Are Ya Laughing Now?

[Van23]

I took a lot of crap on this site a few months ago because I thought it *might* be a good idea for liberals to take a more charitable view of the Second Amendment. I still think defensive gun ownership is a good thing for progressives--and never more necessary than now!

Don't think for a minute that these right wing whackos are just "misled" Christians. They are theocratic fascists who will not hesitate to shovel us into the ovens if they feel it will hasten the Second Coming. See my site www.liberalswithguns.com for more info on this.

To find out what an integral role guns played for the advancement of civil rights in the South during the 50s and 60s, see "Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out" ed. by Don Kates. Guns have provided the backbone for all progressive movements in the past. We ignore this fact at our peril.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

[Anarcho-Socialist]

1. There are a lot of pro-gun people on DU

You will find some major source of disagreement with somebody, it's the nature of the place.

Myself, I don't own a gun nor would I like to - however I agree with any American who wants to make use of the 2nd Amendment and get a gun... there are a lot of crazy right-wing nuts out there to bear in mind.

One day I may driven into gun ownership, it depends on "how safe" I feel.

[AllyCat]

2. I'm a pacifist, but I agree...

...we need to let the gun control thing go. And frankly, school choice probably needs to go in order to focus on fixing the schools we have.

[mosin]

9. Gun rights and school choice

You hit on two of my favorite issues.

You're my kind of cat.

School choice and gun rights are civil rights issues. (If you don't believe school choice is a civil rights issue, then you're not an urban black parent.)

[DoBotherMe]

3. I live in a midwest dark purple state

and I really don't understand this argument about guns. Almost everybody packs here plus a hunting arm or 50. Where did the myth start that progressives (a movement started in the midwest by farmers) want to take away guns?

[Inland]

4. Yeah, you'll still take a lot of crap, and deservedly so.

Anyone who pretends that guns actually provided for civil rights during the south doesn't know who was doing the shooting, and anyone who preaches the second amendment is for self defense means defense against the goverment and police.

By the way, if guns are so progressive, how come a heavily armed America isn't a liberal paradise?

[enfield collector]

11. you obviously like *bush being in power. we need to drop

the gun grabbing policies, they have cost us way too much.

[Inland]

17. There isn't a "gun grabbing policy" to drop. Just say you want Bush

in power and you are willing to lie about democratic positions to get there. Just say that you will vote for whoever is the most pro gun and leave it at that, so we know there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind.

[Van23]

24. I'm pro-gun, and I voted for Kerry!

Guns are the only issue on which Bush and I agree. However, I sure won't vote for him or anyone like him.

[Lefty48197]

5. Guns helped advance civil rights

Oh God, that's hilarious.

[Van23]

6. Don't sneer....

Just read the friggin' book. Guns saved a lot of black people from being lynched and heavily curtailed Klan activity during that time.

BTW: Blacks and civil rights workers DID need protection from the police in the South during that time! Who do you think the cops were protecting? The Klan, that's who!

[Pert_UK]

14. And the moment that anybody proposes travelling back in time....

to disarm black people in the face of the KKK, I'll be first in line to stop them.

IMHO - guns were once a necessary evil that provided some protection to minorities in the face of institutionalised repression. We're not in that position any more, so I think you need a better argument for their continuing legal availability.

[Jack_DeLeon]

15. ROFL you think that "those times" have passed?

Have you visted any of the other forums on this board? You do realize that Bush was re-elected right?

Plenty of people are saying that Bush and people like him are turning back the clock, so to say.

To say that "We're not in that position any more," and implying that we will never be again, ever, is pretty laughable.

Times certainly change, that is one constant, who is to say that that they will never change for the worse.

I'm not black and I'm not particularily worried about the KKK, by I'm a member of the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States. One day I we will be the majority in this nation, who is to say that someday some KKK group wont come out and say they dont like the situation is going and try something.

I would prefer to be armed and hopefully prevent that, or atleast make any such foolishness costly.

[Retired AF Dem]

16. And how do you know the position won't change?

Germany was a progressive crounty until Hitler came on the scene.

[MrSandman]

18. Matthew Sheppard might disagree...

Or any minority in Jasper, TX.

[iverglas]

19. the amazing presumption

Speaking for the dead.

Matthew Sheppard might have disagreed ... but he might not have.

So there doesn't seem to be much point here.


"Or any minority in Jasper, TX."

I don't know anything about Jasper, TX, but I'm struck by what a small minority of the African-American minority community, and what a small minority of the GLBT minority community, see firearms as the solution to their problems ... and how much larger the segments of both those communities are who see those who do as not speaking for them at all.

[MrSandman]

20. I referred to this, not the method of redress...

protection to minorities in the face of institutionalised repression. It was said it is no longer the case.

[RoeBear]

25. The right of a black man...

...a law abiding black man, to own guns IS a civil right.

[RoeBear]

26. And to expound...

...a larger percentage of law abiding black men have their right to own guns limited or denied completely simply because of where we live and what laws white legislators have passed.

[heatpackinliberal]

7. I can agree with you'r problems with guns but...

you may need to protect yourself someday from the very poeple we are trying to save, as koolaid drinkin makes it to easy to kill without questioning. I will not go gently!

[morningglory]

8. I have a bee bee gun and will use it if I have to. n/t

[mosin]

10. Red Ryder?

Is it one of the dreaded Red Ryder BB guns?

I hear they can put an eye out!

[enfield collector]

12. gettin to be collectors pieces now.

[Union Thug]

13. Isn't gun control a contemporary liberal 'cause'?

It absolutely never existed for consideration in the labor-radical home and community of friends that my father raised me around.

I feel as though my father and his friends are the traditional liberals. They were in the fray of some of the most bitter labor struggles of the 30's, 40's and 50's, were tough as nails, took no shit from anyone, and contributed more to the rights of the working man and woman than any of the 'gun grabbers' will ever hope to contribute.

I'm further left than most people on DU and I own a relatively significant arsenal of soviet military small arms. I think gun control is an issue that needs to go buh-bye.

I do agree that there should be comprehensive background checks and waiting periods on the sale of any firearm, however. If you don't like it, get a concealed carry and either a C&R or an FFL.

on edit: my website www.revolutionaryworker.com talks a little about guns, too (certainly NOT as much as liberalswithguns, though!)

[puttothesword]

21. An excellent book you might want to read....

Pacifism as Pathology by Ward Churchill. His arguments are amazingly tight.

[riverwalker]

22. NRA endorsement

I know of at least ten members of my family who voted for * strictly because the NRA endorsed him. If they had endorsed Kerry, they would have given their votes to him. This is a big issue, even in blue Minnesota. These are not gun nuts, just guys who love to hunt.

[Van23]

23. You are correct.

Dems need to drop this gun control crap like a sack of shit.