Father and son guilty of gun racket

[beevul]

"Father and son guilty of gun racket"

"William Mitchell Greenwood, 76, and Mitchell Verne Greenwood, 42, from South Wingfield, Derbyshire, sold hundreds of guns from their shop."

"Convicted criminals told police how they had been sold the weapons and given advice on reactivating them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/3416831.stm

This can't be true. Guns are esentially banned in England. This must be part of that phony English bloodbath 'dems keeps bringing up. Who are they trying to kid. They're actually listening to what convicted criminals say? What a pantload.

[alwynsw]

1. Guns make a racket?

Convicted criminals are definitely reliable informants. It's probably a little "getting even" going on here. Pop and Son likely sold the stuff, but didn't give any or insufficient info on refurbishing. But then, if they did - they deserve what they got.

More victims of asinine firearms control on all sides of this story.

(Hey, that statement makes as much sense as claiming a crook was defending himself against a homeowner.)

[demsrule4life]

2. That monstrous Glock 18

makes one hell of a racket.

[MrSandman]

3. But a gun ban won't create a black market...

[alwynsw]

4. Of course it won't.

And I'm selling ocean front property in Denver.

[beevul]

5. Let this...

serve as an example to lunatic asswipes everywhere. The dishonest and corrupt "deactivated gun industry" knows no borders, distance, or limits. Thier tentacles touch every nation on earth.:eyes:

[Spentastic]

6. Er? What's your problem.

I'd guess that the "convicted criminals" in the course of their conviction were asked where they got their guns. These two criminals were supplying the black market and are now going to serve serious jail time.

This is evidence of the application of laws to restrict firearms supply being applied and working.

[beevul]

7. No offense.

My original mention of convicted criminals was a vague reference pointing out that some folks *selectively* listen to the testimony of convicted criminals on the basis of whether it supports their position or not.

The rest was being facetious.

"This is evidence of the application of laws to restrict firearms supply being applied and working."

I wonder if the fact that there IS a black market might be evidence to the contrary. I could do a search for a person put away for MJ trafficking, and say the same of him and our idiotic drug war. "This is evidence of the application of laws to restrict MJ supply being applied and working." Well, just because I said it does not make it true.


"Senior police officers are now seeking discussions with the Government in the hope of amending laws which, they say, do little to prevent the trade in illegal weapons."

"In total, it is believed 4,000 weapons made their way from the Greenwoods onto the streets and into paramilitary arms stores."

"It is believed that as many as 3,000 of their weapons remain in circulation."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/3431355.stm

I'm not sure 25 percent recovery of a single source of black market firearms is what I would characterize as working. Someone else will take the place of those 2 as a source well before the other 3000 firearms are recovered.

Prohibition of any kind is a rinse and repeat proposition so long as theres money in it, and people are willing to get around the law by breaking it. History is replete with such failures.

[Spentastic]

8. Come now

It's your side that happily plays the "criminals don't obey the laws" card as often as possible.

There is also black market in stolen mobile phones. Does that mean that laws prohibiting mobile phone theft are pointless? Of course not. The enforcement of such laws is designed to have a dterrent effect. If this effect fails then jailing of offenders removes them from the general population.

In this particular case, yes someone may take their place. They too may get caught and go to prison.

The simple fact is that the U.K populace in general do not accept that firearm use for self defence outweighs the danger of widespread firearm ownership.

As for your example. If you did catch and imprison and MJ trafficker you would have restricted supply. That doesn't make it right. That's the problem with the drug war. Enforcement is not the issue. Illegality is. Comparing gund and MJ I'm afraid is apples and oranges.

[MrSandman]

9. Both are prior restraint on liberty.

There is at least one study from the CDC that has concluded there is no evidence that any gun control law has had an effect on crime in the U.S.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm
Yet, without affirmative evidence, anti-gun groups, many small, but well-funded, desire to execise prior restraint on the liberties of gun owners. In their zeal, the 4th(freedom from search, etc.),5th(due process), and 1st(association)amendments rights are often infringed.

The same things occur in the WOD.

Apples and oranges, but still fruit.


ed to add link...s

[Spentastic]

11. Liberty?

There is no "right" to bear arms in the U.K.

If you are going to argue restraint on liberty then why am I not allowed to murder and eat my next door neighbour?

The U.K does O.K without widespread firearms ownership. We have far fewer gun crimes and far fewer gun deaths. Why is it that the pro gunners seem to point to the U.K as some sort of failure?

[MrSandman]

12. My apologies...

I was comparing gun control and the WOD in the context of US Constitution. I am unable to comment on UK.

I think UK had far fewer gun crimes/gun deaths prior to any bans. Gun control advocates point to UK as model for their ideal in US. That is why weaknesses are explored.

[MrBenchley]

14. For that matter

the "right" to bear arms here is only in the context of a well regulated militia, i.e., the National Guard...as the Amendment actually says and the courts have affirmed time and time again.

"Why is it that the pro gunners seem to point to the U.K as some sort of failure?"
Because without lies there would be no gun rights argument? All I know is that the phony UK bloodbath pops up here with monotonous regularity, and the RKBA crowd seems to be under the delusion that Brits are helplessly barricaded in their homes (like the family in Hitchcock's The Birds), vainly phoning their tyrannical rulers begging for assault weapons and pistol permits.

[MrBenchley]

13. Too frigging funny

"There is at least one study from the CDC"
You do realize that the GOP Congress has forbidden the CDC from collecting any evidence or conducting any studies that might show gun control works?

[MrBenchley]

10. Hard to see what the hell

the RKBA crowd is getting at here.....is it supposed to be some sort of tragedy that what these crooks did is illegal? Are we supposed to think England were better off if activities like these were legal and there were hundreds such criminals operating freely?