East coast DU'ers... what are your hurricane/emergency preparedness firearms?

[-..__...]

The same question can also be asked for those not in the path of this storm.

What are your "go to guns" in the event of a natural disaster?

So far... it doesn't look like it's going to be anything like a Katrina level disaster, but, at the same time the weather forecasters are saying

this could be the worst storm we've seen in decades (I live just outside of Boston).

Luckily, I beat the super market and hardware mob scenes this AM and picked-up a few minor staples and supplies (water, batteries, etc).

Anyhow... the AR is good to go.

I have plenty of ammo, but probably won't load up any mags until I know what the final situation is.

I also have my 12 gauge Mossberg 500 (000 buckshot and deer slugs for that).

Finally, I have my nightstand Glock 22 (.40), and a few 15 round magazines.

The rest of my collection (and ammo, mags), is locked up tighter than a drum (but easily accessible), and adequately protected from any potential storm damage.

[Name removed]

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[MineralMan]

2. Yah, you bet. That's sure what I'd be worried about with a

hurricane bearing down. Feh! How are your neighbors? Are they all set up to handle the hurricane? Don't know? Go ask.

Way to go, dude! If you have to shoot someone, you're all set...

[-..__...]

20. I offered to share my ammo stockpile with them...

but, they said they were all set.

[iverglas]

3. ah, c'mon, folks, don't unrec

Somebody just cancelled out my rec. :(

Let's get this baby up to the top of the list!

[Arctic Dave]

4. I've seen some dumb post in the Gun Forum bu this may

have to start a new catagory.

[iverglas]

6. shall we have a competition?

If posts of the past count, I'll bet I can nominate a couple to give it a run for its money. ;)

[Arctic Dave]

8. What will Vegas give us for odds? LOL

[Name removed]

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[rl6214]

34. Hoyt, I thought we were being more civilized than saying the OP

had a "sickness"

[sudopod]

5. lolz XD nt

[MineralMan]

7. No hurricanes here in Minnesota, but we sure do have blizzards.

In preparation for those, I make sure I have gasoline for the snowblower and the chainsaw. I keep my generator tuned up. Then, I check on my neighbors and help them get their snow cleared off their driveways so they can get to work and the store. My guns? I can't remember thinking about those, really...

To each his or her own, I suppose. Remind me not to knock on your door to see how you're doing, though. I wouldn't want to get shot.

[Speck Tater]

9. You mean just in case the storm doesn't kill enough people. (or doesn't kill the right people).. nt

[HockeyMom]

10. None of my family in NY own guns

After two hip replacement surgeries, and complications, my husband's (live in Florida) guns are still sitting on the den floor from 3 months ago when he was going to go shooting. He cannot pick them up in his walker, and I will be damned if I will.

[iverglas]

14. oh noes, how will they survive?!?

But on a serious note, and in that spirit of concern for one's neighbours, would you not please consider locking the guns in question up? When burglars get them, somebody usually ends up doing something unpleasant with them.

[GreenStormCloud]

128. Sounds like the poster intends to ride the storm out at home.

Burglars won't be a problem. Looters are that posters concern.

[iverglas]

165. in case it needs clarifying

I referred to the three months that the guns have been lying on the floor, and the rest of the time they will continue to lie there, as it seems they will.

Nothing to do with hurricanes.

[one-eyed fat man]

191. Have you noted her posts before?

She has castigated her husband for dragging her from her blessed New York to the redneck backwater of "Flor-i-duh" in such terms as to make Xanthippe, by comparison, the soul of solicitude.

[GreenStormCloud]

208. Sorry. I thought you were responding to the OP. I have to agree with you this time. N/T

[iverglas]

211. is that your first 21-gun salute?

I'm finding this quite gob-smacking, but I know I gave someone a 21-gun salute here quite recently, and it seems to be gone ...

If anyone finds where it got mislaid to, it's yours!

edit -- I found it, I found it! And it was someone else's, but I pass it on to you:

[Ter]

250. What's the difference?

I sure don't see any.

[gejohnston]

182. Have to agree with iverglas on this one.

for same reasons. If you have grand kids or great grand kids that are young enough to be too curious, you get the point. You give us shit about having guns but are more concerned about spiting your husband than you care about safety or those guns falling in the wrong hands.

[DissedByBush]

11. My big gun

It held an empire for half a century, so I think it can hold my home.

[rl6214]

36. Got one just like it but not nearly as pretty

Mine is a surplus rifle from India if I remember correctly.

[DissedByBush]

112. Mine's not that pretty either

It's a stock image.

Mine's almost 90 years old, so there's no way it's looking that good.

[Abin Sur]

57. I have an Australian SMLE with a heavy barrel

It has the coolest sights I've ever seen. The front sight aperture (made by Parker-Hale) with a variable iris (like a camera shutter). Also, it has 6 different colored filters through which you sight; clear, green, blue, red, yellow, and orange. For different lighting conditions, one assumes.

I've been told the sight is worth more than the rifle :)

[TheWraith]

96. Fire that indoors, and you'll disable yourself as well as what you're shooting at.

Mine is chambered in .308, but even outdoors, the noise can cause hearing damage if you're not careful. Indoors you could easily stun yourself.

[DissedByBush]

206. I've stood next to the muzzle of a 155mm howitzer

While it was fired. Apparently it's a gun bunny joke to do to non-gun bunnies.

It was a bit stunning, but not disabling.

I considered inviting them over to do the same to me with my equipment, but the rocket exhaust would have killed them if they were anywhere near.

[Endangered Specie]

224. Odds are if you ever need to shoot it, your adrenaline dump

will take care of any loud noises affecting you.

A SMLE isn't gonna be much more louder than what some people propose setting off in their houses (12 gauge shotguns, AR/AK, .40 or .357 pistols).

[Endangered Specie]

225. Just be prepared to 'mad-minute' it!

[DissedByBush]

240. I've tried that

I have some serious respect for the British soldiers of yore, and those who try to replicate it today.

I don't come close, but I can get a good shot off every couple seconds for one clip. And then my shoulder hurts like hell.

And I don't see how they can reload the stripper clips that fast. Amazing ability.

[TheCowsCameHome]

12. I love the Onion.

I really do.

:rofl:

Some of their stories are priceless.

[onehandle]

13. Fear! nt

[-..__...]

17. Preparedness.

:smoke:

[SteveM]

170. Wind!

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. None.

[Auggie]

16. Here's what I pack for heat waves:

[jmg257]

141. Now THAT'S freaking funny. Good one! nt

[Auggie]

222. Thanks!

[tularetom]

18. Seems to me you might be more concerned with securing your home

by doing things like, oh I dunno, boarding up your windows and making arrangements for emergency power, filling you coolers with ice, making sure your cell phone is charged.

I can't even begin to imagine what sort of emergency you are anticipating.

We don't have a lot of hurricanes here in the Sierra, but if we did I would worry more about my horses, my dogs and my home than my guns. They're all in a safe.

[-..__...]

21. What makes you think I haven't already taken those precations?

I can't even begin to imagine what sort of emergency you are anticipating

And that's just it, isn't it? Knowing what to anticipate.

[Abin Sur]

19. Hard to beat a Mossberg 590A1

Or any similar shotgun for home defense. Should a longer-range situation arise, the AR-15 in 6.8 SPC should do the trick.

Of course, I have cases of MREs, medical supplies, water, batteries...

Like the Boy Scouts say...Be Prepared.

(mind you, I'm not too worried about hurricanes, being in the mountains west of Denver)

[Name removed]

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[rl6214]

37. Quite an imagination you have

but we all know that with some of the shit you come up with.

[Hoyt]

39. So, why don't you tell us why one needs to be prepared for a "long-range" situation in a disaster.

[Abin Sur]

42. Remember the shopkeepers in LA's Koreatown?

They held looters at bay in the LA riots of '92 with AR-15s.

[Hoyt]

49. We are not talking about a riot, we are talking about a hurricane or similar disaster.

Until you can recognize the difference, you should not be allowed to own a gun.

[Abin Sur]

50. From the title of the original post:

what are your hurricane/emergency preparedness firearms?

I would say a riot counts as an emergency, yes?

[Hoyt]

58. You are really stretching. OP is referring to an emergency situation such as a hurricane, not riots

And, OP is about East Coast Emergency Situation -- if you can't understand the difference, you do not have judgement to determine proper use of a gun.

I guess to some here, it's all the same -- just an opportunity to use all that target, fast draw, and other training/planning they've been putting in so they'll be ready when an opportunity to shoot someone arises.

[rl6214]

90. Still waiting for you to back up where anyone here has said they

practice target, fast draw etc

[rl6214]

89. Tell that to the residents of NO that had to defend themselves

against the looters.

[TheWraith]

98. Hunting, if the emergency response takes longer than your food supply holds out.

I hear the south-east is lousy with wild hogs. Mmm... ham. I imagine some of the people of rural Louisiana after Katrina needed to do a little hunting.

[safeinOhio]

122. Stats.

• 55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
• 20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
• 20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
• 95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet. (Source- FBI)
• The average man can cover 21 feet of ground in 1.5 seconds.
• The average man cannot draw a gun from concealment in under 2 seconds.
• Seek and use cover. Be aware of false cover. (ie bushes - that's concealment, not cover)
• The average gunfight is over in 3-5 seconds.
• 3 to 4 shots are usually fired.
• Most gunfights take place in low light conditions.
• On average, one shot in four strikes someone.

[Abin Sur]

38. Er...what bridge?

I'm in the mountains west of Denver. As for long-range situations, it depends on the nature of the disaster in question. If there was a man-made disaster or civil unrest of sufficient scope to send looters out of the Denver Metro Area, it only seems prudent to be able to have a weapon capable of stand-off tactics.

For those who don't think such things could happen, I need only remind you of the riots of the '60s and '90s here in the States and the London riots of a couple of weeks ago. Those certainly aren't the worst examples of civil unrest imaginable, are they?

[Name removed]

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[Abin Sur]

59. The shopkeepers in the LA riots didn't seem to have any problem, did they?

[Hoyt]

61. No, because it was a riot. Mothers with starving children weren't out fleeing a disaster.

Get real.

[Abin Sur]

63. Since I have no plans to shoot mothers with starving children

What's your beef?

[Hoyt]

66. Gunners "preparing" to shoot people during a disaster is my issue on this thread.

It ought to be your issue as well.

[Abin Sur]

67. Aren't I lucky to have you to help decide what my issues ought to be?

Or...maybe not :-)

[spin]

104. Homeowners preparing to defend themselves against home invaders ...

who might threaten the occupants health or lives. Sounds like legitimate self defense to me.

As far as being prepared, you probably will not be able to drive down to your local gun store and buy firearms during or shortly after a hurricane.

And don't count on calling 911 and having the cops show up at your door. They don't respond after the wind reaches a predetermined level and may not be able to reach your home after the storm because of flooded streets and downed trees. In fact, your telephone service and cell phones may not work.

[Name removed]

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[spin]

111. Much depends on where you live ...

During hurricane Charlie I was at my daughter's house in South Florida as I had been notified to evacuate Tampa. She lived far out in the country and the nearest house was well over 1/4 mile away.

I didn't have any rifles at the time, but I had gathered up my handguns when I evacuated Tampa just to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands after the storm hit.

Hurricane Charlie decided to ignore all the predictions and turned toward Ft. Myers rather than traveling all the way to Tampa. We were approximately 60 miles from the center of this very powerful but fortunately very compact Category 4 hurricane.

We didn't anticipate being hit by the hurricane but we were well prepared to defend ourselves if it had proved necessary. My son in law had two rifles, a lever action 30-30 and a bolt action Mauser. In very rural areas, a longer range weapon might prove a good choice for self defense.

It's called being prepared. Fortunately we also had a generator which I had bought for my daughter the year before just in case she was hit by a hurricane. We also had water and food and a propane grill to use as a stove. The power was down for several days but my son in law had a motor home which had air conditioning. It came in very handy during the hot nights in South Florida as the generator could not run the home AC unit.

Thanks for your insult that people like me are a "drag on society." Feel free to project your fear of firearms and those who own them on me. I have a thick skin and to be honest I honestly fell sorry for you because it must be hell to have to live with such irrational paranoia and fear.

[Hoyt]

130. It's called being paranoid and afraid of your neighbors. Just what we need in a disaster.

[spin]

146. Actually in the rural area where I rode out Hurricane Charlie ...

there were no neighbors.

When I stayed in Tampa during numerous tropical storms, my neighbors and I would have defended the neighborhood if necessary. Fortunately it never was. The majority of my neighbors in Tampa were immigrants from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Columbia, El Salvador, and the The Dominican Republic. They were hard working honest people who loved the opportunities that our nation offers them. Many of them were armed as they also appreciate the Second Amendment.

Unlike you, I am not paranoid or fearful nor do I project my fears and my insecurities on other people as you do. Being prepared and having a plan is a far better approach to potential problems than sticking your head in the sand.

[Hoyt]

161. You finally get point -- you don't need a gun or anything in a disaster. People are just surviving.

[SteveM]

177. Except for that car full o' thugs who take advantage of ALL disasters. nt

[Hoyt]

184. Where is that "car full of thugs" except in your mind?

[SteveM]

198. Ah, Hoyt. Beware the flatbed truck going the other way during an evacuation.

[spin]

194. YOU don't get MY point ...

There is nothing wrong with being prepared and that includes being prepared to defend yourself or your family in an emergency.

While it is true that in most cases you will have no need for a weapon for defense, there are no guarantees.

In case a hurricane approaches my area, I will not have to run out and buy a firearm as I already have firearms. I also will not have to buy a generator as I have one.

[Hoyt]

196. You got, not likely to arise during a hurricane or other disaster. Waste of time to prepare and

indicates paranoia and unfair distrust of those impacted by a disaster.

You wouldn't need to run out and buy a firearm, even if you didn't have one. But dream/nightmare on.

[spin]

213. It doesn't bother me in the least that you consider that owning ...

firearms for self defense in a natural disaster is a waste of time.

I own firearms anyhow. I didn't buy them as part of my preparation plan for situations like hurricanes. I enjoy shooting and have for over 40 years. My firearms and my enjoyment of shooting are part of my life.

It would be foolish to run out and buy a firearm at the last minute when a hurricane was approaching. Merely owning a firearm is no guarantee that you can use it to successfully defend yourself. Owning a set of golf clubs does not mean that you can go out on a golf course and break par. Owning a piano does not make you a musician.

I don't distrust people during or after a natural disaster and I realize that such situations often bring out the best in people and I have witnessed this. Unfortunately, it can also bring out the worst in some people. The fact that I have lived through several hurricanes without ever running afoul of such a person is absolutely no guarantee that I never will.

I live in the real world. The overwhelming majority of people are basically good and honest (except for cheating on their income taxes and often their significant other.) Unfortunately, there exists a small minority that will pillage, plunder and rape if given the opportunity.

Continue living in your fantasy world that's filled with honey, peaches and cream. I will hope and pray that you never have an incident that forces you to accept that there is both good and evil in this world.

[oneshooter]

164. It is not my neighbors, it is the strangers who want to help themselves to our food and water

after the storm. There are people in this country who believe that what is yours is theirs. I will share, untill it starts to hurt my family, then all bets are off.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

171. When has that happened to you in a disaster?

[one-eyed fat man]

197. January-February 2009 ice storm.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1876304,00.html

I was without power for just over month. It was minor inconvenience. There were in-town "neighbors" who were not nearly as well prepared. They were the ones stealing generators and getting into fistfights over kerosene. With chains on the 4-wheel drive and a chainsaw in the back to clear fallen trees from the road way we got to work.

[Hoyt]

201. Don't see a thing about looters, etc., at link. Were you guys shooting the sleet falling?

[one-eyed fat man]

215. Who said anything about shooting?

I didn't say anything about looters. I mentioned an ice storm which knocked out power for the better part of a month in the dead of winter. You are the only one talking about shooting people.

[oneshooter]

234. When Ike hit the Houston area we lost power for two weeks.

Trees and downed telephone poles delayed the response time of local LEO from 30-45min. to "when ever we can find a way too you" Most of us have generators and extra fuel available. Most of us kept them in the back yard but a few new folks put them in the front of the house. 4 hours after the storm a group of us with 3 trucks and chainsaws had the streets clear enough to drive through. We formed, along with 3 LEO's that lived here a citizens patrol. At night we would patrol the neighborhood. We caught 3 thieves trying to steal generators. The LEO made the arrest with citizens providing back up. Two of the perps were armed, but offered no Resistance when faced with a single LEO backed by 3 armed citizens.
The neighborhood worked together, I loaned out my spare generator to several that didn't have one. 12hrs each to cool freezers and fridges. Several others did the same. When the roads opened up several of us went to find fuel and groceries. I filled the back of my truck with neighbors fuel cans so that if i found a station open I would fill all of them. I carried a AR-15 with a 20rd mag in the well and a thirty on the stock, as well as my SIG 220 concealed. When I found fuel a LEO was directing traffic at the station, he saw the AR and his only comment was "Nice AR".

Do you even have the slightest idea what damage a hurricane can do. Or it to you "just a little wind and rain"?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[SteveM]

175. "paranoid" and a drag on society, eh? Didn't know we were so entertaining. nt

[SteveM]

173. Can non-"gunners" make such preparations?

You know, the millions of Americans who are armed but don't post here or on any "gun" thread? Can they make preparations which involve deadly force if necessary? Will you let them have their guns?

Incidentally, "preparadness" viz guns can mean how to protect or remove them from harm's way.

[gejohnston]

145. you help out the mothers and kids

and share. I think a couple of major points are being missed. I fail to see the problem with always be prepared for the absolute worst. In disasters most come together as communities and help each other etc. There is always a few opportunistic predators.
Another question is will emergency services be operational enough to deal with the problem or not? If I understand correctly, this hurricane may hit in New England and New York, which don't have a history having them. With that in mind, do these local governments have useful contingency plans in place? Do they have the ability to carry them out if needed?

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

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[gejohnston]

207. why did I say that was paranoid and callous?

You help each other out and there will always be a few sociopaths.

[SteveM]

178. Yessir, Responses 151 and 171 sum it all up. nt

[oneshooter]

44. You are describing what the NO cops did after Katrina. n/a

[Hoyt]

52. I'm describing the town that sent police to stop people on the bridge to "protect" their "white"

neighborhoods from people needing help to keep from dying.

BTW -- one of the heroes during Katrina was General Honore who yelled at the National Guard troops to "put down those god damn weapons,that's not what we are here for." Guess you would criticize him too.

[oneshooter]

68. Cite to proof. n/t

[Hoyt]

73. Look up Bridge to Gretna or similar. Heck, even some TBaggers I know were outraged by that.

[oneshooter]

75. From Wiki.......

"In one widely played clip, Honore was seen on the streets of the city, barking orders to subordinates and, in one case, berating a soldier who displayed a weapon, telling him "We're on a rescue mission damn it!"

If you are going to quote, quote properly.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

199. I heard what he said. Another for you is "Don't get stuck on stupid."

Fact is, white folks with guns (or surrogates) misread the entire situation and poor people needing food, water, and shelter were killed or turned away.

Now we have a whole new generation of gunners preparing to shoot people fleeing Irene.

[gejohnston]

210. what are you saying there were no poor white people?

and that all nonwhite people are poor?

Wrong both accounts.

[Hoyt]

216. No, what I'm saying is racists in Gretna did not want those fleeing from Katrina in their community.

Learn to read and assess things . . . . . . before you walk out of your house with a few guns strapped to your body.

Further, I'm saying the gunners here whose first concern over Irene was "what kind of guns you going to have ready to shoot people fleeing Irene" are good enough reason for me to support severe limits on guns.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

219. You continue to play

Stalwart of you, but surely you know it a game by now...

[SteveM]

180. When argument fails, the Race Card is pulled. Everytime.

You need to realize that modern gun control is founded on the principles of Jim Crow. That blacks can now more fully exercise their Second Amendment rights is a direct result of the Civil Rights movement, and the expansion of Second Amendment rights; the latter of which would not have been possible without the aid of...

Gun-controllers/prohibitionists.

For this I thank you.

[Hoyt]

200. No, modern gun control would ban them in public for everyone.

And you are wrong, if you think aftermath of Katrina wasn't a racial issue. Folks in Gretna should have welcomed the fleeing people, but it ain't that way in places like Gretna, Louisiana. Heck, how many racist, gun towns have their own Web site like: www.gretnasucks.com

[SteveM]

202. No, sir. "Modern gun control" would leave them in the hands of thugs...

...and the elite.

You are looking for race to glom onto your ideology. Fact is, women, blacks and other minorities have far more ability to legally obtain firearms.

BTW, you will know when the Far Right has gained "permanent power:" They will call for gun control.

[Hoyt]

203. Good god man, get help.

[SteveM]

204. What are you talking about? Now we have the psych card? nt

[Hoyt]

217. Simple, you are so afraid of losing your guns you're posting irrational fears.

Doesn't take a psychologist to recognize that. Most little kids would be twirling their fingers around their ear listening to some of you guys' fears over aftermath of Irene.

[SteveM]

238. Psychology is one of those unfortunate "professions" everyone is a member of...

I'm not all that afraid of losing "gun rights." What I am concerned about is the insistence, rather irrational in itself, of so-called liberals in doggedly pursuing the gun-control issue within the Democratic Party, all to the benefit of the GOP. That is why I am here.

BTW, I'm not all that concerned over Irene's or any other storm's aftermath, and I saw little concern with others, even those who lie in her path. Just discussion of precautions.

[oneshooter]

236. There you go again."everyone"? n/t

[krispos42]

22. Much to the dismay of some of the folks here, I'll answer "not much"

Part of it being that I'm on vacation in Illinois.



But I as of yet haven't reached the financial resources to prepare as much as I'd like. So no lurid tales of loading M1 Carbine magazines and taping them together, or bayonet sharpening, or packing my (fictional) XD9 in my pants.

Sorry, guys!



But, I've got some buckshot for my shotgun and several hundred rounds of ammo for my .22s.


I just wish I had more confidence in that new red-dot scope that I bought.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Abin Sur]

47. You don't know what a red-dot sight is, do you?

[Hoyt]

54. Sure I do, gunners use them to shoot people at a distance, or targets in preparation for

shooting people at a distance.

I think laser sights seem more popular among our gunners here. Do you use those on some of your guns, as well?

[Abin Sur]

62. Are you aware that red dot sights don't magnify?

What's next? Do you have a problem with iron sights as well?

As for laser sights, I do have one mounted on a Taurus 1911.

So what? Do you think laser sights should be illegal or restricted?

[Hoyt]

64. Depends on what you plan on using those sights to shoot.

I personally don't see how a red dot sight is going to do you a lot of good in a mugging, home invasion, etc., situation. Now if you are planning on shooting people at a distance, I can see why you'd think you need one. Of course, I have to wonder why you'd even think of shooting people at a distance.

[Abin Sur]

70. You *really* don't know what a red dot sight is, do you?

I personally don't see how a red dot sight is going to do you a lot of good in a mugging, home invasion, etc., situation. Now if you are planning on shooting people at a distance, I can see why you'd think you need one.

The entire point of a red dot sight is for more accurate short-range shooting! For targets at a distance, one would use a scope which magnifies the view.

Honestly, how can you discuss this subject without knowing anything about the subject at hand?

[Hoyt]

74. In a mugging, I doubt you'll be sighting your gun. If you have that much time, you shouldn't shoot.

[Abin Sur]

77. Should I use The Force instead?

I wouldn't have a red dot sight on a carry gun...far too bulky. As for sighting, let me get this straight: your advice is not to use the sights on one's gun when shooting a mugger?

[Hoyt]

78. Since a mugging will be within a few feet -- your sights are useless and you'll be shot if you try.

Well, unless you are the type gunner who'll draw his gun at 50 feet when someone who looks like they think a mugger looks approaches.

So, exactly what "characteristics" do you look for to identify a mugger at a distance where sights might be useful?

[Abin Sur]

82. Sights are useful at distances much closer than 50 feet.

I'm surprised that you, with your lightning-fast ability to strip a 1911 blindfolded, don't know that.

[Hoyt]

84. At 2 feet, with 0.15 seconds to respond? I think not.

[Abin Sur]

87. Again...you're saying 2 feet. Not me.

On that note, I'm going to call it a night. I have to go in to work early (that suppressor I'm saving for won't pay for itself, after all).

You've been a load of laughs...really! We simply have to do this again sometime!

[Hoyt]

101. So, you gonna shoot em at 25 feet? How will you know they are a mugger at 25'?

Is it written on their shirt or something? Cause they won't have a gun drawn at 25'. Well again, unless you are shooting folks at distance who may merely need water. . . . . .

How many guns do you need nearby when you retire at night? Just kidding, you don't have to count them.

[rl6214]

94. Our soldiers us red dot scopes when clearing houses all the time

Their rifles are always at the ready and with a wide area of view they know whatever the red dot is on they will hit whether it is two or ten feet away.

[Hoyt]

109. You imagine yourself needing to clear a house? Besides, with a mugger you'll have 0.15 seconds.

No time to aim. Again, unless one shoots at a distance or in someone's back.

[melm00se]

120. tell me

do muggers just pop into existence .15 seconds away?

no, they don't, they move into towards you. In a self defense situation you need to be aware of your surroundings and, if someone begins to approach you in a anything that resembles a threatening manner, you put yourself through your self defense process:

1) recognize the threat
2) attempt to retreat from the situation (if unable or unsuccessful go to step #3)
3) uncover your weapon (9 times out of 10 this will dissuade your attacker)
4) draw your weapon (at this point only a fool or a determined foe will continue to approach)
5) present
(total time for #s 3 thru 5, according to my last competition times, is approximately 1 second)
6) fire in defense of your life (double tap center mass)

something I find about most anti-self defense folks (especially anti-gun folks) is that they firmly believe that we (pro-gun, pro-self defense) are just itching to shoot someone. Nothing could be further from the truth. No sane person relishes the idea of shooting (and probably killing some one - 2 9mm rounds to the chest will ruin someone's day, week, month and lifetime) someone. The difference between you and me is that I have planned for my personal self defense, have run the scenarios through my mind, planned out my actions and, God forbid, if I have to drop the hammer, I will do it in order to save my life and others.

I also fully understand that there will be repercussions (physical, emotional, psychological, legal and social ones) if I have to do it (this is hammered into your head in every personal handgun defense training class I have taken - - something I doubt that many, if any, anti-gunners have done).

because of those repercussions, I will never actively seek a confrontation but if someone brings that confrontation to me and I cannot avoid it, I am 100% certain that I can and will shoot in defense of my and my family's safety and make no mistake: I will, if forced to fire (last option in the self defense process), shoot completely, 100%, absolutely and without a doubt, to kill. No Hollywood "shoot 'em in the shoulder", no "shoot the gun out of their hand", no "shoot 'em in the leg", but center mass (heart, lungs, liver) and they will probably die. Those are the choices they made, those are the choices I have made.

if you would prefer to get your ass kicked (with all the possibilities of injury, long term, short term or permanent) that is, of course, your prerogative. I choose not to take that path.

[Hoyt]

129. So, you will pull or "uncover" your weapon before you know for sure you are being mugged. Nice.

That's exactly how I think most gunners here will respond. They have this idea of what a mugger looks like and will use their gun to intimidate, etc., before they are actually mugged. Playing judge, jury, jesus, excecutioner and perhaps using a stereotype of what a "mugger" looks like.

[melm00se]

176. let's look at the steps I listed

1) recognize the threat

someone who is taking an inordinate interest in you, your movements etc can be classified as a threat, so, you go to the next step

2) attempt to retreat from the situation (if unable or unsuccessful go to step #3)

If someone pursues you while you are retreating, they just shot up the threat scale from potential threat to a threat so you proceed to the next step:

3) uncover your weapon (9 times out of 10 this will dissuade your attacker)

This means moving your cover garment out of the way so that you can access your firearm if forced to step #4. Doing this exposes the fact that you are armed to the threat and communicates, just in case they don't get it, that you are aware of their presence and you are prepared to take action. if the threat continues, go to step #4

4) draw your weapon (at this point only a fool or a determined foe will continue to approach)

This signals in no uncertain terms that you recognize the threat and are just a heartbeat or 2 from taking decisive and irrevocable action.

5) present
(total time for #s 3 thru 5, according to my last competition times, is approximately 1 second)

This is the threat's last chance to cease his threatening actions and withdraw as you are now in a position to fire. if the threat continues the next and final step:

6) fire in defense of your life (double tap center mass)

Now, lets examine those steps in conjunction with your comment:

Playing judge, jury, jesus, excecutioner...

Judge? yes, I judge people by their actions. if they are approach me and continue to approach me while I am withdrawing I am certainly judging their actions.

Jury? I am evaluating the threat based upon the presented evidence.

Jesus? I am certainly not Him.

Executioner? Throughout the 6 steps listed above, the threat is given numerous opportunities to break off and go elsewhere and if they choose to do so, they walk away with no harm...if and only if they press the situation to the point where I am in fear for my life (the only legal justification to use deadly force), I am sorry then I will defend myself and will do so to the best of my ability with all the tools at my disposal.

Perhaps you are willing to let someone you deem a possible threat get close enough to do you (or your loved ones) grave physical harm with the hopes that won't happen to you, that's great...by all means do so but I choose not to rely of thoughts unicorns, sunshine and lollipops to protect me from those in this world who prey on others.

[ileus]

154. Most people end up just practicing in their own home.

going thru the motions without firing. You can go to a bunch of different schools some are even pretty inexpensive....well worth the money.

[Hoyt]

174. Gunners here have criticized me for posting of their posing/practicing to kill in their homes.

Appreciate the admission.

[rl6214]

226. Where does it say anywhere in my post that I imagine myself

clearing a house? Where?

You need some serious help. Are you bi-polar? You can't seem to get anything straight. You twist and turn everything around.

Do you know that with a mugger you'll only have 0.15 seconds? I suppose you can cite your proof or are you just full of BS as usual?

Do you walk out of your house with a roll of toilet paper or two strapped to your hip just in case?

[RSillsbee]

231. So, go ahead Hoyt I can't wait to hear YOU tell ME about muggings

Ever been mugged dude? Ever actually been in the situation you purport to tell us how to deal w/?

[Union Scribe]

235. Where does this "0.15 seconds" come from?

Did I miss a link with the cite?

[mwrguy]

113. Red dots are for quick target aquisition at relatively close range

i.e. perfect for defense against mugging and home invasion, especially in low light

They generally are not magnified, so are not good for long range. In fact, at long range many dots will obscure the target altogether.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

181. MANY MANY people who shoot pistol competitoins use red dot sights...

Namely Aimpoint Micro, C-More, or DrOptic sights. They drastically improve target aquisition SPEED... they do not MAGNIFY or Enhance long rage shooting. The parralax free nature of the sight means the shooter does not have to take TIME to line up the posts and notches. They simply make shooting precisely MORE QUICKLY easier.

The fct is... with most long guns (Winchester, bolt action, AR15, AK47...) the iron sights will shoot point blank accuracy out to about 250-300 yards. At those distances, given a properly sighted rifle and a steady hold, there's no reason to be missing 12" targets. You don't need Red Dots to shoot far, only more time to focus on the posts and notches of the traditional iron or peep sight. So Red Dots don't enhance long range shooting anymore than short range shooting - they just make aiming quick.

In contrast, a telescopic sight (scope) literally magnifies an image that is small (far away) and has enhanced reticles for accomoodating drop and windage at longer distances.

[SteveM]

183. "Dependa on what [I] polan on using those..." for? How about hunting?

Of course, most red dot sights for that purpose are mounted on powerful handguns and slug-capable shotguns. Neither are particularly long range, even when compared with old deer rifles like the .30/30.

In any case, to meet with your standards, perhaps red dot purchasers will have to remember to tell the clerk/government that they are using the sight for coyote hunting in the backyard.

[oneshooter]

65. He knows nothing of what he speaks, a total idiot when it comes to firearms. n/t

[Abin Sur]

71. That's becoming increasingly obvious. n/t

[Hoyt]

76. Ah another gunner who thinks opinions on guns are meaningless if you don't know a clip from a mag.

I bet I can strip a 1911 blindfolded as fast, or faster, than you (not that it means anything). But I don't think folks should be carrying them in public or thinking of what they may need to shoot people during a disaster.

[Abin Sur]

79. Suuuure you can.

This from the guy who thinks red dot sights are for long range, and not for short range.

I don't think folks should be carrying them in public or thinking of what they may need to shoot people during a disaster.

What else would you like to keep people from thinking of?

[Hoyt]

80. So in a split second at two feet, you are going sight your weapon? BS.

[Abin Sur]

83. When did I say two feet?

[Hoyt]

105. Oh, you identify and shoot a mugger at 50 feet? What do you look for at that distance?

They ain't gonna be carrying a gun or anything in their hand at that distance.

So how do you know at that distance, who represents a threat to you? How do you recognize a "thug" at 50 feet on a city street?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

95. Stick to things you actually know something about

You know nothing about self defense tactics
You know nothing about much of the technology or how it is used.

Your opinions about carrying in public require no technical knowledge and you can express it without showing yourself the fool.

[Hoyt]

106. Don't care to know how every weapon is used -- alls I need is to know what use you intend for it.

Or practice just in case.

Even if you say, "I hope to use the gun on my hip, or the backup on my lower leg, only as a last resort, but I want to have the option and might want to sell one or two for an extra buck ." Or some similarly inane comment.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

123. The intent is clearly self defense

All I have ever said, all I have ever taught

[Hoyt]

131. You apparently know nothing of "self-defense" beyond using guns.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

143. Quite a bit more actually

Many men my age spent time in a uniform of some sort. I also studied martial arts for years as we moved around the world.

Concealed carry is not much of an issue in Socal. Those counties are very restrictive, not so much with Kern or other more rural counties in CA. Unloaded open carry is a license for the cops to harass your unmercifully. However, that is backing off a bit since some stings have been run. That there is even a rifle scabbard on my 4 wheeler makes city cops real nervous, as was experienced recently.

I live in wild part of the CA desert (yes it still exists). I have no cell phone service for 20+ miles, am 30 minutes from the nearest cop shop, and the neighborhood cats are cougars. I carry a firearm since a breakdown could strand me for an extended period and in that situation, two legged miscreants are not the biggest concern. I also carry water and other emergency supplies. One saddlebag is dedicated to tools and supplies, and a mix of extra rounds. It is not just about guns. Not sure what I would do if I lived in say, Pasadena, but it would certainly change what I carry on the bike. They are all tools for me, nothing more.

I teach self defense with personal firearms on the weekends, mostly to GLBTs and women, the overwhelming majority of whom are liberal or progressive and are members of the Democratic party. Sometimes it seems as much a political event as a training one. We encourage that discussion and part of the weekend sessions are just that, discussion.

The unfortunate reality is a fair number of the students are there because they have already been a victim of violence. When that happens, it tends to shatter their world view. Effective training gives them options they did not believe they had before. Not all of them go the firearms route. One lady that comes to mind believes that she could not use one in an extreme circumstances. Her call and likely a good one. She still comes to the potlucks and shoots occasionally.

[TheWraith]

100. So you think your opinion is valid when it's completely and totally uninformed?

What the fuck is that? In that case, I just became a brain surgeon. No, I don't know anything about it. But I THINK I do, and that's enough to make my opinion just as valid as actual surgeons.

:eyes:

[oneshooter]

168. Oods are that you can field strip your plastic toy. And that a real Goverment Model

will have you running away,screaming like a little girl, and messing your shorts.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[RSillsbee]

232. Given that you need to see that the half moon notch is correctly positioned

to dissasemble an M1911 I'm calling BS

[rl6214]

92. Shows just how clueless you really are

Red dot scopes are used just like the normal sights are used on any rifle. They don't magnify or bring things closer, they just help you aquire your target a little easier.

Really you should learn what you are making a mistake about before you stick your foot in it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

93. Ding Ding Ding...We have another Hoyt screw up

Read before you post, you won't end up being wrong and looking stupid nearly as often.

[rl6214]

97. Red dot sight

"A red dot sight is a common classification<1> for a type of non-magnifying reflector (or reflex) sight for firearms that gives the user an aimpoint in the form of a red dot. A standard design uses a red light-emitting diode (LED) at the focus of collimating optics which generates a dot style illuminated reticle that stays in alignment with the weapon the sight is attached to regardless of eye position (nearly parallax free). They are considered to be fast acquisition and easy to use gun sights for target shooting, hunting, and in police and military applications."

See fast acquisition, quicker than iron sights and NON-magnifying

DUH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_sight

[krispos42]

244. Wow, I just re-checked this thread

After, yanno, driving back from Illinois on Friday and spending Saturday hurricane-proofing the house. Seems like quite a discussion going on.



Um... my red-dot scope as 1x magnification, and if you turn up the brightness too much it actually makes it harder to shoot, not easier, because the glare obscures what's behind it.


It's intended for relatively close-range stuff. The red crosshairs are faster and easier to see than black ones.


If I wanted to kill people at a distance, I'd use the 7mm bolt-action with the 4x scope on it. Drop a human at maybe 300 yards with it. ;-)



Lasers are not particularly useful at long ranges, either. Although if I did have a pistol I'd almost certainly have a flashlight/laser combo on it.

[krispos42]

103. Oh no no no

Not the ones that are fleeing. That's hardly sporting. It's barely interesting.

[panader0]

23. You're going to shoot the hurricane?

You sound very paranoid. Unrec

[Sherman A1]

25. Agreed

[iverglas]

24. I can't believe 0 recs - what's wrong with everybody?

I think this deserves the widest possible audience.

K&R!

Well, K; I already R-ed, right off the bat, but in vain ...

[-..__...]

26. If I could "rec" myself, I would...

but I can't. :(

As an alternative... I would offer to alert on myself, but then it would tarnish my "squeaky-clean" record.

I hope you understand.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[-..__...]

33. Good fer you!!!

Trying desperately to get a moderator's attention about the threatening PMs being sent out ... I'd thought I was special because it said something about wanting to watch my entrails fall out onto the floor, and I figured it was riffing on me saying that trying to divine meaning from your old founding fathers' parchment bits was like reading chicken entrails, but then I put up a warning thread and I realized it was mere coincidence that someone else had used a word seldom heard at DU in the same 24 hours, because another person had got the same thing, and then it transpired that there was thread after thread about the same troll by a different name over a long period, but I still didn't want some poor less easily amused soul getting entrail talk at 3 in the morning, so I just kept alerting on this and alerting on that ... and then finally my thread got locked, tersely.

So hell ya, I'd try that.

Tenacity and perseverance in a difficult situation is an admirable trait... I never would have guessed you had it in you!!

If we had the ability to "rec" individual posts... I'd give you one... really I would.

:applause:

Ohh... BTW, what's with the long rambling/run-on unformatted sentence?

And no post-post "Edit to correct XXX mistake"

That's unusual.

[iverglas]

41. ah, I wondered when someone would remark on my diligence

When I edit a post, I note whether it was for a typo or an html error -- and if I add something substantive I note it as "edit:".

It seems only fair to the reader to let them know what alteration might have been made, particularly if they read it before the edit and maybe even replied to it.

Sadly, I am completely unable to spot typos before the submit button is clicked. It's kinda like my work. I got a little chide today from one of those government people about how I'd managed to knock the first digits off several large numbers in the body of a document I was working on. I just can't seem to do numbers. I have a junior partner for some of the stuff I do these days for a bit of the university. We check each other's work. I have to rewrite large swaths of his; he has to correct any numbers that occur in mine.

But listen, anyhow, if you got a PM wanting to rip your entrails out and watch you die a slow painful death, at 3:00 a.m., it might seem a good time to write a run-on sentence to you too. Stylistic devices. I have a two-page poem I wrote about a squirrel I was once close with and the thoughts a squirrel can prompt, all one sentence, very effective, try it sometime,



Ah, there you go. I'd said "when I edit a thread" and not seen it until it was posted, and so as not to confuse you, I've edited it to "when I edit a post". Happy?

[-..__...]

85. "Wondered"?... I noticed it ages ago.

Did it/does it bother me?

Sort of... but not in the way you'd expect.

Why you might ask?

Because while it's understandable and normal to re-edit a post to correct a mistake or add something (say a link or more info),

it's not normal or customary to offer an explanation.

It seems only fair to the reader to let them know what alteration might have been made, particularly if they read it before the edit and maybe even replied to it.

I've been online 15-16 years, been on God knows how many newsgroups, bulletin boards, web forums, etc, and to the best of my recollection, you're the
sole person to go back and correct a punctuation mistake, and offer an explanation of it.

Allow me to clue you in on something.... no one really cares or notices.

It's the Internet... it's that simple.

You need to lighten up a bit and maybe some of us would take you more seriously.

Case in point...

Sadly, I am completely unable to spot typos before the submit button is clicked. It's kinda like my wo... <EOM>

No one asked you to explain yourself... yet you did.

Why?

It's nobody elses business... right?

About the worst mistake you could make right now is to respond to this post and go on and on explaining yourself even further, digging a deeper hole

for yourself, but you won't. The temptation is too great.

I have a two-page poem I wrote about a squirrel I was once close with and the thoughts a squirrel can prompt, all one sentence, very effective, try it sometime,

Clearly we're not on the same page with this one (should I be surprised?)

Squirrels are one of my arch nemesis, and the only good one, is a dead one (I have a mass burial ground in my backyard... I have pics of it somewhere).

Ah, there you go. I'd said "when I edit a thread" and not seen it until it was posted, and so as not to confuse you, I've edited it to "when I edit a post".

Haa Haa Haa... you made a funny!!!

:eyes:

Happy?

Yeah... sure... whatever.

[PavePusher]

132. Zing! n/t

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[petronius]

32. Sure is a trend here - a whole series of disgusting accusations from the usual suspects

in the 'gun control' contingent (and a few transients). Really not what I'd expect from smart, decent DUers with high standards of personal integrity and intellectual honesty. But obviously I'm mistaken about some part of that... :shrug:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[petronius]

56. Honestly, I'm very surprised that you haven't been tombstoned yet...

:shrug:

[iverglas]

48. quelle surprise

I wonder how many DUers expected to click on a post about hurricane preparedness when they logged on tonight and read this thing?

C'mon now. I believe the post got the response it was looking for. I know I hate to disappoint, myself! I'm expected to snork, and I did.

[petronius]

55. Indeed, you are expected to behave that way, and you rarely disappoint

I wouldn't call that a good thing, myself, but you must have different standards...

[SteveM]

185. Yeah, I was particularly curious about the women-with-no-balls one

[rl6214]

40. How many times are you going to post the same, useless crap

over and over and over again.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

99. Exactly none

I have never bought a gun to shoot anyone. I have shot deer, rabbit and a lot of clay pigeons and targets but that's about it. Sorry to disappoint you.

[rl6214]

227. Ah hoyt

I see your post was deleted where you asked how many times I was going to buy a new gun to shoot someone. Wonder who alerted on it.

[-..__...]

46. "Tag'em and bag'em"?

Without more details... I can't answer that... sorry.

[Hoyt]

60. You've already provided your answer with the callous OP. Go polish your guns so you'll be ready.

[jmg257]

51. I have a few guns locked in the safe...other then that I'm more

concerned with the generator starting when the power goes out.

Are you expecting the high winds and terrential rains to cause an influx of people trying to attack you or invade your home while you are there? An AR mag or 2 worth of wet & wind-blown zombies coming to steal your foodstuffs and leave your family to starve, hence justifying responding with deadly physical force?

Well - good luck Thunderdome!

[Hoyt]

69. Most reasoned/rational post here.

[spin]

107. You might also worry about your generator being stolen ...

There were individuals who stole generators in the neighborhood where I lived in Tampa after a extremely powerful tropical storm knocked the power out for five days.

I wasn't worried. I didn't have a generator.

[jmg257]

142. Na, I don't worry about that. Trees coming down, power outage is about it.. Well - that,

and the in-laws coming to stay with us! :)

[SteveM]

186. I have a brother on the Bradford/Alachua line. He gets his chainsaw ready.

[jmg257]

192. Yep - thanks for the reminder...definitely want to get that in the house and

"good to go".

[-..__...]

155. Nice try...

but my concern is with the aftermath.

The roof could come off (this is a 100+ year old wood structure), windows blown out.

There are several huge honking trees near me that could easily be toppled and fall on my place (that's actually my number 1 concern that I'm powerless to prevent).

At the very least, I anticipate loosing power here. Even if the storm hits with minimal intensity, it's pretty much guaranteed that the juice will go out... possibly for days or longer.

I purchased a small generator a couple of years ago mostly to keep the heat and hot water running during the Winter in the event of a power loss.

A few years ago... a massive ice storm hit Western Massachusetts... people were without power for weeks.

Many people had small generators running to keep themselves and house from freezing, guess what... generator thefts became commonplace.

So, yeah... being able to prevent the theft of a highly sought after commodity would be comforting to me.

In short... the house could be left wide open to theft.

If possible... I'd like to prevent that.

Again... this is all dependent on the severity of the storm, so the best I can do for now is hunker down and prepare for the worst.

[jmg257]

188. I can understand that - if the roof blew off my house in the middle of a hurricane,

I sure would be glad the AR was all primed for action, the Glock was right next to my pillow, AND the shotgun was loaded for bear (or deer). Of course having an extra ammo can or 2 for each easily accessible would be a great comfort too...nothing like cold iron and lots of ammo to keep you all warm and fuzzy while the winds and rains blow portions of your house in around you.

And afterwards, someone might not know really how prepared you were and think your house was easy pickins! Just maybe though they'd notice the comfort level, the pride in your stride as you walked around your yard so well-prepared to defend your stuff. If they get close enough that is - I imagine the FAL will come in handy then - take people out before they even get into handgun range? Why take chances? An ammo can or 2 later - you could be sure that all of Boston got the message not to fuck with YOU!

Being in NY, I was in that snow/ice storm...no power for 8 days. Luckily I don't have to worry much about people stealing my generator. In fact, no oppurtunity to squeeze off a few rounds materialized at all, though shoveling all that snow was a major bitch.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

53. AR-10 (.308 AR) ... 12ga Mossberg Pump Shotgun ... Glock 19 (with a bunch of 30rnd mags & silencer)

Just your typical sporting/hunting firearms.
People wouldn't believe how expensive it is to load up just a few 30rnd mags with Federal HST hollowponts.

[Hoopla Phil]

91. You bought a Gemtech???

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

121. LOL, well I got it @ $200 discount when first came out and the quietest 1.25" can on the market.

Since then, there have been a number of quieter 1.375" cans on the market (TiRant, Osprey, Mystic) but for a slim dedicated pistol can it really performs great. i wanted a smaller profile suppresser because I feel the bigger 1.375" suppressors are too big/bulky on midsized guns. Plus, I got the can from Gemtech during their annual "tax-free" promotion where they pay the $200 tax stamp for you.

A buddy of mine has a SWR Trident and the sound difference is only noticable shooting next to each other. With 147s it's still very quiet. I'm happy with it and would reccomend t to people looking for the smaller lighter desogns for pistol use. I plan getting something bigger like a Mk9K or Mystic for the bigger 9mm guns (rifle/smg).

[Hoopla Phil]

147. There really is nothing wrong with them. I was just trying to make a funny

on the whole AAC/Gemtech deal. Truth is, I don't have any store bought suppressors. I made all mine on Form 1's.

[ileus]

163. That's a long poker you've got there....super duper intimidation factor.

[Zenlitened]

72. K&R for epic hilarity.

What are your "go to guns" in the event of a natural disaster?

Satirizing of paranoid fantasy-type thinking, I'd hope.

Posted from just outside Boston, no less?

:spray:

[Hoyt]

81. These folks are deadly serious.

[Abin Sur]

86. Be prepared

[Hoyt]

102. Not requiring proof to contrary, but I bet yours looks much like that -- figuratively at least.

I may use that imagine sometimes -- like with some of my anal-retentive friends/enemies.

[SteveM]

187. LOL!

In Florida, my family stocks up on TP, a Radioflyer wagon full of plastic gallon jugs of water, bathtubs full of water, canned food, charcoal, repellent, batteries, two-way radios, chainsaw, and a .38 w/ammo.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

144. I think some of them are posting tongue in cheek to elicit a horrified response from you and others

You are playing along well and looking in some cases the fool for it. Some of the others may be coming close to concrete pizza time.

[ileus]

153. yeah this is the king of troll threads.

[SteveM]

189. OH, not "tongue in cheek" after that picture! nt

[spin]

110. Have you ever lived through a hurricane?

When the winds reach a certain level, the emergency responders do not come to your aid.

After the storm is over, they you may not be able to call for help and even if you can, there is no guarantee that the police can reach you as the roads may be underwater or blocked by fallen trees.

Quite often the National Guard is called in to patrol the streets and protect citizens against looters. It may take them several days to get set up and on patrol.

New Orleans Gets More Troops to Stop Katrina Looting (Update5)
By Heather Burke - September 2, 2005 00:33 EDT

Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- About 24,000 National Guard members will be in Louisiana and Mississippi by the end of the week to combat looting and quell gunfire that disrupted the rescue of survivors of Hurricane Katrina.

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said today at a news conference that 1,400 will go to New Orleans daily for the next three days, expanding a force of 3,000 that's trying to maintain order in a city flooded and left without power by the storm three days ago.emphasis added

Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said National Guardsmen from Arkansas were prepared to use deadly force as they try to restore order in New Orleans, the Times-Picayune reported.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=axLmRQqK.K0U&refer=us

Thieves plunder in Charley's aftermath
By WILL VAN SANT
Published August 16, 2004

PUNTA GORDA - After the hurricane ended, the looting began.

***snip***

The fear of looting is so widespread, many residents are staying in their damaged homes to protect their valuables. Emergency shelters have far fewer people than officials had expected given the extensive damage in Charlotte County.

***snip***

In areas hit by Hurricane Charley here, a curfew from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. was in effect Sunday night to combat theft.

Carpenter said 50 to 60 of his officers would patrol the streets, aided by 1,500 National Guard troops sent to the area, as well as personnel from other agencies.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/16/Weather/Thieves_plunder_in_Ch.shtml

If you decide to ride out a hurricane in your home, having firearms is reassuring afterward. You hope you never have to use them, but if you find yourself threatened by someone who intends to seriously hurt or kill you, it's good to have the means to defend yourself and your family. You may find that you are on your own.

[SteveM]

190. In 2004, my brothers took 3 days to chainsaw a cut to my folks house...

They were in their 80s at the time, but had plenty of supplies. They were in the "wilds" of N. Central Florida, across the lake from U. of F.

[Hoopla Phil]

88. I'm formally on the Texas coast. My input

I have a MAK-90 that is very reliable that would come out of the safe for the occasion. The Mossburg 500A would also be at the ready with 00 buck. My sidearm would be a Para Ordnance P-14 with extended mags that hold 16 rounds.

Keep in mind that I also have my food and water provisions taken care of. The only thing I really lack is a generator.

[MyrnaLoy]

115. lack of a generator

which could have been purchased for the price of the para. Glad you're not my Dad.

[Remmah2]

133. I've been through two hurricanes.

Toilet paper would be just as important.

[PavePusher]

135. A generator is, for most people, a convenience....

not a neccesity. Depending on one's location/circumstances, being prepared for defense of property may be more important than having electric lights.

Edit: Generators are also prime targets for theft. Just something to add to the risk assesment.

[X_Digger]

138. My wife uses a CPAP at night.. so a generator is a must.

Her insulin also has to remain cold, so we have a mobile refrigerator that can run on 12v or 110v.

[PavePusher]

140. As I said, circumstances.

I plan to get one capable of running my 'fridge and freezer, for the expanded food storage options.

[Hoopla Phil]

151. Damn, hadn't realized that about your situation. I remember a story my mom

told me about when she was a kid and went through a hurricane in the 50's. They had a natural gas run refrigerator and kept the neighborhoods special perishables - like baby formula and such.

Like I said up thread, it is a matter of priorities.

[ileus]

221. I have probably 2.5-3k of food in the freezers and fridge....

a small investment in a generator already paid off this spring when we lost power for about 15 hours. Probably not long enough to lose anything but it was nice firing up the generator and going to work the next morning.

[Hoopla Phil]

149. Just priorities. My food and water needs are taken care of. Having a running A/C

is just a luxury. IMO a generator that cannot run the A/C is not worth having and that costs just a bit more than a para. I'm really glad you're not my daughter and I don't think anyone (you and me included) really gives a shit about such an asinine statement.

[friendly_iconoclast]

195. I'm *also* glad that I'm not your Dad.... n/t

[MyrnaLoy]

114. 5 Hurricaines and 2 tornados

in my lifetime and I never needed a gun. Needed water but never a gun. Wish we could nominate for stupidity in posts.

[petronius]

116. You should be careful what you wish for (nt)

[MyrnaLoy]

117. Not really

I'm sure the majority here at DU would wish for the same thing.

[petronius]

118. It amuses me that you apparently don't see the fatal flaw in your response

:shrug:

[MyrnaLoy]

119. glad

you get your jollies so easy.

[cleanhippie]

134. If we could, yours would win every time.

[PavePusher]

136. Your circumstances are not representative of everyones circumstances.

Unless, of course, you are willing to offer some kind of guarantee?

[Hoopla Phil]

152. But they were needed by some in New Orleans to stay safe and secure.

AND, I might add, they were used after hurricane Carla in Corpus Christi. Yep, we should have nominations for stupidity in posts. Some think just cause THEY didn't need something, nobody else will.

[spin]

159. In my opinion, it is best to be prepared ...

and have a method of self defense and not need it than to be unprepared and have no method of self defense.

I don't consider being prepared stupid. In all likelihood it will be unnecessary to own firearms for self defense after a hurricane or a tornado.

But as I am sitting here tying, there is a fire extinguisher ten feet away. I have never had to use one to put out a house fire but that doesn't mean having one is stupid.

[Atypical Liberal]

124. Firearms for emergencies.

In my opinion, everyone should have a shotgun, a rifle, and a pistol. This will allow you to hunt any kind of game, and also provide for defense.

If you can only choose one, go with the shotgun. With slugs, it can function as a rifle out to 100 yards, and it is fine for emergency defense.

In an emergency, concealability is not going to be a major concern, so the main advantage of the pistol is negated. As such, I say a pistol is the least necessary in an emergency like civil unrest.

In any case, whatever the firearm, you want the maximum ammunition capacity possible. For a shotgun, this is around 8 rounds. For a rifle, you would want an assault rifle capable of carrying 20+ rounds. The AK or AR platforms are ideal for this.

[ileus]

127. I do have a Sub-2000 pretty handy.

[Endangered Specie]

223. I have to disagree, I think a pistol is the MOST important 'civil unrest' defensive weapon

Law and Order will have to break down REAAAAL bad before you can openly carry a rifle/shotgun around, at least in any area not completely rural. You are going to have to go out some.

A concealed handgun can be presented alot faster than any rifle or shotgun (how long does it take you to get your slung rifle off your back and safety off versus draw a pistol). If you are in a car, which do you think you'd be faster at deploying and using: hand gun or long gun.

Most encounters where you'd need to use the gun in self defense are going to be very close range, harder for the criminal to grab your handgun than a long gun.

A pistol allows you a free hand to do other things with (open doors, hold onto something/someone, lose an arm due to injury, etc...)

Now, a shotgun or rifle makes a great "home base" defense gun far better than any pistol, but even then you'd want that pistol to back you up.

In summary, get your handgun down pat first.

If you needed a gun to hunt, a 22 rifle will do you just fine, small game is the order of the day in a short term survival situation IMO. There is plenty of very quiet 22 ammo so 1000 people don't hear you. Be discreet.



My 2 cents, YMMV.

[Atypical Liberal]

228. Civil unrest = no law and order.

When I say "civil unrest", I mean like the LA riots, or post-Katrina.

There will be no "going out" at such times. The idea of "bugging out" is ridiculous for most people. All of my emergency preparedness supplies are at home. Far more than I could ever carry for myself and my family. The idea is to guard your property and family. A high-capacity rifle is best suited for that task.

[jmg257]

230. This is where a pistol caliber carbine looks attractive.

Something like a Beretta CX Storm (or even an M1 Carbine). High capacity mags (interchangable with your handgun), accuracy/rounds effective to 75 yds or so, bullets that won't go blasting through your walls like a rifle round will. Handy enough in close quarters.

[Atypical Liberal]

237. I have one of those.

I have a CX4 in 9mm.

However, a 9mm will go through many layers of sheetrock. Check out the truthbox web site.

[slackmaster]

125. My 17-year-old niece is home alone in the path of the storm at the moment

She has a Ruger 10/22 rifle at her disposal. Her mom will get back home some time this morning.

[spin]

150. I remember a gun store owner telling me about his daughter ...

who was about the same age as your niece.

She was alone at home one night in her rural home when some fool attempted to bust the door down. She grabbed an M1 carbine with a 30 round magazine and put all 30 rounds through the door.

The store owner agreed with me that her tactic wasn't the best to use in the situation. He pointed out that it did scare off the intruder.

[RSillsbee]

233. Bet she suffered permanent hearing loss NT

[ileus]

126. Well considering I'm near Bristol....I bought petrol.

Went out and bought gas last night. My biggest problem this weekend is going to be race traffic...

If the Hurricane does make a wrong turn I'm ready


I did clean the 45 and 380 last night since my DSL was dead all evening.

I started up the generator and snow blower a couple of weeks ago.

I charged the battery on the jeep and kicked it out of the garage two nights ago, I did tarp it. (Not ready to put the top back on yet.


I always keep 6 AR mags loaded just in case (3 for the wifes AR 3 for mine)


I don't have to check on the neighbors they all have much more preps than I do.


I do need to pick up some more 7.62 for my sons SKS Right now I only have 1300 rounds.

[GreenStormCloud]

137. I've been through 4 hurricanes and a typhoon.

Looters aren't combat soldiers seeking to take an objective. They are cowards looking for easy stuff to grab. Just about any gun will do. Best is a repeating shotgun. My choice would be a Siaga 12 gauge. But a Ruger 10/22 will suffice to sent 99% of looters running away, no shots fired. Any pistol worn open carry would do as a backup for the long gun.


Siaga 12 gauge shotgun. Siaga is the Russian company that made the first AK-47s. Obviously the shotgun is patterned after the AK design.

[ileus]

139. a few years back they were 650, now what 900? some places?

I have a friend with a SBR'd siaga 12. Stick his drum on it and 20 rounds go down range in seconds, pretty impressive.

[-..__...]

148. Yep... I could kick myself in ass for not buying one...

when they were relatively inexpensive.

Some of Tony Rumores/Tromix conversions are impressive, but waaaaay out of my price range (and that's with a customer supplied firearm)...

http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

[ileus]

157. Same here....I should have listened to my dealer.

[oneshooter]

169. All you would need now is a suppressor for it. n/t

[ileus]

156. Question is do you have special loads or FMJ's???

[benEzra]

158. I may be offline for a few days...I have a big bullseye on my house right now.

The eye of Irene is currently projected to pass right over casa de benEzra tomorrow as it hits NC, and I'm pretty sure we'll be without power for a few days.

As far as guns, everybody here pretty much knows what I own (ZOMG eeevill assault weppins!!!!) but you won't see any unrest here. We'll be busy cleaning up for a bit, though.

Best wishes for those of you up the coast from us, too. This thing could dump a bunch of water on NYC, and at least we don't have to worry about subways and tunnels flooding where I'm at.

[Hoopla Phil]

166. Good luck and stay safe. REMEMBER,

when the calm starts that's just the eye moving over. It is going to start up again and be just as bad - but from the other direction. DON'T go outside to check things out, wait till the whole thing has passed.

[ileus]

167. good luck and stay safe.

[SteveM]

193. Good luck. Wish we could get some of your water for Texas. nt

[benEzra]

214. I can bottle you some! But postage on twenty thousand pounds might be prohibitive.

FWIW Irene has weakened to only a Cat 1; we'll probably come out of this with little or no damage. There is an immense difference in damage potential between a 90mph storm and a 125mph storm (it's exponential, not linear, IIRC).

[SteveM]

239. To hear MSM, the whole Eastern seaboard is about to sink...

on exponential forces, we had Miami (brand) jalousies installed in our Florida room when growing up in Gainesville. They were rated at 110 mph, but would not stop stuff we kids managed to throw at them. I learned to cut and glaze glass at an early age.

[GreenStormCloud]

209. Enjoy the eye if it passes over and is a clear eye in daylight..

It is an awesome sight to look up at a clear sky above and a wall of clouds whirling above you.

[benEzra]

212. Yeah, it is an awesome sight. I have only been in an eye once,

in hurricane Erin in 1995. I went out in the yard during the eye and it was uncanny.

[AtheistCrusader]

160. In New Jersey, the correc tanswer is 'none' while a state of emergency is in effect.

[benEzra]

179. That'd be the case in NC, except Gov. Perdue (D) explicitly protected RKBA in her pronouncement.

http://www.governor.state.nc.us/NewsItems/ExecutiveOrderDetail.aspx?newsItemID=1983

This order is adopted pursuant to my powers under Article 1 of Chapter 166A of the General Statutes and under Article 36A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes. It does not trigger the limitations on weapons in G.S. § 14-288.7 or impose any limitation on the consumption, transportation, sale or purchase of alcoholic beverages.

[apocalypsehow]

162. "Anyhow... the AR is good to go." Some things just satirize themselves. n/t.

[iverglas]

205. oh, I know ...

but I was the only one around and I felt obliged to say something, just out of courtesy. ;)

[spin]

218. Let me inject a little humor ...

Don't ever say that gun owners can not laugh at themselves...


The Redneck Guide to Emergency Preparedness
http://uscca.us/ccr/view_post.php?postId=465

Yes, I have often been called a redneck. It's not necessarily an insult.

[rrneck]

220. +1000

I may have three letters after my name, but I started out life a tractor jockey and my redneck cred is still in tact.

[krispos42]

243. Okay, that was funny

:rofl:

[ileus]

229. squirrel is always on the menu ...

[Glassunion]

241. Well, here I sit. The rain has just started and I believe that I am as prepared as I can be...

Some of my steps...
Bathtub is full for sanitary purposes
Car is fully gassed up if we need to leave
Plenty of non-perishible food stocked in the kitchen
Plenty of hardwood charcoal for the grill if needed(doubtful we have natural gas)
5 full camp stove gas containers(I camp a lot, so I usually have a stock of them)
Kyacks are accesible if needed
My radio has 5 sets of batteries charged and is scanning emergency channels
No less than 40 candles throught the house(this is normal, don't ask)
Pets have enough food for weeks
Plenty of batteries for the weather radio
Board Games are accesible
I have done nothing out of the ordinary with my firearms, 2 pistols(my wife's and my own) are accesible. The rest are locked in the safe as usual.

If anyone is in the area and needs a place to stay dry, we have plenty of food and entertainment... :)

Let's just hope it moves more towards the east... When I moved up here, one of my hopes was to get away from these things. David and Andrew sucked...

[RSillsbee]

242. I live in Colorado . It's kind of a given that we're going to get snowed in.

So we do have some preps going

2 propane heaters and (at last count) 40 cans of propane

Coleman propane stove (see above)

Charcoal grill and plenty of charcoal

Water's not an issue we have a well.

2 rechargeable lanterns (the kind you can hand crank in an emergency)

Hand crank radio does short wave too.

First aid kit

Food (we could stop shopping right now and eat for about a year)

We deliberately went w/out a generator because it just makes you a target.

Multiple handguns All our handguns were bought w/ self/home defense in mind

Ruger PC4 Carbine ( 2 of my carry guns are .40 S&W so is the Ruger)

Mini14 and multiple evil 20 round magazines.

Library full of books and games

Aside from snow our other concern here is someone trying to nuke Cheyenne Mountain in which case I really won't have anything to worry about ever again.

[Name removed]

245. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[-..__...]

248. First rule of "Looter Shooters Club"...

don't talk about "Looter Shooters Club".

[jpak]

246. Water-cooled Browning .50 cal with 500000000 rounds of linked ammo - No Superdome in my Castle!!!111

Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica Attica

Oh yeah

What a stupid post

:thumbsdown:

[ileus]

247. storm was a big pussy cat...think I'll take the kids shooting this evening.

[benEzra]

249. Got power back around lunchtime today.

About 36 hours without power, but at least we still had running water, lamps, and the ability to cook hot food, so it wasn't too bad. We got a little flooding but it dissipated quickly because the ground and drains were so dry. We got some wind damage, though; I just filed my first-ever claim with my homeowners' insurance, for roof damage (peeled my shingles off in a dozen spots). Also lost part of a picket fence. I wouldn't have expected that from a category 1 storm, but I think it was the sheer duration that did it. T-mobile's cell network went down just after the storm passed, so we were thrown back to the days when the only connection you had with the outside world was a landline and a radio. And you can't text on a landline, dernit.

On the upside, it lasted long enough for me to discover that I like bacon-flavored Spam, slow-cooked over Sterno since the camp stove requires more ventilation than the weather permitted at times. It's hard to find that out any other way...

Spent this afternoon cutting broken branches off our pecan tree and cutting them up for disposal, and cut some for my neighbor across the street as well. Definitely got my money's worth out of the chainsaw this time.

I always have mixed feelings about hurricanes now...I want them to put on a good show, but I want them to be over quickly and not do much damage. Those things are kind of mutually contradictory. :D

[oneshooter]

251. If the pecan limbs are large enough then keep them. They make some fine tastin BBQ. n/t

[gejohnston]

252. butane camp stove

safer and greener for indoor use.

[benEzra]

253. You're probably right....Sterno is gelled methanol, yes?

It burns pretty thoroughly, but I know methanol is not a metabolically happy compound.