate a nation. How would you handle this? Remember, we're not talking about one soldier - we're talking about repetition of this action over and over, with soldiers, civilians, tourists, anyone. What should they do today?

[cali]

10. who are these people?

Do you mean Hamas, or the Palestinians in general? And what about Abbas, who's made a herculean effort toward peace? Most Palestinians simply want to live in peace, in their own nation. The occupation, which is illegal, has been going on for decades. Life is miserable for the Palestinians. Quite frankly, I think the Israelis should have agreed to exchange women and children prisoners in exchange for the soldier. It's not like they haven't done so before. I also think the Israelis should evacuate the vast majority of settlements, keeping back a certain strategic number to to negotiate with. They should halt missile attacks into Gaza, at least temporarily, and see if the Palestinians can't put a halt to kassam attacks.

[pelsar]

14. serious?

They should halt missile attacks into Gaza, at least temporarily, and see if the Palestinians can't put a halt to kassam attacks

it actually was tried....before the artillery shelling, israel did nothing....the kassams kept coming. realistically until a single Palestinian "group" takes control and removes the weapons and political power of "the other", the kassams and attacks will continue. Some of it for internal reasons....

Gaza is presently in the middle of a mini low level civil war..and previous to the elections Abbas simply didnt have the political power to patrol the borders and kassam shooting sites. Unfortunately thats the reality.....the kassams wont stop until the Palestinians organize a society with a strong central govt that decides to attack the opposition both politically and physically

[manic expression]

25. Israel is obliterating an entire people

what about that?

[DELUSIONAL]

8. collective punishment -- as predicted

and it will go on and on and on -- dragging many innocents into the vortex of hate.

[Scorpio2000]

9. Attacking the collective bridge

Actually, it's called war.

There is an alternative, but the Gazans don't seem to consider it an option (peace)

[manic expression]

26. It's called

injustice.

The alternative is Israel respecting the rights of the Palestinians, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. such bullshit...

Perhaps Israel should just do nothing? The "vortex of hate" is not soely an Israeli creation!

[manic expression]

29. No

Israel should do something. However, that "something" does not mean further injustice against an entire people. That "something" does not mean more aggression and wrongdoing. That "something" is FAR from what Israel is doing and has always done.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. So you know...

ifamericansknew is a crap site. Some of the things they publish are very questionable.

As far as raw numbers, those numbers often include Palestinians killed while acting in violence. A few sites also include the terrorists in the numbers, some even include those killed by Palestinians or others (usually Egyptian or Lebanese). It is not to say that the innocent Palestinian numbers are not atrocious, because they certainly are. However, the implication that they are all the result of Israeli "violence," is just not accurate.

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. More Innocent Palestinians Are Still Killed

including the fact that almost twice as many Palestinian children than Israeli chilren were killed.

At least according to this site

[Scorpio2000]

17. ..

It's not a game of checkers. Israel has the capability to do alot worse but has been restrained.

Israeli children are purposely targeted. That's a war crime.

[AnOhioan]

18. ANY civilian death is a war crime...

It really does not matter if they are Israeli or Palestinian.

"An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

What we have is a cycle of violence that both sides refuse to walk away from.

Both sides are equal in their immorality. Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands.

And your comment "Israel has the capability to do alot worse but has been restrained."

So we should be thankful the IDF has not slaughtered every Palestinian in the Ocuupied Territories???

Your stance amazes and dismays me.

[wellst0nev0ter]

22. Restraint From Massacres Is A Dubious Standard

And as for not intentionally targeting children:

It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.

"Come on, dogs," the voice booms in Arabic. "Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!"

I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: "Son of a bitch!" "Son of a whore!" "Your mother's cunt!"

The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.

A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.

Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered- death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo - but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=113

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DELUSIONAL]

15. Reminds me of brothers fighting -- to the death

O.K. some brothers do get along -- however, I do have friends who won't keep guns in their homes because they were certain that when their sons got into one of their "to the death" fights one would shoot the other.

Some of the bloodiest, nasties fights I've seen have been between siblings.

Historically we are told that Palestinians and Israelis share a common heritage/ancestors -- and the way they fight sure seems that way.

Also I tend to have sympathy for the underdog and children -- and the kill ratio between the Palestinians does show that one side has a disadvantage. The hate and rage the radicals that both sides have for each other seems to be the same -- judging from published remarks.

For my friends with sons -- (and siblings boy & girl) -- growing up matures the kids and now they are the very best of friends. But the Palestinians and Israelis seem to be stuck in perpetual adolescence. And the stupid Americans help fuel this bloody conflict.

[Englander]

19. Troops take control of airport, open areas east of Rafah

By Amos Harel, Avi Issacharoff, Aluf Benn and Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and News Agencies

Israel Defense Forces tanks and troops rolled into the southern Gaza Strip before dawn Wednesday, encountering little resistance from Palestinians, in an operation aimed at pressuring Palestinian militants into releasing an IDF soldier seized Sunday in an attack on a military position near the Gaza border.

The operation, dubbed "Summer Rain," was launched after two days of failed mediation over the release of Corporal Gilad Shalit. Defense sources told Army Radio on Wednesday morning that the Gaza incursion is the first stage of the operation.

The troops penetrated one kilometer into the southern Strip, deploying tanks and armored vehicles in open areas east of the border town of Rafah, including the disused international airport at Dahaniyeh, Gaza's only airport.

>snip

IAF aircrafts also attacked a Gaza City power station after midnight Tuesday, cutting power to much of the area, Palestinian security officials said.

Just before the nighttime incursion, Israel ordered Palestinian security forces deployed near Rafah to leave their positions. The IDF then confirmed its forces had crossed the border, the first major ground offensive in the Gaza Strip since Israel pulled its troops last September.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/731555.html

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

21. Abbas calls IDF operation in Gaza a crime against humanity

By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent and News Agencies

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel on Wednesday of carrying out "crimes against humanity" with its incursion into Gaza Strip.

Israel Defense Forces operation Summer Rain, which began early Wednesday, has included air strikes against power stations and bridges and a tank invasion in the southern Gaza Strip, with the aim of releasing Corporal Gilad Shalit, abducted during an attack Sunday on an IDF base near Gaza.

"The president considers the aggression that targeted the civilian infrastructures as collective punishment and crimes against humanity," Abbas said in a statement released by his office. He called for international intervention to pressure Israel to stop the operation.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732368.html

[cali]

24. And he's right.

I think most people who post regularly in this forum know that I don't adhere to the blame Israel for every barking dog philosophy, but this is pretty damn clear. The Israelis have cut power and water to most of Gaza. It will take months to get the power completely repaired. People will die. Innocent people. It is collective punishment.

I've contacted both my Senators and my Rep. to make these points. I hope others have done so as well.

[Englander]

30. Independent;

Israeli missiles pound Gaza into new Dark Age in 'collective punishment'

By Donald Macintyre in southern Gaza
Published: 29 June 2006

As a textbook example of hi-tech precision bombardment it could hardly be improved. Smoke was still rising yesterday from the scorched wreckage of the six transformers at Gaza's only power station, each destroyed by a single missile fired by an Israeli warplane some 10 hours earlier.

Had they hit the huge cylindrical diesel tank 100 metres away they would have set the whole power station alight. But the strike was clinically effective, cutting all the electricity to 700,000 Gaza consumers, threatening water supplies and depriving its public of light, cooking, broadcast news, and ­ a crucial issue in scorching summer temperatures ­ fans.

"I'm so surprised that they did this," said Dr Derar Abu Sisi, the operations manager at the Al Nusirat power station. "We have been right through the worst of the intifada but this didn't happen." It would, Dr Abu Sisi said, take a "minimum of three to six months" to restore supplies at a cost between $5m (£2.8m) and $7m. "The Geneva Convention says it is not allowed to attack infrastructure for the civilian people," he added. "You might expect that economic infrastructure could be a target in the last stages of a war. But this is not like that."

The damage to Gaza's power supply was condemned as "unacceptable and barbaric collective punishment of civilians, including women, children and old people" by the office of Mahmoud Abbas, which complained it was intensifying what it says are the difficulties he already faces in trying to secure the safe release of Gilad Shalit, the 19-year-old Israeli army corporal abducted by militants ­ including members of Hamas's military wing ­ on Sunday.

The crisis escalated yesterday as Hamas called for the prisoner swap Israel has so far refused to entertain; another faction responsible for Cpl Shalit's abduction, the Popular Resistance Committees, threatened to kill Eliahu Asheri, 18, a settler it says it is holding, if Israel does not end its military campaign in Gaza, and a third, the al-Aqsa Martyrs, claimed to have seized a 62-year-old man from the central Israeli city of Rishon Lezion.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1129750.ece