Hillary Calls Israel a 'Beacon' of Democracy

[barb162]

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0550,lombardi,70903,2.html


by Kristen Lombardi
December 11th, 2005 10:09 PM

On Sunday evening, Senator Hillary Clinton delivered the keynote address to a 700-strong crowd of students, faculty, and friends of Yeshiva University, at its 81st annual Hanukkah dinner. The university also bestowed New York’s junior senator with an honorary doctor of law degree, commending her “strong” advocacy for the state. In her speech, Clinton spoke of her high-profile trip last month to Israel, and the fight the United States and Israel share against terrorism.
snip

"I just returned from a trip to Israel. It was my second trip as senator, my first as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. My husband and I were there to memorialize a dear friend, someone whom I greatly admired, former Prime Minister Rabin. And my trip focused on shared security challenges that Israel and United States face. . . . The United States and Israel share deep and lasting bonds. . . . They are bonds forged in a common struggle for human rights, democracy, and freedom . . . There is no doubt that these strong bonds and values will remain as the lodestar of our relationship with our fellow democracy and ally. And Israel is not only our ally; it is a beacon of what democracy can and should mean. . . . If the people of the Middle East are not sure what democracy means, let them look to Israel."

<. . .>

"The first priority of any government is to protect and ensure the safety of its citizens. And that is why I have been a strong supporter of Israel’s right to build a security barrier to try to keep those who would do harm to Israel out of Israel. I’ve taken the International Court of Justice to task for questioning Israel’s right to build the security barrier. On this trip, I wanted to see it with my own eyes. I went to Gilo, a Jerusalem neighborhood, and was briefed by Colonel Danny Tirza, who has overseen construction of the fence. He explained how before the construction commenced, residents of Gilo would come under fire. He left a very vivid image in my mind as he talked about how in the kitchens . . . facing the territory leading to Bethlehem, people would come and open the refrigerator to get something to eat or drink during a television break and get fired upon. He told me in great detail how hard the Israelis had worked to avoid constructing the fence. How when the shots began coming into Gilo, this colonel and others called their counterparts in Bethlehem and said, ‘We’re being fired upon. Find the people who are doing this and stop them.’ But it did not stop. His description of the necessity for the fence and its effectiveness left me with an even greater appreciation for importance and rationale."

<. . .>

"In addition, I held a series of meetings with Israeli officials, including the prime minister and the foreign minister and the head of the to discuss such challenges we confront. In each of these meetings, we talked at length about the dire threat posed by the potential of a nuclear-armed Iran, not only to Israel, but also to Europe and Russia. Just this week, the new president of Iran made further outrageous comments that attacked Israel’s right to exist that are simply beyond the pale of international discourse and acceptability. During my meeting with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, I was reminded vividly of the threats that Israel faces every hour of every day. An aide . . . interrupted him to tell him of a rocket attack on a town that lies near the Gaza Strip, a place that had often seen attacks. It became even more clear how important it is for the United States to stand with Israel, united against terror, as it begins to take risks, starting with the Gaza disengagement that the Israeli government is undertaking."
snip

[HereSince1628]

1. Well, each of us is entitled to our opinions...

Hillary should be entitled to no less.

[bahrbearian]

2. Good now we have Democracy in the Middle East, Now lets go.

[comradebillyboy]

8. good idea

nt

[dogman]

3. It's too bad ,that just like the USA, it gets hijacked by RW fanatics

from time to time. It's also too bad that people fail to recognize the violence that it took before it developed into one.

[barb162]

4. Are you implying she's a RW fanatic?

[dogman]

12. No, I'm writing that the USA is also a "Beacon" of Democracy except

at times like now, when we are showing a Fascist trend.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. It depends.

Israel is at best a MAJORITARIAN democracy (vs. us being a constitutional republic). The policital majority legally rides roughshot over the rights of the political and social minorities (anyone not ethnically and religiously Jewish). But votes are still counted in Parliment and there is a separation of powers in the government. So, it could be classified in some ways as a democracy.

At worst, Israel is a theocracy going through the moves of being a democracy. The courts are not free of religious tenants. One cannot freely immigrate to Israel even if Jewish (e.g., converting to Judaism isn't your so-called "passport" unless the rabbinical counsel decides you REALLY are Jewish). Parliment until recently has been hijacked by the ultra-right, ultrareligious Likud party and has enacted laws according to the most severe form of Jewish law, not civil rights or secular law.

[barb162]

6. Israel is not a theocracy

and Likud is not ultra religious nor ultra right. I would call Likud "right" and that's it. Judging from recent events and a certain new party, I'd say the political scene is pretty vibrant there. As to your "MAJORITARIAN democracy" what is the difference between that and a straight old democracy. By the way, Israel is a republic since there is a parliament/ representative form of government. I can't think of one democracy off hand in the world today as no country's voters are constantly voting on every bill, law, etc.
Immigration...every country has the right to control its borders.

[Coastie for Truth]

10. Theocracy? US more of a de facto theocracy then Israel.

You posted

At worst, Israel is a theocracy going through the moves of being a democracy. The courts are not free of religious tenants. One cannot freely immigrate to Israel even if Jewish (e.g., converting to Judaism isn't your so-called "passport" unless the rabbinical counsel decides you REALLY are Jewish). Parliment until recently has been hijacked by the ultra-right, ultrareligious Likud party and has enacted laws according to the most severe form of Jewish law, not civil rights or secular law.

We live in the Evangelical Theocratic States of America - where the Founding Fathers were Christian (notwithstanding what Forrest Church says - he's a Unitarian - they don't count Evangelical Theocratic States of America), and where some states are seeking to impose Intelligent Design on the students, and where government funds for Stem Cell Research are effectively banned, and where Supreme Court nominees are chosen based on opposition to abortion.

PS - I am a Type II diabetic - a genetic disease process (see Elbein's papers) which is amenable to management by stem cell derived treatments (approximately 140 peer reviewed papers). I am already in first stage neuropathy and first stage kidney failure -- but the Evangelicals are seeking to ban stem cell research. And my faith permits stem cell research.

So please - don't talk to me in the Evangelical Theocratic States of America about theocracies.

<><><>

[IndianaGreen]

11. No shit!

Only in a theocracy would one read this crap being passed as science:

Chronicles of Higher Education

From the issue dated December 2, 2005

How Christianity (and Capitalism) Led to Science
By RODNEY STARK

When Europeans first began to explore the globe, their greatest surprise was not the existence of the Western Hemisphere, but the extent of their own technological superiority over the rest of the world. Not only were the proud Maya, Aztec, and Inca nations helpless in the face of European intruders, so were the fabled civilizations of the East: China, India, and Islamic nations were "backward" by comparison with 15th-century Europe. How had that happened? Why was it that, although many civilizations had pursued alchemy, the study led to chemistry only in Europe? Why was it that, for centuries, Europeans were the only ones possessed of eyeglasses, chimneys, reliable clocks, heavy cavalry, or a system of music notation? How had the nations that had arisen from the rubble of Rome so greatly surpassed the rest of the world?

Several recent authors have discovered the secret to Western success in geography. But that same geography long also sustained European cultures that were well behind those of Asia. Other commentators have traced the rise of the West to steel, or to guns and sailing ships, and still others have credited a more productive agriculture. The trouble is that those answers are part of what needs to be explained: Why did Europeans excel at metallurgy, shipbuilding, or farming?

The most convincing answer to those questions attributes Western dominance to the rise of capitalism, which took place only in Europe. Even the most militant enemies of capitalism credit it with creating previously undreamed of productivity and progress. In The Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels proposed that before the rise of capitalism, humans engaged "in the most slothful indolence"; the capitalist system was "the first to show what man's activity can bring about." Capitalism achieved that miracle through regular reinvestment to increase productivity, either to create greater capacity or improve technology, and by motivating both management and labor through ever-rising payoffs.

Supposing that capitalism did produce Europe's own "great leap forward," it remains to be explained why capitalism developed only in Europe. Some writers have found the roots of capitalism in the Protestant Reformation; others have traced it back to various political circumstances. But, if one digs deeper, it becomes clear that the truly fundamental basis not only for capitalism, but for the rise of the West, was an extraordinary faith in reason.

A series of developments, in which reason won the day, gave unique shape to Western culture and institutions. And the most important of those victories occurred within Christianity. While the other world religions emphasized mystery and intuition, Christianity alone embraced reason and logic as the primary guides to religious truth. Christian faith in reason was influenced by Greek philosophy. But the more important fact is that Greek philosophy had little impact on Greek religions. Those remained typical mystery cults, in which ambiguity and logical contradictions were taken as hallmarks of sacred origins. Similar assumptions concerning the fundamental inexplicability of the gods and the intellectual superiority of introspection dominated all of the other major world religions.

Kansas Citizens for Science

[barb162]

13. This is scary stuff you posted, IndianaGreen

But I'll be damned to admit we are there (in a theocracy) yet. Certain groups are trying really hard to get this secular country and its secular education system to be religious in every aspect. I think it is going to fail except in areas where the religious base is all-powerful. It better fail!

[Wordie]

14. Curious...

A series of developments, in which reason won the day, gave unique shape to Western culture and institutions. And the most important of those victories occurred within Christianity. While the other world religions emphasized mystery and intuition, Christianity alone embraced reason and logic as the primary guides to religious truth. Christian faith in reason was influenced by Greek philosophy. But the more important fact is that Greek philosophy had little impact on Greek religions. Those remained typical mystery cults, in which ambiguity and logical contradictions were taken as hallmarks of sacred origins. Similar assumptions concerning the fundamental inexplicability of the gods and the intellectual superiority of introspection dominated all of the other major world religions.

I would see Judaism, with its emphasis on law, as the root of those beliefs which emphasized reason and logic, far more than Christianity. Of course, in a certain sense, Christianity is an outgrowth of Judaism. But the Greek influences are certainly relevant, too.

[Wordie]

15. Dupe, sorry.

[IndianaGreen]

21. I have the same problem with DU's blasted software, Wordie

Apologies are not necessary.

Peace!

[GatoLover]

31. The Likud

may or may not be "ultra-right" but it isn't and never has been religious.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Israel is a very democratic state for

its Jewish citizens. Non-jewish citizens have substantial civil rights and non-citizens are out of luck. And compared to Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Syria they are quite democratic.

How odd, this is one of the very rare posts where I actually defend Israel, mostly I am highly critical, but comparativly all of the arab regiems are just awful. Even Iran is more democratic than any of the arab states.

[pelsar]

17. congrats....

you just crossed the line into intellectual honesty....israel deserves criticism, as do all societies (it helps keep them inline)...at the sametime recognizing the country for what it is, is just as important.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. I'm just curious as to what constitutes acceptable criticism...

My experience has generally been (not from you, btw) that ANY criticism of Israel is attacked, and anything on the positive side about Israel is totally ignored. Personally I think minus the occupation, Israel would be just as insignicant and boring as most other countries that aren't in the Global Hegemon Club...

Violet...

[Jim Sagle]

29. Ain't nuthin' goin' on down under, huh?

;-)

[Violet_Crumble]

33. That comment has what exactly to do with the question I asked pelsar?

From what I can see, absolutely nothin'....


Violet...

[Jim Sagle]

34. We need an all Oz all the time thread.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Go do it in the Australia forum, then...

n/t

[sabbat hunter]

30. it is a

democratic state for all of its citizens. any israel citizen whether jewish, muslim, christian, etc have full civil rights.
non citizens in most countries are out of luck (unless they are legal aliens, but even then they cannot vote)

[IndianaGreen]

9. Every time I hear or see Hillary, I feel nauseous!

I am sorry, but I cannot stand this conniving, amoral, corrupt woman. She could be in a photo op feeding the Katrina victims, and I would still be feeling like barfing.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Yeah, I'm much the same way...

I've never liked her, and the more I know about her, the more I detest her...

[ladjf]

16. Yea. Right. Mrs. Clinton, would you please shut up. You are

hurting the Country.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. great article.

It doesn't matter what....

[IndianaGreen]

22. Wrong messenger!

Hillary is equally despised by the Left and the Right, for different reasons.

Anything that gets Hillary's endorsement becomes radioactive!

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelsar]

24. very very true...

israeli democracy is meant soley for israelis....i'm just guessing but i guess englands democracy is probably just for the English...As is americans democracy.

but dont let that get in the way of good israel bashing....lets scream together:

ISRAELI DEMOCRACY IS FOR ISRAELIS ONLY!.....

[Colorado Blue]

25. Oh give us a break.

[Jim Sagle]

28. Israel RRRRRRAWWWKSSSSS!!!!!!!!! That's what I think.

:beer:

[eyl]

32. God, I hope not!

You do realize we have a seismic fault line not far away?
:)

[barb162]

36. I didn't realize that

:hi:

[Coastie for Truth]

26. AFA's Don Wildmon threatens ADL

E-Mail from NJDC:

Once again, a top Christian conservative leader, James Wildmon, has threatened to pull support for Israel if Jewish leaders continue defending church/state separation in America.

Once again, a top Christian conservative leader has threatened that he and his followers could abandon support for Israel if Jewish leaders continue speaking out against the religious right's attack on separation of church and state in America.

We first reported last month that a top leader of the far-right organization Focus on the Family threatened to withdraw future support for Israel -- if American Jewish organizations don't stop decrying the damage being done to religious liberty in America.

As the Anti-Defamation League, the Union of Reform Judaism and other mainstream American Jewish organizations continue to speak out on behalf of church/state separation, the threats to abandon Israel keep coming from the far right.

Last week, the founder and chairman of the American Family Association suggested on his radio program that if Jewish leaders continue criticizing the religious right, his followers simply "won't support Israel anymore."

Could it be that some Christian conservatives' support for Israel isn't built on the strong, non-dogmatic foundation that some would have us believe? Or perhaps their commitment to "Christianizing" America blinds these far-right leaders to everything else? Stay tuned for further threats from the right.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Excellent post, CFT!

Unless we agree to a Christian fundamentalist theocracy, the Christian Right will revert to its old anti-Semitic ways, is that the message they are conveying?

They were never our friends! They supported Israel because they needed Jews to fulfill their Apocalyptic prophesies in which all enemies of Israel are destroyed, and all Jews are converted to Christianity (those that don't are slaughtered!).