Bush backer with CCW permit shoots up carwash in MI --video

[Bozita]

Bush bumper sticker is shown in the closing moments of the video.


URL: http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_2652847,00.html

Carwash Argument Erupts In Shooting

By Kimberly Craig
Web produced by Christine Lasek
February 13, 2004

An argument between customers at a Taylor carwash erupted in gunfire Friday morning.

The carwash is back open, and investigators are interviewing witnesses, as well as the 65-year-old suspect who fired the shots.

The argument began when carwash workers told drivers to back up their vehicles, because one car could not go through the carwash. The 65-year-old suspect did not back up his Cadillac, and another customers began yelling at him.

Witnesses say the suspect exited his car in order to confront the other customer, who then pushed the 65-year-old man to the ground. Witnesses report that the 65-year-old man showed that he had a gun, and all present took cover. Seconds later, there was gunfire. Apparently, the 65-year-old man fired about 6 shots at the other customer, who dodged the bullets by diving into his car and driving away.

more...

[trotsky]

1. Guns make us all safer!

:eyes:

[demsrule4life]

22. If your namesake would of used a gun

he might have defeated the guy with the ice-axe.

[Gman]

2. Just exactly the reason the RW'ers think they need the right to carry

a concealed weapon. Just in case someone wants you to back up in a car wash.

[Bozita]

3. This is why I'm concerned for Mari333

scary

[tobius]

4. or, in case someone physically assaults you. n/t

[cardlaw]

5. A person

is only allowed to use REASONABLE force to protect his person. Being shoved to the ground does not present a danger such that gunfire is warranted.

[tobius]

7. true. And if convicted should pay the price. n/t

[Hrumph]

16. Really?

This guy was 65. How old was his attacker? What chance does the average 65-year old man have to defend himself against the average 30-year old man? At what point is deadly force justified? Should one have to suffer a debilitating injury first? Say, an injury that would result in incapicitation or the loss of consciousness? What good is the right to self-defense if you are only allowed to exercise it AFTER you've been mortally wounded?

This report does NOT tell the whole story. Everyone took cover when they saw the gun. Then they reported HEARING gunfire. I take it, then, that no one actually SAW what happened after the gun was produced. It is entirely possible that the other individual produced a weapon of some kind, is it not?

But no, we can't allow ourselves to think about such things, can we? Oh NO! We have to imediately point the finger of blame!

And no where did I see ANYTHING that linked any particular vehcile with the man arrested. All the video was taken at the car wash AFTER the shooter had left except for the interview and there were NO vehicles in that footage at all. Yet, somehow, someone says they see Bush bumpersticker (I didn't see it but perhaps the resolution on my monitor is too high) and we just KNOW that it belongs to the shooter.

Wha... WHAT????

[alwynsw]

26. The jury's out on that

AZ, my former home, for example states that a person must have reasonable fear for life and limb. Depending upon the circumstances, an assault, whether provoked or not, on a 65 year old may place that 65 year old in reasonable fear of his life or limb.

[diamond14]

14. must have been one of those GIANT oversized SUV's that couldn't

fit into the carwash....

wow....it's a good thing that Metro-Detroiters are conditioned to 'take cover' as soon as the guns come out....

[slackmaster]

24. Please read the article and watch and listen to the video

Then see if you can honestly say you have enough information to declare that the shooter was not justified in his actions.

[alwynsw]

25. That's OK for right wingers

What about we progressives who carry? There are more than you likely imagine.

[drdigi420]

6. this isnt about the guns

this is about the instability of freepers and their propensity for violence

blaming the gun is like blaming the pen and paper for anne coulter's ravings

religion kills more ppl than guns, should we ban that too? it would make more sense, but wouldnt be right, ppl have the right to be delusional in this country, whether about Iraq or about 'god'

[ComerPerro]

8. Well, I agree, however

I think it illustrates that conceal and carry may be a bad idea.

[Gman]

10. Good point. Just like a gun in a freeper's hand

a pen and paper in Coulter's hands are dangerous. Both should be prohibited from owning either.

[alwynsw]

30. Think about that post for a moment

Please say that you're being sarcastic. I'd hate to think that a member of DU would advocate the abridgement of any civil rights for anyone - let alone two in one post.

[alwynsw]

27. Good post

blaming the gun is like blaming the pen and paper for anne coulter's ravings

I've tried to watch the video for the Bush bumper sticker and can't make it out. Are some of us possibly jumping to conclusions. Freepers aren't the only ones who do bad things.

[northzax]

9. and it's nice to see

that MI requires extensive training before you can get a CCW, after all, he managed to fire six warning shots to chase off his antagonist, SIX.

what, they weren't warning shots? he couldn't hit the guy from a couple of feet away even one out of six times?

[alwynsw]

29. Excellent point

I usually hit where I aim - or damned close to it.

[Tactical Progressive]

11. What I want to know is what about the children?

What about the innocent children who could have been killed with stray bullets and ricochets? Shouldn't we be protecting the children from gun-crazy right wingers? I mean, think of a child traumatized by two seconds of a pastied nipple viewed from long range during a half-time show. Then after that, they walk out onto the street to be subjected to getting hit by bullets from an angry citizen defending his right not to have to back up in a car wash.

Surely parents have a right to be almost as upset at the danger posed to children by bullets flying everywhere in public, as they do to the danger posed to our children by an only partially-covered nipple.

Doesn't anybody care about the children?

[BiggJawn]

12. did the article mention children?

It's customary here to indicate sarcasm or irony in our posts by the use of these indentifiers
<sarcasm>
<irony>

Good thing he had a gun, he might have otherwise tried to run people down with his big hog 12 MPG caddy....<sarcasm>

[demsrule4life]

18. Speaking of that

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0402160091feb16,1,5595556.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[diamond14]

13. "....very patriotic man retired from the oil industry." ....holy smokes!

good thing that Metro Detroiters are conditioned to 'take cover' as soon as the guns come out....and of course, don't forget to BLAME the victims....take this reTHUGlican fanatical bush* supporter and LOCK HIM UP and throw away the key....


"The nephew of the 65-year-old man, who wished to remain anonymous, told Action News, "I don’t know what happened. I just came down here right now. I went down to the police station, I wanted to see him and talk to him. He is an antique gun dealer. He has his license and a CCW permit and carries a gun with him. Somebody either pulled a gun or did something bad to him to make him pull that gun out, because he would never do that." The nephew went on to say that the 65-year-old man is a very patriotic man retired from the oil industry."

[FatSlob]

15. I'm won't judge until the jury does.

Let's find out all the facts.

[RoeBear]

17. He didn't score any points by...

...leaving the gun in the car. Unless, by chance, he did that with advice from a lawyer.

[MrSandman]

34. Or leaving the scene...

Or trading a 2 1/2 ton weapon for a .25. He possibly forgot to deescalate and evade. This doesn't mean he was not in imminent danger when he did fire.

If anyone feels justified in such a situation, they are better off waiting for the police rather than mking them look for you.

[alwynsw]

28. I'm with you

"Innocent until proven guilty" is the bedrock of our criminal ljustice system. Regardless of the guy's political leanings, he deserves a fair and speedy trial. I'll abide by the verdict.

[RoeBear]

19. You must have better eyes than I do...

...where was the Bush bumper sticker?

[demsrule4life]

20. I was thinking the same thing

maybe because I don't have high speed?

[slackmaster]

21. Audio track on video clip says he had been shoved to the ground

That doesn't sound like a nice or wise thing to do to a 65-year-old man or to anyone else. This was not a case of someone responding to a verbal provocation with gunfire. There's a lot more to the story than we can see from the information provided here.

I'm going to withhold judgement until the criminal justice system has its say.

[alwynsw]

23. Uh, pardon me, but

there are anumber of progressives on this board who have CCW permits. Not all who engange in firearms activities are right-wingers.

I couldn't see the sticker. Does anyone have the capability to enlarge/enhance it s owe can all see? No photoshop "corrections", just enlarge/enhance.

[alwynsw]

31. Welcome to the Gungeon, guys

You only THOUGHT things got heated in GD 2004.

[demsrule4life]

32. Are things heated there?

I don't meet the rules to post there.

[alwynsw]

33. Just a tad warm for some

[skippythwndrdog]

35. I can't make out the sticker

Can anyone enlarge it?

[Wickerman]

36. I am locking this thread

Bush bumper sticker is shown in the closing moments of the video.

Sorry, the Cadillac was never in the footage. The reporter said the police found the vehicle at the home of the suspect, along with the gun. the reporter arrived at the Car Wash after the fact and never ventured to the home of the accused. Perhaps the video has been edited, but the Caddy ain't in the video.