I went to a gun show last weekend. One vendor's product intrigued me, and I ended up buying...

[slackmaster]

...A grid-tied photovoltaic power system for my house.

A salesman gave me an hour-long spiel at my house Wednesday evening. I tentatively agreed to an installation. On Thursday, he returned with his manager and a lead installer who is an expert on all phases of the project. They certified my roof as sound, and my electrical system workable provided that I upgrade from my old 100-amp panel to a 200-amp one, which I needed to do anyway.

At the risk of being criticized for a subject that is technically OT for the Guns forum (to which I plead guilty and accept any consequences), I thought some people might be interested to learn that a lot of things other than fragmentation grenades, anti-tank rockets, anti-government literature, and full-auto conversion kits are sold at gun shows. When I go to a gun show I always take a look at every display to see what people have to offer. There are always what I call "slicer/dicer" demos for everything from kits to braze aluminum with a propane torch to eyeglass cleaning products and Native American jewelry.

A gun show is a microcosm of your basic county fair with a focus on firearms, tools, and things you might generally call "guy stuff". One thing that you always see at the Del Mar Fair every year that you won't find at the quarterly gun shows at the same venue is the John Birch Society. Some of the people here who have strong biases about what "type" of people attend gun shows might be surprised to see how many companies are pushing green technologies.

It will take 6-8 weeks for permits to get pulled. Once that is done the entire installation should take one day, probably in April. Then I can tell San Diego Gas & Electric to eat my juice and pay me for it.

:D

[wtmusic]

1. Without a background check, I suppose

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

[slackmaster]

6. Actually they are checking my homeowner's insurance, and searching for liens on my property

They want to make sure they can collect from me.

[arcane1]

2. IMO every penny you spend on installation should be tax-refundable

in a sane world, it would be!

[sharesunited]

3. The electric meter runs backwards. Too bad bullets can't be sucked back into barrels.

[slackmaster]

8. It's true that you can't un-shoot someone or something, but bullets can be recycled

By melting them down and casting them into new bullets. Most brass cartridge cases can be reloaded many times.

[Atypical Liberal]

32. I recycle my lead and brass.

To make my own ammo...

[inademv]

4. Not terribly surprised

Gun shows typically attract SHTF kinds of merch and enthusiasts.

[slackmaster]

7. I'm getting a grid-tied system, which will shut itself down if street power goes off

Not really suitable for SHTF. That would require an "off-grid" system, or just a Honda generator.

[inademv]

19. I thought on the grid

was where it would feed back to your line when it was providing more power than was being used.

[slackmaster]

20. Correct. Grid-tied = on the grid. Off-grid = you have backup batteries.

I'm not sure, but I believe you can get a system that both feeds excess into the grid and has battery backup.

I have no need for batteries except for computers, and I have a dedicated UPS for those. It's saved me from ungraceful crashes several times.

[Control-Z]

23. SHTF?

What's that?

[RSillsbee]

25. It means when The Shit Hits The Fan

IE the zombie apocalypse . L.A. riots , Katrina

[slackmaster]

40. A Zombie Apocalypse would actually be an example of TEOTWAWKI

The End Of The World As We Know It; as would a large asteroid hitting the Earth.

The L.A. Riots were indeed an example of SHTF. I know several Angelinos who bought guns after that one. One was shocked to learn that California has a waiting period for gun buyers. He changed his attitude about gun control in a big way.

The most likely SHTF scenario I am planning for is a catastrophic earthquake.

HTH

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. "A gun show is a microcosm of your basic county fair "

Which is a microcosm of a State Fair, which is a microcosm of a World's Fair, which, of course, is a microcosm of the entire cosmos itself which is a microcosm of the Baby Jesus who is a microcosm of the Holy Trinity and therefore guns are actually just God in a smaller form!

Cheers!

[mediator]

9. Sounds good but unless you have a very large house with virtually no

electrical devices, you probably won't be selling any surplus juice back to the 'lectric people. :D
(the best PV cells can produce, on a good clear day, about 150 watts per square meter)

[slackmaster]

11. I'm getting a minimal system - 1.4 KW - that is expandable

My roof has room for up to about 4 KW of cells, with a nearly perfect south-southeast exposure and no possibility of getting shaded by a neighbor's tree or home improvement project. I also have a patio cover that could be replaced by a platform that could hold about another 40 square meters of solar panels. That adds up to way more power than I could ever use, including an all-electric car. But it doesn't make sense to buy too large of a system, because you can't sell back an unlimited amount (your electric bill can never go negative).

During the day it will provide more than enough to run my refrigerator, computers, aquarium pump, and things like loads of laundry and power tools. The surplus will run the meter backwards. At night I'll buy power back from the grid. I expect the net result to be an electric bill reduced from about $75-80 per month down to the $5 recurring connection fee most months.

I opted for an inverter that will handle up to 2.5 KW, so expanding it would require only adding panels.

I'm expecting about a 7-8 year break-even, with 10 years as a worst case. If things go right, by my 60th birthday I'll have the house paid off and a solar power system delivering essentially free energy.

[mediator]

13. Well, really do wish you the best. My medium size/normal sort of house rarely sucks less than 2 KW

on average. You do realize that most refrigerators eat up a few hundred watts when the compressor is running, yes? And what about batteries, they don't last forever. Anyway I hope it works out as well as you expect! :D

[slackmaster]

14. There will be no batteries in my grid-tied system

I've got it covered.

Refrigerators consume the most power when it's warm, i.e. when the Sun is high and a PV system is working best.

A friend of mine is considering going solar as well. He has a wife and a swimming pool, which has a pump that runs 24/7. That plus their refrigerator and about three computers that he runs constantly adds up to quite a bit higher power consumption than mine.

The power bills here have a tiered rate structure. You pay about 7.25 cents per KWH for the first tier, then 9.something for the next. If I were to go over 500 KWH in a month, they'd charge me about 13 cents per KWH over 500. There's another tier beyond that where it gets ridiculously high.

If the solar system keeps me completely out of the high rate tiers, it's doing its job. I'd like to add air conditioning eventually, and it may even become necessary as I get older.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. 1.4KW is kinda of light for most houses, even in the San Diego area

The payment for excess power is also pretty minimal. That said you payback expectations are about right.

I have a much larger installation, most of which came with the property. I upgraded it with some additional used panels. I am making money off of it.

SCE just announced a recall/serious issue with some inverters. Make sure yours is not on that list.

[slackmaster]

17. Thanks. I plan to see how it goes for a year, then bump it up to 2.5 if needed

:toast:

[Atypical Liberal]

34. How much did it cost?

I also have a south-facing roof. Although my HOA doesn't allow solar panels on roofs.

[slackmaster]

36. After tax rebates, it's just over $13K including the electrical service upgrade

All parts, labor, sales tax, and permits included.

[old mark]

10. K&R- I once thought long and hard about buying a cardboard box

at a gun show for $65...It was for a Smith & Wesson Military & Police revolver made in 1917, with a 6" barrel. I actually HAD that specific gun at the time. The box was in fair condition, had torn corners "repaired" with black electrical tape...I walked around and thought about it, and decided to buy it only to find it was gone.

They had hotdogs and root beer, and lots of books as well.

mark

[petronius]

12. Did you get the PV panels with the confederate flag design, or the ones

with the nazi flag design imprinted on them?

And don't try to kid us, everyone here knows that the only reason you want a PV system is to turn your home into a self-sufficient impregnable fortress from which you can gun down schoolchildren and kittens with impunity...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. Motorcycle shows are much the same except for the IMS show

[AtheistCrusader]

18. I got my sewing machine at a gun show.

Unfortunately, I'd love to do a solar system, but the most I can afford right now is some more insulation and caulk.

[hootinholler]

27. Is it full auto?

ratatat a tat...

Insulation and caulk is good. If you have a south facing window you can capture heat by placing a black piece of thin plywood over a window. Mount if fairly close like 3 inches to the glass or so and leave enough space at the top and bottom so it will vent and let the sun do its thing. You'll get a nice convection flow. If you set it up so you can control the size of the top vent, even better.

-Hoot

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. why is this getting un-recs?

:shrug:

[oneshooter]

26. Because it is in the Gun Rights Forum.

And they don't bother to even read the posts.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[slackmaster]

37. I probably would have Unrec'ced it myself if I hadn't posted it

Posting it here was hypocritical of me, but I did it anyway.

I'll post something in the E/E forum when there's something I can take pictures of.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. I've only been to one gun show.

It was very unlike the county fair, despite being held at the county fairgrounds.

A third of the people looked like this annual event is the only time they leave the house.

[jpak]

24. Cool - good fo you

:thumbsup:

[pipoman]

35. yup!

[onehandle]

28. Gun shows have all kinds of neat stuff.

http://washingtonindependent.com/37360/scenes-from-the-real-america

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

29. We got a grid tie some years back, wish we had gotten some batteries

Our power usually goes out a couple of times a year, though not usually for long. Last year it was out for a week and I wish we had batteries so I could have been online. Good luck with the system, I do enjoy mine. Just pay $5/month to have the meter read now. (If we could get paid to produce power I might add to the system.)

[mvccd1000]

30. Does SDGE have a "time-of-use" plan with different rates?

I'm on something like that. If the normal rate for electricity is .08/KWH, then when you get on the time-of-use plan the rates split; peak hours (5-9am and 5-9pm in the winter, 1-8pm in the summer) are billed at .16/KWH, while non-peak hours are billed at .04/KWH.

Assuming you generate the most electricity during peak hours, and then use grid-supplied power mostly during non-peak hours, it sounds like you'd really come out ahead quickly.

[slackmaster]

38. Not yet. They are in the process of deploying "smart" meters to make that possible.

Another good reason to deploy rooftop solar now, IMO. In this area peak usage generally coincides with peak sunshine, so they'll want to charge the highest rates precisely at the time I won't be buying their power.

When SDG&E starts billing that way, I doubt that they'll make it optional. It would be unlike them.

[mvccd1000]

41. Our plan was (is) optional.

When you sign up, they come and install the smart meter for free. Then on the bill each month, it shows a comparison of what your bill would have been if you were not on the time-of-use system.

I think the average savings is around $15/mo, so it seems to work out well for all involved. The utility benefits by having reduced demand during peak times, and I benefit by saving a few bucks just for scheduling my laundry and other high-usage activities during non-peak times.

[RSillsbee]

31. Did you get some Jerky and a sham wow too? NT

[slackmaster]

39. I did buy a 4-ounce can of OC spray, some gun cleaning brushes, and 500 rounds of .45 ACP ammo

That was all I felt like lugging out to the parking lot.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our first quarter 2011 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Click here to donate