How Does a Gun Control Advocate Teach His Kid About Guns? Part II

[mikeb302000]

My boy Alessio, http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-does-gun-control-advocate-teach-his.html">whom I wrote about a couple months ago, has discovered video games. Up until now, he's played only racing games on the computer, both on the Wii and internet free sites. I've watched him learn how to navigate, use the mouse, write the few words he needs to do searches. I'd help when he asks or needs it, but I believe in as little interference as possible, always keeping an eye on what's on the screen. Suddenly, what I knew I'd see sooner or later was there, a shooting video game.

As I watched over his shoulder, he thinking I was still reading, I reflected on what it means. What does he think as he hits the right key to blow away the enemy figure? Does he feel something? Is there a connection between that simple game and real killing? If a kid immersed himself in the more realistic video games, and spends hours a day playing, would that cause damage?

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/11/should-toy-guns-be-banned.html">I remembered a recent post in which I declared toy guns should be banned. "Ban the sumbitches" is what I said. The reason I had in mind was the fact that nowadays toy guns often look extremely realistic. Cops, and others, mistake them for the real thing. People get hurt as a result, and more often than that law enforcement resources are wasted.

But, watching my boy playing that video game, his first, I realized there's something even worse, even more insidious than the relatively rare incidents in which toy guns are mistaken for real ones. I was watching the very beginning of the inevitable and unavoidable progression that boys go through, video games, toy guns, real guns.

The lessons learned by countless repetitions of shooting and killing on the computer screen are eventually augmented by the BB guns and airsoft weapons young boys play with, and this is then all replaced , in some cases, with real guns. From beginning to end, it's about killing, and for the most part, about killing other humans. That's sick.

What I saw Alessio doing the other day is sick. Playing cops and robbers, or whatever kids play these days, is sick. Shooting at paper targets or animals is sick. But how can I help? What can I do to help my boy? I don't want to forbid and deny, surely that adds an element of curiosity and intrigue to the whole business. I certainly don't want to encourage these sick pursuits either. Hopefully, Alessio will grow into a secure young man with enough common sense and rationality that he'll outgrow these childish interests. That's what I'll try to help him with.

What's your opinion? Would it be better to shield him from the video games entirely? He's only 7. With a good effort, I could probably keep him away from them for another year or two. What do you think?

Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[We_Have_A_Problem]

1. The idea that it is best...

...to shield him from guns and refuse to teach him proper respect for them is not really any different than fundies who don't tell their kids about sex.

Putting your head in the sand and pretending something does not exist, or that because you think something is "sick" magically makes it so, is quite honestly the behavior of an ignorant and foolish person.

[iverglas]

7. yes, guns are a natural and essential element of normal human life

Why, without guns, the human race would become extinct. Without guns, people would not form fulfilling relationships and stable family units ... not that there would be any families without guns, since guns are essential for making babies.

Guns are a response to a hard-wired, millennia-old drive that human beings are born with and that can be suppressed, can be expressed in ways that harm the person and others, or can be expressed by learning strategies for satisfying the biological and emotional need for contact with guns and that will also satisfy their other needs. The need for companionship, for instance, and for respect, and yes, love. Guns are the route to all of that, when handled with the proper care and precautions.

Yes, young people must be taught all about guns, their workings and their uses and misuses, because it is virtually inevitable that one day, every young person will decide to pick up a gun and use it, and it is best that they be instructed in how to do that at the least risk to themselves and others, so that they may enjoy a life full of good guns as most of us aspire to, eventually founding a family born out of guns, and living a long and happy life surrounded by the people with whom they have shared guns and whom guns have given them.

Guns and sex, the foundational elements of human life.

[PavePusher]

16. Your history timeline is quite faulty.

But you knew that.

[DanTex]

19. LOL. Of all the idiotic gunner analogies I've heard...

[SteveM]

65. You may wish to include Thoreau in your realm of "idiocy." nt

[AtheistCrusader]

28. I'd add culinary skills to that pile.

Laundry too. Each an artform.

[Remmah2]

46. Actually carbon and oxygen are the essential elements of life.

Nitrogen probably too.

Where on the periodic table can I find Glock?

[Common Sense Party]

63. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:
:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:

[mwrguy]

2. Take the game away.

You're the parent.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. 7 years old?

Who's running the show there, anyway?

You, or the kid?

Yank the plug and tell him to go outside and play.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. Gotta agree here... get him outside. Camping, bonfires, etc...

When I was young I would hike at my grandparents.
At home (in the city) time was spent on the playground or in the streets playing games with friends.
Didn't have bikes or anything like that cause they always got stolen... lol.

[gejohnston]

13. cool thing about small town and the sticks

I rode my bike everywhere.

[jmg257]

23. Yep, and plenty of places to have good fun with a BB gun or 2.

Putting holes in cans and cracking the occasional bottle was always a blast - still is!

[mikeb302000]

74. 7-year-olds who go camping and do all that good shit

in the out-of-doors, also play on the computer. Did you not know that?

[gejohnston]

12. you might find this odd

but I agree with you on something in the gungeon. We probably agree on everything else in DU.

[SteveM]

66. Well, I'm globsmacked. I agree with you. nt

[Maine_Nurse]

4. While I completely disagree with your stance...

I support your right to it and your right to be a parent. I would caution you about total prohibition, as you mentioned it often piques curiosity and makes the banned item seem worthy of exploration.

I'm not sure where you live, but that should play a part in your decision-making also. Here in Maine, it is not uncommon for kids to shoot and hunt with the family. Most homes in the northern part where I live have multiple firearms. Even if you don't like guns, in such a situation, real education in firearms safety is essential since your child might come into contact with them at any time. If you are in an area with little chance of unsupervised encounters with guns, perhaps something as simple as "if you see one, get an adult" might suffice, although I'd still rather have a child understand what they can do and how easily they can do it.

Good luck to you

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. Yes, abstinence is always the best way to educate young minds

:sarcasm:

[iverglas]

8. be sure never to tell your kids not to play in traffic

It's important to teach them how to do it safely!!!

Teaching kids to abstain from playing in traffic is a fool's game.

Oh, and never tell them not to touch a hot stove. Or tease the dog. Or jump off bridges. They'll just do it anyway, so it's important to teach them how to do it safely.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

18. Ummm... I yes will teach my kids how to cross the street

use the stove/microwave, treat/handle domestic animals, ... , and do all manner of activities safely.
Thse lessons will be sure to include tidbits like not loitering in the road or teasing dogs, don't worry!

[iverglas]

20. hmm; you missed something

I was looking forward to the segment on safe bridge-jumping-off-of.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. don't they call it bungee jumping these days?

:shrug: :D :* :hi: ;)

Bungee jumping ( /ˈbʌndʒiː/; also spelled "Bungy" jumping)<1><2> is an activity that involves jumping from a tall structure while connected to a large elastic cord. The tall structure is usually a fixed object, such as a building, bridge or crane; but it is also possible to jump from a movable object, such as a hot-air-balloon or helicopter, that has the ability to hover above the ground. The thrill comes as much from the free-falling as from the rebounds.<3>

When the person jumps, the cord stretches and the jumper flies upwards again as the cord snaps back (not actually snapping though), and continues to oscillate up and down until all the energy is dissipated.

more at link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie_jumping

[iverglas]

22. I once had a budgie named Bungee

The then co-vivant was from Texas. Plano, to be precise. Although born and partially reared in California. And some people think I don't know the USofA ...

Anyhow, one day I looked out the window and saw a budgie on a telephone wire in the back yard. I went and got the stepladder and climbed it and stroked the budgie briefly and grabbed it and brought it back in the house and held it out to him and said "Look what I found! A budgie!"

Well the co-vivant was a little puzzled, because what he saw and heard was me holding out a parakeet and calling it Bungee, and he couldn't figure out how I knew its name. So that was her name. She spent the next year persecuting me for trying to take "her" man, alternately shredding the books on my shelves and hanging on my bulletin board pulling my collection of political buttons out one by one and throwing them on the floor.

I've never bungee jumped; I would probably like it, like I'd probably like parachuting, because I love free-fall. The Pirate Ship is my favourite amusement park ride because, especially if you sit in the very prow or stern, you hang mid-air so perfectly at the top of the arc. Well, except if the grandmother next to you is doing the wave your arms in the air trick and smacks you in the face. And the southwestern USAian with the concealed carry permit sitting next to you is trying to stay frozen to his seat in terror, even after hitting the biggest roller coaster on site in the first five minutes at the park. And, of course, getting beat at target shooting.


typo ...

[AtheistCrusader]

27. They have indoor skydiving these days.

It's a hoot, if you can't bring yourself to jump out of a perfectly good aircraft.

I know I'm not a fan of the real thing, but indoors is fine.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. There's two bridges in my town where we do that on hot summer days.

Absolutes are fun, no?

[iverglas]

30. actually

Laying the bait is more fun. ;)

[AtheistCrusader]

25. We play football in the street.

Street hockey as well.

Yes, there is a safe way to do it, and yes, an accident CAN happen. Such is life.

[iverglas]

31. "in the street"

not equals "in traffic"

[AtheistCrusader]

35. We don't close off the street, so yes, it is 'in traffic'.

As always, tonnage has right of way.

[NewMoonTherian]

44. I think I got ya beat on that one.

We sled. There's a nice hill that, when it gets really icy, provides a fast, epically long ride that's perfect for racing. In the very rare event that someone tries to drive up the hill in those conditions(a fool's errand), we have to flip the sleds and tumble down the snow banks on the sides.

[iscooterliberally]

9. I grew up with guns as a kid.

I don't think you should shield your child from this. You should teach him from your point of view. If he doesn't play these games with you, he is going to play them with his friends. You should also teach him what to do if he ever comes across a real gun. It's not that you want to encourage him, but this stuff is out there and he does need to know what to do when he comes across it. I wish you and your son well.

[gejohnston]

10. progression?

Maybe because we did not have video games but BB guns were about marksmanship, there was no thought of killing humans with any of them. Same with real guns since I was about eight. With toy guns, yeah we played army etc. but never anything that actually fires a projectile. It has long been conventional wisdom has always been that kids have substitued sticks and fingers for the toy. It may be built in humans. Maybe not.
The concept of killing other humans with a real gun never occured to me until boot camp, and that was kind of the point.
How is shooting at paper targets sick? Animals (other than for food, OK I'll give you that.) Do you feel the same about archery? If not, why not? Same thing only different technology. That is not to say I disagree with the larger issue of shooter games, especially for seven year olds. Personally, I don't like video games at all. They wreck the kid's phycial health and stunts their imagination and creativity IMHO. Like teens blocking out the real world with music players.
Jerry Brown used to have a chat show (called We the People) on Pacifica. Once he interviewed Lt Col Dave Grossman about this book he wrote.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1
Basically, the Col said that these games were developed to wear down the taboo against killing our own species. The process of developing them since WW2 (the theory was that the reason everyone fired so many rounds hitting nothing was intentional. It was common in all armies on both sides.) These games are illegal in some European countries (including some with thriving gun cultures like Switzerland and Germany.) Could that be part of the low Swiss violent crime rate?
Who bought him the game? Guessing not you. Kids need to go outside and play, use their imaginations etc. You are the parent, introduce him to the real world and all it have to offers.

Add one thing: You can always take a cue from Sarah Brady, but I don't picture you as doing that.
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=96;t=000378;p=0
Oh yeah, buying for your own kid is not a straw purchase, some news accounts got that wrong.

[Union Scribe]

11. Poor kid.

On so many levels.

[jmg257]

14. Sometimes "No" is the best answer.

With your strange obsessions and opinions concerning all things gun, there is little to be gained by letting him play. Explain to him your take on how and why you think that stuff is so sick (though I would tend to leave out the target shooting and BB guns...he might have a hard time understanding the silliness there).

When he is old enough to find his own info and form his own decisions, his common sense and rational views of things may likely be different then yours. Until then though, what you say goes.

I wouldn't worry about all video games, just the ones that upset you. Shield him from them, and all gun-related activities...otherwise his playing and any fascination and/or appreciation that will develop will just drive you batty, and that won't be good for either of you.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[AtheistCrusader]

24. Why don't you go post in Outdoor Life how 'sick' hunting is?

Go for it.

[iverglas]

33. how about if a vegetarian does that?

I mean, I don't know why they'd bother, but don't they get to have an opinion?

[AtheistCrusader]

34. Not when

"Playing cops and robbers, or whatever kids play these days, is sick. Shooting at paper targets or animals is sick."

calling the activities of other DU members 'sick' is at play. One can express disapproval without a broad brush attack.

[iverglas]

37. oh, gimme a break

If I haven't called the porn lovers in GD "sick", I've called 'em worse.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. It is what it is.

[PavePusher]

40. Keep shaking that finger of rage and shame.

There are so many people out there having fun you don't approve of, be careful not to dislocate that poor appendage.

[iverglas]

42. they should all try going on roller coasters

and having kittens. Actually, I don't recommend having kittens. I have three on my shoulders right now fighting. Two stunningly beautiful long-haired feral kittens became teenagers and one escaped for half an hour in a thunderstorm before her trip to the spay-neuter clinic ... we got two that resemble her that found a lovely home with a hippy dippy sort of woman with two Yorkies who is going to feed them organic catfood, and three of the ordinariest kittens you've ever seen, which are now three months old with no homes in sight.

But the fun still kind of outweighs the guilt at adding to the cat population, and even the mountains of poop to scoop. Now, kittens on a roller coaster, that I wouldn't recommend.

So many ways to have fun without being an asshole, aren't there?

[friendly_iconoclast]

83. Domestic cats are quite efficient hunters, and can raise havoc with bird populations.

Yep, even the spayed/neutered ones. I hope Professor McGonigle is going to keep them indoors. I've always done so with mine, right
down to the current heads of household, the Duchess of Hubbardston and La Princesa Negrita. They also won't get lost, stolen, run over or pick up fleas and ticks...

[friendly_iconoclast]

84. ...And let's not forget that cats are obligate carnivores. *Something* must die to feed them.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

86. Mine are definately skilled predators...

Bare toes in my house are quickly attacked...as are bare ankles, pieces of fuzz, etc...

[jmg257]

41. I think I read somewhere that the OP is a vegetarian, so his opinion figures. nt

[SteveM]

67. They won't because I'll be lurking in there! nt

[mikeb302000]

75. you don't get much sicker than hunting nt

[gejohnston]

76. are you a vegetarian?

If not, how is it sicker to kill your own food vs the chemical loaded cow that someone else killed and wrapped in cellophane for you?

[DissedByBush]

29. The same way Christian fundies teach sex ed?

And likely just as useless, if not downright damaging, to the child.

Penn and Teller did an example on your idea that a video game makes for a kid who loves to shoot real guns. They found a kid who was an absolute killer on shoot-em-ups, and his mom agreed to let him take a shot with an AR-15 (a relatively low-powered, low-recoil rifle that my eight year old girl could easily shoot).

It scared the hell out of the kid.

Meanwhile, my oldest girl who was raised shooting real guns at paper targets (and does very well indeed) does not like shooting even virtual people in a video game. Plants vs. Zombies is about as violent a game she plays.

[iverglas]

32. didn't read the thread, didya?

And there you were thinking you were original.

I commend post 7 to you.

[DissedByBush]

68. I was supposed to make sense of that idiotic post? n/t

[Remmah2]

47. My daughter's been shooting trap since she was 12.

Rifle team captain as well. (Second year).

No interest what so ever in video games.

Video games are a substitute for a responsible parent.

[gejohnston]

36. so what if you do your best to demonize

all things shooting, and he joins the Olympic pistol, skeet, or biathlon team? Or even World Cup?

[saras]

39. A real BB gun, wound an animal, have to take care of it until it dies. REAL BEFORE VIDEO

[ileus]

43. I think my 7yo son harvested his first deer before he really got into video games.

He took his first deer last year 7 days after turning 6. He didn't really get into video gaming until this winter/spring. Of course during the summer our kids aren't allowed to game much except right before bedtime at night. Hopefully I can get him on another deer here in a few weeks. We missed last Saturday (doe day muzzleloader) because we were geocaching instead.

My wife will just be getting back home from a Healthcare conference Friday night so we'll miss Saturday again to do something with the whole family.

[jmg257]

62. My kids like animals, so I had each of them stalk and kill their own bear.

A little gamey, but they make great rugs!

[ileus]

71. My son wants to go bear hunting, but I don't any use for one...

I suppose it would make a good rug

[Remmah2]

45. You may want to post this in the parenting forum.

This thread has nothing to do with the orphan civil right known as the Second Amendment.

What you do as a parent is your business, how your kid grows up is your responsibility. It starts and stops at your front door.

Go spend some time with your child.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

48. If you plan to teach your child anything...

it helps if you have a clue what you're talking about.

In your case, I would recommend you contact the local NRA chapter and find out when they're next running an Eddie Eagle Gunsafe course. No sarcasm intended - I'm quite sincere. The NRA teaches kids a pretty simple set of rules.

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

[AtheistCrusader]

51. The NRA doesn't operate in Italy.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

53. Oh yeah - i forgot.

Oh well - maybe if he can sneak back into the US sometime his kid can learn.

[gejohnston]

54. The UITS perhaps?

Italian Union of Shooting
http://www.uits.it

The ironic thing would be if they have a program closer to the Billy Hook program, created by the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council but operated by the police, than Eddy Eagle since it actually endorses kids using guns.


http://www.tsnsantarcangelo.it/

[ileus]

56. I also recommend starting him with a nice youth sized 22LR.

[jeepnstein]

49. You could try talking to him.

My kids know I carry a gun. They know there is a real possibility that I may get hurt or have to hurt someone in the line of duty. When other kids ask if I ever got to shoot someone on duty my kids will correct them with "That's not why he does it."

I have taught my kids that guns are exceedingly dangerous and should be handled accordingly. They are forbidden to go anywhere near my gun safe. When we do go shooting it's always under my direct supervision and they are quite well-versed in the Four Rules. Shooting is no joke. It is fun and they are both quite good at it. Good enough to know that whatever they are shooting at is going to get shot.

We also don't have video games that glorify shooting and thug culture. That's a biggie in my house. We also don't watch police shows on the TV. When they ask why I simply tell them that I don't really want that kind of violence coming into my home and family. They respect my decision.

We have plenty of video games and I'll admit we play some of them far too much but there are plenty of titles out there that don't include murder and mayhem. Sonic Free Riders for XBox 360 is still kicking my butt, much to their amusement. I've had their friends bring over violent games and they refuse to have any part of it. Not because Dad will get after them so much as they know it's just not acceptable. We're still regarded as the fun place to be on the weekend.

I will say that we have Nerf toy guns. They are a lot of fun but neither of my sons have much of an appetite for playing with them for hours. A simple game of "clear the stair well" or "shoot the Angry Birds in flight" is about as much enthusiasm as they can muster. I'm fine with that.

The key is to let your children know your rules aren't just some kind of arbitrary line that is begging them to cross. Guns and shooting are not forbidden fruit in my house and therefore is not as tempting. I'll go with them any time they want to go and we'll have fun. I prefer they learn their values from me, their father, rather than some form of mass media.

[Atypical Liberal]

50. An exercise in futility.

Violence is part of the human condition, and boys have pretended to be heroic figures of violence since the beginning of time. Whether they were pretending to be a Roman Gladiator, or pretending to be a knight errant, or pretending to be a cowboy, or pretending to be a soldier storming the beaches of Normandy, little boys have fantasized about being a heroic figure of violence. Their toys may have been pretend swords, pretend bows and arrows, or pretend guns, but the distinction is irrelevant.

While it used to be you had to simulate these activities in your mind with props of varying sophistication, nowadays kids can simulate them on computers.

There has been lots of debate as to the effect of violent video games on kids. Personally, I am a big believer in the effectiveness of simulation. Simulations have already proven to be highly effective training tools precisely because they can effectively mimic real environments so well that they really do train the participant.

We also know that people can and do become desensitized to stimulation.

As video games become more and more photo-realistic, it is easily conceivable, even by today's standards, to envision games that very accurately simulate violence, with highly accurate portrayals of human body trauma. It won't be long until video games such as Call of Duty are every bit as realistic as the movie "Saving Private Ryan", and it's already unmistakeably easy to see in those games how they attempted to duplicate some of the scenery from the movie.

If you haven't seen "Saving Private Ryan", it is extremely graphic in its portrayal of war. It includes violent and realistic depictions of dismemberment, disembowelment, people being burned alive, and shot.

If you feel it is inappropriate for kids under a certain age to see such things, and I believe it is, then it will soon be, if it is not already (and I believe it is), in appropriate for kids to see such things in video games.

The sad news is that these games are now ubiquitous. Many adults (including myself) play these games, and so kids will see them (and mine have seen me playing Call of Duty). And kids themselves will play them. If not at home at your house, they will play them at some kid's house down the street where either Mommy and Daddy don't care or just aren't at home.

[spin]

52. Why is shooting at paper targets "sick" ...

I actually believe that the best way to teach a young person gun safety and to introduce him/her to the sport of shooting is to take them to the range where they shoot at paper targets. My daughter was very interested in shooting as she often accompanied my wife and I when we went to the pistol range. When she was nine years old, I allowed her to shoot a .22 caliber single shot rifle with close supervision. As she got a little older, I bought a small .22 caliber revolver for her as her hands were too small to hold a larger revolver. As she got older she had no problems shooting much larger handguns and far more powerful calibers up to and including .44 magnum.

Probably with your negative attitude toward firearms you will make them far more tempting and interesting to your boy. Since 12% of Italians own firearms and there are 7 million of these weapons in your nation, this might be a problem.
(ref: Gun politics in Italyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Italy)

My advise would be to find a way to introduce him to shooting as then he will not be as fascinated with it. See if you can find some air gun competition in your area.

[ileus]

55. because you're pretending to kill people, or practicing to kill people or something silly like that.

[spin]

57. Not if you are shooting at bullseye targets like this ...

[ileus]

58. Nope sorry...it's all practice for the gun to kill people.

[spin]

60. Boy, I just wasted a good portion of my life ...

attempting to raise my score at target shooting.

[jmg257]

59. Sometimes a kid trying to shoot a can with a BB gun

is nothing more then a kid trying to shoot a can with a BB gun.

Doesn't seem very rational to think that doing so is sick....or even childish.

(It is lots of fun for those involved though!)

[spin]

61. That sums it up nicely. (n/t)

[mikeb302000]

73. shooting at paper targets is sick because it's simulated

killing. It's pretend killing. Some of the targets are shaped like men, for christ's sake.

[gejohnston]

77. the ones cops and military use

I doubt any of the targets at any US or Italian gun club are. How do you feel about archery?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

79. I shoot at silhouette targets all the time

Yes, many targets in the US are shaped that way. After all - bad guys aren't round with concentric circles...

[Glassunion]

82. I beg to differ...

Every violent criminal in my town wears one of these.



So I only practice with 25yard slow fire targets.

[Starboard Tack]

78. I think you are a tad over the top there Mike

"shooting at paper targets is sick". If that is sick, then most of our genetic makeup is sick. Target shooting is no different IMO to darts, archery, bocce, bowling, horseshoes, shuffleboard and many other sports and pastimes. These are all healthy outlets for our primal instincts as hunters and warriors. The problems arise when we start acting out by take these activities from a safe environment into the public arena. Shooting at a range or out in the desert or hunting for food is not enough for some. Now we have guys who routinely strap on a gun whenever they leave home. This is problematic for society, because these guys have decided to walk a very fine line. I think they allow their primal instincts to ride very close to the surface in much the same way as cops, robbers and rapists do. Two sides of the same coin, and coins can be flipped pretty easily.

[jmg257]

81. And sometimes shooting at paper is just shooting at paper. Maybe

it is how an individual perceives certain things that is sick?

There are those who carry an obsession, a sickness with them...like they may see everything as simulated killing, when it realy isn't.

[BiggJawn]

87. ((((facepalm))))

Just no reasoning with somebody who's convinced of his righteousness.

Yeah, big, round men, with the number "10" on their bellies...

[SteveM]

64. "Pity the boy who has never fired a gun"...

Well over a third of Americans guns, and being knowledgeable in the safe use and storage of firearms cannot hurt, and may be of considerable benefit. I'm not a fan of video games, so I can't speak to them much. If he uses BB guns, he should also be taught safety and proper use, just at with "real" guns. Airsoft and other "toys?" Any use of these should be at least accompanied by instruction in the difference between real and non-lethal guns, as well as what war, self-defense, hunting, etc. is about, and the dangers in confusing reality and artifical fears.

It strikes me as unwise that the father should hope "...he'll outgrow these childish interests" without trying to get ahead of the game with proper instruction. Incidentally, I am surprised at this statement: "Playing cops and robbers, or whatever kids play these days, is sick. Shooting at paper targets or animals is sick."

"These days?" He acts as if this is a new phenomenon. Paper targets "is sick?" Animals "is sick?" Is the kid shooting at real animals or artifices? Perhaps the father is confused as to reality and artificial fears.

"We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected." Thoreau.

[Francis Marion]

69. Keep him away from the kitchen!!!

There's knives in there... sick knives, the kind that can cut people. You let him cut his food with a knife, and before you know it, he'll be standing on a street corner with other hooligans, snapping his fingers and flicking a switchblade.

Scissors are sick too, especially when cutting paper.

Three hole paper punching: sick, it's basically pseudo-shooting volley fire; keep him away from that. Staplers, too- after he's inured to stapling helpless paper, he'll try it out on the dog.

What you need to do is to examine every household object and extend its use to the most absurd lengths of misuse, and then expect your son to do those things.

Ideally, he'll live in a sterile surgical suite devoid of objects. The floor will need radiant heating because beds are harmful.

***

C'mon. The young man must develop his own values and conclusions if they are to stick. I don't like gun killing video games either, but short of bans and censorship, they're a part of popular culture, albeit a waste of time IMO.

Trust him to take the best he knows from what you teach him, and from what he concludes from experience. Yes he needs guidance, but give him some space of his own to experience things you may not like, and then discuss what he learned by it. He might agree with you. He'd be better off shooting paper targets than playing a game, in my opinion; shooting is a sport, an athletic activity, as rewarding, instructive, and character-building as any other.

If he was able to shoot, he'd develop mental and physical discipline, respect, trust, pride, and confidence from doing something well. Shooting isn't a profitable activity for irresponsible people, but reinforces positive outcomes for decent people, of which your family surely belongs to the latter group.

Make a deal with him- dump the people-shooting video games, and instead get a 22 and learn how to shoot it. There are many groups who teach safe and correct use of firearms.

[Remmah2]

70. Worse.

Next he'll want a concealed pocket knife.

[jeepnstein]

72. I nearly took off a finger tip with my first pocket knife.

I didn't get it back until right before my Dad died, some thirty years later. He never let me live that one down.

[montanto]

80. So, how does a gun control advocate teach his kid about guns?

?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

85. Some excellent suggestions were given

Its up to the OP to decide what he will do.