Should a pizza shop allow it's delivery drivers to carry a firearm...

[-..__...]

if the driver possess a valid CCW license?

Gawd knows it's a job I'd never want to do: treated like shit (by employers and customers), lousy wages, no benefits, crappy hours, etc.

It's bad enough that the person is putting their ass on the line and not allowed to defend themselves.

In defense of the shop owners, they assume any liability if one of their drivers shoots someone (doesn't really matter if the shooting was justifiable or not).

Question for the legal types here: if a shop owner allowed their drivers to carry a firearm with the condition that they sign an agreement that the driver assumes any and all liabilities, would that absolve the shop owner from any legal proceedings?

Options for drivers...

Find another job that carries fewer risks.

Carry anyways regardless of shop owners policy.


Options for shop owners...

Refuse to deliver to "high risk" areas.

Adopt a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy with drivers.


More on subject here...

Discussion Here...

[noahmijo]

1. I don't think owners have any say

If the driver has a concealed weapons permit, the car is his/her personal property therefore it's all up to the driver whether or not there's a firearm in the car.

I used to deliver pizzas most fun job I ever had, I never carried a gun though cause 95% of my customers were upper class so no real danger of some psycho running after me with an ax :)

If I however had to deliver to people in say The South Bronx area or something...yeeeeeah I might consider packing the Glock with me ;)

[crimson333]

9. were I worked it did not matter if you had a permit

if you were using your car to deliver for the store a person could be fired for having a gun in his car. Part of the policy we had to sign on the first day at PJ's

some did it anyway, because you an always get another job

[Spinzonner]

2. No

but a dual-use blow torch would be OK.

They should be encouraged to hand over whatever a robber wants and get the hell out of danger rather than risk a gun battle over a few dollars. They aren't allowed to carry lots of cash, are they ?

[Kierkegaard]

3. I delivered for a while as a favor to a Domino's manager I used to know

about 10 years ago. Several of the other drivers there had been robbed while delivering to the 'projects,' so I put a 9mm in my car console for just such an occasion.

It was definitely a 'don't ask/don't tell' situation. It was also handy as heck. I never had to fire it, but there were a number of times where I think having the gun in my waistband prevented me from being robbed.

[MrBenchley]

4. Cops, soldiers and pizza guys....

Hey, we had folks here who used to claim they needed to be heeled to go to church....

[-..__...]

5. Would it be asking too much...

to stay on topic?

[MrBenchley]

11. Yeah, the protection of pepperoni is such a sacred creed....

And clearly "pizza delivery" is a job that attracts only the most dedicated, intelligent and trustworthy individuals...why shouldn't they be armed? (snicker)

Once again, the topic is "trigger-happy folks desperately trying to justify plugging their fellow citizens."

[NorthernSpy]

13. and once again, the topic is anti-gun elitism

And clearly "pizza delivery" is a job that attracts only the most dedicated, intelligent and trustworthy individuals...why shouldn't they be armed? (snicker)


Soooo... people who work at crappy jobs especially don't deserve the chance to acquire an effective means of self-defense?

Y'know, I've scarcely ever come across a pro-controller who didn't seem to be at heart an incorrigible elitist. They're downright offended that some nobody of a pizza delivery guy might actually value his low-status hide enough to arm himself in hopes of protecting it. The nerve of such a person -- daring to find the protection granted him by the state inadequate! This little worker-bee should remain content and grateful. He has all the safety he deserves. What an insult to the benevolence of Us Who Know Better!

To arm oneself is to make a forthright claim of equality with all others in the society. Elitists have always perceived that kind of thing as an intolerable insolence, and clearly they still do.


Mary

[MrBenchley]

15. Gee, DS

As we see from the daily parade of innocent bystanders in shootouts, packing heat seems to be mostly an effective means of being a public menace.

You know, what I find funniest about this RKBA crap is that not only does it trace its lineage back to racism, and not only is it spouted as gospel by racists humholes all around the country, it even shares the same crapass codewords like elitist. "It's not those liberals who'll have to work and live with those people. But they know better than you."

"To arm oneself is to make a forthright claim of equality"
Horseshit. All it proclaims that one is scared shitless by his fellow citizens and trying to compensate for it with a deadly toy.

There's no fucking reason to allow some pimply gump delivering pizzas play cowboy at the expense of public safety.

[NorthernSpy]

19. I'm *N* S...

Just to clarify...

Post #5: DS
Post #13: NS
Posts #11 & #15: BS

Hope this helps! :hi:


You know, what I find funniest about this RKBA crap is that not only does it trace its lineage back to racism, and not only is it spouted as gospel by racists humholes all around the country, it even shares the same crapass codewords like elitist. "It's not those liberals who'll have to work and live with those people. But they know better than you."

How strange it is to catch a mighty progressive like yerself importing race and racists into this discussion, apropos of god-knows-what. If you're assuming something about the respective ethnic identities of the pizza guy and those who might wish to hurt him, then please say what you mean plainly.

:shrug:

Mary

[MrBenchley]

20. Oops....

My apologies.

"How strange it is to catch a mighty progressive like yerself importing race and racists into this discussion, apropos of god-knows-what"
Yeah, but it's common to catch an RKBAer importing that dreary "elitist" bullshit directly from the days of Jim Crow...wonder what's going to be next? "limousine liberals?" "meddling do-gooders?"

We already had "outside agitators" thrown around by the trigger happy just a little while ago....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=83863&mesg_id=83863

[MrBenchley]

21. By the way....

"If you're assuming something about the respective ethnic identities of the pizza guy and those who might wish to hurt him, then please say what you mean plainly."
Ask "If I however had to deliver to people in say The South Bronx area or something...yeeeeeah" that, why doncha?

Or ask "Several of the other drivers there had been robbed while delivering to the 'projects,'", huh?

[FeebMaster]

24. Pepperoni has nothing to do with it.

And clearly "pizza delivery" is a job that attracts only the most dedicated, intelligent and trustworthy individuals...why shouldn't they be armed? (snicker)

And clearly "law enforcement" is a job that attracts only the most dedicated, intelligent and trustworthy individuals...why shouldn't they be armed? (snicker)



Once again, the topic is "trigger-happy folks desperately trying to justify plugging their fellow citizens."

Hmm. I thought the topic was pizza delivery drivers protecting themselves. Why don't you have a little hissy fit now and post 15 bangs so you can get the thread locked.

[MrBenchley]

25. And feeb runs down law enforcement professionals

which seems to be a constant minor theme among our "law abiding responsible gun owners."

"Why don't you have a little hissy fit now and post 15 bangs so you can get the thread locked."
Gee, feeb...feel free to tell the board some more about those 15 bangs.....

[FeebMaster]

26. If you say so.

"And feeb runs down law enforcement professionals which seems to be a constant minor theme among our "law abiding responsible gun owners."

Well you were running down our pizza delivery professionals, so I only thought it was fair. Also, again, I'm not a gun owner.



Gee, feeb...feel free to tell the board some more about those 15 bangs.....

Sure. Some pizza guy shot a guy who tried to rob him. The pro-control folks were upset to see a defensive gun use. You threw a hissy fit and posted "BANG" fifteen times, once for each shot the pizza guy fired, and the thread got locked.

[MrBenchley]

27. Says it all, feeb: "our pizza delivery professionals"

"posted "BANG" fifteen times, once for each shot the pizza guy fired"
Yeah, it must have been a hell of a defense for the guy to have to shoot 15 times. Don't forget to add that the fucknut then drove away without calling the cops.

[FeebMaster]

28. Right.

Yeah, it must have been a hell of a defense for the guy to have to shoot 15 times. Don't forget to add that the fucknut then drove away without calling the cops.

You mean he drove away and then called the cops because he feared the guy he shot had friends in the area, which turned out to be the case as the police later arrested one or more fellows in connection to the attempted robbery, as I recall.

[MrBenchley]

29. No, I mean he drove away without calling the cops

after shooting somebody 15 times with a gun he wasn't supposed to be carrying...

[FeebMaster]

30. Uh huh.

So what ever happened to that pizza guy? He must be in jail now since he drove away without calling the cops and killed someone with a gun he wasn't supposed to be carrying.

[Trashman]

31. If the delivery people's

only worry was whether the thieves would take the pizzas or the stores money. They might not be concerned. But since people are killed by thieves for as little as pocket change, I believe the delivery people should be allowed to protect themselves if the need arises.

I used to work for a company than insisted we could not carry a firearm in our own private vehicle, even thought the state I live in says I legally can. I followed a don't ask, don't tell policy. Since it was none of there damn business what I did on my time.

[MrBenchley]

32. Ah, that vaunted RKBA logic....

"I used to work for a company ..... what I did on my time. "
Tell us, when you work for a company, aren't you on the company's time? PLEASE don't tell us you were doing unpaid volunteer work for the company.....

[Trashman]

33. Actually Benchley

When I drive to work, and drive home from work, I am on my time. The companies I work for won't pay us for this time. Also, according to our contract, we are not allowed to use our own personal vehicles for company business, such as deliveries, transporting workers, etc.. If the company provides me with a vehicle then this would be different. But the truck is my personal property.

When I am on their dime I use their vehicles.

[FeebMaster]

6. Here we have the ever classic

"no one ever gets robbed, raped, or murdered on the way to church" argument again. It's one of my favorites.

[MrBenchley]

10. Who Would Jesus Shoot....

[LibLabUK]

14. Hmm...

Coming to a theatre near you, soon...

Passion of the Christ II: JC strikes back
This time there's no three day waiting period

[MrBenchley]

18. The miracle of the flat breads and anchovies...

When a Pharisee complains that his delivery should be free because it took more than half an hour, Our Lord and His two favorite disciples, Smith and Wesson, teach the sinner a valuable lesson in humility and obedience....

[FeebMaster]

7. Yes.

But I suppose I'd be fine with a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which is more or less a yes policy.

[crimson333]

8. I loved Pizza delivery most fun job I ever had

I made good money even in the low income areas.

I never carried a gun, but I know some who did. They already have a policy of not going to high risk areas at all 5 PJ's I worked at. And there is a unwritten rule of don't ask don't tell.

I never had a problem in all the years I worked there, however, there was one driver killed at another store.

[goju]

12. No

I think if you are on the clock, the shop owner can prevent you from carrying. And even if they didnt, signing a "waiver" wouldnt absolve the owner of any responsibility.

I delivered pizza for a while myself. Went to some relatively bad areas but never had an incident aside from a kid on a bike trying to steal the pizza from the back of my truck ;)

I wouldnt carry on the job and I dont think it would be a good idea. One possibility is, you might get some hoodlums blindsiding you with a baseball bat just to steal your pistol. I never had more than a hundred dollars on me but, stealing a $500 pistol might be worth the risk for them.

[slackmaster]

16. Entirely up to the discretion of the owner or manager IMO

Like any other at-will job, an employer has the right to set rules for what people can bring to work and how they can behave on the job.

Any prospective pizza delivery driver who doesn't like the rules is free to ask for consideration like not delivering to high-risk areas, or to seek employment elsewhere.

Adopt a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy with drivers.

I like that idea, but an employer's liability carrier probably wouldn't. Policies and operating procedures are best stated explicitly.

[mosin]

17. Yes

Pizza delivery drivers should be allowed to carry firearms.

1. No policy by a pizza shop is going to prevent a lawsuit from being filed if a delivery driver shoots someone.

2. I don't believe a "no gun" policy offers much protection compared to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Either way, the shooting would be outside the scope of employment.

[goju]

22. And the store owners?

Should they be required to allow them to carry? Or should they have a say in the matter?

[Jack_DeLeon]

23. The real issue is...

should pizza delivery places disallow its employees to carry weapons.

IMO they dont have any authority to allow carry of weapons, that is entirely up to the state and local laws.

They should however not disallow employees from providing for thier own protection.

[happyslug]

34. My Legal Opinion

Is that if an Employer says "No Firearms" the employee is committing "Willful Misconduct" if he carries a firearm.

Now this goes to the issue of Unemployment, for if an employee commits "Willful Misconduct" that is just cause for termination and thus a pizza delivery driver would NOT be able to collect unemployment if he is fired for carrying a weapon his employer told him not to carry.

On the other hand the policy will NOT protect the Pizza store for any lawsuit if the weapon is misused. At that point you are into "Master-Servant" law and the "Master" i.e the employer is always liable for the actions of his "Servant" i.e. the Employee, whenever the employee is doing work i.e. dropping off the pizza, for his employer. Thus the employer will be sued by whoever was wrongfully shot and have to pay.

Now under Master-Servant law the Master can recover from his employee any money paid out do to the wrongful shotting. This is true even if the employee was told not to carry a gun or told he could carry a gun. The Employee is always liable for his actions, the Employer is Secondary liable.

Now the Employer could sue his employee to recover the money paid the Victim, but such lawsuits are rare for most such employees do not have the money to pay the judgment so most employers do not file a lawsuit but they can and that is how the law tells such employers they can recover for the wrongful actions of their employees. Courts have long accepted this "right" as more fictional than real but it forces the employers to make sure their employees do not commit wrongs on customers or innocent third parties.

[gatlingforme]

35. I always order a side of buckshot for the hell of it. Can a prostitute

carry too?