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Police: Man kills 4 in stabbing rampage across NYC (Not having a gun didn't stop this madman)

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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 09:44 AM
Original message
Police: Man kills 4 in stabbing rampage across NYC (Not having a gun didn't stop this madman)
AP - This article is properly excerpted

NEW YORK – It apparently began, police said, when a 23-year-old graffiti artist asked his mother if he could drive her Lexus. She said no.

The ensuing fight between them escalated into a bloody 28-hour rampage across New York City as the man — armed with five knives — fatally stabbed his stepfather, ex-girlfriend and her mother, ran down a pedestrian in a stolen car, and slashed and wounded four other people before being arrested in a Times Square subway station, police said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110213/ap_on_re_us/us_stabbing_spree
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. How many more could he have easily killed...
if he'd had a gun?

You keep asking the wrong questions.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. 4 isn't enough?
Sheesh

:crazy:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. As usual...
you miss the point.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
73. As do you.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. missed the point- in Times Square? It could have been dozens in a few minutes
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 10:09 AM by bettyellen
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Did you respond to the wrong post? n/t
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. No, your flip suggestion about "4 being enough"is offensive to those
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 10:53 AM by bettyellen
who realise this rampage could have been much worse with a gun in this crowded city.
But maybe you were being sarcastic? Hard to say in the gungeon, where knives are the root of all evil.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The point being, sans guns, a madman will find a way to kill.
although we are constantly told, in this forum, that if guns weren't available, heinous crimes like this wouldn't be committed.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You don't think he could have killed far more people...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:01 AM by SDuderstadt
in a 28 hour rampage with a gun? Really?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. of course he knows. that's why he is laughably suggesting that four was the end all of horrors
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:26 AM by bettyellen
when.. we know from Tuscon and other recent events, it could have been another massacre.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. And I repeat, 4 ISN'T a massacre? What is YOUR definition?
How many have to die, in YOUR opinion, before an event qualifies as a massacre?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. in Times Square the potential was for dozens, why ignore or dispute that?
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. But it didn't. I could say the "potential" exists for someone to blow up
a Federal building and kill 168 people, I could say the "potential" exists for 500 Nigerians to be mercilessly slaughtered by machete

Everything is POTENTIAL. Fact is, it didn't happen. A guy with a knife did.

Stay on topic, would ya?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Do you seriously deny that he...
could've slaughtered far more people with a gun than a knife??

Your bullshit arguments aren't very convincing, dude.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I'm not arguing anything. The fact is, he DIDN'T use a gun so your
scenario is purely conjecture. If he fires a gun, MAYBE someone associated with this "graffiti artist" pulls a gun and fires back, MAYBE a cop is on their doorstep and can stop him.

Fact is, he didn't use a gun, he used a knife.

Try and stay on topic, would you?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bullshit...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 12:54 PM by SDuderstadt
my argument stands. That's why there are FAR more incidents of mass shootings.

You're in over your head, dude.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. bullshit. we are talking about a man w/ weapon in Times Square, YOU are desperate to get off topic
not I.

Relevant comparisons for you:



MASS GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2010

1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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1 Updated 12/23/2010



South San Francisco, CA ٠ 12/22/10. Two people were killed and four others wounded on a
street corner in the evening in a drive-by shooting.1

Sacramento, CA ٠ 12/14/10. A woman was killed and five others wounded in a gun battle at a
strip mall.2

Memphis, TN ٠ 12/12/10. Five men were shot at nightclub early in the morning because
someone was “pushing”.3

St.Louis, MO ٠ 11/30/10. Two people were killed and another two wounded outside a funeral
home in an on-going feud between local gangs.4

Cleveland, OH ٠ 11/28/10. An argument at a motorcycle club early in the morning lead to five
people being shot and one beaten.5

Richmond County, GA ٠ 11/28/10. Five people were shot at a club early in the morning.
Police believe several people are responsible for the shooting.6

Bonne Terre, MO ٠ 11/24/10. A man arrived at his ex-girlfriend’s apartment and opened fired,
killing his ex-girlfriend, her mother and that woman's boyfriend. He shot himself fatally when
confronted by officers. An 18-month-old and a 3-year-old were present during the shooting, but
left unharmed.7

Erie, PA ٠ 11/13/10. In an apparent murder-suicide, a man shot his wife, two daughters, and
himself to death.8

Atlanta, GA ٠ 10/30/10. Four people were hit in a drive-by shooting at a nightclub during a
Halloween party. One of the men and the bartender were shot in the head, and the two other
victims were transported to the hospital in stable condition.9


1
Peter Fimrite, 2 dead, 4 wounded in South San Francisco shooting, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, 22-Dec-10.
2
1 Dead, 5 wounded in shooting at Sacramento strip mall, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Dec-10.
3
Jody Callahan, 5 men injured in club shooting, MEMPHIS COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 12-Dec-10.
4
Nicholas Pistor, Two dead in shooting outside St. Louis funeral home, ST.LOUIS POST DISPATCH, 30-Nov-10.
5
Stan Donaldson, Six people injured after shooting at motorcycle club, CLEVELAND PLAIN-DEALER, 29-Nov-10.
6
Suspects sought after 5 people shot at club, AUGUSTA CHRONICLE, 29-Nov-10.
7
Police try to learn what spurred Duplex shootings, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 30-Nov-10.
8
Parents, 2 kids found shot to death in Western PA, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 13-Nov-10.
9
4 Shot in Atlanta Driveby, WSB-TV 2 ATLANTA, 30-Nov-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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2 Updated 12/23/2010

Chicago, IL ٠ 10/25/10. A man killed a woman, her nine-year-old daughter, another 16-year-
old girl, and her partner’s four-year-old son in an apartment.10

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 10/13/10. Five people were wounded in a shooting outside two
churches. The shooting is thought to be gang related.11

Boston, MA ٠ 9/28/10. Four people were shot to death on a street early in the morning,
including a 21-year-old woman and her two-year-old son cradled in her arms. The other two
male victims were found naked, sprawled on the ground. A third male also lay naked clinging to
life after attempting to flee. Law enforcement officials believe the shooting was possibly a drug
deal that went bad.12

East Orange, NJ ٠ 9/25/10. Five people were shot at an off-campus Seton Hall house party.
Students said the shooter was kicked out of the party when he refused to pay the cover
charge.13

Seattle, WA ٠ 9/23/10. A schizophrenic grandmother armed with a handgun killed her 14- and
17-year-old granddaughters and her 43-year-old son-in-law, and injured her 42-year-old
daughter14

Bay Shore, NY ٠ 9/11/10. After an argument, two people with handguns opened fire, injuring
five people outside a bar early in the morning.15

Chesapeake, VA ٠ 9/11/10. Two people opened fire on a group having a cookout in a park
next to a middle school. Four adults and a 14-year-old were injured.16

Lancaster, CA ٠ 9/6/10. At least one gunman opened fire at a crowded house party, killing a
14-year-old girl and injuring six others. The injured victims range in age from 13 to 26 years
old.17

New Orleans, LA ٠ 9/5/10. A woman was fatally shot in the head and four others were
wounded on a street corner.18

Durham, NC ٠ 9/5/10. Ten people inside a home were injured in drive-by shooting.19

Chicago, IL ٠ 9/2/10. Four men were fatally shot execution-style in garage. The men’s hands,
feet and mouths were bound with duct tape. Multiple weapons were found at the scene.20

10
3 Dead in Harvey Shooting: Two Children Fatally Shot, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Oct-10.
11
Carla Hinton, One dead, 5 wounded in northwest Oklahoma City shooting, THE OKLAHOMAN, 15-Oct-10.
12
City, Residents reeling after Mattapan slayings, BOSTON GLOBE, 28-Sep-10.
13
Witness Describes ‘Hell’ During Fatal Shooting Rampage at ‘Typical Fraternity Party’, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 26-
Sep-10.
14
Casey McNerthney, Family: Grandmother in shooting spree battled schizophrenia, SEATTLE POST-
INTELLIGENCER, 25-Sep-10.
15
Kaitlyn Piccoli, Five People Shot outside Bay Shore bar, LONG ISLAND PRESS, 9-Sep-10.
16
Jennifer Jiggets, Suspects sought in Chesapeake shooting that wounds 5, VIRGINIAN-PILOT, 13-Sep-10.
17
Detectives seek leads in Lancaster shooting that left girl, 14, dead and 6 others wounded, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 6-
Sep-10.
18
Rick Martin, 1 killed, 4 hurt in New Orleans shooting, CNN, 5-Sep-10.
19
10 wounded in Durham drive by shooting, WRAL - TV 4 RALEIGH/DURHAM, 10-Sep-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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www.bradycampaign.org
3 Updated 12/23/2010


Louisa, VA ٠ 8/22/10. At least four people were wounded and two killed when someone
opened fire over a property dispute. When police arrived, the suspect attacked police and they
killed him.21

Hartford, CT ٠ 8/3/10. A disgruntled employee who claimed he had been harassed because he
was African-American, opened fire at the beer distribution factory where he worked. He had just
attended a disciplinary hearing relating to his theft of beer from the company before the
shooting. He killed eight people and injured two before calling his girlfriend and then taking his
own life.22

Indianapolis, IN ٠ 8/3/10. Three men armed with an assault rifle and a handgun ambushed a
backyard birthday party and shot seven people. A 37-year-old woman and a 54-year-old man
died from their injuries. An eighth person was injured when someone at the party returned fire
at the shooters, but shot a bystander instead.23

Ft. Lauderdale, FL ٠ 7/30/10. Five people were shot outside of a nightclub.24

Dallas, TX ٠ 7/9/10. A man killed his pregnant girlfriend, their two kids and himself. He shot
their third child, age seven, in the face but she survived. He had a history of domestic violence
and the victim had a restraining order against him.25

Richmond, Va ٠ 7/3/10. Police responded to a call reporting random gunfire at a public-
housing complex. Officers found five people with gunshot wounds within two blocks.26

East Point, GA ٠ 6/26/10. At least two people began shooting when a fight broke out at a large
party at an apartment complex. Four people were injured and one was killed. The victims were
described as teens or younger adults.27

San Bernardino, CA ٠ 6/19/10. A 56-year-old man opened fire in a restaurant, killing his
stepdaughter's husband and their six-year-old son before fatally shooting himself in the head.
The man also critically wounded his stepdaughter and her 5-year-old son. Authorities said the
shooter had a lengthy criminal record that included charges of theft, DUI and assault with a
deadly weapon.28

Hialeah, FL ٠ 6/6/10. A Cuban immigrant, who had a clean record in the US, but had served
time in prison in Cuba, opened fire at the restaurant where his wife worked. He shot seven
women, killing four, before turning the gun on himself. The wife’s family claims he repeatedly
abused her.29

20
Relatives sat slaying of 4 men in garage a mystery, WGN- CHICAGO, 3-Sep-10.
21
Portia Smith, Louisa shootout leaves 3 dead, FREDERICKSBURG NEWS, 23-Aug-10.
22
Ray Rivera, Troubles Proceeded Connecticut Workplace killing, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-Aug-10.
23
Jon Murray, Murder charges filed against 3 in gunfight birthday party, INDIANAPOLIS STAR, 21-Aug-10.
24
Alexa Campbell, Police identify five victims shot outside Fort Lauderdale Night Club, PALM BEACH POST NEWS,
30-Jul-10.
25
Michael Barrett, Court records foreshadow day of four deaths in Dallas, GASTON GAZETTE, 12-Jul-10.
26
Jeremy Slayton, 5 wounded in Richmond shooting, RICHMOND TIMES-DISPATCH, 5-Jul-10.
27
Jay Black, 5 Shot, 1 Dead During Party in East Points, WSB NEWS RADIO ATLANTA, 27-Jun-10.
28
Victoria Kim, 2 people killed in Del Taco shooting are identified, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 19-Jun-10.
29
Shooter Had Violent Past, WSVN- TV 7 MIAMI, 11-Jun-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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(202) 898-0792 i
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FAX (202) 371-9615
www.bradycampaign.org
4 Updated 12/23/2010


New Brighton, MN ٠ 6/6/10. A gunman demanded money from people attending a three-year-
old’s birthday party a community shelter at a trailer park, and then opened fire, injuring four
people.30

West Memphis, AK ٠ 5/20/10. A man and his 16-year-old son opened fired on police officers
with assault weapons during a traffic stop, and then again in a shootout when police tried to
apprehend them after the first shooting. The two officers involved in the traffic stop were killed
and two officers in the second shootout were injured; the two suspects were killed by police in
the second shootout. The adult suspect had multiple run-ins with the law, and was considered a
threat to law enforcement before the shooting happened.31

Tuscaloosa, AL ٠ 5/16/10. A man fired a handgun at a graduation party where there were an
estimated 100 people in attendance. Nine people were struck by the gunshots, two of which
were wounded critically and one was killed. Witnesses said the shooter got into a physical fight
with another group, possibly involving gang affiliations.32

North Richmond, CA ٠ 5/13/10. Three men were killed and one man was injured in a drive-by
shooting. Two of them men were pronounced dead at the scene and a third died after being
taken to the hospital.33

Detroit, MI ٠ 5/3/10. Five officers were shot, one fatally, when they responded to a report of
gunshots at a vacant duplex where drugs were reportedly sold.34

Decatur, GA ٠ 4/15/10. Two people died and three others were injured when gunfire erupted in
a home. Police believe multiple people fired guns during the incident.35

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/14/10. Four people were killed, including three children, and two others were
injured in an early morning shooting.36

Muskogee, OK ٠ 4/10/10. An argument between two gangs lead to a shooting at a crowded
mall. A 17-year-old was killed and five others were injured.37

Long Beach, CA ٠ 4/5/10. A gunman opened fire on a group outside an apartment complex,
injuring four people, including two teenage girls. Police believe the shooting may have been
gang-related.38

Omaha, NE ٠ 4/4/10. A 19-year-old was charged with shooting four other teenagers in the
evening.39

30
4 injured in New Brighton shooting, suspect still at large, KARE - TV 11 MINNEAPOLIS, 6-Jun-10.
31
Zack McMillin and Marc Perrusquia, 2 police officers fatally shot in West Memphis, Arkansas, MEMPHIS
COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 22-May-10.
32
Stefanie Taylor, Three shooting victims were friends of suspect, TUSCALOOSA NEWS, 18-May-10.
33
3 killed, 1 hurt in Richmond shooting, San Francisco Chronicle, 13-May-10.
34
Michigan: 5 Officers Are Shot, One Fatally, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-May-10.
35
Multiple Shooting near Atlanta, 2 dead, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 16-Apr-10.
36
4 dead, 2 wounded in Chicago shooting, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 14-Apr-10.
37
Deon J. Hampton, Shooting at mall in Muskogee kills teen, TULSA WORLD, 11-Apr-10.
38
Joel Rubin, 4 people injured in Long Beach shooting, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 5-Apr-10.
39
Arrest Made in Multiple Shooting, WOWT-TV 6 OMAHA, 13-Apr-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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www.bradycampaign.org
5 Updated 12/23/2010


North Hollywood, CA ٠ 4/3/10. A gunman opened fire at a restaurant, killing four people and
injuring two others. Police believe the victims were targeted and Armenian gangsters are
responsible.40

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/2/10. Four people were shot on the street after midnight. As emergency
responders were taking the victims away, someone shot at police at the scene and injured two
bystanders.41

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/31/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, at a home. One person was
found dead outside while the other three were inside. Police believe the surviving victim may
have been the shooter.42

Aransas Pass, TX ٠ 3/31/10. A man shot five people in a mobile home. A 35-year-old woman
died from her injuries.43

Washington, DC ٠ 3/30/10. A 14-year-old and three men with an AK-47 assault rifle and two
handguns opened fire on a group of young adults gathered outside in the evening. Four
teenagers, aged 16, 17, 18, and 19, were killed and five other people were injured. Police
believe the shooting may have stemmed from a missing a bracelet or was retaliation for a
previous shooting.44

Chattanooga, TN ٠ 3/27/10. Three people, including a juvenile, are suspected of shooting five
people, including three juveniles, at Coolidge Park. The shooting happened as police were
clearing the park of the hundreds of people who had gathered at the park.45

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/25/10. A woman, her seven-year-old daughter, four-year-old son, and
17-year-old sister were each shot multiple times in their home. All four victims died.46

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 3/21/10. A man shot four people, including a juvenile and a pregnant woman,
outside a house early in the morning. The victims and shooter had argued earlier. The
pregnant victim delivered her baby, who was also wounded in the shooting, at the hospital.47

Chicago, IL ٠ 3/18/10. Four people, including a 14-year-old boy, were shot on the street at
night.48


40
Restaurant Shooting: Armenian Gangs Blamed for “Blood Bath” at L.A. Restaurant, KTLA- TV LOS ANGELES,
5-Apr-10.
41
Pat Curry, Six shot on South Side, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 2-Apr-10.
42
3 Killed, 1 Injured In Treme Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 31-Mar-10.
43
Elizabeth Noyola, Shooting in Aransas pass kills 1, 4 others hospitalized: Police search for killer, KZTV – TV 10
CORPUS CHRISTI, 1-Apr-10.
44
Clarence Williams, Keith L. Alexander & Paul Duggan, D.C. police trace shootings that killed 4 through chain of
events starting with a man's missing bracelet, WASHINGTON POST, 1-Apr-10.
45
3 arrested in shooting at park in eastern Tennessee, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 28-Mar-10.
46
Ramon Antonio Vargas, Mother, her two children and sister in grisly slaying mourned by family members, NEW
ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE, 26-Mar-10.
47
Mark Johnson, Baby born wounded as shooting injures 5, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL, 21-Mar-10.
48
4 people wounded in West Side shooting, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 18-Mar-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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6 Updated 12/23/2010

Winnsboro, SC ٠ 3/17/10. Two men shot four people during a robbery-attempt. The
homeowner fought the burglars who fired at several guests.49

Pomona, CA ٠ 3/13/10. A gunman opened fire on a group people at an outdoor party in the
courtyard of an apartment complex. Three men and two women were wounded.50

Detroit, MI ٠ 3/11/10. A gunman in an SUV opened fire with an assault weapon at another car,
hitting all four passengers. One man died and a two-year-old boy was critically injured.51

New York, NY ٠ 2/22/10. A man shot his wife and two teenage daughters to death with an
assault rifle before shooting and killing himself. He and his wife had been having marital
problems for a while before the shooting.52

Philadelphia, PA ٠ 2/21/10. One man died and three others were injured after being shot
outside a bar during a fight between two people.53

Huntsville, AL ٠ 2/12/10. A professor opened fire 50 minutes into a Biological Sciences
Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding
three others. The shooter had a history of violence: she shot and killed her brother in 1986,
was possibly involved in an attempted mail bombing, and was convicted of disorderly conduct,
and assault and battery in an incident in 2002. The gun used in shooting was bought from the
shooter’s husband in 1989 by a friend in New Hampshire to avoid a waiting period in
Massachusetts.54

Miami-Dade County, FL ٠ 1/24/10. Four men pulled up outside an apartment building and
opened fire on a group there, killing a 15-year-old girl and injuring three other people. The men
were armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and a shotgun.55

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 1/21/10. Five people, including a 20-year-old, were shot outside a tavern.
Police recovered shell casings from three weapons.56

Appomattox, VA ٠ 1/19/10. A 39-year-old man shot and killed his sister, her husband, their
two children, and four family friends in and around the family home. The man also shot at police
with an assault rifle when they arrived at the scene, and even shot a police helicopter six times,
bringing it down. The shooter, who first obtained a concealed carry permit in 1995, and owned
dozens of weapons, including “many” AR-15 assault rifles was badly affected by his mother’s

49
Tony Santaella, James Gilbert & Lauren Eleazer, 4 People Shot in Winnsboro, Suspects in Custody, WLTX –TV
19 COLUMBIA, 18-Mar-10.
50
Corina Knoll, Shooting in Pomona leaves 5 wounded, police say, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Mar-10.
51
Zlati Meyer, Man dead, toddler hurt in Detroit shooting, DETROIT FREE PRESS, 12-Mar-10.
52
Daniel Edward Rosen, Wil Cruz & Edgar Sandoval, Queens father fatally shoots wife, daughters, then turns gun
on self; leaves note that he's 'sorry', NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, 22-Feb-10.
53
Derrick Nunnally, 1 dead, 3 hurt in shooting at N. Phila. Bar, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER, 22-Feb-10.
54
Emanuella Grinberg, Judge sends Alabama university shooting case to grand jury, CNN, 24-Mar-10. Aaron
Cooper & Brooke Baldwin, Police: University shooting suspect was charged after fight in 2002, CNN, 17-Feb-10
55
Jennifer Lebovich, Police, family seek tips in teen's drive-by shooting death, MIAMI HERALD, 3-Feb-10.
56
5 Hospitalized After Milwaukee Tavern Shooting, WTAQ – RADIO WISCONSIN, 21-Jan-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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7 Updated 12/23/2010

death in 2006 and had reportedly become angry about ownership of the family house and land
that was left jointly to him and his sister.57

Bellville, TX ٠ 1/17/10. A 20-year-old man is charged with shooting and killing his mother,
stepfather, sister, brother and two-year-old niece at the family home. Police believe an “ongoing
family dispute” prompted the shooting.58

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 1/16/10. Five people were shot at a club, one fatally, late at night.59

Hernando County & Dixie County, FL ٠ 1/14/10. A man shot his sister and her coworker to
death and injured his niece and an employee. The shooter then fled, shooting and killing a
sheriff’s deputy as they pursued him. The shooter had a history of troubling behavior: he had
been arrested before and was described as being “hostile toward law enforcement”, was
investigated by the Secret Service for comments about President Obama, had attacked his
niece and her boyfriend previously, and told family that he wanted to “go on a shooting
rampage.”60

Kennesaw, GA ٠ 1/12/10. A 60-year-old man wearing camouflage opened fire at a truck
leasing company where he used to work. He killed two men and injured three others before
fleeing the scene. Four of the victims were employees and the fifth a customer. The shooter
reportedly had been laid off in July.61

Tulsa, OK ٠ 1/11/10. A man opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle, hitting four people in a
house. One person died. The group had been celebrating the shooter’s birthday when a fight
erupted, prompting the shooter to retrieve an AK-47 and fire on fellow celebrants.62

West Odessa, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Two 20-year-olds were arrested for shooting five young adults,
killing an 18-year-old man, early in the morning.63

Dallas, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Four people were injured when someone in another vehicle opened fire
on their car while on the freeway. The vehicles’ occupants had gotten into a fight at a nightclub
earlier that night.64

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Two men are suspected of shooting and killing three people and
wounding a fourth during a home invasion involving narcotics. Two of the deceased victims
were shot with an assault rifle; the third was shot with a handgun.65

57
Fredrick Kunkle & Josh White, Man is charged with murder in 8 Appomattox shooting, WASHINGTON POST, 21-
Jan-10.
58
Man charged in southeast Texas family slaying, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 20-Jan-10.
59
Club Shooting Kills 1, Injures 4: Police Called To El Dorado Club Just Before Midnight, KOCO- TV 5
OKLAHOMA CITY, 17-Jan-10.
60
Karen Voyles, Death penalty sought in slaying of Dixie captain, GAINESVILLE SUN, 12-Mar-10. Lisa Backus, Fla.
massacre suspect drew police attention, NEW BRITAIN HERALD, 18-Jan-10
61
Mike Morris & Alexis Stevens, Cobb shooter chose victims at random, company official says, ATLANTA JOURNAL
CONSTITUTION, 13-Jan-10.
62
Matt Barnard, Tulsa police: Brawl at birthday party may have led to shootings, TULSA WORLD, 12-Jan-10.
63
Shooting Leaves One Dead, Four Injured in West Odessa, KWES – TV 9 MIDLAND, TX, 10-Jan-10.
64
Dallas freeway shooting leaves 4 wounded, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Jan-10.
65
Leslie Williams, New Orleans police arrest suspect in St. Roch triple homicide, NEW ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE,
12-Jan-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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8 Updated 12/23/2010


St. Louis, MO ٠ 1/7/10. A 51-year-old man opened fire at the ABB Power plant where he
worked, killing three co-workers and injuring five others, before killing himself. The shooter had
sued his employer over their pension fund in 2006 and the trial had just begun that week. The
shooter fired over 100 rounds and was armed with an assault rifle, a shotgun, and two
handguns.66

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, just before midnight. Three
victims were found inside the house, and the last was found in the backyard.67

Butler, MO ٠ 1/1/10. A 26-year-old man shot a 29-year-old woman and her 25-year-old brother
to death at her home early in the morning . The woman's seven-year-old daughter was injured
by a bullet fragment. The shooter fled the scene, but police found him several hour later dead
by a self-inflicted gunshot wound.68




This list is a compilation of mass shootings found in available news outlets. It is not
comprehensive.

66
Liz Robbins, Gunman Kills 3 Co-Workers in St. Louis Factory and Then Himself, NEW YORK TIMES, 7-Jan-10.
Malcom Gay & Liz Robbins, Details Emerge on St. Louis Shooting, but Motive Unclear, NEW YORK TIMES, 8-Jan-
10.
67
3 Dead, 1 Injured in Bywater Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 8-Jan-10.
68
Karen Dillion, Brother, sister shot to death; police say suspect took his own life, KANSAS CITY STAR, 1-Jan-10.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
86. Not if he had a gun with only a few bullets.
And not if he was a horrible shot.

I don't think his choice of weapon is really the issue here. I think it's his choice of conflict resolution.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. This is getting beyond...
stupid.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. It got way beyond stupid when you started all this nonsense.
But don't let me spoil your fun.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. You guys can flip words around all you want...
it doesn't make your "arguments" make a lick of sense.

Too funny.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. no, the post you responded to was that it could have been much worse w a gun -so many more people...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:24 AM by bettyellen
but you don't have a good answer to that point, so you deflect. So dishonest.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Not allowed to make that argument
Since the reverse argument is not mentioned, ever, (how many more could he have killed if he's had a knife?) then we can't consider this.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Bullshit...n/t
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Some guy whips out a knife in a crowded bathroom on a Friday night.
Where do the victims run to? It's a bathroom; only one exit. Maybe he starts attacking guys lined up at the urinals. How many does he kill? More or less than if he had a gun?

Oooo, maybe it's the woman's bathroom he decides to turn into a slaughterhouse. No urinals but lots of stalls; it would delay people knowing what was going on and trying to escape.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Except people would hear gunshots...
and hopefully summon help.

However, the fact remains there would always be more certain destruction with a gun.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you deny the potential for an attack as I described exists? n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. No...
pay attention.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Okay, then, the potential exits.
What are you going to do about it?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Stupid question...n/t
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Okay, as long as you are thoroughly berated at the next mass stabbing n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Dude...
this is rapidly descending into silliness.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. hundreds of millions of guns in America, of which one or two...
...might be used in a mass casualty event per year. But that's enough to say that the potential of mass murder is grounds for federal legislation, bans, etc.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. See my previous reply...
dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. "of which one or two might be used in a mass casualty event per year"
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:23 AM by SDuderstadt
That is a total fabrication, dude.

Try 125 dead and 225 wounded in 68 shootings in 2010 alone.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Define "mass casualty event", YOUR definition. How many killed
constitute one?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Why don't you ask the guy who made...
the silly claim?
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. You said his statement was total fabrication. I'm asking YOU to define
YOUR opinion on what constitutes a mass event.

You can't call something a fabrication if you can't prove it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Upthread you questioned why four deaths would not be a...
"massacre".

Sure you want to play this game?
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I never said 4 isn't a massacre. I asked why 4 deaths isn't enough
considering a gun wasn't used.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I don't recall anyone here...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:47 AM by SDuderstadt
claiming it wasn't a massacre, dude.

Still sure you want to play this game?

P.S. Why aren't you asking Krispos to defend his goofy claim?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. enough for what? outrage? you want outrageous? here you go:
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 01:12 PM by bettyellen


MASS GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2010

1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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www.bradycampaign.org
1 Updated 12/23/2010



South San Francisco, CA ٠ 12/22/10. Two people were killed and four others wounded on a
street corner in the evening in a drive-by shooting.1

Sacramento, CA ٠ 12/14/10. A woman was killed and five others wounded in a gun battle at a
strip mall.2

Memphis, TN ٠ 12/12/10. Five men were shot at nightclub early in the morning because
someone was “pushing”.3

St.Louis, MO ٠ 11/30/10. Two people were killed and another two wounded outside a funeral
home in an on-going feud between local gangs.4

Cleveland, OH ٠ 11/28/10. An argument at a motorcycle club early in the morning lead to five
people being shot and one beaten.5

Richmond County, GA ٠ 11/28/10. Five people were shot at a club early in the morning.
Police believe several people are responsible for the shooting.6

Bonne Terre, MO ٠ 11/24/10. A man arrived at his ex-girlfriend’s apartment and opened fired,
killing his ex-girlfriend, her mother and that woman's boyfriend. He shot himself fatally when
confronted by officers. An 18-month-old and a 3-year-old were present during the shooting, but
left unharmed.7

Erie, PA ٠ 11/13/10. In an apparent murder-suicide, a man shot his wife, two daughters, and
himself to death.8

Atlanta, GA ٠ 10/30/10. Four people were hit in a drive-by shooting at a nightclub during a
Halloween party. One of the men and the bartender were shot in the head, and the two other
victims were transported to the hospital in stable condition.9


1
Peter Fimrite, 2 dead, 4 wounded in South San Francisco shooting, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, 22-Dec-10.
2
1 Dead, 5 wounded in shooting at Sacramento strip mall, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Dec-10.
3
Jody Callahan, 5 men injured in club shooting, MEMPHIS COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 12-Dec-10.
4
Nicholas Pistor, Two dead in shooting outside St. Louis funeral home, ST.LOUIS POST DISPATCH, 30-Nov-10.
5
Stan Donaldson, Six people injured after shooting at motorcycle club, CLEVELAND PLAIN-DEALER, 29-Nov-10.
6
Suspects sought after 5 people shot at club, AUGUSTA CHRONICLE, 29-Nov-10.
7
Police try to learn what spurred Duplex shootings, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 30-Nov-10.
8
Parents, 2 kids found shot to death in Western PA, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 13-Nov-10.
9
4 Shot in Atlanta Driveby, WSB-TV 2 ATLANTA, 30-Nov-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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2 Updated 12/23/2010

Chicago, IL ٠ 10/25/10. A man killed a woman, her nine-year-old daughter, another 16-year-
old girl, and her partner’s four-year-old son in an apartment.10

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 10/13/10. Five people were wounded in a shooting outside two
churches. The shooting is thought to be gang related.11

Boston, MA ٠ 9/28/10. Four people were shot to death on a street early in the morning,
including a 21-year-old woman and her two-year-old son cradled in her arms. The other two
male victims were found naked, sprawled on the ground. A third male also lay naked clinging to
life after attempting to flee. Law enforcement officials believe the shooting was possibly a drug
deal that went bad.12

East Orange, NJ ٠ 9/25/10. Five people were shot at an off-campus Seton Hall house party.
Students said the shooter was kicked out of the party when he refused to pay the cover
charge.13

Seattle, WA ٠ 9/23/10. A schizophrenic grandmother armed with a handgun killed her 14- and
17-year-old granddaughters and her 43-year-old son-in-law, and injured her 42-year-old
daughter14

Bay Shore, NY ٠ 9/11/10. After an argument, two people with handguns opened fire, injuring
five people outside a bar early in the morning.15

Chesapeake, VA ٠ 9/11/10. Two people opened fire on a group having a cookout in a park
next to a middle school. Four adults and a 14-year-old were injured.16

Lancaster, CA ٠ 9/6/10. At least one gunman opened fire at a crowded house party, killing a
14-year-old girl and injuring six others. The injured victims range in age from 13 to 26 years
old.17

New Orleans, LA ٠ 9/5/10. A woman was fatally shot in the head and four others were
wounded on a street corner.18

Durham, NC ٠ 9/5/10. Ten people inside a home were injured in drive-by shooting.19

Chicago, IL ٠ 9/2/10. Four men were fatally shot execution-style in garage. The men’s hands,
feet and mouths were bound with duct tape. Multiple weapons were found at the scene.20

10
3 Dead in Harvey Shooting: Two Children Fatally Shot, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Oct-10.
11
Carla Hinton, One dead, 5 wounded in northwest Oklahoma City shooting, THE OKLAHOMAN, 15-Oct-10.
12
City, Residents reeling after Mattapan slayings, BOSTON GLOBE, 28-Sep-10.
13
Witness Describes ‘Hell’ During Fatal Shooting Rampage at ‘Typical Fraternity Party’, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 26-
Sep-10.
14
Casey McNerthney, Family: Grandmother in shooting spree battled schizophrenia, SEATTLE POST-
INTELLIGENCER, 25-Sep-10.
15
Kaitlyn Piccoli, Five People Shot outside Bay Shore bar, LONG ISLAND PRESS, 9-Sep-10.
16
Jennifer Jiggets, Suspects sought in Chesapeake shooting that wounds 5, VIRGINIAN-PILOT, 13-Sep-10.
17
Detectives seek leads in Lancaster shooting that left girl, 14, dead and 6 others wounded, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 6-
Sep-10.
18
Rick Martin, 1 killed, 4 hurt in New Orleans shooting, CNN, 5-Sep-10.
19
10 wounded in Durham drive by shooting, WRAL - TV 4 RALEIGH/DURHAM, 10-Sep-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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3 Updated 12/23/2010


Louisa, VA ٠ 8/22/10. At least four people were wounded and two killed when someone
opened fire over a property dispute. When police arrived, the suspect attacked police and they
killed him.21

Hartford, CT ٠ 8/3/10. A disgruntled employee who claimed he had been harassed because he
was African-American, opened fire at the beer distribution factory where he worked. He had just
attended a disciplinary hearing relating to his theft of beer from the company before the
shooting. He killed eight people and injured two before calling his girlfriend and then taking his
own life.22

Indianapolis, IN ٠ 8/3/10. Three men armed with an assault rifle and a handgun ambushed a
backyard birthday party and shot seven people. A 37-year-old woman and a 54-year-old man
died from their injuries. An eighth person was injured when someone at the party returned fire
at the shooters, but shot a bystander instead.23

Ft. Lauderdale, FL ٠ 7/30/10. Five people were shot outside of a nightclub.24

Dallas, TX ٠ 7/9/10. A man killed his pregnant girlfriend, their two kids and himself. He shot
their third child, age seven, in the face but she survived. He had a history of domestic violence
and the victim had a restraining order against him.25

Richmond, Va ٠ 7/3/10. Police responded to a call reporting random gunfire at a public-
housing complex. Officers found five people with gunshot wounds within two blocks.26

East Point, GA ٠ 6/26/10. At least two people began shooting when a fight broke out at a large
party at an apartment complex. Four people were injured and one was killed. The victims were
described as teens or younger adults.27

San Bernardino, CA ٠ 6/19/10. A 56-year-old man opened fire in a restaurant, killing his
stepdaughter's husband and their six-year-old son before fatally shooting himself in the head.
The man also critically wounded his stepdaughter and her 5-year-old son. Authorities said the
shooter had a lengthy criminal record that included charges of theft, DUI and assault with a
deadly weapon.28

Hialeah, FL ٠ 6/6/10. A Cuban immigrant, who had a clean record in the US, but had served
time in prison in Cuba, opened fire at the restaurant where his wife worked. He shot seven
women, killing four, before turning the gun on himself. The wife’s family claims he repeatedly
abused her.29

20
Relatives sat slaying of 4 men in garage a mystery, WGN- CHICAGO, 3-Sep-10.
21
Portia Smith, Louisa shootout leaves 3 dead, FREDERICKSBURG NEWS, 23-Aug-10.
22
Ray Rivera, Troubles Proceeded Connecticut Workplace killing, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-Aug-10.
23
Jon Murray, Murder charges filed against 3 in gunfight birthday party, INDIANAPOLIS STAR, 21-Aug-10.
24
Alexa Campbell, Police identify five victims shot outside Fort Lauderdale Night Club, PALM BEACH POST NEWS,
30-Jul-10.
25
Michael Barrett, Court records foreshadow day of four deaths in Dallas, GASTON GAZETTE, 12-Jul-10.
26
Jeremy Slayton, 5 wounded in Richmond shooting, RICHMOND TIMES-DISPATCH, 5-Jul-10.
27
Jay Black, 5 Shot, 1 Dead During Party in East Points, WSB NEWS RADIO ATLANTA, 27-Jun-10.
28
Victoria Kim, 2 people killed in Del Taco shooting are identified, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 19-Jun-10.
29
Shooter Had Violent Past, WSVN- TV 7 MIAMI, 11-Jun-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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4 Updated 12/23/2010


New Brighton, MN ٠ 6/6/10. A gunman demanded money from people attending a three-year-
old’s birthday party a community shelter at a trailer park, and then opened fire, injuring four
people.30

West Memphis, AK ٠ 5/20/10. A man and his 16-year-old son opened fired on police officers
with assault weapons during a traffic stop, and then again in a shootout when police tried to
apprehend them after the first shooting. The two officers involved in the traffic stop were killed
and two officers in the second shootout were injured; the two suspects were killed by police in
the second shootout. The adult suspect had multiple run-ins with the law, and was considered a
threat to law enforcement before the shooting happened.31

Tuscaloosa, AL ٠ 5/16/10. A man fired a handgun at a graduation party where there were an
estimated 100 people in attendance. Nine people were struck by the gunshots, two of which
were wounded critically and one was killed. Witnesses said the shooter got into a physical fight
with another group, possibly involving gang affiliations.32

North Richmond, CA ٠ 5/13/10. Three men were killed and one man was injured in a drive-by
shooting. Two of them men were pronounced dead at the scene and a third died after being
taken to the hospital.33

Detroit, MI ٠ 5/3/10. Five officers were shot, one fatally, when they responded to a report of
gunshots at a vacant duplex where drugs were reportedly sold.34

Decatur, GA ٠ 4/15/10. Two people died and three others were injured when gunfire erupted in
a home. Police believe multiple people fired guns during the incident.35

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/14/10. Four people were killed, including three children, and two others were
injured in an early morning shooting.36

Muskogee, OK ٠ 4/10/10. An argument between two gangs lead to a shooting at a crowded
mall. A 17-year-old was killed and five others were injured.37

Long Beach, CA ٠ 4/5/10. A gunman opened fire on a group outside an apartment complex,
injuring four people, including two teenage girls. Police believe the shooting may have been
gang-related.38

Omaha, NE ٠ 4/4/10. A 19-year-old was charged with shooting four other teenagers in the
evening.39

30
4 injured in New Brighton shooting, suspect still at large, KARE - TV 11 MINNEAPOLIS, 6-Jun-10.
31
Zack McMillin and Marc Perrusquia, 2 police officers fatally shot in West Memphis, Arkansas, MEMPHIS
COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 22-May-10.
32
Stefanie Taylor, Three shooting victims were friends of suspect, TUSCALOOSA NEWS, 18-May-10.
33
3 killed, 1 hurt in Richmond shooting, San Francisco Chronicle, 13-May-10.
34
Michigan: 5 Officers Are Shot, One Fatally, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-May-10.
35
Multiple Shooting near Atlanta, 2 dead, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 16-Apr-10.
36
4 dead, 2 wounded in Chicago shooting, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 14-Apr-10.
37
Deon J. Hampton, Shooting at mall in Muskogee kills teen, TULSA WORLD, 11-Apr-10.
38
Joel Rubin, 4 people injured in Long Beach shooting, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 5-Apr-10.
39
Arrest Made in Multiple Shooting, WOWT-TV 6 OMAHA, 13-Apr-10.


1225 Eye Street, NW, Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20005 i
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5 Updated 12/23/2010


North Hollywood, CA ٠ 4/3/10. A gunman opened fire at a restaurant, killing four people and
injuring two others. Police believe the victims were targeted and Armenian gangsters are
responsible.40

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/2/10. Four people were shot on the street after midnight. As emergency
responders were taking the victims away, someone shot at police at the scene and injured two
bystanders.41

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/31/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, at a home. One person was
found dead outside while the other three were inside. Police believe the surviving victim may
have been the shooter.42

Aransas Pass, TX ٠ 3/31/10. A man shot five people in a mobile home. A 35-year-old woman
died from her injuries.43

Washington, DC ٠ 3/30/10. A 14-year-old and three men with an AK-47 assault rifle and two
handguns opened fire on a group of young adults gathered outside in the evening. Four
teenagers, aged 16, 17, 18, and 19, were killed and five other people were injured. Police
believe the shooting may have stemmed from a missing a bracelet or was retaliation for a
previous shooting.44

Chattanooga, TN ٠ 3/27/10. Three people, including a juvenile, are suspected of shooting five
people, including three juveniles, at Coolidge Park. The shooting happened as police were
clearing the park of the hundreds of people who had gathered at the park.45

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/25/10. A woman, her seven-year-old daughter, four-year-old son, and
17-year-old sister were each shot multiple times in their home. All four victims died.46

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 3/21/10. A man shot four people, including a juvenile and a pregnant woman,
outside a house early in the morning. The victims and shooter had argued earlier. The
pregnant victim delivered her baby, who was also wounded in the shooting, at the hospital.47

Chicago, IL ٠ 3/18/10. Four people, including a 14-year-old boy, were shot on the street at
night.48


40
Restaurant Shooting: Armenian Gangs Blamed for “Blood Bath” at L.A. Restaurant, KTLA- TV LOS ANGELES,
5-Apr-10.
41
Pat Curry, Six shot on South Side, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 2-Apr-10.
42
3 Killed, 1 Injured In Treme Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 31-Mar-10.
43
Elizabeth Noyola, Shooting in Aransas pass kills 1, 4 others hospitalized: Police search for killer, KZTV – TV 10
CORPUS CHRISTI, 1-Apr-10.
44
Clarence Williams, Keith L. Alexander & Paul Duggan, D.C. police trace shootings that killed 4 through chain of
events starting with a man's missing bracelet, WASHINGTON POST, 1-Apr-10.
45
3 arrested in shooting at park in eastern Tennessee, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 28-Mar-10.
46
Ramon Antonio Vargas, Mother, her two children and sister in grisly slaying mourned by family members, NEW
ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE, 26-Mar-10.
47
Mark Johnson, Baby born wounded as shooting injures 5, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL, 21-Mar-10.
48
4 people wounded in West Side shooting, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 18-Mar-10.


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Winnsboro, SC ٠ 3/17/10. Two men shot four people during a robbery-attempt. The
homeowner fought the burglars who fired at several guests.49

Pomona, CA ٠ 3/13/10. A gunman opened fire on a group people at an outdoor party in the
courtyard of an apartment complex. Three men and two women were wounded.50

Detroit, MI ٠ 3/11/10. A gunman in an SUV opened fire with an assault weapon at another car,
hitting all four passengers. One man died and a two-year-old boy was critically injured.51

New York, NY ٠ 2/22/10. A man shot his wife and two teenage daughters to death with an
assault rifle before shooting and killing himself. He and his wife had been having marital
problems for a while before the shooting.52

Philadelphia, PA ٠ 2/21/10. One man died and three others were injured after being shot
outside a bar during a fight between two people.53

Huntsville, AL ٠ 2/12/10. A professor opened fire 50 minutes into a Biological Sciences
Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding
three others. The shooter had a history of violence: she shot and killed her brother in 1986,
was possibly involved in an attempted mail bombing, and was convicted of disorderly conduct,
and assault and battery in an incident in 2002. The gun used in shooting was bought from the
shooter’s husband in 1989 by a friend in New Hampshire to avoid a waiting period in
Massachusetts.54

Miami-Dade County, FL ٠ 1/24/10. Four men pulled up outside an apartment building and
opened fire on a group there, killing a 15-year-old girl and injuring three other people. The men
were armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and a shotgun.55

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 1/21/10. Five people, including a 20-year-old, were shot outside a tavern.
Police recovered shell casings from three weapons.56

Appomattox, VA ٠ 1/19/10. A 39-year-old man shot and killed his sister, her husband, their
two children, and four family friends in and around the family home. The man also shot at police
with an assault rifle when they arrived at the scene, and even shot a police helicopter six times,
bringing it down. The shooter, who first obtained a concealed carry permit in 1995, and owned
dozens of weapons, including “many” AR-15 assault rifles was badly affected by his mother’s

49
Tony Santaella, James Gilbert & Lauren Eleazer, 4 People Shot in Winnsboro, Suspects in Custody, WLTX –TV
19 COLUMBIA, 18-Mar-10.
50
Corina Knoll, Shooting in Pomona leaves 5 wounded, police say, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Mar-10.
51
Zlati Meyer, Man dead, toddler hurt in Detroit shooting, DETROIT FREE PRESS, 12-Mar-10.
52
Daniel Edward Rosen, Wil Cruz & Edgar Sandoval, Queens father fatally shoots wife, daughters, then turns gun
on self; leaves note that he's 'sorry', NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, 22-Feb-10.
53
Derrick Nunnally, 1 dead, 3 hurt in shooting at N. Phila. Bar, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER, 22-Feb-10.
54
Emanuella Grinberg, Judge sends Alabama university shooting case to grand jury, CNN, 24-Mar-10. Aaron
Cooper & Brooke Baldwin, Police: University shooting suspect was charged after fight in 2002, CNN, 17-Feb-10
55
Jennifer Lebovich, Police, family seek tips in teen's drive-by shooting death, MIAMI HERALD, 3-Feb-10.
56
5 Hospitalized After Milwaukee Tavern Shooting, WTAQ – RADIO WISCONSIN, 21-Jan-10.


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death in 2006 and had reportedly become angry about ownership of the family house and land
that was left jointly to him and his sister.57

Bellville, TX ٠ 1/17/10. A 20-year-old man is charged with shooting and killing his mother,
stepfather, sister, brother and two-year-old niece at the family home. Police believe an “ongoing
family dispute” prompted the shooting.58

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 1/16/10. Five people were shot at a club, one fatally, late at night.59

Hernando County & Dixie County, FL ٠ 1/14/10. A man shot his sister and her coworker to
death and injured his niece and an employee. The shooter then fled, shooting and killing a
sheriff’s deputy as they pursued him. The shooter had a history of troubling behavior: he had
been arrested before and was described as being “hostile toward law enforcement”, was
investigated by the Secret Service for comments about President Obama, had attacked his
niece and her boyfriend previously, and told family that he wanted to “go on a shooting
rampage.”60

Kennesaw, GA ٠ 1/12/10. A 60-year-old man wearing camouflage opened fire at a truck
leasing company where he used to work. He killed two men and injured three others before
fleeing the scene. Four of the victims were employees and the fifth a customer. The shooter
reportedly had been laid off in July.61

Tulsa, OK ٠ 1/11/10. A man opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle, hitting four people in a
house. One person died. The group had been celebrating the shooter’s birthday when a fight
erupted, prompting the shooter to retrieve an AK-47 and fire on fellow celebrants.62

West Odessa, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Two 20-year-olds were arrested for shooting five young adults,
killing an 18-year-old man, early in the morning.63

Dallas, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Four people were injured when someone in another vehicle opened fire
on their car while on the freeway. The vehicles’ occupants had gotten into a fight at a nightclub
earlier that night.64

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Two men are suspected of shooting and killing three people and
wounding a fourth during a home invasion involving narcotics. Two of the deceased victims
were shot with an assault rifle; the third was shot with a handgun.65

57
Fredrick Kunkle & Josh White, Man is charged with murder in 8 Appomattox shooting, WASHINGTON POST, 21-
Jan-10.
58
Man charged in southeast Texas family slaying, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 20-Jan-10.
59
Club Shooting Kills 1, Injures 4: Police Called To El Dorado Club Just Before Midnight, KOCO- TV 5
OKLAHOMA CITY, 17-Jan-10.
60
Karen Voyles, Death penalty sought in slaying of Dixie captain, GAINESVILLE SUN, 12-Mar-10. Lisa Backus, Fla.
massacre suspect drew police attention, NEW BRITAIN HERALD, 18-Jan-10
61
Mike Morris & Alexis Stevens, Cobb shooter chose victims at random, company official says, ATLANTA JOURNAL
CONSTITUTION, 13-Jan-10.
62
Matt Barnard, Tulsa police: Brawl at birthday party may have led to shootings, TULSA WORLD, 12-Jan-10.
63
Shooting Leaves One Dead, Four Injured in West Odessa, KWES – TV 9 MIDLAND, TX, 10-Jan-10.
64
Dallas freeway shooting leaves 4 wounded, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Jan-10.
65
Leslie Williams, New Orleans police arrest suspect in St. Roch triple homicide, NEW ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE,
12-Jan-10.


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St. Louis, MO ٠ 1/7/10. A 51-year-old man opened fire at the ABB Power plant where he
worked, killing three co-workers and injuring five others, before killing himself. The shooter had
sued his employer over their pension fund in 2006 and the trial had just begun that week. The
shooter fired over 100 rounds and was armed with an assault rifle, a shotgun, and two
handguns.66

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, just before midnight. Three
victims were found inside the house, and the last was found in the backyard.67

Butler, MO ٠ 1/1/10. A 26-year-old man shot a 29-year-old woman and her 25-year-old brother
to death at her home early in the morning . The woman's seven-year-old daughter was injured
by a bullet fragment. The shooter fled the scene, but police found him several hour later dead
by a self-inflicted gunshot wound.68




This list is a compilation of mass shootings found in available news outlets. It is not
comprehensive.

66
Liz Robbins, Gunman Kills 3 Co-Workers in St. Louis Factory and Then Himself, NEW YORK TIMES, 7-Jan-10.
Malcom Gay & Liz Robbins, Details Emerge on St. Louis Shooting, but Motive Unclear, NEW YORK TIMES, 8-Jan-
10.
67
3 Dead, 1 Injured in Bywater Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 8-Jan-10.
68
Karen Dillion, Brother, sister shot to death; police say suspect took his own life, KANSAS CITY STAR, 1-Jan-10.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Here's the list for 2010...
Why don't you peruse it and offer a good reason why any event there doesn't qualify?


http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/facts/mass-shootings-2010.pdf.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You are refusing to give your opinion. Gotcha. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I just provided the list in which...
there are not less than 4 victims per shooting. If you notice, you already claimed 4 stabbing deaths was a massacre. We're on the same page.

You just don't like being beaten at your own game, dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. The link above downloads a...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 12:45 PM by SDuderstadt
pdf. Here's a link to the press release, however, I am not sure you can access anything other than the pdf. You can download Adobe reader for free.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/1334/
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
65. Do you have a link that works?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
79. Post # 45...n/t
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. 99.875% of guns are NOT used in any shooting..
Considering the rarity of mass shootings, I'd say that it's more like 1 gun in 100,000.

300,000,000 guns in the hands of 80,000,000 -- but ~400,000 crimes (of any stripe) committed with a gun. ~9k firearm homicides in 2009.

9k / 300,000,000 = 1 in 33,000 (for *any* homicide, not a 'mass' shooting.)


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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
68. Nigeria beat that with just one mass macheteing event
"Try 125 dead and 225 wounded in 68 shootings in 2010 alone"

500 dead in march of 2010 alone, because the villagers were disarmed.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Do you understand the meaning and...
significance of comparability?
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
107. Fact is people have used blades to kill many people without having to use firearms
And the are many more people who died because they did not have guns than in mass shootings in 2010.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
84. How do you define "mass casualty event"?
Is based on corpses, injured, corpses plus injured, the amount of media time the event draws... what?


The DOJ tracks homicide victims per incident as either "1", "2", "3", "4", or "5+". Assuming you pick "5+" category as a "mass casually event", how many do we have a year?





The data has moved, now it's in this PDF, page 124.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. LOL...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:55 PM by SDuderstadt
You are arbitrarily setting the bar at five dead. Ever heard of the logical fallacy known as "the Texas Sharpshooter"?

Too funny.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. I noticed you didn't answer the question.
And why is your arbitrary bar better than my arbitrary bar?
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
115. The numbers you give do not match the criteria you selected
The Brady Campaign uses the standard of "four victims", not "four dead victims". Jeez, at that level a decent bar fight is a "mass casualty event", too.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
55. one or two? LOL, Are you really THAT out of the loop? If so, some facts for u here"


MASS GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2010

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1 Updated 12/23/2010



South San Francisco, CA ٠ 12/22/10. Two people were killed and four others wounded on a
street corner in the evening in a drive-by shooting.1

Sacramento, CA ٠ 12/14/10. A woman was killed and five others wounded in a gun battle at a
strip mall.2

Memphis, TN ٠ 12/12/10. Five men were shot at nightclub early in the morning because
someone was “pushing”.3

St.Louis, MO ٠ 11/30/10. Two people were killed and another two wounded outside a funeral
home in an on-going feud between local gangs.4

Cleveland, OH ٠ 11/28/10. An argument at a motorcycle club early in the morning lead to five
people being shot and one beaten.5

Richmond County, GA ٠ 11/28/10. Five people were shot at a club early in the morning.
Police believe several people are responsible for the shooting.6

Bonne Terre, MO ٠ 11/24/10. A man arrived at his ex-girlfriend’s apartment and opened fired,
killing his ex-girlfriend, her mother and that woman's boyfriend. He shot himself fatally when
confronted by officers. An 18-month-old and a 3-year-old were present during the shooting, but
left unharmed.7

Erie, PA ٠ 11/13/10. In an apparent murder-suicide, a man shot his wife, two daughters, and
himself to death.8

Atlanta, GA ٠ 10/30/10. Four people were hit in a drive-by shooting at a nightclub during a
Halloween party. One of the men and the bartender were shot in the head, and the two other
victims were transported to the hospital in stable condition.9


1
Peter Fimrite, 2 dead, 4 wounded in South San Francisco shooting, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, 22-Dec-10.
2
1 Dead, 5 wounded in shooting at Sacramento strip mall, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Dec-10.
3
Jody Callahan, 5 men injured in club shooting, MEMPHIS COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 12-Dec-10.
4
Nicholas Pistor, Two dead in shooting outside St. Louis funeral home, ST.LOUIS POST DISPATCH, 30-Nov-10.
5
Stan Donaldson, Six people injured after shooting at motorcycle club, CLEVELAND PLAIN-DEALER, 29-Nov-10.
6
Suspects sought after 5 people shot at club, AUGUSTA CHRONICLE, 29-Nov-10.
7
Police try to learn what spurred Duplex shootings, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 30-Nov-10.
8
Parents, 2 kids found shot to death in Western PA, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 13-Nov-10.
9
4 Shot in Atlanta Driveby, WSB-TV 2 ATLANTA, 30-Nov-10.


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2 Updated 12/23/2010

Chicago, IL ٠ 10/25/10. A man killed a woman, her nine-year-old daughter, another 16-year-
old girl, and her partner’s four-year-old son in an apartment.10

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 10/13/10. Five people were wounded in a shooting outside two
churches. The shooting is thought to be gang related.11

Boston, MA ٠ 9/28/10. Four people were shot to death on a street early in the morning,
including a 21-year-old woman and her two-year-old son cradled in her arms. The other two
male victims were found naked, sprawled on the ground. A third male also lay naked clinging to
life after attempting to flee. Law enforcement officials believe the shooting was possibly a drug
deal that went bad.12

East Orange, NJ ٠ 9/25/10. Five people were shot at an off-campus Seton Hall house party.
Students said the shooter was kicked out of the party when he refused to pay the cover
charge.13

Seattle, WA ٠ 9/23/10. A schizophrenic grandmother armed with a handgun killed her 14- and
17-year-old granddaughters and her 43-year-old son-in-law, and injured her 42-year-old
daughter14

Bay Shore, NY ٠ 9/11/10. After an argument, two people with handguns opened fire, injuring
five people outside a bar early in the morning.15

Chesapeake, VA ٠ 9/11/10. Two people opened fire on a group having a cookout in a park
next to a middle school. Four adults and a 14-year-old were injured.16

Lancaster, CA ٠ 9/6/10. At least one gunman opened fire at a crowded house party, killing a
14-year-old girl and injuring six others. The injured victims range in age from 13 to 26 years
old.17

New Orleans, LA ٠ 9/5/10. A woman was fatally shot in the head and four others were
wounded on a street corner.18

Durham, NC ٠ 9/5/10. Ten people inside a home were injured in drive-by shooting.19

Chicago, IL ٠ 9/2/10. Four men were fatally shot execution-style in garage. The men’s hands,
feet and mouths were bound with duct tape. Multiple weapons were found at the scene.20

10
3 Dead in Harvey Shooting: Two Children Fatally Shot, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Oct-10.
11
Carla Hinton, One dead, 5 wounded in northwest Oklahoma City shooting, THE OKLAHOMAN, 15-Oct-10.
12
City, Residents reeling after Mattapan slayings, BOSTON GLOBE, 28-Sep-10.
13
Witness Describes ‘Hell’ During Fatal Shooting Rampage at ‘Typical Fraternity Party’, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 26-
Sep-10.
14
Casey McNerthney, Family: Grandmother in shooting spree battled schizophrenia, SEATTLE POST-
INTELLIGENCER, 25-Sep-10.
15
Kaitlyn Piccoli, Five People Shot outside Bay Shore bar, LONG ISLAND PRESS, 9-Sep-10.
16
Jennifer Jiggets, Suspects sought in Chesapeake shooting that wounds 5, VIRGINIAN-PILOT, 13-Sep-10.
17
Detectives seek leads in Lancaster shooting that left girl, 14, dead and 6 others wounded, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 6-
Sep-10.
18
Rick Martin, 1 killed, 4 hurt in New Orleans shooting, CNN, 5-Sep-10.
19
10 wounded in Durham drive by shooting, WRAL - TV 4 RALEIGH/DURHAM, 10-Sep-10.


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3 Updated 12/23/2010


Louisa, VA ٠ 8/22/10. At least four people were wounded and two killed when someone
opened fire over a property dispute. When police arrived, the suspect attacked police and they
killed him.21

Hartford, CT ٠ 8/3/10. A disgruntled employee who claimed he had been harassed because he
was African-American, opened fire at the beer distribution factory where he worked. He had just
attended a disciplinary hearing relating to his theft of beer from the company before the
shooting. He killed eight people and injured two before calling his girlfriend and then taking his
own life.22

Indianapolis, IN ٠ 8/3/10. Three men armed with an assault rifle and a handgun ambushed a
backyard birthday party and shot seven people. A 37-year-old woman and a 54-year-old man
died from their injuries. An eighth person was injured when someone at the party returned fire
at the shooters, but shot a bystander instead.23

Ft. Lauderdale, FL ٠ 7/30/10. Five people were shot outside of a nightclub.24

Dallas, TX ٠ 7/9/10. A man killed his pregnant girlfriend, their two kids and himself. He shot
their third child, age seven, in the face but she survived. He had a history of domestic violence
and the victim had a restraining order against him.25

Richmond, Va ٠ 7/3/10. Police responded to a call reporting random gunfire at a public-
housing complex. Officers found five people with gunshot wounds within two blocks.26

East Point, GA ٠ 6/26/10. At least two people began shooting when a fight broke out at a large
party at an apartment complex. Four people were injured and one was killed. The victims were
described as teens or younger adults.27

San Bernardino, CA ٠ 6/19/10. A 56-year-old man opened fire in a restaurant, killing his
stepdaughter's husband and their six-year-old son before fatally shooting himself in the head.
The man also critically wounded his stepdaughter and her 5-year-old son. Authorities said the
shooter had a lengthy criminal record that included charges of theft, DUI and assault with a
deadly weapon.28

Hialeah, FL ٠ 6/6/10. A Cuban immigrant, who had a clean record in the US, but had served
time in prison in Cuba, opened fire at the restaurant where his wife worked. He shot seven
women, killing four, before turning the gun on himself. The wife’s family claims he repeatedly
abused her.29

20
Relatives sat slaying of 4 men in garage a mystery, WGN- CHICAGO, 3-Sep-10.
21
Portia Smith, Louisa shootout leaves 3 dead, FREDERICKSBURG NEWS, 23-Aug-10.
22
Ray Rivera, Troubles Proceeded Connecticut Workplace killing, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-Aug-10.
23
Jon Murray, Murder charges filed against 3 in gunfight birthday party, INDIANAPOLIS STAR, 21-Aug-10.
24
Alexa Campbell, Police identify five victims shot outside Fort Lauderdale Night Club, PALM BEACH POST NEWS,
30-Jul-10.
25
Michael Barrett, Court records foreshadow day of four deaths in Dallas, GASTON GAZETTE, 12-Jul-10.
26
Jeremy Slayton, 5 wounded in Richmond shooting, RICHMOND TIMES-DISPATCH, 5-Jul-10.
27
Jay Black, 5 Shot, 1 Dead During Party in East Points, WSB NEWS RADIO ATLANTA, 27-Jun-10.
28
Victoria Kim, 2 people killed in Del Taco shooting are identified, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 19-Jun-10.
29
Shooter Had Violent Past, WSVN- TV 7 MIAMI, 11-Jun-10.


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4 Updated 12/23/2010


New Brighton, MN ٠ 6/6/10. A gunman demanded money from people attending a three-year-
old’s birthday party a community shelter at a trailer park, and then opened fire, injuring four
people.30

West Memphis, AK ٠ 5/20/10. A man and his 16-year-old son opened fired on police officers
with assault weapons during a traffic stop, and then again in a shootout when police tried to
apprehend them after the first shooting. The two officers involved in the traffic stop were killed
and two officers in the second shootout were injured; the two suspects were killed by police in
the second shootout. The adult suspect had multiple run-ins with the law, and was considered a
threat to law enforcement before the shooting happened.31

Tuscaloosa, AL ٠ 5/16/10. A man fired a handgun at a graduation party where there were an
estimated 100 people in attendance. Nine people were struck by the gunshots, two of which
were wounded critically and one was killed. Witnesses said the shooter got into a physical fight
with another group, possibly involving gang affiliations.32

North Richmond, CA ٠ 5/13/10. Three men were killed and one man was injured in a drive-by
shooting. Two of them men were pronounced dead at the scene and a third died after being
taken to the hospital.33

Detroit, MI ٠ 5/3/10. Five officers were shot, one fatally, when they responded to a report of
gunshots at a vacant duplex where drugs were reportedly sold.34

Decatur, GA ٠ 4/15/10. Two people died and three others were injured when gunfire erupted in
a home. Police believe multiple people fired guns during the incident.35

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/14/10. Four people were killed, including three children, and two others were
injured in an early morning shooting.36

Muskogee, OK ٠ 4/10/10. An argument between two gangs lead to a shooting at a crowded
mall. A 17-year-old was killed and five others were injured.37

Long Beach, CA ٠ 4/5/10. A gunman opened fire on a group outside an apartment complex,
injuring four people, including two teenage girls. Police believe the shooting may have been
gang-related.38

Omaha, NE ٠ 4/4/10. A 19-year-old was charged with shooting four other teenagers in the
evening.39

30
4 injured in New Brighton shooting, suspect still at large, KARE - TV 11 MINNEAPOLIS, 6-Jun-10.
31
Zack McMillin and Marc Perrusquia, 2 police officers fatally shot in West Memphis, Arkansas, MEMPHIS
COMMERCIAL APPEAL, 22-May-10.
32
Stefanie Taylor, Three shooting victims were friends of suspect, TUSCALOOSA NEWS, 18-May-10.
33
3 killed, 1 hurt in Richmond shooting, San Francisco Chronicle, 13-May-10.
34
Michigan: 5 Officers Are Shot, One Fatally, NEW YORK TIMES, 3-May-10.
35
Multiple Shooting near Atlanta, 2 dead, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 16-Apr-10.
36
4 dead, 2 wounded in Chicago shooting, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 14-Apr-10.
37
Deon J. Hampton, Shooting at mall in Muskogee kills teen, TULSA WORLD, 11-Apr-10.
38
Joel Rubin, 4 people injured in Long Beach shooting, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 5-Apr-10.
39
Arrest Made in Multiple Shooting, WOWT-TV 6 OMAHA, 13-Apr-10.


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North Hollywood, CA ٠ 4/3/10. A gunman opened fire at a restaurant, killing four people and
injuring two others. Police believe the victims were targeted and Armenian gangsters are
responsible.40

Chicago, IL ٠ 4/2/10. Four people were shot on the street after midnight. As emergency
responders were taking the victims away, someone shot at police at the scene and injured two
bystanders.41

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/31/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, at a home. One person was
found dead outside while the other three were inside. Police believe the surviving victim may
have been the shooter.42

Aransas Pass, TX ٠ 3/31/10. A man shot five people in a mobile home. A 35-year-old woman
died from her injuries.43

Washington, DC ٠ 3/30/10. A 14-year-old and three men with an AK-47 assault rifle and two
handguns opened fire on a group of young adults gathered outside in the evening. Four
teenagers, aged 16, 17, 18, and 19, were killed and five other people were injured. Police
believe the shooting may have stemmed from a missing a bracelet or was retaliation for a
previous shooting.44

Chattanooga, TN ٠ 3/27/10. Three people, including a juvenile, are suspected of shooting five
people, including three juveniles, at Coolidge Park. The shooting happened as police were
clearing the park of the hundreds of people who had gathered at the park.45

New Orleans, LA ٠ 3/25/10. A woman, her seven-year-old daughter, four-year-old son, and
17-year-old sister were each shot multiple times in their home. All four victims died.46

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 3/21/10. A man shot four people, including a juvenile and a pregnant woman,
outside a house early in the morning. The victims and shooter had argued earlier. The
pregnant victim delivered her baby, who was also wounded in the shooting, at the hospital.47

Chicago, IL ٠ 3/18/10. Four people, including a 14-year-old boy, were shot on the street at
night.48


40
Restaurant Shooting: Armenian Gangs Blamed for “Blood Bath” at L.A. Restaurant, KTLA- TV LOS ANGELES,
5-Apr-10.
41
Pat Curry, Six shot on South Side, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 2-Apr-10.
42
3 Killed, 1 Injured In Treme Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 31-Mar-10.
43
Elizabeth Noyola, Shooting in Aransas pass kills 1, 4 others hospitalized: Police search for killer, KZTV – TV 10
CORPUS CHRISTI, 1-Apr-10.
44
Clarence Williams, Keith L. Alexander & Paul Duggan, D.C. police trace shootings that killed 4 through chain of
events starting with a man's missing bracelet, WASHINGTON POST, 1-Apr-10.
45
3 arrested in shooting at park in eastern Tennessee, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 28-Mar-10.
46
Ramon Antonio Vargas, Mother, her two children and sister in grisly slaying mourned by family members, NEW
ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE, 26-Mar-10.
47
Mark Johnson, Baby born wounded as shooting injures 5, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL, 21-Mar-10.
48
4 people wounded in West Side shooting, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 18-Mar-10.


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Winnsboro, SC ٠ 3/17/10. Two men shot four people during a robbery-attempt. The
homeowner fought the burglars who fired at several guests.49

Pomona, CA ٠ 3/13/10. A gunman opened fire on a group people at an outdoor party in the
courtyard of an apartment complex. Three men and two women were wounded.50

Detroit, MI ٠ 3/11/10. A gunman in an SUV opened fire with an assault weapon at another car,
hitting all four passengers. One man died and a two-year-old boy was critically injured.51

New York, NY ٠ 2/22/10. A man shot his wife and two teenage daughters to death with an
assault rifle before shooting and killing himself. He and his wife had been having marital
problems for a while before the shooting.52

Philadelphia, PA ٠ 2/21/10. One man died and three others were injured after being shot
outside a bar during a fight between two people.53

Huntsville, AL ٠ 2/12/10. A professor opened fire 50 minutes into a Biological Sciences
Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding
three others. The shooter had a history of violence: she shot and killed her brother in 1986,
was possibly involved in an attempted mail bombing, and was convicted of disorderly conduct,
and assault and battery in an incident in 2002. The gun used in shooting was bought from the
shooter’s husband in 1989 by a friend in New Hampshire to avoid a waiting period in
Massachusetts.54

Miami-Dade County, FL ٠ 1/24/10. Four men pulled up outside an apartment building and
opened fire on a group there, killing a 15-year-old girl and injuring three other people. The men
were armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and a shotgun.55

Milwaukee, WI ٠ 1/21/10. Five people, including a 20-year-old, were shot outside a tavern.
Police recovered shell casings from three weapons.56

Appomattox, VA ٠ 1/19/10. A 39-year-old man shot and killed his sister, her husband, their
two children, and four family friends in and around the family home. The man also shot at police
with an assault rifle when they arrived at the scene, and even shot a police helicopter six times,
bringing it down. The shooter, who first obtained a concealed carry permit in 1995, and owned
dozens of weapons, including “many” AR-15 assault rifles was badly affected by his mother’s

49
Tony Santaella, James Gilbert & Lauren Eleazer, 4 People Shot in Winnsboro, Suspects in Custody, WLTX –TV
19 COLUMBIA, 18-Mar-10.
50
Corina Knoll, Shooting in Pomona leaves 5 wounded, police say, LOS ANGELES TIMES, 14-Mar-10.
51
Zlati Meyer, Man dead, toddler hurt in Detroit shooting, DETROIT FREE PRESS, 12-Mar-10.
52
Daniel Edward Rosen, Wil Cruz & Edgar Sandoval, Queens father fatally shoots wife, daughters, then turns gun
on self; leaves note that he's 'sorry', NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, 22-Feb-10.
53
Derrick Nunnally, 1 dead, 3 hurt in shooting at N. Phila. Bar, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER, 22-Feb-10.
54
Emanuella Grinberg, Judge sends Alabama university shooting case to grand jury, CNN, 24-Mar-10. Aaron
Cooper & Brooke Baldwin, Police: University shooting suspect was charged after fight in 2002, CNN, 17-Feb-10
55
Jennifer Lebovich, Police, family seek tips in teen's drive-by shooting death, MIAMI HERALD, 3-Feb-10.
56
5 Hospitalized After Milwaukee Tavern Shooting, WTAQ – RADIO WISCONSIN, 21-Jan-10.


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death in 2006 and had reportedly become angry about ownership of the family house and land
that was left jointly to him and his sister.57

Bellville, TX ٠ 1/17/10. A 20-year-old man is charged with shooting and killing his mother,
stepfather, sister, brother and two-year-old niece at the family home. Police believe an “ongoing
family dispute” prompted the shooting.58

Oklahoma City, OK ٠ 1/16/10. Five people were shot at a club, one fatally, late at night.59

Hernando County & Dixie County, FL ٠ 1/14/10. A man shot his sister and her coworker to
death and injured his niece and an employee. The shooter then fled, shooting and killing a
sheriff’s deputy as they pursued him. The shooter had a history of troubling behavior: he had
been arrested before and was described as being “hostile toward law enforcement”, was
investigated by the Secret Service for comments about President Obama, had attacked his
niece and her boyfriend previously, and told family that he wanted to “go on a shooting
rampage.”60

Kennesaw, GA ٠ 1/12/10. A 60-year-old man wearing camouflage opened fire at a truck
leasing company where he used to work. He killed two men and injured three others before
fleeing the scene. Four of the victims were employees and the fifth a customer. The shooter
reportedly had been laid off in July.61

Tulsa, OK ٠ 1/11/10. A man opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle, hitting four people in a
house. One person died. The group had been celebrating the shooter’s birthday when a fight
erupted, prompting the shooter to retrieve an AK-47 and fire on fellow celebrants.62

West Odessa, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Two 20-year-olds were arrested for shooting five young adults,
killing an 18-year-old man, early in the morning.63

Dallas, TX ٠ 1/10/10. Four people were injured when someone in another vehicle opened fire
on their car while on the freeway. The vehicles’ occupants had gotten into a fight at a nightclub
earlier that night.64

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Two men are suspected of shooting and killing three people and
wounding a fourth during a home invasion involving narcotics. Two of the deceased victims
were shot with an assault rifle; the third was shot with a handgun.65

57
Fredrick Kunkle & Josh White, Man is charged with murder in 8 Appomattox shooting, WASHINGTON POST, 21-
Jan-10.
58
Man charged in southeast Texas family slaying, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 20-Jan-10.
59
Club Shooting Kills 1, Injures 4: Police Called To El Dorado Club Just Before Midnight, KOCO- TV 5
OKLAHOMA CITY, 17-Jan-10.
60
Karen Voyles, Death penalty sought in slaying of Dixie captain, GAINESVILLE SUN, 12-Mar-10. Lisa Backus, Fla.
massacre suspect drew police attention, NEW BRITAIN HERALD, 18-Jan-10
61
Mike Morris & Alexis Stevens, Cobb shooter chose victims at random, company official says, ATLANTA JOURNAL
CONSTITUTION, 13-Jan-10.
62
Matt Barnard, Tulsa police: Brawl at birthday party may have led to shootings, TULSA WORLD, 12-Jan-10.
63
Shooting Leaves One Dead, Four Injured in West Odessa, KWES – TV 9 MIDLAND, TX, 10-Jan-10.
64
Dallas freeway shooting leaves 4 wounded, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 10-Jan-10.
65
Leslie Williams, New Orleans police arrest suspect in St. Roch triple homicide, NEW ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE,
12-Jan-10.


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St. Louis, MO ٠ 1/7/10. A 51-year-old man opened fire at the ABB Power plant where he
worked, killing three co-workers and injuring five others, before killing himself. The shooter had
sued his employer over their pension fund in 2006 and the trial had just begun that week. The
shooter fired over 100 rounds and was armed with an assault rifle, a shotgun, and two
handguns.66

New Orleans, LA ٠ 1/7/10. Four people were shot, three fatally, just before midnight. Three
victims were found inside the house, and the last was found in the backyard.67

Butler, MO ٠ 1/1/10. A 26-year-old man shot a 29-year-old woman and her 25-year-old brother
to death at her home early in the morning . The woman's seven-year-old daughter was injured
by a bullet fragment. The shooter fled the scene, but police found him several hour later dead
by a self-inflicted gunshot wound.68




This list is a compilation of mass shootings found in available news outlets. It is not
comprehensive.

66
Liz Robbins, Gunman Kills 3 Co-Workers in St. Louis Factory and Then Himself, NEW YORK TIMES, 7-Jan-10.
Malcom Gay & Liz Robbins, Details Emerge on St. Louis Shooting, but Motive Unclear, NEW YORK TIMES, 8-Jan-
10.
67
3 Dead, 1 Injured in Bywater Shooting, WDSU – TV 6 NEW ORLEANS, 8-Jan-10.
68
Karen Dillion, Brother, sister shot to death; police say suspect took his own life, KANSAS CITY STAR, 1-Jan-10.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
92. Two mass shootings
Assuming you count "mass shooting" as five or more dead.

Hartford, CT ٠ 8/3/10. A disgruntled employee who claimed he had been harassed because he
was African-American, opened fire at the beer distribution factory where he worked. He had just
attended a disciplinary hearing relating to his theft of beer from the company before the
shooting. He killed eight people and injured two before calling his girlfriend and then taking his
own life.

Appomattox, VA ٠ 1/19/10. A 39-year-old man shot and killed his sister, her husband, their
two children, and four family friends in and around the family home. The man also shot at police
with an assault rifle when they arrived at the scene, and even shot a police helicopter six times,
bringing it down. The shooter, who first obtained a concealed carry permit in 1995, and owned
dozens of weapons, including “many” AR-15 assault rifles was badly affected by his mother’s death in 2006 and had reportedly become angry about ownership of the family house and land
that was left jointly to him and his sister.




The number of incidents with four killed was surprisingly high, though. Looks like a big spike from the historical trend.

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #92
98. I was discussing four- just like the OP. And there's a whole lot of them, huh?
Edited on Mon Feb-14-11 12:22 AM by bettyellen
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #98
116. There are several with four or more killed
But far from every entry you listed is 4+.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #92
101. So...
you disagree with the O.P. in his assertion that 4 stabbing deaths is a "massacre", right?

Too funny.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. I'm still waiting for a definition of "massacre" from you.
I'll note that a significant portion of the shootings are gang-related, so maybe one immediate way to stem gun violence is to legalize drugs, which would provide a far more extensive and far more immediate relief than trying to directly or indirectly disarm Americans.


I'll also note that the US homicide rate continues to fall, and is now at its lowest point in 50 years. So no matter how bad it looks when compressed into a post, it's a hell of a lot better than it was.

Finally, there are 44 people murdered daily in this country. About 30 of them are with firearms. So, where is the concern for all the single-victim homicides, which constitute the bulk of dead bodies?

The Brady Campaign is flogging the high body count incidents as a call to action even as the homicide rate continues to slide down.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. I'll go with the criminologists...
Edited on Mon Feb-14-11 10:23 AM by SDuderstadt
dude. They say 4, although a number are inclined to say 3.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/11/pierre-thomas/week-report-says-hundreds-have-died-multiple-victi/

And, who said we're not concerned about single victim homicides?

Stupid strawman and more silly deflection from you, dude.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #104
113. Okay, four. Now we have a basis for comparison


So you're greatly upset about the 0.25% of murder victims killed in mass killings, but not so much about the other 99.75%? You say you're concerned about single victim homicides, but we're all focusing on the victims of mass murder.

:shrug:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Stupid either/or argument...
Edited on Mon Feb-14-11 10:43 PM by SDuderstadt
Look at the subject line of the OP. Stick to arguments I am actually making.

Serious question: do you understand how debate actually works? Can you point to anywhere that I suggested we should not be concerned about single-victim homicides?
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. I look at the subject line of the OP.
Although looking at the article is a bit more interesting. This guy killed four and slashed four others over 28 hours. Can this be considered "one incident" if it happened over 28 hours in various locations? Or would "serial killer" be a more apt phrase?

If he had done this in 30 seconds in a crowded men's bathroom that would definitely be a massacre (4+ dead). But is this one?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. Now you're playing word games around...
the lack of standardization of the terminology, dude.

I ain't playing. But, irrespective of how you play it, your claim of only "one or two" is dead wrong.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. Yanno what, I think I made a mistake before
Page 124 of this DOJ document:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

I thought the data was interpreted as "the number of victims killed in incidents with X murders per incident". In other words, in the 1994 data, with "28" listed for 4 victims per incident, I thought this simply meant there were 7 incidents with 4 victims each, totally 28.


However, looking closer and doing some math with info on page 124 and page 10, it looks like the data on page 124 is, in fact, the number of incidents.

In 1999, there were 28 cases with 4 victims killed in a single instance, totaling 112 victims total. Or about one every two weeks.

I was in error to say there were "one or two a year".

Using the "four or more corpses" criteria we agreed on, it looks this:





Although the data is not broken down specifically by weapon type, on page 128 it is said that 75% of multi-victim homicide incidents are done with a gun, compared to 67% of single-victim incidents.

So assuming about 32 mass-murder incidents a year (4+ victims per incident), then the number of about 24 a year seems to be a reasonable estimate.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. I TOLD you...
nonetheless, it takes a lot to admit a mistake.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. Misleading chart title...
*sigh*

...nonetheless, the numbers for this year don't seem to be unusually high.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
87. "Fact" "always" "certain"
I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #87
96. I know precisely what...
they mean, dude.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Okay, we'll add "precisely" to the list,
Dude.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Too funny...
you guys are such a hoot.
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Libertarian_Mike Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. How many more could have been killed

if he had been a suicide bomber?

Or if he was a bus driver and drove off a bridge with a load of people?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. See posts #...
14 and 16, "Libertarian Mike".
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. In japan, a guy killed 7 people and injured 19 with a knife. That's worse than the arizona shooting.
Yes, the weapon can make it easier in some cases. Hard to imagine a more powerful weapon in Loughner's case, than what he had (except perhaps an actual automatic weapon) and he killed fewer people than a yahoo with a knife, in one of the most controlled (firearm-law) nations in the world.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. How many do you think the guy in Japan...
would've killed or wounded with a gun?


Stupid argument.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. Maybe fewer... guns are loud and alerted people might run.
It's impossible to say what "could" have been.
Only possible to say was "was".

How many people could Loughner have killed by driving a speeding Ford Explorer through the crowd?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. "it is impossible to say what could have been"
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 01:21 PM by SDuderstadt
More bullshit. So what if people ran? That's really not a insurmountable hurdle for a shooter. We have plenty of information and statistics to make projections from.

"More guns" advocates REALLY need to bone up on critical thinking and debating tactics.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. Possibly more, possibly less.
Hard to say without. Are you suggesting that Loughner lacked the tools to cause as much mayhem as absolutely possible?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Of course...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 05:33 PM by SDuderstadt
there are other significant variables besides the weapon. Are you suggesting that, with the same situation as Rougher operated within, he could have inflicted as much damage with a knife?

This "debate" is rapidly descending into even more silliness.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Possibly yes.
We are of course, arguing a point that cannot be proven either way.

Certainly people can use edged or pointed weapons to great effect. Certainly people can use firearms to great effect. Obviously firearms have supplanted even swords for actual miltiary usage.

But in close quarters, in a crowd, when the armed person initaties hostility without warning, I would argue the implement chosen can be quite irrelevant. Knives do not have to be reloaded. Firearms issue a 'warning' to surrounding people with every shot fired.

It's an interesting question at least.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Oh, please...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 05:57 PM by SDuderstadt
give us a scenario whereby Loughner could have inflicted as much damage with a knife, keeping all the other variables the same.

This is rapidly becoming stupid in denial. If you guys strain any more than you already have, you're lamely to develop hemorrhoids of the brain.

Too funny.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. I already cited one.
It happened 2008 in Japan. He obviously used a knife because firearms are not generally available at all. He killed one more than Loughner did.

Not a hypothetical, it actually happened.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I said...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 06:13 PM by SDuderstadt
with the same, exact variables. Same setting, same area, same distances, etc. You're trying to conflate the Japanese incident with the very different circumstances of the Loughner incident.

This is getting dumber by the moment.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. It's impossible to know.
I have yet to see the security footage of how the Arizona incident went down. How close was he to people?

Police are trained to shoot knife-wielding suspects at 21 feet or less. Look up the Tuller Drill.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. It is not, dude...
I realize it serves your argument to pretend otherwise, but you are straining believability, especially by throwing the Tuller Drill in there. All your flailing about does not make your argument more cogent.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Call it flailing about all you want.
I don't underestimate people with edged weapons and nefarious intent. I would treat a gun-wielding attacker and a knife wielding attacker, the same.

Wouldn't you? Both are capable of inflicting mortal harm to 1+ people.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Dude...
distance is nowhere near the hurdle for a shooter than it is for a knife-wielder. It makes no difference whether you have seen the surveillance tape of the Giffords shooting or not. You simply cannot describe a scenario in which Loughner would have inflicted nearly as much damage wielding a knife instead. If you can, please do. "Flailing" is a perfect description for what you are engaged in.

I hardly expect you to see it.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #67
81. I cannot even describe Loughner's scenario.
Again, they refuse to release the surveilance tapes. I don't know how close he was to each victim, for instance. I suspect, but cannot prove at the moment, that his reload was thwarted by the extended mag itself. They are unreliable, and not used by the military outside one specific use for the Glock 18 (a submachine gun, more or less like a 9mm Uzi).

A person with a knife doesn't have to worry as much about aim either. There are plusses and minuses to both weapons, depending on your intent, and your victims.

I am not all-knowing enough to say Loughner couldn't have accomplished the same thing with a knife. I can certainly point to multiple fatal stabbing and slashing victims in multiple incidents. Knife attacks, fatal and non fatal, make up a significant portion of our murder rate, and aggravated assault statistics.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. A person with a knife...
has to concern themselves with their proximity to their intended victim.

Are you honestly suggesting the incidence of mass stabbing is on the same level as shootings?? If so, please provide some evidence of it.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #82
102. A person with a gun
has to be able to hit a man-sized moving target. With a handgun, that means proximity is a concern as well.

I did not say mass stabbings are on the same level as shootings. However, I will say, they exist, even in countries where firearms are available (and single-stabbings are a significant portion of overall violent crime in the US) and in countries such as the UK and Japan, where guns are tightly controlled or virtually non-existent among the population, knife attacks figure much larger in statistics, and in public policy debate. For instance, you need ID to purchase normal kitchen knives in the UK, and they are testing knives that cannot be used for stabbing purposes for marketability.

It's a wierd world, yes?

Proficiency with a gun is a factor. Personally, I would rather face a person with a gun that is not versed in it's use, than a person with a knife that does. (all other things being equal, including the person's intent to harm me.)
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
88. Dunno. Does he even know how to shoot a gun?
Apparently he knows how to wield a knife.

A weapon is truly dangerous in the hands of someone who (1) knows how to use it and (2) is willing to do so.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. Probably less because guns make a lot of noise and he would have been caught sooner
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Bullshit...
you guys are straining here.

If your premise were true, wouldn't knives be the weapon of choice in mass killings?
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
106. The largest nongovernment run mass killing in recent history involves bladed weapons
People decide to use guns to kill because society is constantly being told that is what guns are for. The children of anti gun parents are constantly told guns are evil and only for killing so when they buy their first gun that's naturally one thing they think of doing with it.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-11 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
123. Irrelevant; the guy killed as many people as he wanted
Whether he could have killed more people if he'd used a gun is beside the point. Not having a gun didn't stop him from killing as many people as he wanted, and thus we can reasonably assume that if he had had a gun, he wouldn't have killed more, even if he theoretically could have.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Obviously, all knives must be segmented
So they break off a segment after each stabbing.



It is irresponsible to have knives capable of stabbing more than 10 people without reloading. Yes, yes, yes, having knives that can only be used for legitimate purposes 10 times will inconvenience some, but if it saves one life...

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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. Nobody needs to
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 11:43 AM by Katya Mullethov
Be carrying around 5 knives and especially not 5 knives with 10 segments each . Immediately after Islamic Jihadists used these cheap and readily available killing machines to kill several thousands of people at a swat , I sincerely felt it would be the precipitating event , or the crises that would lead to meaningful changes to protect the rights of victims of illegal knife crime .

But they weren't added to the prohibited weapons lists with switch blades and tomahawks and saps . This has perplexed me greatly , the knife industry is quite the formidable opponent , and fighting it with hyperbole and hand wringing isnt the easiest way , but it is the only way for me .

You know , I own a few knives , and I cherish my right to own a knife . But there isnt any reason anyone would need to carry one of those around in public .
Hell ! I know a retired Volunteer Fireman ! And he carries a knife too. This one time ,while we were jacking each other's pencil necked egos off , he told me there
wasnt anything you could do with a box cutter that he couldn't do better with his finely honed Case Sod Buster . I tried to bring up the Spyderco fanboys who wear
their multi colored penile enlargers in nylon sheathes that they stuff down their trousers or wear on their hips and thrust in everyone's faces like like overstuffed feathered codpieces ....I then dutifully informed him of the possibility of a khukri rampage by some flag burning tea party thug , but he had fallen asleep in my chair .


ETA the "s" in codpieces , there are so many these days . Prancing about .
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
83. Perhaps a waiting period, then? And a one-knife-per-month policy?
And we can't have knives that have ergonomic grips... that might encourage people to use them!
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #83
105. Do you know any retired volunteer fireman that hunt ?
You need credentials to respond to my responses .
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'll take a guy with a knife ANYTIME over a gun. So would Gabby and her victims! Dumb argument!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Isn't it?
I've never found "more guns" advocates to be particularly good at critical thinking or debate.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
43.  If he is close enough to use it, he is too close to miss. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Which is why I'd...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 01:00 PM by SDuderstadt
much rather face a guy with a knife than a gun, because he has to get close enough to me to use it.

The guy with the gun faces no such hurdle.
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Blown330 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. Except trying to hit the target.
You may not understand with your lack of experience, but most people will not make a center-mass hit at near point-blank range when stressed.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You have no idea what...
my experience is, dude. Nice try.
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Blown330 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. And you...
Edited on Sun Feb-13-11 06:56 PM by Blown330
...have no idea what you are talking about. No one with any type of formal training and practical experience would make an assumption like yours. Too easy.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Dude...
Please. Why are the vast majority of mass killings of the type we are talking about committed with a forearm? Are you suggesting you would choose a knife?
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. DUDE
Dude, dude dude dude, dude dude dude dude dude dude, DUDE!
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #85
94. Dude!


The Dude abides.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
109. You might regret that choice.
The "bringing a knife to a gunfight" barb doesn't always work.

Assuming the guy with the knife intiates the attack, he can be a 300 pound tub of lard and cross 21 feet faster than you can realize you are under attack, draw and fire. Police train for such an attack, called the Tueller Drill

Another difference that many discount is that when someone pulls a gun they do it with the expectation that is enough to intimidate. The homeowner confronting a burglar who thinks showing a gun will cause burglar to flee or freeze.

An assailant using a knife rarely bluffs. When a knife gets pulled it is a lot more likely somebody is getting cut. The knife has the advantage of stealth. Depending on the attacker's skill, the victim will do no more than gently gurgle as he expires.

You read comments all the time, incensed that the policeman defending himself shot the man armed “only” with a knife: “How come they couldn’t shoot him in the leg or arm? Why do they fire 2 rounds instead of trying to disable him. It was a knife not a gun. Shame on police!”

So, I am posting these graphic photographs of a police officer, all cut up. They point out the fallacy of thinking that it’s “just a knife.” There really crazed, bloodthirsty, KNIFE slashers on drugs, or drunk, who aren’t actors on TV and who do not automatically stop and lie down after you shoot them once so that you will stop shooting at them.








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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. This isn't possible. It's relatively easy to disarm someone with a knife. Ask around. n/t
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
119. The lowly icepick
The standard bullet proof vests like cops wear will stop a .357 magnum. What they won't stop is a knife. Icepicks are even harder to stop. If you can't figure out why, ask yourself how do they sew them together?

Not much of the body armor available is "shank proof" although there has been some work done on specialized vests for jail and prison guards. What vests that are out there in terms of being shank proof are really bulky or only offers protection against blades and not bullets.

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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
74. A knife is a very stealthy weapon. A guy can stab multiple people before anyone even figures out
Something is going on and if the murderer goes quickly from one person to the next he can stab more people in a crowded area than a shooter can get away with. This is why stabbings in china that occurred all in the same area result in more victims than when shooters do all of their shooting in the same area (as opposed to going from room to room).

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. More bullshit...
we're not talking about China here, are we...

Why are mass stabbings so rare here and mass shootings so prevalent by comparison?
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Blown330 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. why don't you tell us why...
...the UK (very strict gun laws) is seeing the number of assaults involving knifes and edged weapons double every two years. They are trying to deal with their own "knife culture" problems. Guess after they ban the personal ownership of knives they'll have to worry about forks and knitting needles.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Nice strawman, dude...
Show me where I have advocated banning guns or anything else.

Spare me the NRA talking points, dude.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #77
108. Like I wrote before, it's because the anti gun side spreads around the idea guns
Are only for killing and so when someone who was told all his life that guns are only for killing what do you think they will do with it?

Just to let you know, china has 40 million civilian owned guns, third largest civilian gun arsenal in the world which is 40/290 or 14% the size of the USA, do they have 14% as many mass shootings?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
93. After trying to follow all the totally illogical...
"arguments" you guys make, maybe the Earps and Doc Holiday made a huge mistake by taking guns to the OK Corral. They should have taken knives.

Can I also assume you guys would prefer to defend your homes with knives?

Too funny.
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57_TomCat Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #93
111. For personal defense...
I prefer a gun as it gives me the ability to control a larger area than a knife or machete. In addition as a homeowner I prefer an extended magazine that holds more bullets for my home defense gun. When off duty I do not have access to the tools of instant communication with a dispatcher. I too have to call 911 and report my emergency. As a cop when on duty I can attest to the fact that when seconds counts...the cops are minutes away. I might need those bullets while waiting for the cavalry. In addition as a person who has dealt with knife wielding people before...the knife scares me much more. Wicked weapons with lots of potential for unhappiness. I am greatfull that more people do not use them for mass murder.

The point however is even though in this country the gun is often the weapon of choice for aggravated assault, the knife has as much or more potential to be a weapon of destruction. The most obvious fact from the OP is that knives can,will and have been used for mass murder and mayhem. More so in some cultures or due to other circumstances.

As such the meme of guns being the problem is wrong. Guns often contribute to the problem but are not the cause of the problem. The vast number of guns in the legal possession of citizens that are NOT used for murder or mayhem is proof. Criminal mindset and intent is the problem.

What makes me happy is he did not use the stolen car to mow down vast numbers of innocents. That car is far more dangerous than a gun or knife when it comes to mass murder in crowded city environments.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Thank you for your service. As a side note
You ain't gonna win any friends amongst the anti-gun advocates with your post, but then, I suspect you don't care what some anonymous poster on a website says.

You know what time it is.
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