CCRKBA Urges 'Final Push' by CCW Supporters in Wisconsin

[beevul]

"BELLEVUE, Wash., Jan. 28 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Rescheduling of a veto override vote in Wisconsin until Thursday has given backers of personal safety legislation one more day to lobby lawmakers in Madison in an effort to see concealed carry become a reality in the Badger State."

"The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) today renewed its call to Wisconsin gun owners to utilize the toll-free Legislative Hotline [phone]) to contact their representatives."

"Much attention appears focused on Rep. Gary Sherman, a Democrat who co-sponsored the concealed carry legislation. As the vote nears, Waldron suggested that Wisconsin gun owners also call in messages to Sherman's office, reminding him of their support for his efforts. Last Nov. 6, Sherman wrote in the Ashland Daily Press, "In my very first assembly campaign in 1998, I made my support for concealed carry very clear and I have not changed my view.""


"Rep. Sherman needs to know Wisconsin gun owners are grateful for his sponsorship of concealed carry legislation," Waldron noted. "Firearms owners need to let him know that they won't forget his important vote on this issue. We've seen nothing to suggest that Rep. Sherman would turn his back on legislation he's co- sponsored, much less on the people who elected him in 1998, based on his support for concealed carry."

""Gun owners also need to contact Reps. John Steinbrink, Amy Sue Vruwink and Terry Van Akkeren," Waldron stated. "They all voted for concealed carry and it would not be surprising to see them under intense partisan pressure to switch their votes. Even the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel suggested that one or two lawmakers may switch their votes, to 'support their party's governor'. Well, these lawmakers need to be reminded that they don't work for the party or the governor, but the law-abiding citizens who have earned the right to join with, and be equal to, citizens in 37 other states with sensible right-to-carry personal protection laws.""



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usnw/20040128/pl_usnw/ccrkba_urges__final_push__by_ccw_supporters_in_wisconsin144_xml

[StClone]

1. Mary Sue has my E-mail

Her electronic e-mail has my opinion on what I think of her and her support for this POS legislation.

Since the *&^%$%/)? Republican take over of Wisconsin we have such wonders as Dove Hunting and "Personal Safety" (AKa guns everywhere).

[MrBenchley]

2. Republicans and Bad Government

are synonymous.

[MrSandman]

3. Like the pro-gun Republicans in NM...

Wait they are pro-gun Democrats. Like KY, WV, et al.

[TyroneStryker]

41. What's wrong with

Dove hunting and protecting one's self?

[beevul]

4. I like...

"Well, these lawmakers need to be reminded that they don't work for the party or the governor, but the law-abiding citizens"

this statement, in the general sense.

I think ALL lawmakers could use a refresher course of that.

[MrSandman]

5. WV may be a one party state...

but the politicians are more responsive to the voters than many states. The primaries are usually the big show. Elected courts help prevent the tyranny IMO.

[davidinalameda]

29. not really

being from West Virginia--let me enlighten you on a few facts

the state is not technically a one party state--you have two factions vying for control--the conservative Democrats and the Repukes and the moderate and liberal Democrats. If the conservative Democrats lived anywhere else, they would be Repukes.

and the elected judges are worthless. You have the State Supreme Court that is effectively split between moderates and conservatives. They won't do anything that could possibly alienate their base supporters.

[MrSandman]

42. Traditional, inclusive Democratic Party...

Two factions of the same party. Some of the conservative Democrats may not qualify as Democrats elsewhere. Same can be said of other states.
Since real competition in most of the state is at the primary level, there are not the "party line" issues. Not having experienced two-party politics at the state level, I could be mistaken about the party loyalty issue at state level politics. Maybe it's a function of a smaller population. Nonetheless, I find my state legislators responsive to their constituency.

At the Circuit Court level, elections of Judges are an anointment. Judgeships seem to be determined by local Party. They are seldom opposed. I do not recall an opposed Circuit Judgeship in the elections. The last retirement in our Circuit was filled by mid-term appointment and he was unopposed in reelection.

At the State Supreme Court level, I believe that some accountability is a good thing. Most of the controversial decisions I recall being made were the right thing to do. Mostly to do with schools and taxation.

No elected political body in WV will solve our major environmental issues from coal extraction. I fear only Federal intervention will spare the coalfields.

on edit...whereabouts in WV...S

[Superfly]

6. Well, all you nay sayers...

I have to point out that you are effectively PISSING UPHILL against RKBA....

[MrSandman]

7. At least one of the reds will soon be blue...

will it be MO or WI...or both?

[Superfly]

8. My bet is on both...

...

[MrSandman]

9. I would bet on MO, Have to defer on WI

http://www.john-ross.net/mosc.htm

[FeebMaster]

31. Hey

it's former Democratic candidate for Missouri's 2nd Congressional district John Ross. Unfortunately, he lost.

[CO Liberal]

10. Just Because Something's Popular Doesn't Make It Right

Slavery and segregation were once popular, too.......

[DonP]

11. Just like those evil and repressive laws ...

they stayed the law of the land until a majority of duly elected representatives of the people, pressured by citizens groups from John Brown and the Quakers to MLK Jr., changed the laws to do the right thing.

Same thing here. Another repressive law is being changed in a lot of states to do the right thing.

Unless of course you choose to believe that every state with CCW, inlcuding CO and NJ, is really secretly run by the corrupt gun industry (can we all agree to start using CGI as a standard abbreviation and SP for Steaming Pantload?) and the Republicans?

[MrBenchley]

13. Whatever happened to that Martin Luther King, Jr?

It's absurd and disgusting to hear the RKBA crowd invoke noted pacifists in their quest to get a handful of neurotics pistol permits at the expense of public safety....or to pretend that it is some noble principle.

Especially since Martin Luther King, Jr., died by gun violence.

But there's no comment too low or dishonest for the RKBA crowd.

(By the way, that guy John Brown...did he use individual guns or seize a bunch of collectively owned ones?)

[Superfly]

15. Likewise

It's absurd and disgusting with the anti-RKBA crowd would deny a person from carrying a means to protect him or herself and not have an answer for how "public safety" can be assured all citizens at all time. I don't have a Police Officer as my bodyguard and until I do, I choose to defend MYSELF from those who would wish me harm and not rely on others.

[MrBenchley]

26. Really?

You think the aim of civvilization is to have an armed police officer traipsing about behind each citizen at every moment?

You aought to trade places with Winston Smith.

[TyroneStryker]

33. Go peddle that pile

of Brady horsecrap somewhere else.

[DavidMS]

45. Pacifism is problematic.

There are diffrent tatics for diffrent times. Sometimes armed insurection against an illegamate goverment is most approperate (for instance the Athenian revolt against the thrity tyrants) other times civil disobedence is more approperate (see Ghandi). However, there are limits to what civil disobedence can accomplish and its part of a larger spectrum of direct action. The approperate response depends on the nature of the political conflict, the spirit of the age, the level of support behind the cause and the resources availiable to the combatants.

King died, not because someone shot him with a rifle but because he was a public and symbolic face of the african american strugle for equality under the law. He was shot, yes but it had nothing to do with the method of killing him. It was because he was a threat to the established social order.

John Brown and fellow revolutionaries used privately held arms to attempt storming the federal arsinal at Harper's Ferry. The goal was to sease the arms within and arm the slave population of the region for a revolt.

As a side note, during the Bleeding Kansas era (1857), both Abolitionist and Slave holders engaged in violent clashes. Abolitionsits like Henry Ward Brecher helped raise money to send colionits and rifles to the then-terratory.

http://spider.georgetowncollege.edu/htallant/courses/his338/students/nhewitt/slavery.htm

The rifles used were called sharps carbines and were (please correct me if wrong) the "assault weapon" of choice of that era. They were early breach loading rifles and compared to their muzel loading contempoaries faster to load and fire.

[MrSandman]

12. Equating slavery to guns?

I don't see any equivalence.

[CO Liberal]

14. People Claim a Right To Own Guns

People once claimed a right to own people.

[Superfly]

16. Whatever it takes, CO....

I don't care if it's the right or the left or the Marxist party pushing CCW. It's the right thing to do.

Human beings have the right to defend themselves and not rely on others or the government for that defense.

They have the right to meet violence with violence and to deny them that is wrong.

[CO Liberal]

18. And No One Has The Right...

...to inflict violence on another person. Which is why I favor reasonable gun control.

[Superfly]

20. That is correct...(the first part)

but until you figure out a way to prevent somebody from inflicting harm on others, I choose to pack the deadliest fucking gun I can get my hand on. Sorry.

[alwynsw]

22. This about sums it up for me

[CO Liberal]

23. More "Pink Pistols" Crap

Aren't you guys getting tired of going to that site yet????

:eyes:

[Superfly]

27. They have a good message...

"take your security in your own hands. Grow up, be an adult, and defend yourself." (paraphrased)

[MrBenchley]

32. <sarcasm>Boycott gays and pro-gays

Trust your friends like Pat Buchanan and Fred Phelps</sarcasm>....

[TyroneStryker]

34. People once claimed the right

to deny blacks freedom. Currently the antis deny the right to self defense with the best tool possible. Simple, isn't it?

[MrBenchley]

17. Gee, the neoConfederates don't have that myopia

They can see the connection quite clearly. Just ask Pat Buchanan.

"Talk turned to gun control; Buchanan talked about the six-year-old shooter in a recent incident "living in a crack house." Um, Pat, it wasn't the drugs that killed the other child -- it was a GUN.
Tim then attacked Pat for his ties to Southern Partisan magazine, a racist neoconfederate rag run by Richard Quinn. Tim showed some of the goods sold by the magazine -- including bumper stickers that use words such as "fag." Pat tried to distance himself from the magazine -- with no success."

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20000312PunditPap.html

Or pro gun John AshKKKroft:
"Senator Ashcroft’s votes on legislation pertaining to civil rights matters underscore his insensitivity to the rights of minorities and women and his lack of commitment to full equality for all, as do other actions that he has taken during his term in the Senate.
For example, Senator Ashcroft in 2000 voted against the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which would have amended federal law to recognize hate crimes based on sexual orientation, gender and disability, as well as expanded federal jurisdiction over these and other hate crimes already covered under federal law.
In 1998, Ashcroft was interviewed in the magazine Southern Partisan, which caters to a small group of neo-Confederate southerners and has been a major forum for neo-Confederate views, including the recurring theme that slavery was beneficial to the slaves. In his interview, Ashcroft praised the magazine for "help to set the record straight" against what he called Other examples of Ashcroft’s negative record on civil rights and indifference to the rights of women and minorities.
In addition to the inappropriate and disturbing manner in which he has dealt with the nominations of a number of minority and female nominees for Executive Branch and judicial positions, Senator Ashcroft’s votes on legislation pertaining to civil rights matters underscore his insensitivity to the rights of minorities and women and his lack of commitment to full equality for all, as do other actions that he has taken during his term in the Senate.
For example, Senator Ashcroft in 2000 voted against the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which would have amended federal law to recognize hate crimes based on sexual orientation, gender and disability, as well as expanded federal jurisdiction over these and other hate crimes already covered under federal law.
In 1998, Ashcroft was interviewed in the magazine Southern Partisan, which caters to a small group of neo-Confederate southerners and has been a major forum for neo-Confederate views, including the recurring theme that slavery was beneficial to the slaves. In his interview, Ashcroft praised the magazine for "help to set the record straight" against what he called "attacks the revisionists have brought against our founders." "

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1134

Or pro-gun Trent Lott....

"The great majority of Americans don't share Mr. Lott's views. For example, he opposed declaring Martin Luther King day a holiday, telling Southern Partisan magazine that "we have not done it for a lot of other people that were more deserving." Most Americans, I think, believe that King was pretty deserving.
So why is Mr. Lott in a position of such power?
The Republican Party's longstanding "Southern strategy" — which rests on appealing to the minority of voters who do share Mr. Lott's views — is no secret. But because the majority doesn't share those views, the party must present two faces to the nation. And therein lies the clue to Mr. Lott's role."

http://senrs.com/the_other_face.htm

The neoConederate idiots at the League of the South certainly have no problem seeing it (get your barf bag ready)...
"White men with guns are to be cast as the real threat to democratic society in America. In contrast, all "dark skinned" people (e.g. Muslim, black, Hispanic, Arab, etc.) are merely victims (or potential victims) who must be protected from evil, racist white men with guns. Actually, the issue runs even a bit deeper still. The illicit government in Washington, DC, and its junior partners on the State and local levels, know that the real threat to the tyranny they pursue is most likely to come from vigilant white men with guns who are jealous of their constitutional liberties. Conversely, most "dark skinned" people have shown little aversion to the various forms of totalitarian government in our modern age. In fact, "big government" poses as the friend and protector of the "dark skinned" masses everywhere. Nowhere is this more evident than in America's current immigration policy and Washington's firm commitment to multiculturalism and diversity (the new civic religion). The resulting "browning of America" is seen as a good thing by white liberals and yadda yadda yadda"

http://www.dixienet.org/ls-press-releases/LS-special-reports/ls-special-index.html

[Superfly]

19. Bait and switch

and one hell of a strawman...

[MrBenchley]

28. "gun rights" and good old-fashioned racism

They sure go hand in hand...and the same specimens stir each pot.

[TyroneStryker]

35. Surrrrrrrrrrrrrre

[alwynsw]

50. What a steaming pantload

""gun rights" and good old-fashioned racism"

They sure go hand in hand...and the same specimens stir each pot.

Get a new line. I'm RKBA. My family is multiracial and I'm damned proud of it. I know I'm not alone in that.

Try a real argument for once. You might find it more challenging and rewarding than constantly trotting out racist horseshit.

[beevul]

21. I would like to hear ...

what the folks have to say about Reps. John Steinbrink, Amy Sue Vruwink and Terry Van Akkeren and Gary Sherman.


I applaud them for representing thier constituency, and voting for an issue that contributed to the election of at least on of them, according to the article.

""We've seen nothing to suggest that Rep. Sherman would turn his back on legislation he's co- sponsored, much less on the people who elected him in 1998, based on his support for concealed carry.""

Noone has said much about them.

[alwynsw]

24. Here's the need for CCW in a nutshell

[CO Liberal]

25. "Nutshell" Is The Operative Word

You need to stay away from that damn "Pink Pistols" site......

[alwynsw]

30. Nah. I'm gonna join.

I'll probably be the only straight member in my chapter.

(At least someone took my pun bait.)

on edit; What irony! Pink Pistols slips into the discussion. I reply. It's the 30th post (shich starts the flames on the thread in the forum lobby). I love it! Does that make me a flamer? (This thought comes from Wally, our gay housekeeper. Leave it to him to find a flamer reference.)

[TyroneStryker]

36. Do you have something about gays being armed...

...and able to fight back? What about me? Am I allowed to fight back against the punks in my neighborhood? Would you prefer everybody to be good little victims? Tell us, is nonviolence the answer? Do we just let the punks take over?

[CO Liberal]

38. Then Disarm The Punks

You don't need to arm everybody.

[MrBenchley]

39. Are you kidding?

Why, then there'd be no rationale for neurotics to lug popguns around in their pockets!

By the way, check out the third headline down on the right under "In the News"...

http://www.theonion.com/

[beevul]

46. You mean the one below ...

this one?

"Woman With Amazing Rack Told She Has Beautiful Eyes"

Never seen the onion before bench.

There appears to be no way to read either story though.

[MrBenchley]

47. Yeah, beev...

the one right after story number one is story number three....

"There appears to be no way to read either story though."
Click harder...maybe it will go through for you.

[beevul]

48. Made me laugh bench.

Click harder...LOL.

[alwynsw]

49. Now we know who handled the intel for the Chinese Army

Some may recall that last year, The Onion ran a spoof stating that corporate sponsors were being sought for U.S. military bases. Ft. Knox might become Sprint U.S. Military park or somesuch for a fee to help reduce the deficit. An intel weenie took the story as factual and put it in the intel alert that's distributed to the top military brass and government of China.

When the true nature of The Onion was pointed out by a laughing world, the Chinese attempted to save face by replying that the intelligence estimate would stand until further study on the matter was completed.

Welcome to the Chinese intelligence community.

[MrBenchley]

51. Never heard of that...

but I do know the Onion knows what "gun rights" is all about, and regularly gives it their own special treatment:

"NORFOLK, VA—Gun owners nationwide are applauding the patriotic, though accidental, exercise of Second Amendment rights by 8-year-old Timothy Cummings Tuesday.
Above: Timothy Cummings
"Timothy is a symbol of American heroism," said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre from Cummings' bedside at Norfolk General Hospital, where the boy is in serious but stable condition from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. "While praying for his recovery, we should all thank God that his inalienable right to keep and bear arms has not been infringed."
The incident occurred shortly after Cummings returned from school and found that his parents were absent from the house. Displaying what Second Amendment-rights groups are calling "good old-fashioned American ingenuity," Cummings placed a pair of phone books on a stool to retrieve his father's loaded .38-caliber revolver from its hiding place on a closet shelf. After a preliminary backyard investigation of his constitutional rights claimed the life of Pepper, the family's cocker spaniel, Cummings fell on the weapon, causing it to discharge into his left thigh."

http://www.theonion.com/onion3520/second_amendment.html

"HUNTSVILLE, AL—Jesus Christ, son of God and noted pro-life activist, killed two and critically wounded seven others when He opened fire in the waiting room of a Huntsville abortion clinic Tuesday.
Security guards at the Women's Medical Clinic of Huntsville were able to disarm the Messiah before He could reload His weapon, a secondhand Glock 9mm pistol that authorities said He purchased legally at a Jackson, MS, sporting-goods store."

http://www.theonion.com/onion3417/abortion_clinic_attack.html

[TyroneStryker]

40. How do you plan on doing that?

In the meantime, how should one defend himself against the punks. I await your answer.

[alwynsw]

44. A case in point in your area

Paul Kordenbrock. He robbed a pharmacy near Covington. He didn't want to get caught. He shot three employees and a customer. Dead witnesses don't testify. Oops. One of the victims lived to testify.Kordenbrock forgot the surveillence camera tape. There were no firearms involved except the one used by Kordenbrock.

I know Kordenbrock personally. He was one of my convicts when I worked at KSP (Kentucky State Penitentiary). He often said that gun laws didn't keep him from getting a gun, but that he wished they had. It's a consensus among the convicts I supervised - anyone can get anything, regardless of law.

on edit: an armed employee or customer MAY have averted that
particular bloodbath. At least the odds of doing so would have increased.

[alwynsw]

43. We have laws on the books to do that - they don't work

and in a recent thread, we all saw how well the Brit ban works.

[-..__...]

37. Go Wisconsin!

Once the all "red" states cease living in the dark ages, the next battle
should focus on restoring full CCW rights to the citizens of the "may issue" states.

After that is accomplished, national reciprocity becomes more of a reality.

[MrBenchley]

52. Guess not enough out-of-state gun nuts called in...

"An Assembly showdown on a bill to legalize concealed weapons was postponed for a second time Wednesday - another sign that Republicans still lack enough votes to override Gov. Jim Doyle's veto of the controversial measure.
"If they had the votes, we'd be voting right now," said Assembly Democratic Leader Jim Kreuser of Kenosha.
Kreuser said the new five-day delay will give National Rifle Association members and other groups pushing the concealed weapons law more time to e-mail, phone and otherwise pressure the seven Democrats.
But Dan Leistikow, the governor's chief spokesman, said Gard's decision to cancel all of today's Assembly action "delays important work on venture capital legislation and a host of other matters."
Gard should "quit playing political games, hold a vote and get on with the people's business," Leistikow said."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/jan04/203378.asp

gun...must have gun......aaargh!

[alwynsw]

53. One of the more intelligent phrases I've seen from you

gun...must have gun......aaargh!

[MrBenchley]

54. The recipient's level of intelligence serves as the main factor

in determining how much of any message is comprehended.

[-..__...]

55. Quoting...

fortune cookies now? When will it end?