Colorado Boy who Killed Parents Gets Seven Years

[mikeb302000]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18768663">The Denver Post reports

He was a 12-year-old boy accused of inexplicably killing his parents and injuring his siblings — a nearly unprecedented crime so disturbing that no one had an easy answer for what should happen to him. In the end, it was a psychological evaluation indicating that the boy's maturity level was unusually low that led 13th Judicial District Attorney Bob Watson to offer a deal. Under a plea agreement announced Friday, the Burlington boy will remain in juvenile detention for seven years — the maximum sentence possible.

Where did a 12-year-old kid get a gun? You can accuse me of blaming the parents, fine because that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm blaming the parents and the uncle and the entire Colorado gun culture. They're the ones making access to guns so simple and continually preaching the utility of them. Then when a mentally challenged kid does something wrong, only he's to blame. That's not right.

Also wrong is the idea that this is an "unprecedented crime so disturbing that no one had an easy answer for what should happen to him." Sure if you say "killing both parents with a gun and wounding both siblings with a knife" is really rare, I guess you've got a point. But young kids getting the gun and shooting the parents with it is almost as common as all the other gun abuse we read about. And you know where it happens, in gun friendly states. There's another coincidence for you.

Last January http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/01/missouri-12-year-old-kills-parents.html">a Missouri 12-year-old killed his parents. Of course the law and order types wanted to try him as an adult. I don't know if they succeeded.

Who can forget http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/09/10-year-old-shoots-and-kills-his-father.html">the New Mexico 10-year-old who shot and killed his father. That was a big story. The kid had been abused and at the tender age of ten knew how to handle it. Where do you think he learned that?

Perhaps the best of all was http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2008/12/8-year-old-incompetent-says-expert.html">the Arizona 8-year-old, yes 8 years old he was, and initially charged with 1st degree murder.

Besides these there are countless cases which didn't end so dramatically, ones which don't make the national news. The problem is not kids gone wild, the problem is gun owners not securing their property and teaching their kids the wrong lessons about guns.

That's my opinion. What's yours? Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[LAGC]

1. Why does it matter what weapon a troubled kid happened to use to kill his parents?

If guns weren't available, what's stopping him from slitting their throats with a knife while they slept, or burning the house down, or poisoning them?

Shouldn't we be focused on what CAUSED the kid to resort to such an act of desperation, not the particular tool he happened to use to carry it out?

Kids don't kill their parents for no reason. Usually it means there was a lot of abuse going on.

Regardless, these incidents would still happen even if we somehow magically made all the guns disappear.

[DrDan]

5. but the fact of the matter is that he used a gun

[LAGC]

12. So if we somehow got rid of guns and he had burned his house down killing everyone inside instead...

You'd be calling for banning gasoline?

:crazy:

[DrDan]

15. fact is - he used a gun

You can rationalize it all you like and in any way you like, but he used a gun.

[LAGC]

17. So what?

It would be stupid to ban gasoline just because someone happens to abuse it.

Likewise, its stupid to ban guns just because someone happens to abuse one.

The particular tool people use to hurt other people is irrelevant. If people are intent on murder, they will find a way.

We should focus on WHY people commit acts of violence so we can prevent them in the future, not fret endlessly over the irrelevant details.

[DrDan]

23. well - we both know that gasoline has other purposes

guns - not so much. But you know that.

"tool"? - you consider a gun a "tool"?

and the fact of the matter is that a gun was used - regardless of how you wish to spin it.

[LAGC]

25. 99.99% of all bullets fired from guns are done so in a law-abiding manner.

Every year millions and millions of bullets are fired down-range in target shooting, hunting, self-defense, etc.

Only a very few thousand are fired for illegal purposes.

Seems to me that guns have plenty of "other purposes", despite the extreme minority that abuse them.

[DrDan]

27. one purpose - to injure/kill

target shooting is just practice for that single purpose

[LAGC]

30. That's funny.

I've blown up a lot of shit in my day: jugs of water, watermelons, bowling pins -- yet I've never felt the urge to injure/kill anyone. Not even an animal.

What am I supposed to be training for again? (And here I just thought it was fun to see shit blow up...)

[cleanhippie]

31. And because you are unable or unwilling to understand that others see it differently...

its a good thing you are not making these decisions for all of us.

[rrneck]

33. injure/kill who? nt

[spin]

36. Just as archery is practice to kill a person with a bow and arrow ...

or fencing is practice to kill a person with a sword or knife.

[SteveM]

48. So professional/Olympian target shooters are getting ready for the rupture?

[DrDan]

49. and the purpose of shooting at a target is????

Perfecting one's aim, I believe.

[SteveM]

55. Sure is. Targets are like that, you know? How many times can you be wrong? nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

68. another purpose -- to feed my family

unless you would like to accept that chore . . .

[DrDan]

73. I have no problem with that - but it is consistent with my statement

you use the gun as intended.

[spin]

26. Guns are used for a lot of purposes. For example, self defense ...

My daughter used one to stop an intruder breaking into our Tampa home. No shots were fired. She merely pointed the large caliber revolver at the intruder and he ran.

In this case the big .45 acp S&W revolver, a model 25-2, which was originally designed for target shooting proved to be one hell of an effective tool for self defense.

[DrDan]

28. and the intruder ran fearing what? that single purpose

target shooting is just practice for that single purpose

[spin]

35. The specific purpose the S&W Model 25-2 was designed for was ...

NRA Bullseye matches. It was a superbly accurate revolver and was widely used in competition until replaced by highly accurate .45 automatic target pistols such as the Colt Gold Cup.

Is archery practice for shooting a person with a bow and arrow?

My daughter not only knew how to shoot a handgun, but she had taken archery lessons. Had she walked into the kitchen, confronted the intruder who was halfway through the door and aimed her bow at him, he probably would have also ran.

[DrDan]

41. and the purpose of target practice is to perfect one's aim for the true purpose of guns

we both know that

[spin]

43. The purpose of NRA 2700 Bullseye target shooting with a pistol is to shoot a high score ...

at 25 and 50 yards.

Being able to hit a small target at such a range can provide a foundation for defensive shooting but even during the "rapid fire" portion of the course, a shooter is given twenty seconds to fire five rounds.

Bullseye (shooting competition)

***snip***

Courses of fire

All courses of fire are fired from a standing position using a one handed grip at 5.5-inch and 8-inch "bullseye" targets placed at 25 and 50 yards downrange. This is a significantly more difficult shooting position than the two handed grips accepted for use in metallic silhouette and action shooting competitions such as IDPA, IPSC, The Bianchi Cup, and PPC 1500 Matches. The "bullseye" targets are significantly smaller and farther away although time restraints are relatively more generous and shooting begins with an outstretched arm already aimed at the target instead of the mandatory holster draw required in most cases with the action shooting sports.emphasis added

Three courses of fire are followed: Slow Fire, in which ten rounds are fired in ten minutes, Timed Fire, consisting of two five-round strings with twenty seconds for each string, and Rapid Fire, which has a ten second limit for each of the two five-round strings. All shooting is done one-handed, standing, with no support.

Depending on the match format, the competitor may be required to shoot as many as 90 rounds from each of three handguns. Each shot scores a maximum of 10 points. Hence, a one-gun competition is often referred to as a "900" whereas a three-gun competition is a "2700". A shorter form is the National Match Course consisting of a single Slow Fire, a Timed and a Rapid Fire target, 30 shots for a maximum score of 300. Single gun competitions using only the rimfire pistol are common, as they provide an inexpensive entry into the sport.

Outdoor competitions are typically fired at 50 yards for slow fire courses and 25 yards for timed and rapid fire courses. A "short course" shoots only at 25 yards and uses a reduced-size target for the Slow Fire segment. All courses of fire at an indoor competition are typically fired at 50 feet with appropriately scaled targets. A notable exception to this rule of thumb happens at the Oak Harbor (Ohio) Conservation Club, which conducts indoor matches monthly November-April at 50/25 yards. OHCC is located about 10 miles west of the site of the National Matches, Camp Perry, Ohio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_%28shooting_competition%29

Defensive shooting would be practice at a MUCH shorter distance with a MUCH faster rate of fire. The object is not to place all your shots in a tiny group in the very center of the target but to hit the in the "kill" zone as rapidly as possible often while moving.

Perhaps several pictures will better illustrate the difference.








Of course, you probably are so consumed by your dislike of firearms that you will be unable to see the difference. May I express my sympathy.

[DrDan]

45. you may - and, as expected, take some personal shots (no pun intended)

[spin]

52. To an extent you also take some personal shots ...

when you accuse my enjoyment of target shooting as practicing to kill people.

Of course, I doubt if you even realized that when you posted above:

27. one purpose - to injure/kill ... target shooting is just practice for that single purpose

[DrDan]

56. that comment was obviously directed at guns - not at you

get real

[DrDan]

58. where did I say "kill people"?????

some may practice for hunting.

[spin]

71. Where did you specify what you meant ...

To me, your meaning was obvious.

Read your post carefully.

"27. one purpose - to injure/kill...target shooting is just practice for that single purpose"

I spent years target shooting while I was reloading ammunition with the single purpose of producing ammunition which would out preform the accuracy of factory bought ammunition. My object was make ammo which would be capable of extremely tight groups through my firearms at 25 yards. It was interesting and required a lot of experimentation with cases, powder, projectiles and primers. It had nothing to do with self defense or hunting. First, I have never hunted game and never have used any of my firearms to injure or kill an animal. Second, I was firing off a rest at 25 yards while has absolutely nothing to do with defensive shooting. Third, many of the loads I was producing were designed for target shooting and were low powered and used a lead wad cutter projectile which is not the optimum choice for a self defense load but produced a nice round hole in a paper target which is far easier to score.

I spent several years trying to develop an accurate load for a beautiful nickle plated S&W Model .45 Colt 25-5 revolver. Despite all my efforts, I could not achieve the tight groups I could with my S&W Model 25-2 .45 acp revolver or my Dan Wesson .357 Magnum. The Dan Wesson was an absolute tack driver using the .357 magnum cases with a very mild target load of Winchester 231 powder and a 148 grain hollow based wad cutter. This load is not manufactured by any company and is a duplicate of a target load used for a .38 special target pistol.


(The Model 25-5 that I owned had a 6 inch barrel)

If I was practicing to stop an attacker, I would have loaded a more powerful hollow point round. At the ranges that I would use a handgun for self defense the ability of the combination of the ammunition and the individual firearm to produce a very tight group would be totally irrelevant. While it is possible that hunting game such as deer might require a shot at 25 yards and the accuracy of the load would be important, the ammo I was making was not powerful enough to be effective on deer sized game.

Sadly along the way, I traded both the S&W Model 25-5 and the .357 Dan Wesson off. None of the firearms that I own today are as beautiful as the Model 25-2 and none are as accurate as the Dan Wesson .357 magnum.

I do own handguns for self defense and concealed carry but they are not attractive nor are they tack drivers at 25 yards. I shoot them at ranges from 7 to 45 feet and I am far more concerned about hitting the target rapidly than I am with how tight my groups are.

I only started to practice defensive shooting after I obtained my concealed carry permit. I do not practice to kill, but I practice to be accurate enough that I can hit and stop an attacker at close range without endangering other people. Often I do not use the sights on my defensive firearm at the closer ranges of under 21 feet and I fire my revolvers using the double action feature rather than cocking them as a target shooter would. Point shooting is far different than target shooting.

Point shooting

Point shooting, also called threat focused shooting, is a method of shooting a firearm that relies on a shooter's instinctive reactions, kinematics, and the use of biomechanics that can be employed effectively in life-threatening emergencies to quickly engage close targets.

This method of shooting is recognized and supported by the National Rifle Association (NRA) for use in life-threatening situations where the use of sight shooting cannot be employed due to lack of time to use the gun's sights, low-light conditions, or because of the body's natural reaction to close quarters threats which prevent meeting the marksmanship requirements of sight shooting.

***snip***

Basis for the use of aimed point shooting

Point shooting attempts to harness the innate ability to point at the target in such a way that the shooter can use that ability to hit targets with a firearm. This may be done in a variety of ways which differ depending upon the method used. The one thing that point shooting methods have in common is that they do not rely on the sights, and they strive to increase the shooter's ability to hit targets at short range under the less than ideal conditions expected in close quarters life threatening situations, self-defense, and combat situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

I really do not know why I took the time to reply to your post as obviously you have your views which you will defend and you believe in.

It's always easy to make glib comments about a subject in which you lack knowledge. If you find it entertaining then by all means enjoy the hell out of making yourself look like a fool. You will have a lot of support from others who also share both your views and your lack of experience.

[DrDan]

72. you clearly read into my posts what you wanted to read

I know folks use guns to hunt. And I have no problem with that (although I despise trophy hunters).

Why do you assume I was referring to the shooting of humans only? I never said that. I never implied that.

[spin]

75. I have never used a firearm for hunting ...

and I have explained my interest in creating accurate ammo for target shooting.

You do seem to be backing away from your original statement. Why don't you just admit that target shooting is not necessarily practice to kill or injure.

It's not that big of a deal.

After all, many archers practice shooting their bows and never plan to use them for killing or injuring.

[DrDan]

76. I agree there are those who will shoot at targets for no other purpose than to shoot at targets

Was not the intent of shooting at a target to improve one's accuracy? Is that not the reason target shooting originated?

[spin]

78. Exactly right!

And it has little or nothing to do with injuring or killing.

[SteveM]

50. You have been check-mated on this. Why do you persist? nt

[DrDan]

62. I have no idea what you are talking about - but at all means, please continue

[SteveM]

65. C'mon. There are folks who use guns for target shooting and clays. Period. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

69. fear is an excellent motivator. would you rather his daughter be in fear?

one of them was going to be afraid. the choice is yours. whom to you choose and why?

[DrDan]

74. nope - the gun worked as intended - the intruder feared what could happen and left

not at all inconsistent with my post

[Tuesday Afternoon]

80. I see what you did there.

:rofl:

[Hangingon]

29. Fact is he also used a knife

I am not rationalizing anything. I took the time to read the back up stories - always a good idea when an OP has been shown to bend a article - before I rushed to post.

"On March 1, Long's brother, Charles, 50, and Charles' wife, Marilyn, 51, were found shot to death inside their Burlington home. Their two youngest children — Ethan, 9, and Sarah, 5 — had been stabbed and assaulted with a knife. Ethan also had been shot with the .357-caliber Magnum that was used to kill his parents."

Read more: Burlington boy spared adult charges in parents' shooting deaths - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18768663#ixzz1WLZNfufu
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[iverglas]

39. and the knife victims are not dead

fuckin' duh.

Two out of three for the gun ain't bad for a kid, I guess.

[DrDan]

42. exactly - thank you! Somehow the presence of a knife offers comfort to several here.

[Hangingon]

16. He also used a knife on his siblings.

[DrDan]

24. a gun was used.

[Hangingon]

44. And a knife

[DrDan]

46. and the ones that perished did so from which weapon?

[mikeb302000]

6. you're right, let's not control the guns at all

let's continue to encourage gun owners to keep them lying around the house where curious or mentally disturbed kids can get them.

[SteveM]

51. You are showing your true colors with this pimple-burst...

"let's continue to encourage gun owners to keep them lying around the house where curious or mentally disturbed kids can get them."

It is telling that YOU seem to want to encourage that behavior. (Did you really want to use a sarcasm tag; you know, to cover your ass with lest you be accused of smear and created straw, or is that what you really want?)

I really don't know which smilie to use:

:eyes: :shrug: :rofl:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

70. this forum desperately needs a face/palm smilie

maybe this one:

[iverglas]

77. yes, because everybody, absolutely everybody,

thought the poster was making a serious suggestion.

This one will do for me: :eyes:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

79. can you see your brain when you roll your eyes to back of your head like that

and oh by the way, I was not referring to that one specific post and I was not talking to you anyway, Ms Buttinsky.

[iverglas]

38. it's just a tiny bit interesting to the intellectually honest ...

If guns weren't available, what's stopping him from slitting their throats with a knife while they slept, or burning the house down, or poisoning them?

... that the victims against whom a firearm was used are dead (edit: well, two out of three, not a bad kill rate for a kid -- did he run out of bullets?), while the ones attacked with a knife aren't. People often survive house fires too. And an intellectually challenged child generally isn't real good at poisoning people.

Gosh, I wonder whether that might tell us something ...

There is no suggestion that the child was abused ... well, not physically ...

Both sides needed additional information to determine the boy's mental state and maturity level — a task made more difficult because the Long children were home-schooled so no academic records existed, Watson said. Nor did they have any medical or psychological reports.

Who the hell knows what goes on in that situation.

Home"schooler"s whose kids have access to guns and don't go to doctors. There's a winning formula all round.

[dmallind]

2. Guns are the only problem. Like they always say - "Lizzie Borden took a SW686 with 4" barrel..."

[mikeb302000]

7. I don't say guns are the ONLY problem

but they are one of the problems that could be controlled.

[spin]

13. Yup. What we need is ax control...

Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks.
When she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one.

[PavePusher]

22. O.M.G.!!! She had a High-Capacity Axe?!?! Why are those things legal at all?! n/t

[SteveM]

53. Let's not get all logical and rational now; you're on a roll.

Don't you want prohibition? Really?

[Union Scribe]

9. Lol, well done.

Love that.

[ileus]

60. Ummmmm........686

[KT2000]

3. Agree with you

How are guns discussed in families where these incidents occurred? My guess is that guns are glorified, are used as a form of self identity and used to identify with the larger group of gun owners.
There is bravado and much bloviating from gun owners that may be teaching their children that guns infer power upon the person using it.
Children are powerless. When they believe they can have power by using a gun - sometimes they do.

The fact that these children had access to the guns indicates, at the least, the parents are not doing their job.

[mikeb302000]

8. thanks for the positive comment n/t

[SteveM]

54. Some real problems here...

"How are guns discussed in families where these incidents occurred? My guess is that guns are glorified, are used as a form of self identity and used to identify with the larger group of gun owners."

This is, of course, pure self-serving speculation on your part. (You do recall your use of the word "guess?")

"There is bravado and much bloviating from gun owners that may be teaching their children that guns infer power upon the person using it."

Again, self-serving speculation. (You do recall your use of the word "may?") You really need to see the data on guns and childhood accidents with same: Said accidents are on a sharp, long-term decline (SEE: National safety Council).

"Children are powerless" and the rest of your comments: Not really. Gun-owners very frequently train their kids in the safe and proper use of firearms. I was trained to use a handgun, shotgun and rifle by the age of 11, and had my own handgun and shotgun by the age of 13; in short, my parents did "their job."

[KT2000]

59. I would say it is

a good guess.
Sorry - but I have seen too many ignorant people who identify with the gun culture. They brag about their guns, talk big about what they will do with their guns to people they don't like, how they will fight back when Obama takes their guns etc.

Glad you were raised well but many are not. There is a lot of ignorance and resentment in this country that expresses itself in the power of guns - rhetoric and otherwise.

[SteveM]

63. I have been involved with hunting and shooting for years...

I saw one person husslin' himself on the range, and he was escorted out to the relief of everyone else. This has only happened once in my experience.

I really don't see what you see, even when hunting in Williamson County (a GOP stronghold north of Austin), Uvalde County, Coryell County, and other places in Texas. Even when informally shooting on a ranch with folks using the dreaded AK-47, there was little of that bar talk you came across.

I don't think you have made good guesses about the 80,000,000 (or more) gun-owners/users in this country. If I haven't mentioned it already, the rate of gun-related accidents in the home has gone down significantly over the last 15 years, as have gun-related hunting accidents. With respect, this does not comport with your guesses.

[DrDan]

61. giving a 13-year old child a handgun and a shotgun is not doing a parent's job imo

[mikeb302000]

81. yes, kids in gun homes are usually trained about safety

but those families often glorify the gun too. The training part does not work in many cases. The glorifying part does. Hence, you've got generation after generation of gun owners, many of whom are unfit.

[rrneck]

83. Vague generalities

to justify specific policy initiatives with heavy penalties for infractions.

Just another bigoted witch hunt.

[GreenStormCloud]

89. Even as a child I had access to Dad's rifle.

He taught me about guns, gave me a shotgun at age 11. I think that he was a pretty good parent.

[DrDan]

4. can't disagree

[Abin Sur]

10. So you're blaming *me* for these murders?

I'm blaming the parents and the uncle and the entire Colorado gun culture.

I'm personally to blame for this tragedy simply by virtue of the fact that I live in Colorado and I enjoy the use of firearms and advocate the right of others to do the same?

That's one of the sillier things I've read on the internet in some time (and that's saying something). :eyes:

[rl6214]

18. What exactly is the "Colorado gun culture"?

Is this something I can look up on the interweb or is this something that can only be found and understood in italy?

[RSillsbee]

37. The Colorado Gun Culture

is a direct off shoot (no pun intended) Of the Colorado Bears and Mountain Lions have been known to enter homes in search of food culture

[SteveM]

57. Culture: The OP's way of blaming millions for some problem...

not very liberal or progressive to attack people by the millions over the OP's notion of "culture."

[RSillsbee]

64. I'm not sure that there are 'millions" of people in Colorado

but I get your point

[SteveM]

66. Where there is one dreaded culture, there are surely more! nt

[petronius]

67. That's because you all keep shooting each other. If you'd keep your pokers

in your pants, there'd be more of you. Or is it the other way around?

[ileus]

21. of course....your fault and everyone that owns a gun. Just read some of the treads around here.

It's pretty common around here to blame everything on either the gun or gun owners on this forum.

My 9yo is sick this morning...there's more than one person around here that would tell me it's because she lives in the same house a my killing machines.

[iverglas]

40. why don't you ask the question?

My 9yo is sick this morning...there's more than one person around here that would tell me it's because she lives in the same house a my killing machines.

I understand, if you're too unbrave-hearted to say who that person / those persons are.

So just ask. Shall I do it for you?

Who around here will tell ileus that his daughter is sick today because she lives in the same house as his firearms?

Not me. I mean, I'm assuming you've ruled out the possibility that she ate some ammo ...

[mikeb302000]

82. Yes, I blame you, as silly as that seems to you

It's called http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/05/shared-responisbility-according-to.html">shared responsibility.

[rrneck]

84. Then you should share responsibility

for the self defense of the citizens of Colorado. Have your super suit cleaned, you're gonna be busy.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. In the future...

If you are going to cite sources, please cite the original sources, not your blog. I'm not going to dig through multiple links to get to the real story.

Anyway, all I can continue to say is people with children should lock up their firearms.

[Berner]

85. children are often smarter than parents

My friends son killed his 10yo friend years ago. a gun was locked up following all the rules

Gunsmithing Schools

[Atypical Liberal]

86. Yup.

When I was a kid, I used to find the key to my dad's guns and play with them before my folks got home from work.

I'd use them to blow away models, or cars, etc.

But since I was raised with firearms since about 8 years old, I knew how to properly and safely play with them.

Locking them up is still a good idea.

[mikeb302000]

87. do you speak from some authority?

you sound like you're issuing orders.

Obviously telling people "lock up the firearms" is not enough. You guys need to be constrained to do the right thing, otherwise too many of you don't.

[rrneck]

88. From what authority do you speak?

:rofl:

[friendly_iconoclast]

90. "You guys need to be constrained to do the right thing, otherwise too many of you don't"

A very revealing statement, indeed.

I have a question for you: When you launder your shirts, how do you keep the black from fading?

[ileus]

14. Guns with kids kill people.

[rl6214]

19. Please define this "Colorado gun culture"

Is this something I can find in the internet or is this just one more thing you've made up to try to further your adgenda?

[ileus]

20. I think it's from old westerns...

[cleanhippie]

32. Do you ever wonder why no one reads your blog?

I don't, I KNOW why.

[rl6214]

34. That's why he's got to BEG to get people to even look at it

He disquises it so you don't know it's his blog (pretty dishonest as another poster here would put it) and as soon as someone clicks on it and finds it is they get right out of it.

[SteveM]

47. ",,,commercial/sea-salt debate resonates with the sugar/honey argum..."