Palestinian Police Storm Gaza-Egypt Border

[Colorado Blue]

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Palestinian police angry over growing lawlessness in the Gaza Strip stormed the Gaza-Egypt border crossing Friday, shutting down the border and forcing European monitors to flee, Palestinian and European officials said.

About 100 policemen entered the Rafah compound and took up positions alongside border patrol officers at the customs section of the crossing, Palestinian security officials and witnesses said.

The European observers — responsible for monitoring the crossing and ensuring the terms of an Israeli-Palestinian agreement are upheld — fled the area, fearing the situation was getting out of control, the officials said.

The police are angry over the killing of an officer Thursday in a family feud in Gaza. They said that because they have received no orders from their officers on how to deal with the situation they are taking matters into their own hands, the witnesses said.

The chief Palestinian security officer at the crossing asked the policemen to leave but they refused.

snip

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051230/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_gaza_chaos

[bemildred]

1. Boy, you don't know where to start here. nt

[Colorado Blue]

2. It's baffling. Here's an update:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/664411.html

The Gaza Strip's border with Egypt reopened on Friday after the Palestinian Authority negotiated an end to an armed blockade by policemen angered at the death of a colleague in a clan clash, officials said.

A spokesman for European Union security monitors at the main border crossing of Rafah said operations resumed at 3:15 P.M. The monitors had been temporarily withdrawn shortly after the standoff began on Friday morning.

Several hours after the reopening of the border crossing, a 14-year-old boy died after being shot in the head in renewed clashes outside a police station in Gaza.

Friday's incidents, along with this week's kidnapping of a British aid worker and her parents, were the latest in a rash of armed kidnappings and takeovers of government buildings that underscore the lawlessness in Gaza and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' inability to bring order to the coastal area following Israel's withdrawal in September.

snip

[bemildred]

3. Well, I don't know about baffling.

Not a pretty picture was my thought, and predictable in the circumstances. You can see the same sort of thing in Iraq, and for the same sorts of reasons. If you attack and erode the institutions of civil order, you get crime, chaos, and violence. It doesn't suggest the UN monitors are going to be much use, either.

[pelsar]

4. which means?

"If you attack and erode the institutions of civil order"

i believe these are palestenains attacking palestenians.....

[bemildred]

5. Whatever means you have at hand I suppose. nt

[Colorado Blue]

14. Ah - that's an attempt at an excuse and also it papers over

certain facts:

1. Tribal societies, organized along familial lines, don't easily and magically translate into Western-style democratic states. In fact it was difficult for the United States, with its many civil conflicts and outright wars, to become a modern Western-style democracy and there was no problem like the war in Iraq to contend with.

The problem is that violence is regarded as expedient and is has been historically glorified - both in the East and in the West. If there is a "holy" component then we are in double trouble.

2. Violence in the Middle East long predates Iraq and it predates Israel. We also see similar situations in Africa and we are beginning to see signs of it in East Asia. A Christian market in Indonesia was blown up today with a homemade bomb, filled with nails. I would be very careful to assign any one narrow cause to such situations.

3. This particular region, including Gaza, has a certain history, that predates the birth of Israel. In your scenario, one is assuming a civil local government in the past, that has degraded due to occupation, etc. This isn't necessarily the case. In fact this was a feudal society controlled by powerful families, tribal warlords and empires. Gaza was a staging zone for terror before Israel was even born.

And, the area in general was far more sparsely populated than it is today - tribal skirmishes were both culturally normal and they weren't nearly as serious as they are now, in the context of heavily populated modern nation or citystates and high tech weaponry.

4. At some point the people who live in these regions have to make the choice, to stand with the creators of chaos or to take the path of civil, nonviolent solutions to problems. I don't know to what extent they're merely powerless against the gunmen and the warlords and to what extent they actually support their actions. But only a majority of loud and outraged voices speaking out against violence and lawlessness will effect permanent change.

5. The UN, the EU and other powers MUST help those who would make the above changes. It's vital that ordinary citizens, who want law and order and who reject chaos and violence, have hope and protection and if their local police are out shooting up international border crossings, then SOMEBODY ELSE has to help them. Otherwise we're going to be left with Rwanda, with Sudan, Uganda, and with another - or should I say - continuing - tragedy.

[Englander]

20. Those *FACTS* are 90% *OPINION*.

1. = Opinion.
2. = Fact.
3. = Opinion.
4. = Opinion.
5. = Opinion.

Here's a fun game, 'Fact or Opinion?'

http://www.quia.com/pop/12709.html

:)

[barb162]

25. Those facts (items 1-3) ARE facts.

For example, what tribal societies do you know that just spring right up into functioning democracies or republics?And items 4 and 5 are facts interspersed with very solid opinions, such as Colorado's point about EU and UN help. Come on, is Bolivia going to step in and solve the problems over there? What Colorado Blue wrote was very good and to the point

[Englander]

26. lol. What score did you get in the test?

You should try having a go, if you haven't, it appears you may need reminding of
the diff. between fact/opinion. 29 is the score to beat.

For eg, which is a Fact, & which is Opinion?

~The US Civil War lasted from 1861-1865.~

~It was difficult for the US to become a modern, Western-style democracy.~

[bemildred]

28. Well, I must say, you have far more patience than I.

I gave up after trying to figure out what I excused.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Colorado Blue]

22. I wrote it. I have been studying the M.E. for over 50 years.

So, you have something to add to the conversation? I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Me, I've been studying at the Uni of the Kitchen Table for 55 years...

fwiw, I thought it was a very poor analysis, ridden with opinions and very light on with facts and 'give me a break'...


Violet...

[barb162]

24. Excellent analysis, Colorado Blue

[Wordie]

6. British hostages freed in Gaza (this is what the closing was about, imho)

10.15pm
British hostages freed in Gaza

Staff and agencies
Friday December 30, 2005

A British family kidnapped at gunpoint in Gaza have been released, British and Palestinian officials said tonight.

Aid worker Kate Burton, 24, and her parents Hugh, 73, and Helen, 55, have been freed two days after gunmen abducted the family near the Palestinian border with Egypt, according to Palestinian mediator Kamal Sharafi.

A British diplomat told the Associated Press that the family was safe and with Palestinian security personnel in Gaza City.

The aid worker, who works at the al-Mezan human rights centre, was showing her parents - who were visiting from Newbury in Berkshire - around the town of Rafah when they were reportedly forced into a white Mercedes at around 4pm local time. Security vehicles gave chase but eventually lost the car.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1675687,00.html

[Scurrilous]

7. Good news!

:thumbsup:

[bemildred]

8. Indeed.

:applause:

[Wordie]

9. Yes, very good news (Perhaps we have all needed to hear some!) n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

10. Opinions and facts

It appears the facts of the article do not really support your opinion. But, the very definition of opinion doesn't call for it to be based in fact. The border was closed because "The police are angry over the killing of an officer Thursday in a family feud in Gaza."

[Wordie]

11. That's why I made clear it was opinion. Can't you join in celebrating this

very good news of the release of these people?

[Behind the Aegis]

12. We were both clear.

My post was nothing more than clarification. Your post, while welcomed news, was not the main point of the article. I wouldn't have responded, like I didn't in your other post, except you stated an opinion for which I greatly disagreed based on the facts.

[barb162]

15. It is wonderful news about the release of the kidnapped people

[Englander]

13. Kidnapped Britons freed in Gaza

A British human rights worker kidnapped in Gaza with her parents has spoken of their ordeal following their release.

Kate Burton, 24, told the BBC they had been treated well by their captors over the two-and-a-half days they were held, but that her parents were "tired".

A group called The Mujahadeen Brigades has released a video denouncing the UK and threatening to take more hostages.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4570590.stm#

Good news!

[Colorado Blue]

16. Good news that they're threatening to take more hostages?

I'm grateful that the Burtons have been released unharmed and that the teachers taken a few days ago were also released unharmed.

SO FAR a disaster has been averted.

[Englander]

18. No, good news that Kate was not harmed, & was released.

Which I thought was obvious, that my comment referred to that, I don't
know why anyone would, or could, misinterpret the comment. Why on earth
would anyone think that the threat of more hostage-taking is 'good news'?!?

--SO FAR a disaster has been averted.--

There won't be one, this is not Iraq.

[Englander]

19. ~~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x108960

[barb162]

17. another instance of self-inflicted Palestinian-on-Palestinian chaos

Scene after scene this week on the network news of violence and chaos