Girl, 3, flown to Anchorage after suffering gunshot wound in chest.

[Arctic Dave]

FAIRBANKS -- Fairbanks police said a 3-year-old girl was shot in the chest, reportedly by her 5-year-old brother.


Officer Alana Malloy told the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner that the girl was in stable condition Friday evening and had been flown to Anchorage for treatment. The weapon reportedly was a .357 revolver.

Malloy said the girl's parents drove her to a Fairbanks hospital, where police were called Friday afternoon. She said the gun belonged to the parents. It was not immediately clear why the boy had access to it.

News 13-Fairbanks reported the shooting took place at a Fairbanks apartment building.



Read more: http://www.adn.com/2011/09/02/2046738/girl-3-flown-to-anchorage-after.html#ixzz1WtjqOZK9

[RSillsbee]

1. And your point is? NT

[Arctic Dave]

2. This is a gun forum right? nt

[RSillsbee]

4. Why, yes, yes it is

Discussion of gun-related public policy issues or the use of firearms for self-defense belong in the Guns Forum.

Is there some gun-related public policy issue you'd like to discuss in relation to your anecdotal, current events, drive by post? Perhaps you could relate your anecdotal, current events, drive by post to the use of firearms for self-defense

[Arctic Dave]

7. OK. Policy: All guns should unloaded and locked in a safe

so kids don't shoot each other with them.

What's a matter, angry you talisman aren't all they are cracked up to be?

[GreenStormCloud]

10. Poor people can't afford safes.

Many poor people can barely afford a used Jimenez Arms .380 or Hi-Point .45 for their home defense gun.

[Arctic Dave]

11. Good idea, gun manufacturers must provide a safe with purchase.

[rrneck]

19. Nice to know you're willing to pay for it. nt

[Arctic Dave]

47. I have paid for it. Allmy firearms are kept in lock boxes.

[rrneck]

53. A facile dodge.

How about paying for legislation and enforcement of the laws you propose? Are you willing to pay for that? How about the cost of determining if the box was used in the event of a theft or accident? Are you willing to pay for that? How about the cost of medical care for over worked police officers who are tasked to enforce stupid laws that do nothing more than make the rich people feel good. How much are you going to pony up for that?

[PavePusher]

55. "lock box" =/= "safe"

So, double on the dodge.

[SteveM]

36. Another poor idea. This would be a substantial cost leveed onto...

a firearms purchaser, and could (and probably would) be seen as a Second Amendment restriction by subterfuge.

[Arctic Dave]

46. A lock box cost about 40-50 bucks.

Two boxes of good ammo cost more then that.

[SteveM]

50. I have one. You want a requirement for safes. That's different.

Keep in mind that legislation a cost affecting a Constitutional amendment is going to get a severe review by any court.

[Atypical Liberal]

52. Most, if not all, already do.

Most, if not all, firearms shipped today come with a free lock. Many local sheriff departments will provide them for free to those who ask.

You can buy a safe for about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of a new quality firearm.

There really is no excuse for not securing your firearm when you have children around.

[DrDan]

13. poor people can afford to unload

[spin]

23. You can buy an adequate gun box for less than $40 ...

from Amazon.com.

Stack-On PDS-500 Drawer Safe with Electronic Lock

http://www.amazon.com/Stack--PDS-500-Drawer-Safe-Electronic/dp/B002KEIU4W/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1315064908&sr=8-9

This box will not prevent theft but it will stop a young child from accessing your firearm.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. Thanks. I was thinking of the larger, more expensive safes. N/T

[spin]

31. I have a much larger safe and a medium sized safe ...

But I store my dedicated home defense handguns in two smaller gun boxes, one in my bedroom and one in my living room. If I leave the house unoccupied, I move the weapon I am not carrying to the larger safe.

There are times, like now, when young children are in the house. The gun boxes keep little fingers away from the firearms stored inside.

[SteveM]

37. This is a good idea. nt

[jpak]

24. Gun locks are fucking cheap - but according to the NRA, life is cheaper

yup

[GreenStormCloud]

27. Please wait, Mr. Home Invader, while I find the key and unlock my gun. N/T

[PavePusher]

56. And they are easily defeated and can cause an unintended discharge.

But I doubt you care about anything that contradicts your moral rightousness... or is that "fatuousness"...?

[rl6214]

64. Show us where you are getting this info from

But we all know you can't.

[RSillsbee]

33. I agree with you

If a firearm is not in use it should be securely stored but I don't believe that this should be mandated by law because it would be A.)unenforceable or B.) open to too much abuse.


Having said that , I consider the firearm I use for self or home defense to be "in use" at all time and it is never unloaded or locked up.

[SteveM]

35. Poor idea you've got...

First, an unloaded gun is not useful for self-defense; and second, a locked and unloaded gun is even worse: one cannot even throw it, a la T.V. Westerns.

If there are kids around in the house and you are not, then it is wise to lock up your firearm(s).

As far as "policy" is concerned, your idea is unworkable and unenforceable, and negates the efforts of parents who have already taught their kids how to use a firearm safely, and how to store it. In some households, firearms are accessible to ALL trained members -- including kids.

So, how is this "policy" to be enforced?

[Arctic Dave]

44. If a child is shot by your firearm, you go to jail.

I would think that would encourage more people to safely store theiir firearms, which this person obviously did not.

[SteveM]

51. No, I won't. What encourages me to safely store firearms is accounting for such dangers.

And taking action: Long guns in metal safe, ammo stored separately in lock box, personal revolver (loaded) in lock box when away from the home, open and ready when at home. No children in the house.

[Euromutt]

68. Just what we need, *more* people incarcerated

I mean, speaking as a parent myself, if the prospect of losing one of your children doesn't encourage you to secure your firearms, why should an additional prison sentence?

And why do so many people in this country, liberals and progressives included, seem to think that incarceration is some kind of fucking panacea?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RC]

21. Shooting 3 year olds doesn't have anything to do with your bolded sentence?

Of course it does. Me thinks "gun-related policy" cover the OP.
Defending yourself against 3 yo with guns is not a normal issue. Another reason to post.

Sorry is it rips holes in your sunshine and rainbow view of killing machines. Reality trumps.

[slackmaster]

3. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

Those kids' parents should have been taught the importance of securing their weapons.

[RSillsbee]

5. Sometimes you just can't teach stupid.

People can have all the "training " in the world and if they choose not to follow it there's not a lot you can do.

[Arctic Dave]

8. Any gun purchase should have a gun safety training class prior to it.

[spin]

20. Actually not a bad idea ...

I've been suggesting this for years.

I've seen several people show up at the range who had NO idea if the semi-auto firearm they owned was loaded and NO idea of how to check it. These people, who just happened to be ladies, had felt they had a need to own a firearm at one time in their life. They journeyed to a gun store and bought what they felt was a cute little gun.



I'm sure the salesman showed them how to load the firearm and perhaps did it for them.

I also favor teaching gun safety in high school.

[petronius]

28. I'm a bit torn on the idea of a mandatory class

On the one hand, getting training seems like an absolute no-brainer, especially if you intend to rely on your firearm for self-defense. But on the other hand, I can see a requirement for a class being used as an unjust barrier to gun purchases (by, for example, high costs, difficult access, excessive requirements on instructors, etc). And, the number of accidents the class requirement would be intended to prevent is so small, and the solutions are so obvious, that I'm not sure mandatory classes would have any meaningful impact. (I mean, if someone just naturally doesn't realize that leaving a loaded firearm on the bottom shelf of the coffee table with kids around is a bad idea, will a class actually help this person?)

On balance, I wouldn't go out of my way to oppose a class requirement (we have the required handgun safety certificate here in CA after all, and I haven't heard that it's a barrier) but I doubt it would have any real positive effect. I'd much rather see brief, basic safety presentations in school, at various grade levels...

[spin]

32. Since there are at least 300 million firearms in our nation ...

the chances are excellent that a person who has never been around a firearm will be exposed to one at some time. A little education (such as you suggest in schools) could go a long away in preventing accidents.

I also favor teaching basic first aid in school.

Unfortunately, our school system has a hard time teaching any subject today.

I looked at the web page for the California handgun safety certificate and I feel it contained a good basic outline of gun safety and handling.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf

[Hoyt]

58. I'm for it, as long as "training" doesn't glorify guns and carrying in public. Keep it out of hands

of NRA, gun dealers, gun zealots, etc.

[slackmaster]

25. I always recommend that to people, and I have personally trained more than 100 in the basics

It's not hard to learn, if you have the maturity and and are willing to assimilate new information.

[RSillsbee]

34. And who will pay for this class?

What if I'm buying gun number 19? Do I still need a class?

[Arctic Dave]

45. 1) you 2) Yes

[cleanhippie]

62. Well, that makes no sense at all.

Why should one be required to take a the class over and over and over?

[Common Sense Party]

54. And every car purchase should require a driving safety class.

Every single one.

[cleanhippie]

61. Not a bad idea. What about those that have already had a class?

Is a class required for each purchase?

How much will the class cost?

Who will determine what the standards are?

Who will administer it?

[iverglas]

69. then gosh, that would be what a licence is for

Duh.

[SteveM]

38. An even better idea. nt

[PavePusher]

57. But, but, but...

"Two to five-year-old kids CANNOT BE EDUCATED."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/25/998385/-Indiana-Children-Dropping-like-Flies

So, I guess we can save a lot of money if we close down all the pre-schools and kindergartens and "Head Start" programs.

No need to try... it can't be done. Because apparently someone said so.

[ileus]

6. A friend of mine shot his wife in the chest with a 357...but she died.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. !

you still friends?

[ileus]

41. naw....he was shot dead 10 months later.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. For children 6 or below there are about 120 firearms injuries per year.

For a nation of about 310 million people that is a tiny number. Almost 130K suffered cuts severe enough to require medical treatment. 4,450 suffered from drowning or near drowning. 1,382,283 were injured in falls. 65,957 were burned. 7,596 were injured by walking. 57,690 dog bites. 928 were "Natural/Enviornmental" - Whatever that means.
188,951 attacks by other animals including stings.

All of those were to children 6 or under and required medical attention.

[Arctic Dave]

12. So if pools are required to be fenced should we do the same with guns?

[slackmaster]

17. Some states have safe-storage laws for gun owners

None of them require that guns be kept unloaded or locked up within the privacy of one's home, nor should they. Appropriate storage measures differ from household to household.

[SteveM]

39. Pools are not "rights" protected by the Constitution...

Restrictions on pools, operation of autos on the public thoroughfares, transportation of hazardous materials, etc., can be restricted because these are not protected by the Constitution. The courts would rightly view any "requirements" for fences, metaphorically or otherwise, as potential means to restrict the Second Amendment; states can, however, restrict the use of firearms as long as they don't violate or infringe the Second and the Fourteenth Amendments.

[Arctic Dave]

48. Second amndments OKs the shooting of children?

Seems neglience would come into play.

[SteveM]

49. No. You seem to have nothing but hyperbole.

[DrDan]

14. so 120 is an acceptable number . . . .

1 every 3 days is acceptable.

Thanks - was wondering what level would be considered insignificant here.

There might be a parent or two that would take issue. But. . . . gotta have those guns loaded and ready.

[spin]

22. Obviously we should work to reduce that number even further ...

but realistically as long as civilians can own firearms there will be firearm accidents.

Just look at all the warning labels on all the tools and appliances in your house. They are there because some fool managed to figure out how to hurt himself while using the device. Often children are injured if they play with such items.

Some feel the solution is to disarm all citizens and indeed if there were no firearms, there would be no firearm accidents. The reality is that short of inventing a magic wand and a spell that would make all firearms instantly disappear, there will always be firearms in civilian hands. If honest people were to turn all their firearms in, the criminals would keep theirs. Firearms could easily be smuggled into our nation if there was a market. Hell, we can't even stop the smuggling of tons and tons of marijuana.

Education has reduced the number of firearm accidents involving children over the years and I believe that education is the best solution. You can secure a firearm from young children by using a simple gun box from Amazon.com and you can still have access to the weapon quickly if necessary. this one costs only $39.88. I use a similar lock box.


http://www.amazon.com/Stack--PDS-500-Drawer-Safe-Electronic/dp/B002KEIU4W/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1315064908&sr=8-9

[GreenStormCloud]

30. If you were truly concerned about child safety you would direct your...

...efforts towards some of those items that are injuring massive numbers of kids. You are merely trying to use kids as an excuse to confiscate guns.

[SteveM]

40. No, but you seem to miss that childhood deaths are lessening over time.

Your attack "...was wondering what level would be considered insignificant here" is unwarranted and gratuitous. But I'm sure you are quite righteous about it anyway.

[PavePusher]

59. Who here said that? I await your quote...

Freedom and liberty entail risk. Always have, always will. When you reduce risk, you reduce freedom and liberty, even with the best of intentions.

The cure is evolution. But Mother Nature is, at best, a slow and cruel housekeeper.

[cleanhippie]

63. That is a hypocritical implication, dave.

I'm sure that YOU have taken the risk out of EVERY SINGLE THING under your control so that children that are injured by those things are less than 120 per year.


Nice schtick, you should try a comedy club.

[PavePusher]

65. Pssst.... wrong name.... n/t

[cleanhippie]

66. Ooops...

[PavePusher]

67. Several days without backing up your bullshit.

What a surprise....

[safeinOhio]

15. how many hours/day

are kids under 6 exposed to kitchen tools, ie knifes, swimming pools, fires and animals? Apples and oranges.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. When I was growing up Dad's rifle was always hanging on the wall.

My shotgun (age 11 when I got it) hung just under it. I was "exposed" to guns every minute that I was at home.

[safeinOhio]

42. How much time were you left unsupervised with a loaded

handgun when you were 6 years old?

A more accurate comparison to deaths of those six or less would be how many deaths of six year olds were there from them driving drunk. Many are left in a house with booze and car keys, yet unlike loaded handguns, no deaths. The post was about statistics for deaths of children 6 or under.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. The numbers that I looked up were for INJURIES, not death.

The death rate is much lower.

Dad never owned a handgun. Back in the late 1940s very few country people had handguns, but just about all had rifles and shotguns. But I was left unsupervised with access to his rifle if I had tried to get it. I knew about guns so it wasn't an item of fascination for me.

[PavePusher]

60. So, kids can be taught to avoid/be careful with objects that entail risk?

Who knew...

Obviously a strong argument for education, n'est pas?